Official JTR speaker thread - Page 870 - AVS Forum
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post #26071 of 26087 Old Yesterday, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by countryWV View Post
Not yet. It does not look like anything made by BMS so I'm guessing Jeff has someone making him a custom version. The phase plug must be important to his design. It certainly is unique.

I guess I will have to buy a pair and find out.
Chris
I swear a few pages back it was stated the CD is the same but with some added changes.

Edit: just looked back and it seems the woofers are the same, not sure about the CD.
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Last edited by raynist; Yesterday at 04:44 PM.
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post #26072 of 26087 Old Yesterday, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
I swear a few pages back it was stated the CD is the same but with some added changes.
That cd in the back is the 212TT and in the front with phase plug sticking out is the newer coaxial. Its definitely not the same as 4593.





BMS 4593




Since Jeff tunes all speakers to his ear I would imagine they sound the same. The differences in FR will be related to the phase plug.

Last edited by countryWV; Yesterday at 04:52 PM.
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post #26073 of 26087 Old Yesterday, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by countryWV View Post
That cd in the back is the 212TT and in the front with phase plug sticking out is the newer coaxial. Its definitely not the same as 4593.





BMS 4593

Yeah, I edited my post as you were posting this. It is the woofer that is the same. Someone mentioned what the changes were - the phase plug was one change and there was one other change to the cd but I can't find what it was.
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post #26074 of 26087 Old Yesterday, 04:57 PM
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Additional shorting rings is the other difference.
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post #26075 of 26087 Old Yesterday, 04:58 PM
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Additional shorting rings is the other difference.
Thanks - now I remember
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post #26076 of 26087 Old Yesterday, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by countryWV View Post
Not yet. It does not look like anything made by BMS so I'm guessing Jeff has someone making him a custom version. The phase plug must be important to his design. It certainly is unique.

I guess I will have to buy a pair and find out.
Chris
From JTR on Facebook:
Quote:
Features a new phase plug for improved response and additional shorting rings for even lower distortion.
This implied to me that it was an evolution of or modification to the old driver.
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post #26077 of 26087 Old Yesterday, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by rangers View Post
Regarding the "2015 BIG changes" 212HT: Are the AVSholics expecting a 10% improvement or no real audible differences?

Also, for those of you who have heard the 212HT and 228HT is the top end about the same? I am thinking about getting
the 212s and don't want to lose that.
I have to say I'm slightly concerned that the 212HT might have a slightly different sound due to the wood horn. I definitely noticed a tonal difference between the 215s and 212HT with the 215 sounding more laid back and the 212 more forward. For some this might actually be an improvement as some have said things like glass breakage scenes that were a little biting with the 212 were better on the 215. I'm sure I could get used to either but I do prefer the 212 sound overall. And for me, it won't matter as I won't be getting rid of my 212s. For those that don't have a 212 to directly compare against, it likely won't matter one itty bitty bit as the 215 was a nice, smooth, detailed speaker on its own.
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post #26078 of 26087 Old Yesterday, 08:20 PM
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@dgage ,


Did you get a chance to try the Behringer graphic equalizer on your 212LP yet?

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post #26079 of 26087 Old Yesterday, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
I have to say I'm slightly concerned that the 212HT might have a slightly different sound due to the wood horn. I definitely noticed a tonal difference between the 215s and 212HT with the 215 sounding more laid back and the 212 more forward. For some this might actually be an improvement as some have said things like glass breakage scenes that were a little biting with the 212 were better on the 215. I'm sure I could get used to either but I do prefer the 212 sound overall. And for me, it won't matter as I won't be getting rid of my 212s. For those that don't have a 212 to directly compare against, it likely won't matter one itty bitty bit as the 215 was a nice, smooth, detailed speaker on its own.
Wouldn't the wooden horn have. 90x90 dispersion pattern also? I wonder how much of a difference that makes vs the 60/40?
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post #26080 of 26087 Old Yesterday, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
@dgage ,

Did you get a chance to try the Behringer graphic equalizer on your 212LP yet?
No, been too busy building subs. Are you waiting on me to try it? Didn't you recommend it to me? LOL!
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post #26081 of 26087 Old Yesterday, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
I have to say I'm slightly concerned that the 212HT might have a slightly different sound due to the wood horn. I definitely noticed a tonal difference between the 215s and 212HT with the 215 sounding more laid back and the 212 more forward. For some this might actually be an improvement as some have said things like glass breakage scenes that were a little biting with the 212 were better on the 215. I'm sure I could get used to either but I do prefer the 212 sound overall. And for me, it won't matter as I won't be getting rid of my 212s. For those that don't have a 212 to directly compare against, it likely won't matter one itty bitty bit as the 215 was a nice, smooth, detailed speaker on its own.
You know after we met up last week I have changed my views a little bit based on what I heard and what the measurements showed. I was all gung-ho on trying the 215rm or the cat 12s as my next speakers but I think my best bet at better sound is probably more room treatments. The 212s are so solid that switching to anything else might get me different sound but not necessarily better sound.

Btw, watched expendables 3 tonight with some friends and family. While it's not going to win any awards for acting the sound was actually pretty strong and it turned out to be a better flick than I thought it would be. Also enjoying the new AT screen.
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Last edited by Frohlich; Yesterday at 09:31 PM.
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post #26082 of 26087 Old Yesterday, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
Wouldn't the wooden horn have. 90x90 dispersion pattern also? I wonder how much of a difference that makes vs the 60/40?
I'm not sure what accounted for the difference in sound on the 212 vs 215.

Horn size/shape?
Horn dispersion pattern? I'm not so sure as even up close I heard the difference in tonal character/signature.
Horn texture - smooth aluminum vs textured coating?
Different crossover components?

I posted this as part of my summary after returning from Frohlich's house and it is an interesting item to note but I don't think any conclusions should be taken from the measurement. The following is a comparison of the 212HT to Frohlich's custom 228 center with wood horn and 212 compression driver. This measurement is at the listening position about 12 feet back directly from my computer to the RME FireFace UC to Parasound amp to speaker. The 228 center was a single speaker in line with the Earthworks M50 microphone. The 212 measurement is a summed left and right output, again, with the mic 12 feet or so back.

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post #26083 of 26087 Old Yesterday, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
You know after we met up last week I have changed my views a little bit based on what I heard and what the measurements showed. I was all gung-ho on trying the 215rm or the cat 12s as my next speakers but I think my best bet at better sound is probably more room treatments. The 212s are so solid that switching to anything else might get me different sound but not necessarily better sound.
Frohlich - I really think that is the right decision for you to have made. As is, I really like your SYSTEM, the nice room, great equipment, overall sound - it really is great. As I mentioned, some treatments on the front ceiling would likely make a nice impact. The only other thing I could think of is some DSP but as you said, that could potentially add some unnecessary complexity to the signal chain, which leaves me with the other suggestion of getting an Audyssey Pro license and having someone calibrate it using the Pro software since you use Audyssey. Other than that, leave it alone...you might actually do more harm than good, not to mention unnecessarily spending your kids college funds. LOL! (I don't envy that expense you have coming up, mine is a little further down the road. )
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post #26084 of 26087 Old Yesterday, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
You know after we met up last week I have changed my views a little bit based on what I heard and what the measurements showed. I was all gung-ho on trying the 215rm or the cat 12s as my next speakers but I think my best bet at better sound is probably more room treatments. The 212s are so solid that switching to anything else might get me different sound but not necessarily better sound.

Btw, watched expendables 3 tonight with some friends and family. While it's not going to win any awards for acting the sound was actually pretty strong and it turned out to be a better flick than I thought it would be. Also enjoying the new AT screen.
Good Choice Frolich...

I have the same itch to upgrade everytime Jeff comes up with something bigger and shinnier... but always have to look at the wallet first. The grass always seem greener at the other end and sometimes upgrades could be 'downgrades' in terms of personal satisfaction.

For me, the most difficult decision is whether to eventually upgrade to the 215RM or not. But I love my 212s so much I am afraid i'll be downgrading. Anyways, i'll wait and take in more reviews. From enough people's perspective, perhaps i can then make a slightly better decision. Also, my wallet needs a re-charge first.
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post #26085 of 26087 Old Today, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
You know after we met up last week I have changed my views a little bit based on what I heard and what the measurements showed. I was all gung-ho on trying the 215rm or the cat 12s as my next speakers but I think my best bet at better sound is probably more room treatments. The 212s are so solid that switching to anything else might get me different sound but not necessarily better sound.

Btw, watched expendables 3 tonight with some friends and family. While it's not going to win any awards for acting the sound was actually pretty strong and it turned out to be a better flick than I thought it would be. Also enjoying the new AT screen.
I'll agree as well, I think you're making the right decision here. Not sure how much better you'll get than what you have. I have the 215rm and I think it sounds great....very clear and effortless but I've never heard the 212's of Cat12's so I can't compare there but I am loving my front of 215's...what an upgrade. I'm currently running no subs and the 215's are putting out serious bass...however....I do think I'll still get subs. In addition to my 215 upgrade I added a lot more acoustic panels in my room and I think that help take my room to another sound level. Between bass traps, panels and diffusion I have over 50 items in my space.


I also agree with you on Expendables 3....it sounded great and I only watched it at -15. I also liked the Atmos demo at the beginning of the movie....I thought that sounded very good (even though I don't have Atmos) but I got a good sense of overhead sound running 4 height speakers.

Nabs17
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post #26086 of 26087 Old Today, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
No, been too busy building subs. Are you waiting on me to try it? Didn't you recommend it to me? LOL!
A doctor doesn't always try the medicine he prescribes, though he is curious if the medicine worked!
I'm not a doctor, so pretend gooddoc said this instead of me.

Give it a shot, I want to know how you like it. I really think it'll make a positive difference when you have your hands on physical sliders/knobs that easily make the sound the way you like it.

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post #26087 of 26087 Old Today, 08:47 AM
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