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post #26761 of 26778 Old Yesterday, 07:41 PM
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Looks like you will be busy!
If all the planets align you can see the new stuff on Tuesday!!
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post #26762 of 26778 Old Yesterday, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post
No man, you cannot see the weave from your seat at all.

Save your money! Skip Falcon, Seymour, etc. The difference is so little, you would never know what you're watching unless I told you the brand. Even a 15% increase in claimed brightness is realistically very minor...the number 15 sounds bigger than the practical application...if anything, for me black levels are more important, and black backing is helping with contrast on the Elite 1080P2...this is a shot taken within one foot comparing the XD with the P2...if I was going to nit pick, the black color seems to 'suffer' as a result on the XD since it's a little brighter...black gets creeps into dark gray:


Practically speaking, here's what it looks from my seat 16' away...can you see the xd sample and is the difference worth over triple the price:


Ignore the image not filling the screen...I still have to move the pj back a bit.

And another...hint...xd sample is still in the same spot close to the tripod:


You cannot see the weave until you're within 3-4 feet and I have to try to focus-squint to see it. And that's only with a solid bright color and you're standing within a few feet watching a blue sky...which is not practical day to day. Normal viewing is what really counts, so from 8' or more feet...you're just immersed in the image. The XD has a tighter weave, but the benefit is minor to me...especially in normal dark ht environments.

As far as different sizes, click on this link and theres a drop down to select various sizing: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00B2G...=AC_SX200_QL40

I went with the biggest size possible in my room because it's more immersive. It's awesome. Your eyes never take in an entire image even with smaller screens down to tvs...you're always focused on one subject or object at a time on spanning a few square inches or feet...and we see with a peripheral view anyway, so this feels even more realistic with more to fill my peripheral sides.

Let me know if you want any specific pics.
Asim,

Awesome photo comparison... I have personally compared the XD vs EN4K vs Falcon vs ScreenResearch Clearpix 2 and Clearpix 4K... the best by far is the Screen Research Clearpix 4K.. the colors were extremely accurate (comparing to Black Diamond which the projector was calibrated to)... and it was really white... The other brands have some 'yellow tinge' to it, sort of like looking through a yellow filter... I suppose it can be calibrated away. And the Clearpix had the smallest weave I have seen. However, the price is several times higher than the XD so it's out of the question.

As for the XD vs the rest, I actually liked the 'pop' factor of it... it's hard to tell when you have a small sample and in some scenes it'll look identical, but when you have bright and dark scenes, the pop really shows because the bright will be so much brighter than the dark. And this will also come in useful when watching 3D.
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post #26763 of 26778 Old Yesterday, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post
Asim,

Awesome photo comparison... I have personally compared the XD vs EN4K vs Falcon vs ScreenResearch Clearpix 2 and Clearpix 4K... the best by far is the Screen Research Clearpix 4K.. the colors were extremely accurate (comparing to Black Diamond which the projector was calibrated to)... and it was really white... The other brands have some 'yellow tinge' to it, sort of like looking through a yellow filter... I suppose it can be calibrated away. And the Clearpix had the smallest weave I have seen. However, the price is several times higher than the XD so it's out of the question.

As for the XD vs the rest, I actually liked the 'pop' factor of it... it's hard to tell when you have a small sample and in some scenes it'll look identical, but when you have bright and dark scenes, the pop really shows because the bright will be so much brighter than the dark. And this will also come in useful when watching 3D.
The pop and clarity is what I'm worried about. I really think my painted wall screen is something special but I hope to be proven wrong as I attempt to go AT. Text is so razor sharp, I haven't seen that in other rooms.
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post #26764 of 26778 Old Yesterday, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
The pop and clarity is what I'm worried about. I really think my painted wall screen is something special but I hope to be proven wrong as I attempt to go AT. Text is so razor sharp, I haven't seen that in other rooms.

Pop was what I was looking for so i went with the XD... the Falcon were inbetween the XD and Black Diamond, both were 'muted'.. but both had more 'dark contrast'.. i guess it's always about whether you want more 'dark contrast' vs pop..... I went with the 'pop' factor as that was more important to me.. it's akin to having 'more dynamic range' in speakers... and I really love 3D so any extra brightness is always a plus.

Also, the XD looks better for skin tones (this one is very subjective, but both my buddy and i prefered the skin tones of the XD vs falson vs Black Diamond, but the Clearpix 4K beats everyone by a mile both in quality and price.. heh).
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post #26765 of 26778 Old Yesterday, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post
Pop was what I was looking for so i went with the XD... the Falcon were inbetween the XD and Black Diamond, both were 'muted'.. but both had more 'dark contrast'.. i guess it's always about whether you want more 'dark contrast' vs pop..... I went with the 'pop' factor as that was more important to me.. it's akin to having 'more dynamic range' in speakers... and I really love 3D so any extra brightness is always a plus.

Also, the XD looks better for skin tones (this one is very subjective, but both my buddy and i prefered the skin tones of the XD vs falson vs Black Diamond, but the Clearpix 4K beats everyone by a mile both in quality and price.. heh).
Which Falcon? Was it the new Horizon material? That's what I was thinking about getting.
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post #26766 of 26778 Old Yesterday, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
Which Falcon? Was it the new Horizon material? That's what I was thinking about getting.
I am reposting this here so you can see for yourself. It was previously posted on another thread (note: this was quite a while back so i don't think it's their new screen if they have any):

I am almost ready to buy my screen now and I have decided to go with the XD as it's the brightest AT screen I could find and after spending hours viewing lots of materials both still images and BluRay movies, both me and my friends that that XD looks the best. BTW: This is my own and my friend's opinions. You should always get your own sample and make your own decision on what screens best fit your home theater.

Please note that I have not tested any of their Acoustic Properties. We know the specs for the XD pretty well as it's published on the Seymour website (assuming it's accurate). The falcon still needed to be tested. With a tighter weave, I would assume it's going to lose out at least in a small bit in terms of acoustic transparency.. but that's just conjecture at this point.

My review of the screens are as follows:


Falcon:

- Weave is visible to about 8 feet. People with very sharp eyesight might be able to see them at about 10 feet (Note: weave is only visible with bright white scenes and not very visible for regular movie scenes).
- Contrast a bit better than XD (black is slightly blacker, some colors are deeper)
- Brightness level loses to XD but beats EN4K. I would say, from the photos below as you can see yourself, the gain level of the Falcon is right in the middle of the XD and the EN4K. From what we know, it's published by Seymour that their XD is 20% brighter than their EN4K, so I would say the Falson is 10% dimmer than the XD.

Centerstage XD:

- Weave visible to about 10 feet and disappears at about 11-12 feet depending on your eyesight. And this only applies to very bright/white scenes. For amost all movie scenes, I could not see it even at 6-8 feet (or rather would not notice it if i wasn't squinting my eyes and purposely looking for it).
- Contrast slightly less than either the Falcon or EN4K, but it's hardly noticeable in moving pictures. For still images it's noticeable.
- Gain - This has the most gain. And it looks the best to me in terms of the 'pop' factor. Skin tones are the most natural and translucent, compared to the 'duller' EN4K or Falcon.

Summary:

If you're going to be sitting beyond 10 feet, I would really suggest the XD. If you're sitting really close, then the Falson,.. I really couldn't recommend the EN4K because it's just so darn dark... You'll need a light canon of a projector... or, if your screen is really small...

Photos below are shown in such a way:

Left: Falcon
Middle: XD
Right : EN4K

Note: Seymour have published that the EN4K material is 20% dimmer than the XD, and as you can see the Left looks almost exactly in the middle in terms of brightness between the XD and the EN4K, so my initial statement that the Falcon is about 10% dimmer is just about right. Without a proper measurement, I'll say it'll be around that ball-park, give or take a few percentage.

See for yourself:





In these last two scenes, the differences not as much but still visible there. When watching a full movie, the XD will have more pop overall and colors are more vibrant.


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post #26767 of 26778 Old Yesterday, 08:14 PM
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Thanks for posting that, love looking at comparisons like that. To me the biggest issue is being able to "see the screen" and I know this new Falcon material is awesome for not being able to see it. Still, it's worth a risk at 500 bucks to see if this screen will do it for me. The XD looks great at Jonathan's so if this cheap Elite stuff looks as good as that I'll probably be fine - but - I'm still worried that my painted wall might be better than all the above - still - I'm an audio first guy and hearing the 212 vertical and on a stand this week was so much better than having it horizontal and below the screen.
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post #26768 of 26778 Old Yesterday, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
If all the planets align you can see the new stuff on Tuesday!!

Current Gear: PJ – BenQ PE7700; Receiver - Onkyo TX-SR805; Blu Ray - OppoBDP 103; Turntable - Dual CS-515 w/ Ortofon Super OM10; Amplifiers - OdysseyKhartago, Adcom GFA555, QSC RMX 1850HD; PEQ - Behringer FBD2496 [Near FieldSub], miniDSP 2×4 [Flanking Subs], REW; Speakers - 4 Pi (w/B&C DE250/JBL2226H) × 3 [LCR], Yamaha Crap × 2 [surrounds], Exodus Audio Maelstrom-X18" sealed sub [near field sub], LAB-12 based ported sub tuned to 22 Hz x2 [flanking subs, XO set at 40 Hz]
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post #26769 of 26778 Old Yesterday, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
Thanks for posting that, love looking at comparisons like that. To me the biggest issue is being able to "see the screen" and I know this new Falcon material is awesome for not being able to see it. Still, it's worth a risk at 500 bucks to see if this screen will do it for me. The XD looks great at Jonathan's so if this cheap Elite stuff looks as good as that I'll probably be fine - but - I'm still worried that my painted wall might be better than all the above - still - I'm an audio first guy and hearing the 212 vertical and on a stand this week was so much better than having it horizontal and below the screen.
Blasphemy...oh wait, me too. +1

Merry Christmas to the JTR family!
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post #26770 of 26778 Old Yesterday, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
Thanks for posting that, love looking at comparisons like that. To me the biggest issue is being able to "see the screen" and I know this new Falcon material is awesome for not being able to see it. Still, it's worth a risk at 500 bucks to see if this screen will do it for me. The XD looks great at Jonathan's so if this cheap Elite stuff looks as good as that I'll probably be fine - but - I'm still worried that my painted wall might be better than all the above - still - I'm an audio first guy and hearing the 212 vertical and on a stand this week was so much better than having it horizontal and below the screen.
I've yet to see any AT screens that look as good as traditional or painted. I watch quite a bit of 3D and my buddy has the XD material, it's pretty dark for 3D on his 120 inch. He's got a Sony 55ES and ended up taking it out. I personally haven't seen any falcon stuff, so no comment on that but I can see his weave at his 11 foot seating position... needless to say it dove him/me bonkers to see it. my OCD for stuff like that is really bad lol

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #26771 of 26778 Old Yesterday, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
I've yet to see any AT screens that look as good as traditional or painted. I watch quite a bit of 3D and my buddy has the XD material, it's pretty dark for 3D on his 120 inch. He's got a Sony 55ES and ended up taking it out. I personally haven't seen any falcon stuff, so no comment on that but I can see his weave at his 11 foot seating position... needless to say it dove him/me bonkers to see it. my OCD for stuff like that is really bad lol
You have pretty sharp eyesight for sure...

On another note, I tested the XD on both the Sony 55es and the sony 500es (4K) and for some reason, on the 4K the weave is not as noticeable... it could be a combination of pixel size / weave that creates that overall effect... on the 500ES, it was really smooth even at 8 feet...

3D is dark on ANY screen I have seen. I heard it can suck up 80% of the light, ie, you're only seeing about 20% of total light... Although the 500ES looks decent enough as it's a light canon compared to the 55ES... In fact, it's the best 3D i have ever seen so far.

I can't wait for Laser projectors to debut in Cinemas and Home Theaters... I heard they can make it as bright as viewing 2D..... with much better contrast and dynamic range.

Last edited by coolgeek; Yesterday at 11:05 PM.
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post #26772 of 26778 Old Today, 02:10 AM
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I sit 11ft from my screen, with the large 2'x2' XD sample that I had I could tell fairly quickly that it wasn't going to work for me, I could easily see the screen weave from my seat. I could actually see it close to 9ft away. With the original Falcon material I could see the weave at 5-6ft so that was a big improvement.

With the new Falcon Horizan material there is virtually not weave at all, plus I don't feel that I've lost any image pop. I couldn't be happier with my screen and the masking panels work great too.
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post #26773 of 26778 Old Today, 05:49 AM
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A little off the subject, but there is a guy that comes to Andrews GTG's by the name of Bill (RX-8), some of you have met him. He has Seaton Cat 12's all the way around, I believe 7 in all. I have to bet that it sounds amazing. I believe I had read that @Jim Wilson heard it?
Hey everyone. Just a quick note to say that I'm using four Cat8's as my surrounds. IMHO they do sound amazing.

Cheers!
-- Bill --
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post #26774 of 26778 Old Today, 06:11 AM
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I sit 11ft from my screen, with the large 2'x2' XD sample that I had I could tell fairly quickly that it wasn't going to work for me, I could easily see the screen weave from my seat. I could actually see it close to 9ft away. With the original Falcon material I could see the weave at 5-6ft so that was a big improvement.

With the new Falcon Horizon material there is virtually not weave at all, plus I don't feel that I've lost any image pop. I couldn't be happier with my screen and the masking panels work great too.
Jbrown15, Beast and I all have the new Falcon Horizon AT material for our screen. This is my first AT screen so I can't compare it to the Seymour XD or other AT material but I can say three things:

1)I can not see the weave from my 12 ft seating position at all...you can't see it until you get really close

2)compared to my previous Stewart Cima screen (non-AT), it holds up very well. The Stewart had a lower gain an probably slightly better blacks but the trade off is that the Falcon actually throws a brighter picture.

3)being able to place speakers behind the screen does add to the impact for movies/HT. The center channel, especially, being in the middle of the screen helps with the HT experience
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post #26775 of 26778 Old Today, 07:03 AM
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In a year our new house will be finished. We would really love to have 2 pieces of the Noesis 215RT. This will be the total setup so no surround setup but a stereo setup.

I'm hoping someone can help me with a sanity check if this will be possible in our new room.

One of the speakers will be placed in the corner of the room and one in the middle of the long wall. My feeling says that the one in the middle can be a problem and very hard to correct with a dsp.

I will do some measurement when the house is finished but I'm hoping somebody can tell me by experience or same kind of room if this will be a mission impossible on forehand.

Hope the pictures will help. The red dots will be the spot for the 215's.
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post #26776 of 26778 Old Today, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
I've yet to see any AT screens that look as good as traditional or painted. I watch quite a bit of 3D and my buddy has the XD material, it's pretty dark for 3D on his 120 inch. He's got a Sony 55ES and ended up taking it out. I personally haven't seen any falcon stuff, so no comment on that but I can see his weave at his 11 foot seating position... needless to say it dove him/me bonkers to see it. my OCD for stuff like that is really bad lol
This is what I'm afraid of. However if it comes down to audio vs video I know what will win for me. I think my audio issue is worse than most because my center is only about 6 inches off the ground. I have a massive null from 400 to 600 hz if I remember right. Also since it's so low to the ground the second row is really bad, the center sounds like its 6 dbs low or something like that.
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post #26777 of 26778 Old Today, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
Jbrown15, Beast and I all have the new Falcon Horizon AT material for our screen. This is my first AT screen so I can't compare it to the Seymour XD or other AT material but I can say three things:

1)I can not see the weave from my 12 ft seating position at all...you can't see it until you get really close

2)compared to my previous Stewart Cima screen (non-AT), it holds up very well. The Stewart had a lower gain an probably slightly better blacks but the trade off is that the Falcon actually throws a brighter picture.

3)being able to place speakers behind the screen does add to the impact for movies/HT. The center channel, especially, being in the middle of the screen helps with the HT experience
The Horizon is looking good....
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post #26778 of 26778 Old Today, 07:25 AM
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Hey everyone. Just a quick note to say that I'm using four Cat8's as my surrounds. IMHO they do sound amazing.

Cheers!
-- Bill --
Hey Bill, that is an awesome setup. Do you run your LCR as large with the full range dsp or do you keep them as small?

Also, do you have some pictures of your setup? As you know this is a very Seaton friendly thread.
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