Official JTR speaker thread - Page 954 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #28591 of 28620 Old Today, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by DotJun View Post
Hmm that changes things for the emotiva then, thanks!



Ok that makes sense. I keep forgetting the processing is done before receiver and not after.

Oh it's the codec that does it in real time, not jriver, in case it mattered to you.
In the case of MP3, it's in the codec, and there's no way to bitstream that over HDMI.
In the case of DTS or DSD, JRiver gives you the option of converting to PCM or sending the original bitstream out HDMI.
If you set JRiver to convert to PCM, rather than bitstream, you can do DSP before it hits your receiver.
For example, JRiver's DSP, Dirac Live for PC, or a nanoAVR-DL.

The missing link is Atmos, since JRiver doesn't support it, yet, and Dirac Live is currently limited to 8 channels.

I'm using JRiver to convert everything to PCM + Dirac Live for PC, and just using my receiver for time alignment and gain.
If you have an XMC-1 with Dirac, you could do all your processing in the XMC-1 and just set JRiver to bitstream.
The main advantage of this approach is that it supports more sources besides a PC.
If you have multiple subs with different distances, the XMC-1 doesn't properly time align multiple subs, so you'd have to do that manually with delay knobs on the sub amp plates, or else use a miniDSP in addition to an XMC-1.
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post #28592 of 28620 Old Today, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by countryWV View Post
The Cap 1400 has a smaller less expensive ICEpower amp. I believe it is offered as a cheaper alternative (around ($1999) to the 2400 but not a replacement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
There is less than a 2db difference.
Right. I just didn't see the cap 2400 on the website and thought that this newer version is replacing it. Good price for only a 2 db loss. I am sure many will get duals with the pre order being so cheap.
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post #28593 of 28620 Old Today, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post
Right. I just didn't see the cap 2400 on the website and thought that this newer version is replacing it. Good price for only a 2 db loss. I am sure many will get duals with the pre order being so cheap.
For a $600 to $1000 (pre-order) savings with only a 2 db loss maybe the 2400 is on the way out. It would be hard to justify spending $2599 to gain 2 db in home theater application.

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post #28594 of 28620 Old Today, 10:57 AM
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Just saw that Tidal had a huge "Re-debut" last night with all kinds of artists signing up for support of the service, Madonna, Jay-Z (Who apparently owns it and I had no idea), Deadmau5, Daft Punk, Beyonce, etc. Pretty cool. Still not sure what it brings to the table over Deezer which is cheaper each month, but this really could catapult HiRez music into the homes of more people, which is pretty killer

Hey @carp , you still enjoying tidal?
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post #28595 of 28620 Old Today, 11:05 AM
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What do you guys think of slanted 8's as overhead speakers in an Atmos/DTS:X/Auro setup? I don't plan on making the move till next year sometime but thinking ahead about the speakers I could use as overheads. I don't know if the s8's have the correct dispersion pattern but if they do, I'm thinking I'll move my s8's to overhead and replace them with something else from the JTR line-up....maybe 228's...who knows.


Let me know what you guys all think about that.


Thanks,

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post #28596 of 28620 Old Today, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
JJay-Z (Who apparently pioneered it and I had no idea)
Tidal (WiMP) was started 5 years ago by Aspiro as WiMP music. Jay-Z just purchased Aspiro this month. WiMP is the service used in most of the European countries and Tidal is the service used in the US, UK, Canada, and a few European countries.

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Tidal was started 5 years ago by Aspiro as WiMP music. Jay-Z just purchased Aspiro last month. WiMP is the name used in most of the European countries and Tidal is the name used in the US, UK, and Canada.
How did I know you would come in and school me on the info?

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post #28598 of 28620 Old Today, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
In the case of MP3, it's in the codec, and there's no way to bitstream that over HDMI.
In the case of DTS or DSD, JRiver gives you the option of converting to PCM or sending the original bitstream out HDMI.
If you set JRiver to convert to PCM, rather than bitstream, you can do DSP before it hits your receiver.
For example, JRiver's DSP, Dirac Live for PC, or a nanoAVR-DL.

The missing link is Atmos, since JRiver doesn't support it, yet, and Dirac Live is currently limited to 8 channels.

I'm using JRiver to convert everything to PCM + Dirac Live for PC, and just using my receiver for time alignment and gain.
If you have an XMC-1 with Dirac, you could do all your processing in the XMC-1 and just set JRiver to bitstream.
The main advantage of this approach is that it supports more sources besides a PC.
If you have multiple subs with different distances, the XMC-1 doesn't properly time align multiple subs, so you'd have to do that manually with delay knobs on the sub amp plates, or else use a miniDSP in addition to an XMC-1.

What? Everything is in codec and you can bitstream anything that the end product can decode with its own codecs. For example, you can bitstream flac if your end product can decode it. Pretty sure denon can bitstream MP3/aac since they can play them straight from a network drive right?

I understand why jriver needs the audio to be PCM before it runs any processing and that reason most likely is due to cost. It's free to work on PCM but it would cost a license fee to do so on dts for example. AFAIK jriver doesn't use its own set of codecs right? It uses ffdshow or LAV?
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post #28599 of 28620 Old Today, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
How did I know you would come in and school me on the info?
Yeah, but I was wrong. He didn't purchase it until this month although the intial offer was done in January.
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post #28600 of 28620 Old Today, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by DotJun View Post
It's free to work on PCM but it would cost a license fee to do so on dts for example. AFAIK jriver doesn't use its own set of codecs right? It uses ffdshow or LAV?
Everything works on PCM - even a receiver. All audio is decoded to PCM prior to any DSP. LAV is developed by Hendrik Leppkes, one of JRiver's programmers. It is provided as open source for other less fortunate programs.
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Just saw that Tidal had a huge "Re-debut" last night with all kinds of artists signing up for support of the service, Madonna, Jay-Z (Who apparently owns it and I had no idea), Deadmau5, Daft Punk, Beyonce, etc. Pretty cool. Still not sure what it brings to the table over Deezer which is cheaper each month, but this really could catapult HiRez music into the homes of more people, which is pretty killer

Hey @carp , you still enjoying tidal?
They're offering 'normal' quality streaming for $9.99 now, along with the $19.99 lossless. I canceled my tidal subscription after 6 weeks to try amazon music, which is included with my prime membership already.

---------------------------------------------------------------
gear: 3x JTR 212HT ~ 4x JTR 8LP ~ 2x JTR Orbit Shifter LFU ~ 11x Elemental Designs eD6c ~ Marantz SR7008 ~ Panasonic PT-AE8000U ~ Elite 176" 2.35 ATS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabs17 View Post
What do you guys think of slanted 8's as overhead speakers in an Atmos/DTS:X/Auro setup? I don't plan on making the move till next year sometime but thinking ahead about the speakers I could use as overheads. I don't know if the s8's have the correct dispersion pattern but if they do, I'm thinking I'll move my s8's to overhead and replace them with something else from the JTR line-up....maybe 228's...who knows.


Let me know what you guys all think about that.


Thanks,
The Slanted 8 gives you the ability to aim the speaker at the LP. It would be a great Atmos speaker.

I think a combination of 4 Slanted 8s with 4 Single 8-lp (7" depth) would be a perfect surround/Atmos combination. The Slanted 8 could be used as rear surrounds and front ceiling Atmos while the S8-lp could be used as side surrounds and rear ceiling Atmos.
or
4 Slanted 8 surrounds with the 4 S8-lp as ceiling Atmos or depending on ceiling height vice-versa. The S8 series is versatile but expensive (well worth the price). Now would be good time to save 20%.

Chris


For Sale: LCR X 3 2012 JTR Triple 12 Excellent condition
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-au...iple-12-a.html

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post
What? Everything is in codec and you can bitstream anything that the end product can decode with its own codecs. For example, you can bitstream flac if your end product can decode it. Pretty sure denon can bitstream MP3/aac since they can play them straight from a network drive right?

I understand why jriver needs the audio to be PCM before it runs any processing and that reason most likely is due to cost. It's free to work on PCM but it would cost a license fee to do so on dts for example. AFAIK jriver doesn't use its own set of codecs right? It uses ffdshow or LAV?
It's not that JRiver can't decode them. On the contrary, it gives you the flexibility to do what you want. You choose:
1) Source DTS bitstream -> PCM -> JRiver DSP -> HDMI -> Receiver -> DAC
2) Source DTS bitstream -> HDMI -> Receiver -> PCM -> DAC

#1 also works on devices that don't have built-in decoders, like a miniAVR-DL.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabs17 View Post
What do you guys think of slanted 8's as overhead speakers in an Atmos/DTS:X/Auro setup? I don't plan on making the move till next year sometime but thinking ahead about the speakers I could use as overheads. I don't know if the s8's have the correct dispersion pattern but if they do, I'm thinking I'll move my s8's to overhead and replace them with something else from the JTR line-up....maybe 228's...who knows.


Let me know what you guys all think about that.


Thanks,
I have my rear Slanted 8s mounted in the ceiling and I'm happy with them. I think they work well.
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post #28605 of 28620 Old Today, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post
Right. I just didn't see the cap 2400 on the website and thought that this newer version is replacing it. Good price for only a 2 db loss. I am sure many will get duals with the pre order being so cheap.
I did ask this question over on the JTR forum and "yes" the 1400 will be replacing the 2400. Answered by Jeff.

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post #28606 of 28620 Old Today, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
I have my rear Slanted 8s mounted in the ceiling and I'm happy with them. I think they work well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post
The Slanted 8 gives you the ability to aim the speaker at the LP. It would be a great Atmos speaker.

I think a combination of 4 Slanted 8s with 4 Single 8-lp (7" depth) would be a perfect surround/Atmos combination. The Slanted 8 could be used as rear surrounds and front ceiling Atmos while the S8-lp could be used as side surrounds and rear ceiling Atmos.
or
4 Slanted 8 surrounds with the 4 S8-lp as ceiling Atmos or depending on ceiling height vice-versa. The S8 series is versatile but expensive. Now would be good time to save 20%.
This is exactly what I was thinking and why I asked. It would appear with the 30 degree baffle these would make perfect overheads. I was also thinking about the 8lp's as replacements for the lower layer. It definitely isn't the cheapest way to implement 3d sound but what in this hobby is???
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Just saw that Tidal had a huge "Re-debut" last night with all kinds of artists signing up for support of the service, Madonna, Jay-Z (Who apparently owns it and I had no idea), Deadmau5, Daft Punk, Beyonce, etc. Pretty cool. Still not sure what it brings to the table over Deezer which is cheaper each month, but this really could catapult HiRez music into the homes of more people, which is pretty killer

Hey @carp , you still enjoying tidal?

I went away from it for a couple months and just used google play, which I really like. Google Play is just like Spotify as far as catalog size but the radio has way more variety.

I ditched Tidal because Tim @stitch1 and I did a blind test between google play and Tidal and I couldn't tell the difference with immediate switching.

However, I went back to Tidal a couple weeks ago just to try it again. I swear that over LONG listening sessions it does make a difference. With Google Play it still sounds great and doesn't get harsh but I can walk away. With Tidal it's hard to make myself turn it off and go to sleep.

Like anything it could be placebo, but it could be that people are on to something when they say your ears won't notice immediate differences but your brain will over long periods of time.

Who knows.. either way Tidal is great but I'm still going to use Google Play for the much larger amount of artists and great radio.

30 bucks a month for basically any song I would ever want is pretty crazy cheap when you think about how things were when we were growing up!!
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post #28608 of 28620 Old Today, 02:18 PM
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Official JTR speaker thread

I'm joining the JTR fan club.



I heard the 210rt this weekend at the Iowa GTG and had an "Oh. My. God." moment. I'm a DIY guy because I love building speakers and have a limited budget for the many, many things I want, but these are the first speakers that I have heard that I would buy over building something. I have heard the 228, 212ht, 215rt, Caps, OS, so I have had the chance to enjoy some of the JTR lineup. The 215rt is the best full range speaker that I have ever heard, but is unobtanium for me because of the size and price. I have never considered buying anything other than a car in that price range. Right away, walking in to the room at the GTG at dlbeck's house, I heard music playing and immediately thought "oh, I like that - that's exactly what I like in a speaker." Then BAM, Jeff plays a track with some tribal drums banging away and my head exploded. It was awesome! I naturally glanced around the room for the sub and realized that they were running full range. I have been chasing building a "chest punch" speaker that fits in a "normal" sized tower after listening to Carp's 215s and the 210 has it.



The 210rt at low levels has a comfortable, smooth and incredibly detailed response that remains dynamic along with authoritative bass that doesn't overwhelm the mids and highs, or vice versa. The really cool part is that none of it lagged or peaked as the levels increased to war volume. The midbass hammered away and the upper range remained intact without becoming uncomfortable on my overly sensitive ears. I prefer the sound of the 210 over the 215, maybe because of the smaller 10" mid-bass driver or the upgraded coaxial CD in the horn, probably both.



I am a ULF junkie (two Gjallarhorns in my kitchen ceiling) and would run subs with any speaker because there is never enough bass for my taste. Two of these and a nearfield sub for 5-40hz would be my ideal 2 channel listening system. Each speaker presents to each person in a unique way that only that listener can appreciate, and this one appeals to me in a way that is everything I like about a speaker. Sadly, I don't have the budget for them any time soon, but wanted to share my listening impressions about this awesome design.Click image for larger version

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post #28609 of 28620 Old Today, 03:33 PM
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That's a couple of people that has raved about that 210. Now I want to hear it.
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post #28610 of 28620 Old Today, 03:55 PM
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And more thumbs up for the 210RT from the Des Moines Crawl.

It was nice being able to sit down and really listen to the 210 (and 212's) at the get together.
There is just something very appealing about the 210's sound. Music sounded great on it, Metallica near the end of the night was very nice.
Seeing them turned up to very high levels and not sounding harsh at all, just completely composed, and very impressive.

They just made my mind up on JTR speakers for me =)
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post #28611 of 28620 Old Today, 04:25 PM
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I am happy that the 210RT finally came out from the woodwork and made an appearance. I have wanted to hear the 210RT for quite some time and at one point I was going to go with them and then winded up going with the 215's. Be great to have a pair of 210RT's in KC!!
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I am happy that the 210RT finally came out from the woodwork and made an appearance. I have wanted to hear the 210RT for quite some time and at one point I was going to go with them and then winded up going with the 215's. Be great to have a pair of 210RT's in KC!!
Jeff says he can't, he's taking that pair to Axpona (sp?) but he wants to send us a pair of 212 TT's.
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post #28613 of 28620 Unread Today, 05:13 PM
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Jeff says he can't, he's taking that pair to Axpona (sp?) but he wants to send us a pair of 212 TT's.
That sounds cool! I thought I heard him say that he was sending speakers to KC, I thought maybe somebody was taking delivery though.
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Its sharing with other devices: Denon AVR-971 (older model), Directv, apple tv, and tv. No second sub. I've got a 4520CI coming in next week, which i know will require more power than the current avr.

There is a 20A circuit nearby, but I will need an extension cord to get to it, since I have only one location to place the sub. I will try to move it there. Have you plugged the sub directly into the wall outlet or do you have it through a surge protector? Instead of an extension cord, I was thinking if I have to use a surge protector, I can get one with a longer power cord, and run that to the 20A circuit.

Also the clip light actually comes on only when the content below 10 Hz is being played, for e.g on the bass I love you, I beleive it goes down to 5-7 Hz, I can see the drivers moving quite a bit then (and cant hear/feel much), but they also distort during this time.
Yes..depending how much dbs your trying to hit. 100+ @10hz> will require lots and I mean lots of power and energy to achieve that. Multiples is the way to go without having the power from the outlet, to amp, to the driver working close to there limits. And the S2 will dig deep without hesitation drawing all the power it needs. And you need to feed it or them.Getting the S2 on that 20 amp cuircut will help much.
Thanks! I'll try that. Just got a heavy duty 12 gauge ext cord to see if the 20a outlet works fine, then most likely will get a longer powercon cord. These things are available at limited places online.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d_c View Post
I'm joining the JTR fan club.



I heard the 210rt this weekend at the Iowa GTG and had an "Oh. My. God." moment. I'm a DIY guy because I love building speakers and have a limited budget for the many, many things I want, but these are the first speakers that I have heard that I would buy over building something. I have heard the 228, 212ht, 215rt, Caps, OS, so I have had the chance to enjoy some of the JTR lineup. The 215rt is the best full range speaker that I have ever heard, but is unobtanium for me because of the size and price. I have never considered buying anything other than a car in that price range. Right away, walking in to the room at the GTG at dlbeck's house, I heard music playing and immediately thought "oh, I like that - that's exactly what I like in a speaker." Then BAM, Jeff plays a track with some tribal drums banging away and my head exploded. It was awesome! I naturally glanced around the room for the sub and realized that they were running full range. I have been chasing building a "chest punch" speaker that fits in a "normal" sized tower after listening to Carp's 215s and the 210 has it.



The 210rt at low levels has a comfortable, smooth and incredibly detailed response that remains dynamic along with authoritative bass that doesn't overwhelm the mids and highs, or vice versa. The really cool part is that none of it lagged or peaked as the levels increased to war volume. The midbass hammered away and the upper range remained intact without becoming uncomfortable on my overly sensitive ears. I prefer the sound of the 210 over the 215, maybe because of the smaller 10" mid-bass driver or the upgraded coaxial CD in the horn, probably both.



I am a ULF junkie (two Gjallarhorns in my kitchen ceiling) and would run subs with any speaker because there is never enough bass for my taste. Two of these and a nearfield sub for 5-40hz would be my ideal 2 channel listening system. Each speaker presents to each person in a unique way that only that listener can appreciate, and this one appeals to me in a way that is everything I like about a speaker. Sadly, I don't have the budget for them any time soon, but wanted to share my listening impressions about this awesome design.[iurl="http://www.avsforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=638273&d=1427836928"][/iurl]

Great info! I had been searching this forum for any feedback from 210rt owners but found almost none. This has made up my mind now and is a no brainer at just a couple of hundred more than the 212.

I think these matched with a 212 center would be awesome.

Initially i was considering 212hts but there was concern arnd the mid bass section. I was set on getting those any how. But now with this info and carps feedback its clear what i will be getting some time in the future. Still working on taming the S2 so one beast at a time

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Originally Posted by d_c View Post
I'm joining the JTR fan club.

I heard the 210rt this weekend at the Iowa GTG and had an "Oh. My. God." moment. I'm a DIY guy because I love building speakers and have a limited budget for the many, many things I want, but these are the first speakers that I have heard that I would buy over building something. I have heard the 228, 212ht, 215rt, Caps, OS, so I have had the chance to enjoy some of the JTR lineup. The 215rt is the best full range speaker that I have ever heard, but is unobtanium for me because of the size and price. I have never considered buying anything other than a car in that price range. Right away, walking in to the room at the GTG at dlbeck's house, I heard music playing and immediately thought "oh, I like that - that's exactly what I like in a speaker." Then BAM, Jeff plays a track with some tribal drums banging away and my head exploded. It was awesome! I naturally glanced around the room for the sub and realized that they were running full range. I have been chasing building a "chest punch" speaker that fits in a "normal" sized tower after listening to Carp's 215s and the 210 has it.


The 210rt at low levels has a comfortable, smooth and incredibly detailed response that remains dynamic along with authoritative bass that doesn't overwhelm the mids and highs, or vice versa. The really cool part is that none of it lagged or peaked as the levels increased to war volume. The midbass hammered away and the upper range remained intact without becoming uncomfortable on my overly sensitive ears. I prefer the sound of the 210 over the 215, maybe because of the smaller 10" mid-bass driver or the upgraded coaxial CD in the horn, probably both.

I am a ULF junkie (two Gjallarhorns in my kitchen ceiling) and would run subs with any speaker because there is never enough bass for my taste. Two of these and a nearfield sub for 5-40hz would be my ideal 2 channel listening system. Each speaker presents to each person in a unique way that only that listener can appreciate, and this one appeals to me in a way that is everything I like about a speaker. Sadly, I don't have the budget for them any time soon, but wanted to share my listening impressions about this awesome design.Attachment 638273
Thanks so much for sharing. I've long been curious about the 210RT, but I've read so little about them. They're now on my short list for my next set.

I have a question about the center to match with them. Why would one choose the 210RM over the other choices? It only claims an F3 of 80hz with 95db w/1w sensitivity. I'm assuming this is because it is sealed instead of ported like most of the other jtr designs. I'm just wondering what are its advantages over a a 212HT or even a 228HT.
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Originally Posted by cmryan821 View Post
Thanks so much for sharing. I've long been curious about the 210RT, but I've read so little about them. They're now on my short list for my next set.

I have a question about the center to match with them. Why would one choose the 210RM over the other choices? It only claims an F3 of 80hz with 95db w/1w sensitivity. I'm assuming this is because it is sealed instead of ported like most of the other jtr designs. I'm just wondering what are its advantages over a a 212HT or even a 228HT.
I'm not familiar with the 210RM but the sealed 212HT-LP also is listed as down to 80 Hz. I love the upper-end and midrange on my sealed 212HT-LP but wish I had known to purchase the ported 212HT with its stronger midbass. In comparing the sealed vs ported 212s at Frohlich's house, there is about a 6 db difference between the two from about 175 Hz down. So I'd suggest either the 212HT for the stronger midbass or if you want a really capable center channel that can hang with your 210RTs...and can swing more dollars and the size, the 215RM is one of my favorites in the JTR lineup.
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post #28618 of 28620 Unread Today, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmryan821 View Post
Thanks so much for sharing. I've long been curious about the 210RT, but I've read so little about them. They're now on my short list for my next set.

I have a question about the center to match with them. Why would one choose the 210RM over the other choices? It only claims an F3 of 80hz with 95db w/1w sensitivity. I'm assuming this is because it is sealed instead of ported like most of the other jtr designs. I'm just wondering what are its advantages over a a 212HT or even a 228HT.
I recall Jeff saying the little 10" woofer in the 210's is a very special driver. Based upon the early reviews I'd say that is true and so the 210RM might just be a perfect horizontal match for L&R 210RT's. I'm an AT screen and matching LCR's kind of person but that said, I would try and keep the front soundstage as timbre matched as possible. The fact Jeff has 9 cabinets and parts ready to go at a discounted price would be an additional incentive.

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post #28619 of 28620 Unread Today, 09:27 PM
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Wish the 210rt could work aesthetically in my family room

---------------------------------------------------------------
gear: 3x JTR 212HT ~ 4x JTR 8LP ~ 2x JTR Orbit Shifter LFU ~ 11x Elemental Designs eD6c ~ Marantz SR7008 ~ Panasonic PT-AE8000U ~ Elite 176" 2.35 ATS
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I've haven't heard any other of the JTR speakers. Though just read good things about most of em. And there's no doubt the 210's are outstanding speakers too. Jeff really knows his stuff.
On a side note.. I just watched Intersteller with the family this evening. This movie with a great sound track just pushes the the dynamics of the front stage. Just huge. And the bass? Lots of it! Really, really pressurized the room. Then, I got that nauseated feeling again. Thought was just all in my mind. But my wife and daughter felt sick too. I had to turn it down a few dbs. My teenage boy is the only one didn't feel sick. I still cant explain why.. Good movie though..
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