Official JTR speaker thread - Page 891 - AVS Forum
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post #26701 of 26718 Old Yesterday, 07:43 AM
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I see Archaea's "snake in the grass challenge" now has a mascot!!!


Thanks for posting those pictures Coolgeek I just checked Malaysia off my places I may retire list.
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post #26702 of 26718 Old Yesterday, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Archaea
Compared Onkyo to Emotiva. Seem very similar - so my top end rolloff must be somewhere in my signal chain - I do not have Audyssey or other EQ engaged. Oh well -
Can't say for sure, but that top end rolloff looks like you used a 0 degree mic calibration file at 90 degrees.
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post #26703 of 26718 Old Yesterday, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post
However, my own feeling is that if there are 'real' differences, a quick blind test such as these won't be able to yield any good results because apart from 'Blind Bias' which I personally think won't add to much, I think there's another variable.. our own hearing sensitivity.. or, conscious hearing sensitivity and our brain's ability to 'fix' whatever we're hearing as they come in.. for example, when hearing Amp A, the brain is used to that sound.. and then when you switch to Amp B, even if there are minute differences, the brain may try to match it to Amp A, and therefore consciously we can't tell the difference.. this is same with very little distortion..

That's just the thing though; The amps, operating withing their own constraints, should be neutral. No Coloring of the FR or sound in any way. Jon kinda proved this. There ARE amps out there that have options to color the sound. Take tube amps that pretty much anyone will say add a little "color." A while back, Carver wanted to recreate this "coloration" in one of his SS amps so he put a switch on his TG amps that tossed a 5 ohm resistor into the class A circuitry to hopefully appease the Tube lovin' crowd. It was quite an interesting concept, but if you look further into the capabilities and things that Carver did with amps, you will quickly see why he was one of the pioneers of modern amplification. Take this "Challenge" he accepted (not excepted..man that bugs me) where he basically mimicked the "Sound" of an amp that is 50x the cost of what he managed to rig up. While not a direct comparison to exactly what we are talking about here, it does shine the light that not all amps are "Neutral" and there are camps on either side of whether or not this is a good thing or not, but I digress. This is a great read:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/carver-challenge


I still hold on to the fact that only through prolonged listening exposure to any speaker systems will eventually let you to 'prefer' one system over another.. and yet you won't be able to tell a difference between the two system if you had to do it quickly in a blind or even sighted test... there are a lot of information that gets registered 'subconsciously' that aren't quickly discernable but will make themselves noticed over time...

The contrary. I have listened to dozens of speakers over a single day, 4 top-notch designs blind in a single day, and real-time switched between my Sh50's and dgage's 212lp's. IN all three instances there were very distinct differences between each speaker. Now preference? That was most certainly immediate. Do you find small nuances that you eventually don't like in a speaker over time? Well yes of course, just ask @gooddoc about that Bottom line is though, differences in speakers are most noticed when fast-switching can be done. Blind or not, you can hear distinct differences that are inherent of the designer and the design itself. Real time fast switching definitely shines some serious light on what you might like and not like about a speaker, but the more in-depth time-consuming listening sessions are really when you can start not just deciding which sound you like better out of a speaker, but WHY you like that sound better.

There is yet another variable that we're not considering and i think is more significant than 'blind bias'.. which is each person's hearing acuity... there are people here who loves to blast their music out loud for so long, i believe that the only difference they can hear is 'how dynamic' and 'how loud' a speaker plays.. and not all the nuances... I gave an example of my brother who can't tell the difference between the 212s, and his $300 speakers... because both can play 'loud' and both have that 'bang effect'... that's all that makes him happy... This is of course a very tricky subject because no one wants to hear their 'hearing' is not 100%... the fact is, all our hearing isn't 100%.. and i can tell you this one thing.. everytime i play certain DTS concert tracks, young people will scream for me to turn it down because it was cutting.. but older folks don't hear anything wrong...

Exactly, no one is going to hear the exact same things out of the same soundtrack. I can take a lot of volume but I tap out a bit before others do at times, while I have had demos of my room that have ranged from the most aggressive demoee wanting +15dB Ref levels to the most conservative that doesn't want to go much over -15dB ref. That is a 30DB SWING!!! Huge difference and needless to say, the suggestions I gave to each on how they should go about the design of their room and speaker selections was completely different when asked for my advice.

However, of course if the difference is big enough, anyone can tell a difference quickly.. for example, i think my marantz amp's processing is way different from the new onkyo i have and if i switch between them, ANYONE can tell marked difference... I also think most of any difference in Amps, if any, are from processing.. not from the AMP part of it...

This was certainly confirmed by archaea at his AVR test g2g. the differences between each of the processors was honestly embarrasing and exactly why NO ONE should assume we are all listening at the exact same "reference"

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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
Coolgeek,

That cobra snake skin (with a few of his friends) might make a cool veneer for your JTR speakers.
ALL OF HIS FRIENDS. If I didn't pass out on the spot, once animal control got that dang thing I would make them execute it while I watched. Burn it, smash it, slice it, dice it.
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post #26704 of 26718 Old Yesterday, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post
That is crazy... considering I live in the center of the city... walking distance to the largest mall in KL...

Before this we found an Ant-Eater in the house... it's an endangered animal.. how in the world did it get into the city??? by train??

Maybe the vibrations from my Orbit Shifter woke him up from his underground slumber...
When you first posted Cobra in the house I was thinking original Shelby.

With all those critters about, I wouldn't want vented speakers/subs if you get my drift.
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post #26705 of 26718 Old Yesterday, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post
On a completely separate note..

There's a Cobra in the house.. he's hiding in the Store room.. I went near it, He Hissed at me, I ran away... if you have never heard a cobra hiss, it's really loud and scary...

Anyways, called Animal Control.. they are on another snake case.. not sure how long it'll take them to get here...
Brings back memories! I used to live in Miri (Malaysia), but we were right on the border of the jungle. Every day was a National Geographic day for this ~6-7 year old!
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post #26706 of 26718 Old Yesterday, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Quill View Post
So I got my (new version) 212HTs, dual OS's and S8s....and basically I started my email to Jeff with "Wow. Just....wow."
Hi Quill,
do you have some pics of these new wood horn 212HTs?

Thanks!
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post #26707 of 26718 Old Yesterday, 01:06 PM
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Coolgeek....I still can't get over a Cobra in the house. I was telling my boys about it and we all agree you need to get a Mongoose.

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post #26708 of 26718 Old Yesterday, 03:03 PM
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Coolgeek, my son said you must have been on Santa's naughty list!. Seriously crazy stuff!

FS: Three JTR 212HT's (ported version). http://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-au...r-212ht-s.html
FS: JTR S2. Sold
FS: NHT ClassicTwo LCR http://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-au...-twoc-lcr.html
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post #26709 of 26718 Old Yesterday, 05:17 PM
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CoolGeek - I haven't decided how this might affect a future family vacation to Malaysia and Thailand. Hopefully I'll forget about the cobra in your house story by the time I come visit.
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post #26710 of 26718 Old Yesterday, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
When you first posted Cobra in the house I was thinking original Shelby.

With all those critters about, I wouldn't want vented speakers/subs if you get my drift.
At high SPL you could shoot poisonous animals right at the sweet spot.
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post #26711 of 26718 Old Yesterday, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by raczkri View Post
Hi Quill,
do you have some pics of these new wood horn 212HTs?

Thanks!
I know Jeff posted a few pictures on his forum at jtr speakers.

http://jtrspeakers.websitetoolbox.co...hanges-7176801
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Last edited by 7channelfreak; Yesterday at 08:34 PM.
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post #26712 of 26718 Old Yesterday, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by 7channelfreak View Post
I know Jeff posted a few pictures on his forum at jtr speakers.

http://jtrspeakers.websitetoolbox.co...hanges-7176801

I don't think I've really seen this mentioned or not but I would assume another advantage for Jeff switching to the wooden waveguide would be a slight cost reduction for him. I'm sure its not cheap to have the cabinets made with the wooden waveguides in them but I'm wondering if it's a little cheaper then the 18sound XT1496 waveguides. I think those waveguides retail for well over a $100ea.
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post #26713 of 26718 Old Yesterday, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
I don't think I've really seen this mentioned or not but I would assume another advantage for Jeff switching to the wooden waveguide would be a slight cost reduction for him. I'm sure its not cheap to have the cabinets made with the wooden waveguides in them but I'm wondering if it's a little cheaper then the 18sound XT1496 waveguides. I think those waveguides retail for well over a $100ea.
Yea.. Those 212's with the wooden horn looks sweet. Your right though, I would think it'll cost more for Jeff to fab the horn into the cabs. But anyway, seems quil is having a great time with his new setup. And I assume he must have the new version of the 212HT's.
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post #26714 of 26718 Old Yesterday, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by rhed View Post
Yea.. Those 212's with the wooden horn looks sweet. Your right though, I would think it'll cost more for Jeff to fab the horn into the cabs. But anyway, seems quil is having a great time with his new setup. And I assume he must have the new version of the 212HT's.

Yeah I love the look of the new wooden waveguides in the 2015 models!!
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post #26715 of 26718 Old Yesterday, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
I didn't want to spoil the surprise but Jeff is running a Christmas special, buy any 3 or more JTR products and get a free Cobra?????
The cobra will be placed inside the Orbit Shifter....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
Coolgeek,

That cobra snake skin (with a few of his friends) might make a cool veneer for your JTR speakers.
Cool for me, not so cool for the Cobra... heh!

He's a beauty though.. i hope they release him somewhere deep in the jungle... Cobra's are becoming extinct.. and they are endangered... I remember growing up in a farm that's next to the world's oldest tropical forest (that's in Malaysia), and there were hundreds and hundreds of cobras around.. you find them in the toilet sometimes, (you really need to look when you walk), in the chicken coop (be careful when collecting eggs), and in the tall grass, etc.. i have once came within an inch of a cobra in the grass...

It's a miracle we grew up without ever being bitten (goes to show that cobras don't really want to bite anyone if they are not disturbed, like being stepped on).. though a few of my dogs have died from cobra bites... (probably because they fight cobras all the time)....

BTW: You can find a lot of snake skin 'stuff' in thailand... like belts, shoes, wallets, etc.

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Originally Posted by Nabs17 View Post
coolgeek...that is truly amazing. I'm freaking out if there is a spider or palmetto bug in my house (especially palmetto bugs)...I can't even imagine what I would do if that were in my house. Wow!!!!


The next time it happens you could always hide in your OS until animal control arrives.
Only problem with that is the OS might be the favorite hiding place for snakes.. hehe...

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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
When you first posted Cobra in the house I was thinking original Shelby.

With all those critters about, I wouldn't want vented speakers/subs if you get my drift.
Exactly right... dark holes... i might have to check my OS everytime now...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Quill View Post
Brings back memories! I used to live in Miri (Malaysia), but we were right on the border of the jungle. Every day was a National Geographic day for this ~6-7 year old!
Still lots of jungles in Malaysia... I remember encountering so many different type of animals... in fact, 40 odd years ago, when there were jungles all around my old house, there were even tiger tracks... there were all kinds of snakes (vipers, cobras, you name it, even a king cobra that's over 15 feet long),... but as time goes by, most of the animals started disappearing... i have seen lots of bees totally disappearing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabs17 View Post
Coolgeek....I still can't get over a Cobra in the house. I was telling my boys about it and we all agree you need to get a Mongoose.
Not sure where to find a mongoose... we used to have geese.. and they will chase and eat snakes... and they also chase us little boys... hahaha....

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Originally Posted by uopdrmark View Post
Coolgeek, my son said you must have been on Santa's naughty list!. Seriously crazy stuff!
Actually, according to chinese lore, a snake visit is lucky...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
CoolGeek - I haven't decided how this might affect a future family vacation to Malaysia and Thailand. Hopefully I'll forget about the cobra in your house story by the time I come visit.
Adrenaline rush my friend.. that's the best vacation you'll have...
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post #26716 of 26718 Old Yesterday, 11:01 PM
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Oh... Merry Christmas everyone...


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post #26717 of 26718 Old Yesterday, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
The contrary. I have listened to dozens of speakers over a single day, 4 top-notch designs blind in a single day, and real-time switched between my Sh50's and dgage's 212lp's. IN all three instances there were very distinct differences between each speaker. Now preference? That was most certainly immediate. Do you find small nuances that you eventually don't like in a speaker over time? Well yes of course, just ask @gooddoc about that Bottom line is though, differences in speakers are most noticed when fast-switching can be done. Blind or not, you can hear distinct differences that are inherent of the designer and the design itself. Real time fast switching definitely shines some serious light on what you might like and not like about a speaker, but the more in-depth time-consuming listening sessions are really when you can start not just deciding which sound you like better out of a speaker, but WHY you like that sound better.
You're right of course...

I can tell if i like a speaker or prefer one over another almost immediately... In fact, now that I know what 'good dynamics' and 'neutral' sounds like, i can almost immediately tell if a speaker don't have those things... and 95% don't...

What I was actually saying is, if there aren't a lot of differences and one can't tell one over another (perhaps I wasn't very clear at all), then a prolonged listening can bring out certain things that aren't immediately noticeable... I am only saying it because I think some blind test to determine if 'one system, be it amps, speakers, or a combination' and even if such a test came out negative, it does not mean there aren't any differences.. just that our own 'hearing' and 'concsious hearing' of such systems aren't very accurate.. and it may take time to 'know'...
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post #26718 of 26718 Old Today, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
I don't think I've really seen this mentioned or not but I would assume another advantage for Jeff switching to the wooden waveguide would be a slight cost reduction for him. I'm sure its not cheap to have the cabinets made with the wooden waveguides in them but I'm wondering if it's a little cheaper then the 18sound XT1496 waveguides. I think those waveguides retail for well over a $100ea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhed View Post
Yea.. Those 212's with the wooden horn looks sweet. Your right though, I would think it'll cost more for Jeff to fab the horn into the cabs. But anyway, seems quil is having a great time with his new setup. And I assume he must have the new version of the 212HT's.
I'm wondering if it's cause Jeff wants better off-axis performance. That's the only thing he gets beat up on here by the designers that frequent this board. I personally had no complaints about any aspect of the performance in my room.
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