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newc33's Avatar newc33
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
Ground the iNuke chassis to the avr chassis. Problem solved.
Thanks I'll try it tomorrow!
DotJun's Avatar DotJun
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
Yep. I was recently schooled in this phenomenon yet again. A friend and avs member were at my place last week messing with my system and we decided to compare FLAC to 320. I swore the difference was obvious. So much smoother and detailed with FLAC than 320. Back and forth over and over again with the same sections of songs the difference was so clear.



He thought so too.



Then we tried it blind.



We couldn't tell the difference.

I'm curious, did you guys compare noise floor between the two (noise floor is raise on compressed files)? I know you don't listen to much orchestra music so I doubt you did that comparison [emoji2]

I know that my busted up old ears can't tell a difference between them anymore.
carp's Avatar carp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post
I'm curious, did you guys compare noise floor between the two (noise floor is raise on compressed files)? I know you don't listen to much orchestra music so I doubt you did that comparison [emoji2]

I know that my busted up old ears can't tell a difference between them anymore.
No, and ha, you are right not too much orchestra music in here - although I will listen to some classical from time to time.
rhed's Avatar rhed
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
dejavu...
Official JTR speaker thread



By the way. Notnyt measured the $20 Lepai 2020 t-amp we used in our blind test just a couple days back and said its a surprisingly decent little amp on the test bench with a flat fr and no trickery. It isn't a powerhouse, but kept within its means it measures and performs quite well. It's nice to see our experiences validated since we were surprised to discover the little t-amp measured and sounded identical to much more expensive Emotiva amps etc (amps as expensive as ~$1k) in blind testing using the instant switching capability.

I've heard people subjectively say the t-amps are easy to identify because they sound different and obviously don't have a flat frequency response, which they can just tell by listening. Well...... ours was flat, as measured separately by me, MrSmithers, and now by notnyt.

What that boils down to is no one wants to think a $20 amp could possibly sound as good as their amp that costs several hundred or more. So that attitude manifests itself, and you hear what you see and expect. The truth is you can't tell the difference if the amp is kept within its means, and 10 watts on something as efficient as the JTR or Klipsch that we tested with goes a long way (to uncomfortable volumes). Blind testing FTW.
Yea.. And I bet a blind test with some of the lower cost cheaply made amps vs the higher cost quality made amps. With close to rated watts between them. No one could tell a difference. Haha.. j/k! Kinda! Just trying to stir things up. Really though... Wait, you guys got all the resources up there.. Enough with the speaker/sub gtg. Someone should make a blind test amp on highly efficient speakers and/or sub gtg. And set all the B/S aside.. Hehe.. Btw, nice post Archaea..
subbass's Avatar subbass
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Quote:
dejavu...
Official JTR speaker thread
Indeed a Dejavu.
Put some decent PA cabinets outside,wire them them up to a Behringer Inuke + Inuke DSP.
Then listen to a decent processor like XTA, Xilica or whatever.
If you do not hear the difference well then
coolgeek's Avatar coolgeek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
dejavu...
Official JTR speaker thread



By the way. Notnyt measured the $20 Lepai 2020 t-amp we used in our blind test just a couple days back and said its a surprisingly decent little amp on the test bench with a flat fr and no trickery. It isn't a powerhouse, but kept within its means it measures and performs quite well. It's nice to see our experiences validated since we were surprised to discover the little t-amp measured and sounded identical to much more expensive Emotiva amps etc (amps as expensive as ~$1k) in blind testing using the instant switching capability.

I've heard people subjectively say the t-amps are easy to identify because they sound different and obviously don't have a flat frequency response, which they can just tell by listening. Well...... ours was flat, as measured separately by me, MrSmithers, and now by notnyt.

What that boils down to is no one wants to think a $20 amp could possibly sound as good as their amp that costs several hundred or more. So that attitude manifests itself, and you hear what you see and expect. The truth is you can't tell the difference if the amp is kept within its means, and 10 watts on something as efficient as the JTR or Klipsch that we tested with goes a long way (to uncomfortable volumes). Blind testing FTW.

I just talked to an engineer who builds Tube Amps.. and he says something that completely went over my head so i juts nodded as I am no engineer... ok, if i got him correctly, he's saying that the 'amplitude' or 'dynamic range' or 'voltage' or 'whatever engineer terms', on the tubes cannot be efficiently replicated by the modern amps... basically, he's saying there's distortion no matter what because in order to replicate what the tube can do, an A or AB class amp for instance need a very, very large coil or something that isn't in your typical receiver or amplifier... it's a physical thing... or something.. anyways, if anyone knows what he's talking about please clarify...
Archaea's Avatar Archaea
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@rhed
We did. At least definitively tried.

Audyssey defeated our original test, when it turned itself on after a power cycle, unknown to the setup person.

We repeated the test the next day on a smaller scale and came to realize with several amps tested, including a t-amp that in fast blind switching no one could tell the difference. Even in full range use. (Double checked -voltage matched with a multimeter and spl level matched with omnimics spl meter)

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-area-home-theater-meets/1472180-do-amps-matter-kansas-city-blind-amp-comparison-gtg-7.html

East coast guys were going to perform the test too to confirm results, but lost interest when they (typical hosts) came to the same conclusion in their own experimentation.

Looses appeal to listen to the exact same thing over and over with no discenable difference between entries.

I'd like to repeat the test on a large scale again some time to confirm the results with a lot of people to put the issue to bed. But its a lot of setup work and the fast switching mechanism can fry an amp with user error. Which happened twice at the g2g (not at my command either time - but it smoked my little t-amp, which was the only permanent casualty.)



@subbass
Not sure what outside matters as compared to inside. Unless you are saying play it louder at which point no one would disagree that the t-amp will run out of steam first followed by the next least powerful amp and so on and you can tell an amp appart if one is clipping and another isn't, but our test intention was meant to keep the amps within their means and not test output, but sound quality.
subbass's Avatar subbass
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Well I am not talking about low volumes.
But when I see the stuff you guys park @ home I doubt you guys just park it there for listening at low volumes.

For example while pushing an XTI amp hard on mid/high it will just start to sound harsh.
I compared it to the Amptec amps I was selling back then and the A2.0 did not sounded harsh. Both amps were measured and both were near / on clipping level. Cause just staring on the clipping indicator does not make much sense. For example when the clipping indicator on my amps become active it still has like 3db left !

Amps do have a different clipping behaviour, have different parts inside, different phase shiftng etc and not each amp produces the same % of THD.
Not all amps recover as quick as others do.

And yes an XTA / Xilica sounds so much better than the Behringer Inuke, you just cannot ignore that.
But also not quite comparable, by far, if it comes up to $$

Just found the XTI measurement / test again.
Just have a look at it, power output drastically drops on high frequencies.
http://www.abeltronics.co.uk/amptest...crown_XTI-4000
DotJun's Avatar DotJun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
No, and ha, you are right not too much orchestra music in here - although I will listen to some classical from time to time.

You might find this interesting @carp
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