Official JTR speaker thread - Page 887 - AVS Forum
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post #26581 of 26603 Unread Yesterday, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by rhed View Post
As with any amps.. And I've done my own testing. For some reason if you have more then one amp on a shared circuit the clip lights comes on sooner then when they are on their own cuircut. Like 8 or more dbs headroom loss. Now, if you have all of them on their own cuircut. Especially 20 amp cuircut. You'll be amazed what your amp will do. I have all of my amps on their own. Including my avr and all 4 S2's. Try it.. Trust me.

I just recently put my amps on their own circuit and was shocked at what I was hearing! It didn't cross my mind that there would have been an audible difference, but there was. I didn't even need to measure to tell there was a difference but I did anyway. Also, my inuke amps were going into protection mode with the super low content such as the cop car smash in TIH and the opening scene in EOT. Now I get every bid of those scenes without any issues. Using a power filter is also a bad idea with amps as they really don't let a lot of juice get to your amp, but they will protect your breaker from tripping.
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post #26582 of 26603 Unread Yesterday, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
Hmmm interesting. This could explain why I was getting 6-7 db's more from the CV 5000 and inuke 6000 vs. the inuke 3000 when powering the 215's. I know I had the CV on it's own circuit because I always do, but I can't remember how I had the 6000 setup. I'll have to do some more experimenting.

I bet that is why the CV5000 was louder.

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post #26583 of 26603 Unread Yesterday, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post
I just recently put my amps on their own circuit and was shocked at what I was hearing! It didn't cross my mind that there would have been an audible difference, but there was. I didn't even need to measure to tell there was a difference but I did anyway. Also, my inuke amps were going into protection mode with the super low content such as the cop car smash in TIH and the opening scene in EOT. Now I get every bid of those scenes without any issues. Using a power filter is also a bad idea with amps as they really don't let a lot of juice get to your amp, but they will protect your breaker from tripping.
See guys! Pain got his amps also on their own also. Another example as to why others should do it too to get the full potential of our systems. Nice Pain..
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post #26584 of 26603 Unread Yesterday, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
I'm one thats had excellent results with any behringer product. Never had a failure of any kind on anything. I've had a few XLS's and the 2500's are no better built than the 6000's. They both work fine, just get the one you can get the better deal on I guess. Behringer just likes to get a bad rap from the pro world and I think even thats generally a crock to what they have on the market now vs when they got their "bad" name.

I've had my 215's on a clone, Crest 7.5 and my D-Sonic, IMO the D-Sonic is more than enough in my room for anything i could ever stand to listen to.
Ah! I remember asking you a question back then if there was any difference between a quality amp vs a low end amp like a Behringer. And remember you saying that you can't tell one difference.. Haha! Well then that explains it then. It probably wouldn't to you since you ran them on dedicated circuit each time. Ha! Another example why we should run amps on their own.
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post #26585 of 26603 Unread Yesterday, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
Haha that's awesome Nate, your theater room has more high amperage circuits then more houses.....lol

We run double circuits on every breaker! We only have a 150 service and the double 20A breakers are 150$ each and the double 30A was 220$ LOL We looked into getting a 250 amp service but it wasn't worth the cost.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #26586 of 26603 Unread Today, 01:35 AM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
When the transients get clipped, it generally sounds fine...not what you think of from an overloaded amp or speaker.

Whether we're talking about 212s or 215s, it will probably sound fine.

Just not quite as good as it could sound if it could reproduce those transients without clipping.

Incidentally, aside from big amps and high efficiency speakers, reducing ambient noise is another effective way to increase dynamic range. Adding sound treatment and using speakers with horns help with this.

Better yet, all of the above.
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Originally Posted by rhed View Post
I ran 3 215's on my Pioneer SC-09tx for 2 months without any problems. As it was 4 ohm capable.I think the reason for me for added amps was to run the LF range hotter through dsp in the Inuke. Other then that, the 215's run perfectly fine on a avr.
Thanks guys... that's all i need to hear... i am sort of the 'receiver' type of guy... and this means the 215 RMs might be in the horizon when i am thinking of upgrading...

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Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post
I know most of us have seen how sensitive jayterz are and can run up to reference with just 1 watt of power (see @Archaea youtube)...but I was wondering what is the minimum power needed to run either the 212HT or 228HT to hear their full range of capability at any reasonable volume all the way up to reference? This stems from our past convos about midbass...If we are running with an avr, there is plenty of power for the highs, but is there really enough for the midbass? After all, lower the frequency, logically more power is needed. Has anyone measured midbass performance between say an average 50-100w from an avr to several hundred...200w to 1000w per channel from an amp? Of course, running speakers as Large to test. And I'm not making this about amp vs avr, just if extra power is what that's required to push midbass performance to what it 'should' be for the 212HT/228HT? Or are the midbass frequencies covered by the amount of power our avr's providing?
I brought this issue up once and Archaee then went and demoed the 212s with just 1 watt of power.. seems like tons of mid bass as well... he basically set his crown to limit the amp power to 1 watt... it almost went to reference...
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post #26587 of 26603 Unread Today, 06:02 AM
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Anyone tried QSC DCA amps on these JTR? I notice that the input sensitivity of QSC is lower than Crown's. Perhaps more consumer gear friendly?
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post #26588 of 26603 Unread Today, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post
Anyone tried QSC DCA amps on these JTR? I notice that the input sensitivity of QSC is lower than Crown's. Perhaps more consumer gear friendly?

There is a nice used one in the classifieds right now.

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post #26589 of 26603 Unread Today, 07:28 AM
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Hey @desertdome , did you receive your Volt 6's yet?

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post #26590 of 26603 Unread Today, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
I can't bottom them with the inuke 3000, what you said ^ reminds me of how I couldn't bottom the ported caps with the ep4000 but as soon as we hooked the Caps up to a Crown 5000 they could be bottomed.
I bottomed out the 215RT with the 12000 on WOTW and LS. So I had to put a HPF starting from 25 hz with a 12 db slope. I never tried to see if the 6000 could. Though since that is powering the 215RM cc. And since its a sealed speaker, I don't have any HPF on it. And I didn't have any problems leaving it like that either.
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post #26591 of 26603 Unread Today, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by uopdrmark View Post
When are your midbass modules gonna be ready? I'm pretty interested to see how this combo compares to the 215's
Ha. Well I'll pick the JBL drivers up from Beast sometime in January and it will sit behind other projects so maybe Feb/Mar.

But simply, it won't compare to a full range 215. I'd use a ported enclosure for the JBL tuned to about 40/50 Hz and cross around 50/60. A pair sims to output 125+db above 50/60 with 400w but you'll obviously need some beefy subwooferage to keep up with the mains and midbasses. Since I'll have a pair of 24s and a pair of 18s, I've got that covered. So really a completely different focus but since I can't fit any refrigerators in my living room, it is exactly what I want and need. Obviously some really like a full range speaker and maybe if I had room I'd change my mind but i expect I'll be happy with the results once I get them dialed in.

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post #26592 of 26603 Unread Today, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by rhed View Post
I bottomed out the 215RT with the 12000 on WOTW and LS. So I had to put a HPF starting from 25 hz with a 12 db slope. I never tried to see if the 6000 could. Though since that is powering the 215RM cc. And since its a sealed speaker, I don't have any HPF on it. And I didn't have any problems leaving it like that either.
Can the 12000 make the 215's make any bad sounds with the HPF in place if you push the 12000 all the way to just before clipping?
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post #26593 of 26603 Unread Today, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
Can the 12000 make the 215's make any bad sounds with the HPF in place if you push the 12000 all the way to just before clipping?
I don't know what bad sounds your talking about. But when I pushed them with out the HPF during those intense low frequency scene. I could here some kind of harsh vibration when those low notes are producing. I figured I was at the limits of the woofers. So when I added the HPF then all is good. Also with the HPF, I've pushed them right before clipping with a 3 db boost from 110 hz down. No noise, but wow, that's friggin loud. I already was at -2 just about the first clip light on the output start to light up on the pod imerge scene. With music, well I can pushed them to +8 without hurting my ears. Though music dependent. But, damn, these speakers can really be pushed yet so clean. Friggin amazing! Btw, on the input.. It seems I have it around 1-2 lights less then the output just by monitoring it through the Inuke DSP interface through the LT.
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post #26594 of 26603 Unread Today, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by rhed View Post
I don't know what bad sounds your talking about. But when I pushed them with out the HPF during those intense low frequency scene. I could here some kind of harsh vibration when those low notes are producing. I figured I was at the limits of the woofers. So when I added the HPF then all is good. Also with the HPF, I've pushed them right before clipping with a 3 db boost from 110 hz down. No noise, but wow, that's friggin loud. I already was at -2 just about the first clip light on the output start to light up on the pod imerge scene. With music, well I can pushed them to +8 without hurting my ears. Though music dependent. But, damn, these speakers can really be pushed yet so clean. Friggin amazing! Btw, on the input.. It seems I have it around 1-2 lights less then the output just by monitoring it through the Inuke DSP interface through the LT.
I see, so it sounds like the 215's can take more than the 12000 can dish out as long as the HPF is in place, which it should be with a ported sub.... errr... I mean speaker.
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post #26595 of 26603 Unread Today, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by rhed View Post
I don't know what bad sounds your talking about. But when I pushed them with out the HPF during those intense low frequency scene. I could here some kind of harsh vibration when those low notes are producing. I figured I was at the limits of the woofers. So when I added the HPF then all is good. Also with the HPF, I've pushed them right before clipping with a 3 db boost from 110 hz down. No noise, but wow, that's friggin loud. I already was at -2 just about the first clip light on the output start to light up on the pod imerge scene. With music, well I can pushed them to +8 without hurting my ears. Though music dependent. But, damn, these speakers can really be pushed yet so clean. Friggin amazing! Btw, on the input.. It seems I have it around 1-2 lights less then the output just by monitoring it through the Inuke DSP interface through the LT.
I have a 200hz HP filter ( Linkwitz–Riley 24db/ocaive) and a 20hz LP Linkwitz–Riley 24db/octave on the LFE channels. I have not found the bottom yet but then, I'm really not looking for that benchmark. There is also a 6db boost at 20hz.

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Inukes, Crown XLS, all is simply budget quality.
The DSP inside the Inukes is SO budget, compare its processing quality / sound to a Xilica / XTA or whatever and you will be amazed.

XTI on mid / high sounds just horrible in my opinion. I have seen a test it puts out substantially more power on low frequencies THAN on high frequencies !

I once compared a standard DBX Driverack PA to a standard Xilica, the Xilica on Bass sounded way better.
So yes, processing influences quality dramatically.

It would not even cross my mind to wire up my subs / speakers to a Behringer Inuke or whatever.
I use 3 step Class H, highest voltage on the rail is 180v, for LFE.

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post #26597 of 26603 Unread Today, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
Ha. Well I'll pick the JBL drivers up from Beast sometime in January and it will sit behind other projects so maybe Feb/Mar.

But simply, it won't compare to a full range 215. I'd use a ported enclosure for the JBL tuned to about 40/50 Hz and cross around 50/60. A pair sims to output 125+db above 50/60 with 400w but you'll obviously need some beefy subwooferage to keep up with the mains and midbasses. Since I'll have a pair of 24s and a pair of 18s, I've got that covered. So really a completely different focus but since I can't fit any refrigerators in my living room, it is exactly what I want and need. Obviously some really like a full range speaker and maybe if I had room I'd change my mind but i expect I'll be happy with the results once I get them dialed in.
Are you saying they won't keep up with the 215's under 50/60 or something else? Obviously the 215's reach much lower but as long as you've got capable subs, which it sounds like you do shouldn't it be pretty similar?

I ordered a couple ae td-18's to add to the party as well. I've got 4 UXL-18's in sealed boxes so far and planning on 4 more just for fun. I'm thinking by adding the td-18's in with a mini dsp as an active crossover it should deliver pretty close to full range. I'm really curious how it will all work out because I really don't have the room for the refrigerators either (as much as I'd really like to though!)

FS: Three JTR 212HT's (ported version). http://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-au...r-212ht-s.html
FS: JTR S2. Sold
FS: NHT ClassicTwo LCR http://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-au...-twoc-lcr.html
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post #26598 of 26603 Unread Today, 01:46 PM
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Does anyone here know if the mini dsp can mix in the LFE into the mains channel? I'm wondering if the td-18 could do both the full range for the LCR and add some LFE in like RMK does. Or is it not worth it with a gang of UXL's already covering the LFE?

FS: Three JTR 212HT's (ported version). http://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-au...r-212ht-s.html
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FS: NHT ClassicTwo LCR http://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-au...-twoc-lcr.html
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post #26599 of 26603 Unread Today, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by uopdrmark View Post
Does anyone here know if the mini dsp can mix in the LFE into the mains channel? I'm wondering if the td-18 could do both the full range for the LCR and add some LFE in like RMK does. Or is it not worth it with a gang of UXL's already covering the LFE?
Yes it can.

http://www.minidsp.com/applications/...ass-management
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post #26600 of 26603 Unread Today, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by uopdrmark View Post
Are you saying they won't keep up with the 215's under 50/60 or something else? Obviously the 215's reach much lower but as long as you've got capable subs, which it sounds like you do shouldn't it be pretty similar?

I ordered a couple ae td-18's to add to the party as well. I've got 4 UXL-18's in sealed boxes so far and planning on 4 more just for fun. I'm thinking by adding the td-18's in with a mini dsp as an active crossover it should deliver pretty close to full range. I'm really curious how it will all work out because I really don't have the room for the refrigerators either (as much as I'd really like to though!)
We're on the same page but I consider this apples and oranges. One is a straight forward full range while my system will be a 3-way with mains(3-way there too), midbasses, and subs. Since I can't fit the 215RTs or even RMs, they aren't really an option, plus I like the upper end sound of my 212s better. Regarding output, my SYSTEM will have much greater output than the 215s but that really is like having a Lamborghini and never going above 80mph...the 215s would have more output than I would need so having more than that is just stupid...so I guess that means I'm stupid.

I think your system will be awesome and won't deliver close to full range, it will destroy it.
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I really want to put my subs all on there own circuit to see if I have any power advantage. Problem is right now that the only way to get the humming to go is to have them all plugged into the same power strip

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post #26602 of 26603 Unread Today, 06:31 PM
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I really want to put my subs all on there own circuit to see if I have any power advantage. Problem is right now that the only way to get the humming to go is to have them all plugged into the same power strip
I don't like using power strips or conditioners for my subs. Straight plug..
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post #26603 of 26603 Unread Today, 06:31 PM
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You are definitely choking your amps out with all of them on a single power strip. There are ways to get rid of ground loop issues.

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