Official JTR speaker thread - Page 895 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #26821 of 36155 Old 12-31-2014, 12:47 AM
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Wauw, I just drove to work for the last day of this year and look at the post. Awesome forum this is

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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
Daveys is saying he only plans to use them for music, you don't think the RM's could play down below 30hz in room? For music he's not really going to need them do go down to 18hz like the RT's.
It's not only music

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Originally Posted by Daveys View Post
Thanks, my wife will certainly love this answer but I do want the best stereo set-up. That's why I think / thought the full range tower is the best option. I really don't want more than two speakers, no matter what the size is.

Having said this, to get the best advice from owners of the JTR's it will probably help telling you what the set-up will be.

My setup will be the TV settopbox and a PS3. I will watch some movies and series on Netflix, watch a lot of tv and listen to some music, mostly radio stations. On occasion I will watch a music BluRay from a concert.

It will be very usefull for me to have a phantom center and I don't know if the RM can create it as good as the RM?
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post #26822 of 36155 Old 12-31-2014, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
Yep, the RMs might keep him happy, the RTs definitely would, at least in terms of bass. I'm assuming he's heard the 215s and likes the sonic signature. I only say that because I preferred the sound of the aluminum horn 212s over the 215s. Asoofi1 and Coach have the same preference of the 212 over the 215. And others like the 215 over the 212. So if someone hasn't heard them, I'd strongly recommend listening to them first as moving 215RTs isn't any fun.
This is the exactly the point. I won't be able to listen to them first. So why is this crazy Dutchman going for JTR? I fell in love with the looks of JTR, I read a lot of positive stories, I love SPL, I love horns, I love a good and solid bas, I want only two speakers for everything. All these things keep pushing me to the JTR's

The RM's might do the job and the RT's will definitely do the job? When this is the case I don't see the need to make a decision
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post #26823 of 36155 Old 12-31-2014, 01:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
I don't often play music that goes below 30hz but I do it enough to not want to do without it.
This is a very solid point for me, thanks!
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post #26824 of 36155 Old 12-31-2014, 01:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveys View Post
This is the exactly the point. I won't be able to listen to them first. So why is this crazy Dutchman going for JTR? I fell in love with the looks of JTR, I read a lot of positive stories, I love SPL, I love horns, I love a good and solid bas, I want only two speakers for everything. All these things keep pushing me to the JTR's

The RM's might do the job and the RT's will definitely do the job? When this is the case I don't see the need to make a decision

Make sure you have a way to tweak the bass to your liking. One of the minidsp's would be a great choice.
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post #26825 of 36155 Old 12-31-2014, 01:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
I wasn't trying for depth when I DSPd Coach's 215RM, more flat with a midbass boost. Looking at the Pre-DSP, if you throw some power at the situation along with a Linkwitz-transform on the sealed woofers, you might be able to get strong 30Hz output.


Yep after seeing that graph I would take back what I said!....LOL
Go with the 215RT!


Man both look like they fall off of a cliff at 60hz though don't they?


Here's a measurement graph from my mains, left & right full range with no EQ and 1/12 smoothing applied.





I know I know rhed, I need to show it in 5dB increments!....LOL
I was hoping to get around to take a few more measurements over the holidays, but I've been having such a great time hanging with my kids that I just haven't gotten around too it yet.
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post #26826 of 36155 Old 12-31-2014, 01:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
Make sure you have a way to tweak the bass to your liking. One of the minidsp's would be a great choice.
Also a very valid point and I'm still looking which way I want to go.

Will Audyssey XT32 be able to do such a big job or am I going for the Anti-Mode DC or something in that range.

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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
Yep after seeing that graph I would take back what I said!....LOL
Go with the 215RT!
Glad I didn't talk to my wife about this and asked you guys first

Last edited by Daveys; 12-31-2014 at 01:18 AM.
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post #26827 of 36155 Old 12-31-2014, 06:06 AM
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So now DTS:X SURROUND is being announced for the home market at CES. I know technology changes but with 4K (HDCP 2.2 and HDMI 2.0) and the competing new sound formats (Atmos, Auro, DTS:X), it is tricky time to buy new electronics. I was considering the Marantz 8802 that is coming out or the new Denon 7200 but no idea if they will be upgreadable to DTS:X. Might wait a little while and see how everything shakes out and just hang on to my 8801 for a while longer. Almost no Atmos or Auro disks are available for sale and wonder if any of the formats will even take off or if the DTS:x speaker configurations will line-up with Atmos or Auro (because they don't align with each other) or if it will be yet another "recommended speaker layout".


http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...eer-more/20275

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post #26828 of 36155 Old 12-31-2014, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
So now DTS:X SURROUND is being announced for the home market at CES. I know technology changes but with 4K (HDCP 2.2 and HDMI 2.0) and the competing new sound formats (Atmos, Auro, DTS:X), it is tricky time to buy new electronics. I was considering the Marantz 8802 that is coming out or the new Denon 7200 but no idea if they will be upgreadable to DTS:X. Might wait a little while and see how everything shakes out and just hang on to my 8801 for a while longer. Almost no Atmos or Auro disks are available for sale and wonder if any of the formats will even take off or if the speaker configurations will line-up with Atmos or Auro (because they don't align with each other) or if it will be yet another "recommended speaker layout".


http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...eer-more/20275

This is the exact reason why I am waiting a couple of years to buy a new avr.

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post #26829 of 36155 Old 12-31-2014, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveys View Post
This is the exactly the point. I won't be able to listen to them first. So why is this crazy Dutchman going for JTR? I fell in love with the looks of JTR, I read a lot of positive stories, I love SPL, I love horns, I love a good and solid bas, I want only two speakers for everything. All these things keep pushing me to the JTR's

The RM's might do the job and the RT's will definitely do the job? When this is the case I don't see the need to make a decision
Then you are a good candidate for the 215RTs. If you haven't heard the 212s or 215s then you won't have any preconceived notions. Since you mentioned liking horns, the 215s will be great but they won't be as bright as the Klipsch, which to me is a good thing. I think you'll get used to them pretty quickly and love them...the 215RTs I mean.
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post #26830 of 36155 Old 12-31-2014, 06:40 AM
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@Daveys

I agree that if you don't plan on using subs, the RT models are the clear choice. The RMs and HTs are designed to be used with subs.

There is a significant benefit to having a full range system with bass, whether it's with full range speakers or with subs. You don't get speakers in this class if you don't want the best.

I'd also recommend some kind of good room correction and EQ that allows fine tuning the sound to your taste. I really like Dirac, which can be had as PC software (if you use a PC as your only source), in the XMC-1 pre-amp, or as a Dirac miniDSP (if you want to use it with your existing receiver).

http://www.minidsp.com/products/dira...t-line-summary
http://www.dirac.se/en/online-store.aspx
https://emotiva.com/products/pres-and-pros/xmc-1
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post #26831 of 36155 Old 12-31-2014, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post
This is the exact reason why I am waiting a couple of years to buy a new avr.
Yeah, I think you pretty much have to plan on buying one in a couple years for a surround setup, regardless of what you do now.
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post #26832 of 36155 Old 12-31-2014, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post
This is the exact reason why I am waiting a couple of years to buy a new avr.
Same here.

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post #26833 of 36155 Old 12-31-2014, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
Then you are a good candidate for the 215RTs. If you haven't heard the 212s or 215s then you won't have any preconceived notions. Since you mentioned liking horns, the 215s will be great but they won't be as bright as the Klipsch, which to me is a good thing. I think you'll get used to them pretty quickly and love them...the 215RTs I mean.
Actually the brightness of the Klipsch is the reason that I'm searching for something else, more laid back. The Klipsch is too much in your face for my taste at higer volumes. Maybe it was the combination with my Onkyo.

What would be a good pre-amp with the JTR's to have it nice and laid back sounding? I always believe the pre-amp has the most influence on the final sound you will get and not the amplifier.

It is nice that you, actually the speakers, can go loud if you want and with the JTR's in general that won't be a problem. Like carp said, I don't often play music that goes below 30hz but I do it enough to not want to do without it..
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post #26834 of 36155 Old 12-31-2014, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
So now DTS:X SURROUND is being announced for the home market at CES. I know technology changes but with 4K (HDCP 2.2 and HDMI 2.0) and the competing new sound formats (Atmos, Auro, DTS:X), it is tricky time to buy new electronics. I was considering the Marantz 8802 that is coming out or the new Denon 7200 but no idea if they will be upgreadable to DTS:X. Might wait a little while and see how everything shakes out and just hang on to my 8801 for a while longer. Almost no Atmos or Auro disks are available for sale and wonder if any of the formats will even take off or if the DTS:x speaker configurations will line-up with Atmos or Auro (because they don't align with each other) or if it will be yet another "recommended speaker layout".


http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...eer-more/20275
Yep......Just going to slowly work a quad set of ceiling speakers into the theater. Take my sweet time running the wire and have everything cocked-locked, and and ready to rock when I do decide to pull that trigger One thing I haven't seen, are people just going to be bitstreaming from their BD players to take advantage of atmos encoded discs with these new AVR/P's? AFAIK the oppo won't decode atmos format or am I missing something?
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post #26835 of 36155 Old 12-31-2014, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
@Daveys

I agree that if you don't plan on using subs, the RT models are the clear choice. The RMs and HTs are designed to be used with subs.

There is a significant benefit to having a full range system with bass, whether it's with full range speakers or with subs. You don't get speakers in this class if you don't want the best.
+1.

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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
@Daveys
I'd also recommend some kind of good room correction and EQ that allows fine tuning the sound to your taste. I really like Dirac, which can be had as PC software (if you use a PC as your only source), in the XMC-1 pre-amp, or as a Dirac miniDSP (if you want to use it with your existing receiver).

http://www.minidsp.com/products/dira...t-line-summary
http://www.dirac.se/en/online-store.aspx
https://emotiva.com/products/pres-and-pros/xmc-1
I'm getting more and more into this room correction. There is a lot to read and a lot to learn. I will definitely need it, no doubt about that. Have you seen my room a couple of pages back

I read a lot of good things about the Anti-Mode Dual Core. It will correct the total speaker instead of only the subs but this is only one of many options available. Also Dirac is recommended by a lot of people.

About Emotiva, I don't think I will go that way. I read to many stories about them at the moment about hsss'es and ssss'es. That doesn't sound laid back enough for me.
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post #26836 of 36155 Old 12-31-2014, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Daveys View Post
Actually the brightness of the Klipsch is the reason that I'm searching for something else, more laid back. The Klipsch is too much in your face for my taste at higer volumes. Maybe it was the combination with my Onkyo.

What would be a good pre-amp with the JTR's to have it nice and laid back sounding? I always believe the pre-amp has the most influence on the final sound you will get and not the amplifier.

It is nice that you, actually the speakers, can go loud if you want and with the JTR's in general that won't be a problem. Like carp said, I don't often play music that goes below 30hz but I do it enough to not want to do without it..
If you are using Dirac these kinds of concerns are non-issues. You can tailor it to your taste. No need to worry about subtle differences in sounds between preamps, DACs, etc. You can't push speakers beyond their capabilities, but the JTR speakers are very capable. Other EQ systems can do similar stuff, but I have had better luck with Dirac.

If you need a pre-amp, I think the Emotiva one with built in Dirac would probably work well for you, as long as you get the $100 full Dirac upgrade. There are ways to get big discounts on it, too. I wouldn't be scared at all about it not being laid back enough. If that's the case, just fine tune the target curve to be perfect.

It's hard to predict how specific speakers (or anything) will sound in your room, so it's hard to put too much stock in other people's experiences. That's part of why the ability to fine tune to perfection is so valuable.
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post #26837 of 36155 Old 12-31-2014, 09:10 AM
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Daveys, from reading your posts, you should go with the 215 Rt. They will handle every situation. The RMs will lack in areas. Do it once and do it right... Believe me, it's the way to do it
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post #26838 of 36155 Old 12-31-2014, 09:27 AM
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Daveys, from reading your posts, you should go with the 215 Rt. They will handle every situation. The RMs will lack in areas. Do it once and do it right... Believe me, it's the way to do it
Great advise! I spent a couple of hours yesterday at carps listening to his 215's with music I am extremely familiar with (as in 30+ years with a multitude of systems) and the 215's were the best I've heard. Full range with power...such deeeeeeeeeep and powerful bass made it hard to believe no subs were in the chain.
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post #26839 of 36155 Old 12-31-2014, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveys View Post
Also a very valid point and I'm still looking which way I want to go.

Will Audyssey XT32 be able to do such a big job or am I going for the Anti-Mode DC or something in that range.



Glad I didn't talk to my wife about this and asked you guys first
Anti-Mode DC has options to tweak the sound.
XT32 does not.
Since you won't use subwoofers XT32 would not be my choice since you can't even trim those.
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post #26840 of 36155 Old 12-31-2014, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
Daveys, from reading your posts, you should go with the 215 Rt. They will handle every situation. The RMs will lack in areas. Do it once and do it right... Believe me, it's the way to do it
Very good advice and also a great line, "do it once and do it right"

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Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post
Great advise! I spent a couple of hours yesterday at carps listening to his 215's with music I am extremely familiar with (as in 30+ years with a multitude of systems) and the 215's were the best I've heard. Full range with power...such deeeeeeeeeep and powerful bass made it hard to believe no subs were in the chain.
Great to read this also and great support, thanks!

Can you tell me anything about the phantom center? Did you experience that yesterday at carps?

Last edited by Daveys; 12-31-2014 at 11:07 AM.
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post #26841 of 36155 Old 12-31-2014, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post
Great advise! I spent a couple of hours yesterday at carps listening to his 215's with music I am extremely familiar with (as in 30+ years with a multitude of systems) and the 215's were the best I've heard. Full range with power...such deeeeeeeeeep and powerful bass made it hard to believe no subs were in the chain.

Great time yesterday Steve, I spend a couple hours late last night listening to some more Sabbath! Thanks for coming over again, I talked to Jonathan and he said you guys had a good time over there too (however I'm now I'm scared of a small pox outbreak!) - I wish I could have made it over.

I painted the nearfield box last night. I figured I'd do it like I did all the flat packs, just paint it in the laundry room. Well, that was a bad idea. My wife came down at 1 in the morning and said she woke up with a headache and couldn't sleep because the whole house smells like paint!! So, I'm opening up windows at 1 in the morning to air it out with an outside temperature of 5 degrees or something like that. Good times. I'm an idiot.
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post #26842 of 36155 Old 12-31-2014, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post
Great advise! I spent a couple of hours yesterday at carps listening to his 215's with music I am extremely familiar with (as in 30+ years with a multitude of systems) and the 215's were the best I've heard. Full range with power…such deeeeeeeeeep and powerful bass made it hard to believe no subs were in the chain.
So I am curious what your thoughts are with Carps 215's and my 215's at the GTG? Did you notice a difference or one you preferred?
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post #26843 of 36155 Old 12-31-2014, 11:16 AM
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Very good advice and also a great line, "do it once and do it right"

Great to read this also and great support, thanks!

Can you tell me anything about the phantom center? Did you experience that yesterday at carps?
In my experience constant directivity speakers excel at producing a solid center image and the 215's were no exception. I ran my 4 Pi's for several years w/o a center speaker and at times I still prefer not using the center channel speaker when watching by myself. The 215's will work well for your needs unless you sit way outside the sweet spot.

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post #26844 of 36155 Old 12-31-2014, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
Great time yesterday Steve, I spend a couple hours late last night listening to some more Sabbath! Thanks for coming over again, I talked to Jonathan and he said you guys had a good time over there too (however I'm now I'm scared of a small pox outbreak!) - I wish I could have made it over.

I painted the nearfield box last night. I figured I'd do it like I did all the flat packs, just paint it in the laundry room. Well, that was a bad idea. My wife came down at 1 in the morning and said she woke up with a headache and couldn't sleep because the whole house smells like paint!! So, I'm opening up windows at 1 in the morning to air it out with an outside temperature of 5 degrees or something like that. Good times. I'm an idiot.
I had a great time at both your place and Jonathan's. I am ready to retire now and move back home, but alas I have to wait.

Sounds like you will be in the dog house! Better than getting some duratex on the carpet...

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post #26845 of 36155 Old 12-31-2014, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
So I am curious what your thoughts are with Carps 215's and my 215's at the GTG? Did you notice a difference or one you preferred?
I "think" the sound at carp's was cleaner than at the G2G. The bass was awesome with his house curve, and actually seems a bit light when ran w/o EQ. Definately showed that Andrew's room has some hellacious pressure vessel gain in the low frequencies (which is AWESOME).

The highs were very smooth and detailed, no harshness detected.

I guess I need to drive across the bay to hear yours in their native environment.

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post #26846 of 36155 Old 12-31-2014, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
If you are using Dirac these kinds of concerns are non-issues. You can tailor it to your taste. No need to worry about subtle differences in sounds between preamps, DACs, etc. You can't push speakers beyond their capabilities, but the JTR speakers are very capable. Other EQ systems can do similar stuff, but I have had better luck with Dirac.

If you need a pre-amp, I think the Emotiva one with built in Dirac would probably work well for you, as long as you get the $100 full Dirac upgrade. There are ways to get big discounts on it, too. I wouldn't be scared at all about it not being laid back enough. If that's the case, just fine tune the target curve to be perfect.

It's hard to predict how specific speakers (or anything) will sound in your room, so it's hard to put too much stock in other people's experiences. That's part of why the ability to fine tune to perfection is so valuable.
Isn't it best to be as close as possible to the ideal before you start with any correction? That's why I still believe a pre-amp is important. What you say is a pretty big statement and actually I love to believe it because it will save me a couple of Euro's

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Originally Posted by staaled View Post
Anti-Mode DC has options to tweak the sound.
XT32 does not.
Since you won't use subwoofers XT32 would not be my choice since you can't even trim those.
You're right, there are no subs. Even I have to get use to it
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post #26847 of 36155 Old 12-31-2014, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post
I "think" the sound at carp's was cleaner than at the G2G. The bass was awesome with his house curve, and actually seems a bit light when ran w/o EQ. Definately showed that Andrew's room has some hellacious pressure vessel gain in the low frequencies (which is AWESOME).

The highs were very smooth and detailed, no harshness detected.

I guess I need to drive across the bay to hear yours in their native environment.
Sure anytime man. I am running my 215's probably close to or identical to Sheldon's, oddly enough I think we both like them set up the same way, however my room is probably half the size or more of his, you will feel bass, that is fur sur!! I was just curious to here what you thought of the 215's in a different room.
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post #26848 of 36155 Old 12-31-2014, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Daveys View Post
Isn't it best to be as close as possible to the ideal before you start with any correction? That's why I still believe a pre-amp is important. What you say is a pretty big statement and actually I love to believe it because it will save me a couple of Euro's
Focus on good speakers, room treatment, and having enough clean power.

Seriously, as long as you are using a good EQ system like Dirac, focus on features for pre-amps, not sound quality. Changes to the target curve will matter in meaningful ways, but it will automatically compensate for the little differences introduced by a pre-amp, and do so without any audible compromise.

Last edited by rcohen; 12-31-2014 at 05:28 PM.
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post #26849 of 36155 Old 12-31-2014, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Daveys View Post
Also a very valid point and I'm still looking which way I want to go.

Will Audyssey XT32 be able to do such a big job or am I going for the Anti-Mode DC or something in that range.



Glad I didn't talk to my wife about this and asked you guys first
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
Then you are a good candidate for the 215RTs. If you haven't heard the 212s or 215s then you won't have any preconceived notions. Since you mentioned liking horns, the 215s will be great but they won't be as bright as the Klipsch, which to me is a good thing. I think you'll get used to them pretty quickly and love them...the 215RTs I mean.
dgage is right, if you absolutely can't audition or have no way to listen to the speakers ahead of time, then any one of the choices mentioned will put a big smile on your face, I am sure...

In fact, I was in the same boat a couple years back. I live 8000 miles away and have zero chance of ever listening to any of the speakers before purchasing so i just lurked on the forum for a while and read all the reviews. The good and the bad... and the most important are the comparisons and differing opinions. And eventually i ended up with the 212s... and couldn't be happier... until today i am ignorant on how the other offerings would sound, but then since the 212s far, far exceeded all my expectations, i am ignorantly happy with what i have and can't ever go back to commercial type hi-fi speakers....

As for Audyssey... I am not happy with it. I think a lot of people aren't either. But some are very happy. I wouldn't put all my hopes on it. If you're looking to manage your bass, then Antimode might be the product or a minidsp. I am running all my speakers off a receiver, so an external DSP is not possible at this point.

One last bit of friendly advice... once you get your speakers, delete AVSForum from your browser... haha... because no matter how happy you're with whatever you end up getting, AVS, especially the JTR Forum will pull you back with bigger, badder speakers... I am now itching to have the 215 RMs.... my wallet will not be happy...
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post #26850 of 36155 Old 12-31-2014, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post
One last bit of friendly advice... once you get your speakers, delete AVSForum from your browser... haha... because no matter how happy you're with whatever you end up getting, AVS, especially the JTR Forum will pull you back with bigger, badder speakers... I am now itching to have the 215 RMs.... my wallet will not be happy...
+1! Best advice you can get on this thread!
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