Official JTR speaker thread - Page 916 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 02-08-2015, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post
Older Yamaha interface. This was my first 7 channel avr and has done me well over the years. My theater gets all the newest gear rightfully so.
Cool - didn't know there really were any AVR's that could do it.
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Old 02-08-2015, 06:28 PM
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So, If you cross your surrounds at say 80hz, will the sub 80hz bass go to the mains?

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Old 02-08-2015, 06:34 PM
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So, If you cross your surrounds at say 80hz, will the sub 80hz bass go to the mains?
Good question, I wondered that lately myself.
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Old 02-08-2015, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
How does that center channel measure? Nice!
It measures 6.2 liters V8, hehe. I bought the 14 Raptor Thursday and figured they would like some JTR company on a Sunday afternoon.
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Old 02-08-2015, 06:49 PM
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Ok, it has been a heck of a busy week and I am just now getting around to setting up my 212s.

I ran Audessey and it set my 212s LR to large. I changed them to small at an 80 crossover. Curious how this is gonna work out...

JTR Noesis 212HTR (LR)JTR 228 (Center and Surrounds)Seaton SubMersive HP Plus and Minus (Subs)Denon 3312 (Receiver)Sherbourn PA 7-350 (Amp)Oppo BDP-103 (BluRay Player) and Sharp 80" TV

Last edited by rangers; 02-08-2015 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 02-08-2015, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by rangers View Post
Ok, it has been a heck of a busy week and I am just now getting around to setting up my 212s.

I ran Audessey and it set my 212s LR to large. I changed them to small at an 80 crossover. Curious how this is gonna work out...
"Small" is the correct answer.
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Old 02-08-2015, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post
So, If you cross your surrounds at say 80hz, will the sub 80hz bass go to the mains?
@carp

It depends on the bass mgmt implementation in the receiver. They can be inconsistent. Usually, you just need to find the right settings. If your mains are full range, your surrounds aren't, and you don't have subs, you certainly want it to do that. It should be easy to tell with REW or some test tones.

Another related issue is whether you want it to ditch LFE or send it to your mains. Usually with "full range" mains and no sub, you want it to ditch LFE. 215RTs might be a rare exception. Again, this varies between receivers, but there is probably a bass mgmt setting that will direct LFE to your mains. Even the terminology used in the settings is often inconsistent.

Edit: Oops...just read the rest of the posts and saw that this was already discussed.
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Old 02-08-2015, 07:23 PM
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What my AVR won't do (and I think most avr's are like this) is send the LFE to both the subs and the mains.
Carp.. I have a old Pioneer elite that's still governing the speaker setup in my system. And after research and postings in the MCACC thread. I've learned that if I select "Plus" instead of "Yes" and large for mains. It should be getting LFE routed to both subs and mains. I've been running it this way for a month now. And really liking it. Then again It could be a placebo effect.. Lol..
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Old 02-08-2015, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post
I know that Yamaha does because I do that in my living room. I don't think denon does.
Yes, I can confirm Yamaha does because I have a CX-A5000.

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Old 02-08-2015, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by rhed View Post
Carp.. I have a old Pioneer elite that's still governing the speaker setup in my system. And after research and postings in the MCACC thread. I've learned that if I select "Plus" instead of "Yes" and large for mains. It should be getting LFE routed to both subs and mains. I've been running it this way for a month now. And really liking it. Then again It could be a placebo effect.. Lol..
Back when I got the 215's I found a DD or DTS demo online - can't remember where I found it - that let you hear all the channels with test tones including the LFE channel. When I had my avr set to sub off I could hear the LFE tone in the mains.

However when I set the avr to "Plus" and then muted the subs using the minidsp you could no longer hear the LFE tone so I know my elite doesn't do it.
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Old 02-08-2015, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
@carp

It depends on the bass mgmt implementation in the receiver. They can be inconsistent. Usually, you just need to find the right settings. If your mains are full range, your surrounds aren't, and you don't have subs, you certainly want it to do that. It should be easy to tell with REW or some test tones.

Another related issue is whether you want it to ditch LFE or send it to your mains. Usually with "full range" mains and no sub, you want it to ditch LFE. 215RTs might be a rare exception. Again, this varies between receivers, but there is probably a bass mgmt setting that will direct LFE to your mains. Even the terminology used in the settings is often inconsistent.

Edit: Oops...just read the rest of the posts and saw that this was already discussed.

Do you agree with Marcus from the other thread that I should never have my mains set to large when using subs?
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Old 02-08-2015, 08:06 PM
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I just listened to a BluRay multichannel concert. Briefly hit high levels, now I smell like a burning smell of some sort
when I get near the speakers (brand new 212s). Is this what they mean by speaker burn in? Anyone else had this happen?

They play fine.

JTR Noesis 212HTR (LR)JTR 228 (Center and Surrounds)Seaton SubMersive HP Plus and Minus (Subs)Denon 3312 (Receiver)Sherbourn PA 7-350 (Amp)Oppo BDP-103 (BluRay Player) and Sharp 80" TV
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Old 02-08-2015, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
Back when I got the 215's I found a DD or DTS demo online - can't remember where I found it - that let you hear all the channels with test tones including the LFE channel. When I had my avr set to sub off I could hear the LFE tone in the mains.

However when I set the avr to "Plus" and then muted the subs using the minidsp you could no longer hear the LFE tone so I know my elite doesn't do it.
Hmm, I'd like to experiment on that myself. As I can manually mute the subs through the Antimode. I have a few dts demo disk myself. 2012 and 2013. Do you remember which one you had?
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Old 02-08-2015, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
Do you agree with Marcus from the other thread that I should never have my mains set to large when using subs?
My experience so far has been that once you have good subs properly integrated, small mode always sounds better.

It's really about the end result, not how you get there, though.

The trouble with large mains + subs is that the phase may not match at some frequencies, and they can cancel each other out.
That kind of problem should show up in a frequency response graph, if you are having them.

Marcus may not agree with this, but it's possible to do things the "wrong" way that has potential problems, and to get lucky and still get good results.
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Old 02-08-2015, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rangers View Post
I just listened to a BluRay multichannel concert. Briefly hit high levels, now I smell like a burning smell of some sort
when I get near the speakers (brand new 212s). Is this what they mean by speaker burn in? Anyone else had this happen?

They play fine.
I don't think that is normal.

Are you sure it is from the speakers and not the AVR/amp?

I know I could smell the paint/finish on my 228's for a few days after setting them up, but don't recall it smelling like somethjng burning.

Interesting that your AVR set the 212's to full range. Mine get set to 60hz but are about 28 inches from the wall. How close are yours to the wall behind them?
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Old 02-09-2015, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rangers View Post
I just listened to a BluRay multichannel concert. Briefly hit high levels, now I smell like a burning smell of some sort
when I get near the speakers (brand new 212s). Is this what they mean by speaker burn in? Anyone else had this happen?

They play fine.
I've had lots of different pairs of new speakers and never had a burning smell with then, that doesn't sound normal at all.
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Old 02-09-2015, 03:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rangers View Post
I just listened to a BluRay multichannel concert. Briefly hit high levels, now I smell like a burning smell of some sort
when I get near the speakers (brand new 212s). Is this what they mean by speaker burn in? Anyone else had this happen?

They play fine.
As Ray said brand new JTR's do a have a paint finish on them and they do have a smell for a little while, I like it myself. Just out of curiosity, do you have a gas fireplace in the room? I know I had a couch delivered years ago and they sprayed the couch and the gas fireplace was picking up the spray and made a burning smell in the room. We called the gas company and they came out and did an inspection and nothing, but could still smell the burning. I finally figured it out that it was the couch. A shot in the dark, but maybe you are having the same problem with the a gas fireplace picking up fumes? Also check your polarities, it does happen time to time that you mix them up.
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Old 02-09-2015, 03:51 AM
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I've had lots of different pairs of new speakers and never had a burning smell with then, that doesn't sound normal at all.
Agreed. You sure it isn't nearby electronics (still not good but isolate the root cause)? The only thing I could think of is the cross over in the speaker but I have never smelled that from speakers and don't recall reading about it from other members. If it is indeed the speakers, that is not normal.
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Old 02-09-2015, 04:04 AM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
I don't think that is normal.

Are you sure it is from the speakers and not the AVR/amp?

I know I could smell the paint/finish on my 228's for a few days after setting them up, but don't recall it smelling like somethjng burning.

Interesting that your AVR set the 212's to full range. Mine get set to 60hz but are about 28 inches from the wall. How close are yours to the wall behind them?
Mine are 10 or 12" from the wall.

I definitely smelled a strong smell coming from the speakers last night after I played them for about an hour. They sounded good but this afternoon
I will play them in stereo and investigate further. Btw, my wife smelled it too, a strong smell when I was within a couple or 3 feet from them.
Not sure if it had to do with the paint somehow but they didn't smell that strong until after they had been running.

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Old 02-09-2015, 04:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
As Ray said brand new JTR's do a have a paint finish on them and they do have a smell for a little while, I like it myself. Just out of curiosity, do you have a gas fireplace in the room? I know I had a couch delivered years ago and they sprayed the couch and the gas fireplace was picking up the spray and made a burning smell in the room. We called the gas company and they came out and did an inspection and nothing, but could still smell the burning. I finally figured it out that it was the couch. A shot in the dark, but maybe you are having the same problem with the a gas fireplace picking up fumes? Also check your polarities, it does happen time to time that you mix them up.
No gas, all electric. Polarities, I checked and they are correct. A little worried about this, it definetly had a burning type smell.

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Old 02-09-2015, 04:17 AM
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No gas, all electric. Polarities, I checked and they are correct. A little worried about this, it definetly had a burning type smell.
My 212s I Received about 2 weeks ago had a weird smell for about 3 days. It was not a burning smell exactly but that would be the closet I could describe it. I thought maybe I was knocking the dust off my other equipment since I have never listened to any speaker at the levels I was playing. It was coming out at the CD exit but No smell now!!! These did not have the strong paint odor this time either.

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Old 02-09-2015, 05:06 AM
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My 212s I Received about 2 weeks ago had a weird smell for about 3 days. It was not a burning smell exactly but that would be the closet I could describe it. I thought maybe I was knocking the dust off my other equipment since I have never listened to any speaker at the levels I was playing. It was coming out at the CD exit but No smell now!!! These did not have the strong paint odor this time.
Same here with my 215's. Not sure if it was a burning smell but there was some type of odor but it did go away. I also had a little bit of stuffing (the denim insulation) come blowing out of the bottom port. Scared the snot out of me because I thought it was a big bug of some sort. Give it some time....if it doesn't go away call Jeff.
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Old 02-09-2015, 05:14 AM
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Originally Posted by rangers View Post
Mine are 10 or 12" from the wall.

I definitely smelled a strong smell coming from the speakers last night after I played them for about an hour. They sounded good but this afternoon
I will play them in stereo and investigate further. Btw, my wife smelled it too, a strong smell when I was within a couple or 3 feet from them.
Not sure if it had to do with the paint somehow but they didn't smell that strong until after they had been running.
Is coming from 1 speaker or all 3?

Mine have a slight chemical smell that's kind of strange for speakers, but not a burning smell.

You could remove the drivers to try to see where the smell is coming from. It could be a driver or crossover.

Watch out, because when you unscrew the drivers and tilt it on its side, sometimes they fall out, and they're surprisingly heavy.
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Old 02-09-2015, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rangers View Post
I just listened to a BluRay multichannel concert. Briefly hit high levels, now I smell like a burning smell of some sort
when I get near the speakers (brand new 212s). Is this what they mean by speaker burn in? Anyone else had this happen?

They play fine.
Just call Jeff. Aside from the finish and noses being such subjective eaters, that doesn't sound normal. Jeff tests the crap out of every speaker that leaves his warehouse, so I doubt it's a defective part toasting away... but anything is possible.

And keep an extinguisher near your MLP in the meantime.
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Old 02-09-2015, 05:31 AM
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Burning smell from the speakers could also be a voice coil. A voice coil can melt pretty fast if the internal wiring is not right.

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Old 02-09-2015, 06:03 AM
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Hmm, I'd like to experiment on that myself. As I can manually mute the subs through the Antimode. I have a few dts demo disk myself. 2012 and 2013. Do you remember which one you had?
I can't remember where the online one was... I looked for it again and didn't find it. I do have the WOW disk, I'll try that too and see if the same thing happens.
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Old 02-09-2015, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
My experience so far has been that once you have good subs properly integrated, small mode always sounds better.

It's really about the end result, not how you get there, though.

The trouble with large mains + subs is that the phase may not match at some frequencies, and they can cancel each other out.
That kind of problem should show up in a frequency response graph, if you are having them.

Marcus may not agree with this, but it's possible to do things the "wrong" way that has potential problems, and to get lucky and still get good results.

Thanks -

The frequency response on a graph (omnimic) indeed does look bad when running large mains + subs, but after dialing in the distance settings of the subs it looks great, and I can get a smoother response throughout the room that way - so far anyway, I don't think I'll ever be done experimenting so I'm not done with trying the mains as small and am open to the idea that it might be better in my room.
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Old 02-09-2015, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
Thanks -

The frequency response on a graph (omnimic) indeed does look bad when running large mains + subs, but after dialing in the distance settings of the subs it looks great, and I can get a smoother response throughout the room that way - so far anyway, I don't think I'll ever be done experimenting so I'm not done with trying the mains as small and am open to the idea that it might be better in my room.
Good is good, and in some cases it can work.

The most problematic place once you have them time aligned will be near the high pass frequencies, since that can shift phase differently with frequency for different designs (ported, sealed, different filters). Do you still have 8x 18" sealed subs?
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Old 02-09-2015, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rangers View Post
I just listened to a BluRay multichannel concert. Briefly hit high levels, now I smell like a burning smell of some sort
when I get near the speakers (brand new 212s). Is this what they mean by speaker burn in? Anyone else had this happen?

They play fine.
Both your AVR (or SSP) setting the 212's to large and this burning smell are weird. Try running Audyssey again till it gets it right. I've never seen Audyssey set the 212's x-over at less than 60Hz and burning smells are not part of a normal speaker burn in unless as PI suggests, you have a fried VC.

Opinions are not facts.
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Old 02-09-2015, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post
My 212s I Received about 2 weeks ago had a weird smell for about 3 days. It was not a burning smell exactly but that would be the closet I could describe it. I thought maybe I was knocking the dust off my other equipment since I have never listened to any speaker at the levels I was playing. It was coming out at the CD exit but No smell now!!! These did not have the strong paint odor this time.
What did your AVR set your cover at for your 212's?
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