Official JTR speaker thread - Page 910 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #27271 of 28360 Old 01-19-2015, 03:34 PM
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I was reading a while ago that XT32 may have been improved recently with the marantz offerings, but I can't seem to find any confirmation. Has anyone else morticed (or heard about) this?
Yes it's not confirmed by D and ' but many including me have noticed a big difference in the older xt32 and the new one

I always had 3-4 filters needed with my minidsp after audy calibration. But now I don't rally need it at all. (I do use one filter to et super duper flat though)

It may not be published, but it has defiantly improved
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post #27272 of 28360 Old 01-19-2015, 03:49 PM
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I wish I had known, it scared the sh*t out of me when I took out the last bolt - I thought the horn would stay put but it came tumbling out. I caught it and to damage done but my heart rate jumped up quite a bit!
I went through the same thing. I managed to catch it, but it could have been bad.
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post #27273 of 28360 Old 01-19-2015, 04:00 PM
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I'm interested also in any improvements in audyssey 32 also. Has an improvement been confirmed? Why wouldn't audyssey publish an improvement? The reason I ask is I'm currently comparing audyssey32 to Dirac. Dirac is far superior in my opinion. Today I went from Dirac back to audyssey just confirm. I have to be honest Dirac sounds much better. At least in my room. But I'm using audyssey32 on my onkyo 5508, so if it's been improved I would need to compare to the new/improved version.
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post #27274 of 28360 Old 01-19-2015, 04:07 PM
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I'm interested also in any improvements in audyssey 32 also. Has an improvement been confirmed? Why wouldn't audyssey publish an improvement? The reason I ask is I'm currently comparing audyssey32 to Dirac. Dirac is far superior in my opinion. Today I went from Dirac back to audyssey just confirm. I have to be honest Dirac sounds much better. At least in my room. But I'm using audyssey32 on my onkyo 5508, so if it's been improved I would need to compare to the new/improved version.
All I have read in the emo forums show that DIRAC is a minimal if any improvement over xt32. In fact more people are not happy than I can tell with DIRAC (I e harsh highs and no bass)
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post #27275 of 28360 Old 01-19-2015, 04:10 PM
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All I have read in the emo forums show that DIRAC is a minimal if any improvement over xt32. In fact more people are not happy than I can tell with DIRAC (I e harsh highs and no bass)
But with DIRAC you can tweak the curve to however you like it so that surprises me that people are saying that.
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post #27276 of 28360 Old 01-19-2015, 04:13 PM
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But with DIRAC you can tweak the curve to however you like it so that surprises me that people are saying that.
Not with the xmc1. I guess that's the difference
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post #27277 of 28360 Old 01-19-2015, 04:16 PM
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Not with the xmc1. I guess that's the difference
Woah - that's what is so intriguing about Dirac to me. People should have kept their old AVR and bought one of the minidsp with Dirac units....
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post #27278 of 28360 Old 01-19-2015, 04:19 PM
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But with DIRAC you can tweak the curve to however you like it so that surprises me that people are saying that.
Agreed!


Back to the XT32 talk....I hope the new version is better because I think the original XT32 is garbage. I have never been a fan of it because it is inconsistent and unreliable. It also started telling me the my center channel was out of phase after it has been calibrating my setup many times. I know the center speaker is not out of phase because I wired it all up and I double checked the wiring anyway after it told me it was out of phase. Ran it again and it didn't bitch about my center channel. See what I am talking about? It would also change the crossover to different settings between runs as well on the same speakers such as wides or whatever. Responses were different according to REW.
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post #27279 of 28360 Old 01-19-2015, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
All I have read in the emo forums show that DIRAC is a minimal if any improvement over xt32. In fact more people are not happy than I can tell with DIRAC (I e harsh highs and no bass)
You are correct, when flat it isn't great. I feel the same about audyssey. But with my DSP in my amp I boost the bass and reduce the highs and it is great. Currently the XMC-1 doesn't have the ability to edit the target response, but that will be an available upgrade soon. If I didn't have that capability then I would have said Dirac was terrible. I'm telling you in my situation, room, speakers, Dirac is better. But I haven't tried the updated audyssey32, but I would like to see something that says it's been updated before I purchase an 7702 to compare.
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post #27280 of 28360 Old 01-19-2015, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
All I have read in the emo forums show that DIRAC is a minimal if any improvement over xt32. In fact more people are not happy than I can tell with DIRAC (I e harsh highs and no bass)
Once you can fine tune the target curve to your taste, system, and room, Dirac is a league above XT32, IMO - for bass and treble.
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post #27281 of 28360 Old 01-19-2015, 05:29 PM
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Not with the xmc1. I guess that's the difference
I'm assuming the XMC1 doesn't have a target curve to keep cost down (guess it could be not enough processing power) but the discussion about Dirac not being very good shows that it was stupid of them to let Emotiva have a limited version.
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post #27282 of 28360 Old 01-19-2015, 05:52 PM
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I'm assuming the XMC1 doesn't have a target curve to keep cost down (guess it could be not enough processing power) but the discussion about Dirac not being very good shows that it was stupid of them to let Emotiva have a limited version.
The, hopefully, soon to be released upgrade for $99 will allow a few selected target curves. I'm telling you guys, if you haven't compared the two you should.
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post #27283 of 28360 Old 01-19-2015, 06:12 PM
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I'm assuming the XMC1 doesn't have a target curve to keep cost down (guess it could be not enough processing power) but the discussion about Dirac not being very good shows that it was stupid of them to let Emotiva have a limited version.
I agree. It seems like it's almost a bait and switch. Dirac is great... as long as you pay an extra $100. I guess I was looking for something that I could just run and forget about it until I finally learn to EQ myself. I thought that Dirac was supposed to be that, but apparently I was mistaken. I think that I will finally give up on the XMC and look to a marantz option.

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post #27284 of 28360 Old 01-19-2015, 06:31 PM
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Yes, the AV7702 is a keeper and after multiple setup attempts, I have finally achieved a better sound with Audyssey XT32. Not a large difference but a bit smoother and better bass response with Audyssey on.
Glad to see you rate the AV7702 as a keeper, should be getting mine soon.

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Yes it's not confirmed by D and ' but many including me have noticed a big difference in the older xt32 and the new one

I always had 3-4 filters needed with my minidsp after audy calibration. But now I don't rally need it at all. (I do use one filter to et super duper flat though)

It may not be published, but it has defiantly improved
Awesome...I would love to retire the miniDSP. I like how functional it is but I prefer fewer pieces in the chain.

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post #27285 of 28360 Old 01-19-2015, 06:58 PM
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I'm assuming the XMC1 doesn't have a target curve to keep cost down (guess it could be not enough processing power) but the discussion about Dirac not being very good shows that it was stupid of them to let Emotiva have a limited version.
I agree. It seems like it's almost a bait and switch. Dirac is great... as long as you pay an extra $100. I guess I was looking for something that I could just run and forget about it until I finally learn to EQ myself. I thought that Dirac was supposed to be that, but apparently I was mistaken. I think that I will finally give up on the XMC and look to a marantz option.
The processing power would be the same. I think it's just a way for Dirac to make some money, similar to Audussey Pro.

To get the most benefit from Dirac, you need to invest some time fine tuning it, but it's pretty easy to use.
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post #27286 of 28360 Old 01-19-2015, 07:04 PM
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The processing power would be the same. I think it's just a way for Dirac to make some money, similar to Audussey Pro.

To get the most benefit from Dirac, you need to invest some time fine tuning it, but it's pretty easy to use.
Understand that now but by doing that Dirac has now opened themselves up to poor feedback for those that don't spend the additional $99. So their money grab might result in them overall not making as much money due to "Dirac sucks" comments over a measly $99 each. Hope it works out well for them but this could hurt them more in the long run.
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post #27287 of 28360 Old 01-19-2015, 07:21 PM
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I agree. It seems like it's almost a bait and switch. Dirac is great... as long as you pay an extra $100. I guess I was looking for something that I could just run and forget about it until I finally learn to EQ myself. I thought that Dirac was supposed to be that, but apparently I was mistaken. I think that I will finally give up on the XMC and look to a marantz option.

Like you, I like to keep things as simple as possible and outside of the simplified and incomplete Emotiva version of Dirac, doing EQ with the full Dirac product version clearly isn't simple. All you have to do is read this miniDSP Thread to get a feel for the many steps involved to get slightly better results than what is very easy to achieve with the current Audyssey XT32 in the AV7702. I have been less than inthralled with Audyssey and it usually takes several setups to get it right, but when done correctly (proper mic placement and low room noise floor) you have a system that is equalized top to bottom and Dirac (even the full version) has issues with the bass frequencies that make the process much more difficult.

I had a NIB XMC-1 sitting in my HT but after setting up the Marantz, I sold the XMC-1. For me, all of the drama at Emotiva and their poor CS and PR track record pushed me over the edge. Thats not to say it is a bad unit as many are very happy with the XMC-1 and I'm happy for them but for me, and my priorities, the AV7702 is the correct SSP. Of course, YMMV
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post #27288 of 28360 Old 01-19-2015, 07:58 PM
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Like you, I like to keep things as simple as possible and outside of the simplified and incomplete Emotiva version of Dirac, doing EQ with the full Dirac product version clearly isn't simple. All you have to do is read this miniDSP Thread to get a feel for the many steps involved to get slightly better results than what is very easy to achieve with the current Audyssey XT32 in the AV7702. I have been less than inthralled with Audyssey and it usually takes several setups to get it right, but when done correctly (proper mic placement and low room noise floor) you have a system that is equalized top to bottom and Dirac (even the full version) has issues with the bass frequencies that make the process much more difficult.

I had a NIB XMC-1 sitting in my HT but after setting up the Marantz, I sold the XMC-1. For me, all of the drama at Emotiva and their poor CS and PR track record pushed me over the edge. Thats not to say it is a bad unit as many are very happy with the XMC-1 and I'm happy for them but for me, and my priorities, the AV7702 is the correct SSP. Of course, YMMV
My thoughts exactly.

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post #27289 of 28360 Old 01-19-2015, 09:19 PM
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the Dirac results are astounding if you can adjust the curve. I am doing this by lowering the amp volume on my subs while I run dirac and then bump them up after correction to get the bass curve I like.

I have yet to see someone posts the improvements in impulse response by running audyssey xt32 only. I have shown this improvement with Dirac for IR multiple times in this forum and verified with REW measurments. The frequency response is easy to EQ IMO compared to making improvements in the impulse response. I worked a long time with first reflection absorption and they did a lot for impulse response but also can be also difficult to balance with room asthetics. Dirac really shines in this regard and from what I have tested their mixed phase correction approach is far superior.

Now having said all this, the Emotiva execution with Dirac LE leaves some key bass management issues to be resolved which I have also posted about and verified with REW. It is not hit the button and forget it. It is for someone who is willing to work a bit to get to the next level. The full version will be much better with target curve editing but I am not sure all the bass management issues will be resolved. Should know in the next couple weeks and I will test to verify.

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post #27290 of 28360 Old 01-19-2015, 11:03 PM
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post #27291 of 28360 Old 01-20-2015, 07:17 AM
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Woah - that's what is so intriguing about Dirac to me. People should have kept their old AVR and bought one of the minidsp with Dirac units....
The XMC-1 can be upgraded to full Dirac.
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post #27292 of 28360 Old 01-20-2015, 07:29 AM
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The XMC-1 can be upgraded to full Dirac.
no it cant...well not yet anyhow..

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post #27293 of 28360 Old 01-20-2015, 07:39 AM
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no it cant...well not yet anyhow..
OK. My info is wrong then.
This is what I read on our local HTforum.nl.
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post #27294 of 28360 Old 01-20-2015, 01:32 PM
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no it cant...well not yet anyhow..
I think the point is it will be. I agree emotivas implementation was flawed, and if I didn't have DSP I would not have liked it. But if you haven't heard it with a nice house curve, I would try to. To me it's a game changer.
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post #27295 of 28360 Old 01-20-2015, 07:34 PM
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Understand that now but by doing that Dirac has now opened themselves up to poor feedback for those that don't spend the additional $99. So their money grab might result in them overall not making as much money due to "Dirac sucks" comments over a measly $99 each. Hope it works out well for them but this could hurt them more in the long run.
Maybe so. That would be a shame, because the full version is awesome.
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post #27296 of 28360 Old 01-20-2015, 07:44 PM
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...slightly better results than what is very easy to achieve with the current Audyssey XT32 in the AV7702.
Once you get it tweaked, it's much better, not slightly better. I'd like to see more people give the free demo a try.
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post #27297 of 28360 Old 01-20-2015, 11:43 PM
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Once you get it tweaked, it's much better, not slightly better. I'd like to see more people give the free demo a try.
I believe you.
But there are very few of you out there giving evidence based testimony. I am following the Dirac Threads with mild interest but I'm not interested in spending days of tweaking on PC based technology that ultimately I would not use. I want a solution integrated into my SSP that has been tested and vetted. Not an untested program with lot's of open issues. My system sounds good now (with and without Audyssey) so for me it is a solution looking for a problem.
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post #27298 of 28360 Old 01-21-2015, 12:47 AM
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I believe you.
But there are very few of you out there giving evidence based testimony. I am following the Dirac Threads with mild interest but I'm not interested in spending days of tweaking on PC based technology that ultimately I would not use. I want a solution integrated into my SSP that has been tested and vetted. Not an untested program with lot's of open issues. My system sounds good now (with and without Audyssey) so for me it is a solution looking for a problem.
Fair enough!
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post #27299 of 28360 Old 01-21-2015, 07:06 AM
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I believe you.
But there are very few of you out there giving evidence based testimony. I am following the Dirac Threads with mild interest but I'm not interested in spending days of tweaking on PC based technology that ultimately I would not use. I want a solution integrated into my SSP that has been tested and vetted. Not an untested program with lot's of open issues. My system sounds good now (with and without Audyssey) so for me it is a solution looking for a problem.
Get on it. Integrated solution for basically everything: http://www.trinnov.com/products/high...ntroduction-4/

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post #27300 of 28360 Old 01-21-2015, 07:12 AM
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Get on it. Integrated solution for basically everything: http://www.trinnov.com/products/high...ntroduction-4/
Yeah well that is definitely the platinum diamond encrusted solution looking for a problem ...

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