Official JTR speaker thread - Page 967 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #28981 of 29002 Old Yesterday, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
I don't know if the file is 90 degrees or not, I used the calibration file for the omnimic. I did point the mic straight forward towards the speakers.
A 0 degree file is calibrated to be aimed directly at the speaker.
A 90 degree file is calibrated to be aimed straight up or straight down, at a 90 degree angle to the speaker.
A 45 degree file is calibrated to be aimed at 45 degrees to the speaker.

The difference is that there is some treble rolloff in the measurement when the mic is at an angle to the speaker, so the calibration file needs to compensate for that.

If you take a 0 degree file and use it at 45 degrees to the speaker, it won't compensate enough, so it will show that you have less treble than you really do.
If you take a 90 degree file and use it at 45 degrees to the speaker, it will compensate too much, so it will show that you have more treble than you really do.

This is only important for getting an accurate measurement.
I was just suspicious, since you said you liked the treble sloping up.
Since your goal is really to make it sound good, not necessarily to get an accurate measurement, just do what sounds good.

When doing surround sound room EQ, you ideally want a 90 degree calibration file, and to aim the mic straight up, so you are getting correct and consistent measurements from all speakers.

I'm not sure how people are calibrating Atmos setups.
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post #28982 of 29002 Old Yesterday, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by quack724 View Post
Rob, I looked back at my PMs (don't have that many). I think we were suppose to meet up after new years in 2013 but never did. In any case, you are always welcome to come over for a demo any time ! Just PM some preferred dates/times
Hey Warren,

Thanks for the invite and I was just messin with you. I'm happy that Dirac has done a good job for you. It's interesting especially considering that you have an engineered room and still find Dirac made such dramatic changes. I may have to give it a try at some point but that point isn't now.

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post #28983 of 29002 Old Yesterday, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by quack724 View Post
I've been away from this thread for quite a long time.

I posted my impressions with Dirac Live in the miniDSP DDRC-88a thread . In summary, it has really made my JTR set up sound the way I originally envisioned the JTRs to sound when I first got them close to three years ago. Up until the miniDSP, I had thought my JTR set up sounded "OK" but there were quite a few things that were off. For me, the miniDSP has been the most significant audio upgrade. I am still in disbelief on how much better my system sounds.

Here is my curve for my T12s, S8s, and two Cap S1s:
I definitely agree with your assessment. For me, this is up there with changing speakers for the magnitude of improvement.

Looking at your graph, it looks like you are still getting a 5db difference at 20khz. That suggests to me that you may want to experiment with angling your speakers toward the MLP to get more consistent response across your LCRs.
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post #28984 of 29002 Old Yesterday, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Nabs17 View Post
That last sentence is significant to me because I'm like Rob in that I don't want lots of "things" in my signal path. I didn't terminate my speaker wires at the walls (my equipment is in another room) because I wanted the signal straight from the amp with no break but your last sentence is very intriguing and makes me think about trying Dirac if it can be that transparent.
Yeah, it can actually cancel out linear distortions introduced by amps, wire resistance, crossovers, drivers, horns, the room, etc. Also, the EQ doesn't seem to introduce the problems that I normally associate with EQ. So, when you compare when Dirac is on or off, it sounds to me like a bunch of stuff gets removed when you turn it on. This is coming from someone who previously avoided EQ, due to similar minimalism. I always felt like Audyssey added muddiness.

It's very dependent on the target curve, though. It's easy to make awful sounding target curves. The minimalist approach would be to follow the existing curve of your speakers, to just correct problems, rather than add EQ. I'd encourage you to start from there, and then start experimenting with EQ, because you can probably find something that sounds even better.

That said, it doesn't do so well if you try to push drivers beyond their limits. Trying to extend the bass of small speakers will quickly bottom out the drivers. Trying to extend the treble on tweeters just amplifies distortion, and sounds awful.
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post #28985 of 29002 Old Yesterday, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
I'm really liking what I tried tonight. The bass is similar to what you are saying but I also did a slight boost to the treble curving upwards from 8khz up rising gently towards 20k. I know that's supposed to be all wrong but for me it sounds great. If I don't do this the midrange is too prominent and it sound kind of dead.
Wait, you are using an omnimic with the dirac software?

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post #28986 of 29002 Old Yesterday, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
A 0 degree file is calibrated to be aimed directly at the speaker.
A 90 degree file is calibrated to be aimed straight up or straight down, at a 90 degree angle to the speaker.
A 45 degree file is calibrated to be aimed at 45 degrees to the speaker.

The difference is that there is some treble rolloff in the measurement when the mic is at an angle to the speaker, so the calibration file needs to compensate for that.

If you take a 0 degree file and use it at 45 degrees to the speaker, it won't compensate enough, so it will show that you have less treble than you really do.
If you take a 90 degree file and use it at 45 degrees to the speaker, it will compensate too much, so it will show that you have more treble than you really do.

This is only important for getting an accurate measurement.
I was just suspicious, since you said you liked the treble sloping up.
Since your goal is really to make it sound good, not necessarily to get an accurate measurement, just do what sounds good.

When doing surround sound room EQ, you ideally want a 90 degree calibration file, and to aim the mic straight up, so you are getting correct and consistent measurements from all speakers.

I'm not sure how people are calibrating Atmos setups.

Ahhh ok thanks for the explanation. Does anyone know what degree file the Omnimic calibration file is?
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post #28987 of 29002 Old Yesterday, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Wait, you are using an omnimic with the dirac software?
Yes it lets you load the calibration file from the Omnimic so you can use it to measure. Pretty cool.
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post #28988 of 29002 Old Yesterday, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Wait, you are using an omnimic with the dirac software?
It works with any standard Windows recording device and standard calibration files. I think the Emotiva Dirac LE and the MiniDSP versions lock you to their mics, but not the standard version.
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post #28989 of 29002 Old Yesterday, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
Ahhh ok thanks for the explanation. Does anyone know what degree file the Omnimic calibration file is?
This thread says that the Omnimic file is a 0 degree file:
Dayton OmniMic Precision Measurement System

For surround use, you'd need to use the 90 degree orientation. You could just keep that in mind when designing the target curve, or you could buy a mic that includes a 90 degree file.
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post #28990 of 29002 Old Yesterday, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
I don't know if the file is 90 degrees or not, I used the calibration file for the omnimic. I did point the mic straight forward towards the speakers.
The Omnimic calibration is 0 degrees and is for a freefield measurement. Since most measurements of a room are diffuse field, I feel it is best to apply a 90 degree correction to the Omnimic - especially if you are going to be drawing a target different than the measured response or doing any EQ above 10,000 Hz. Alternatively, just let your target follow the measurement above 10,000 Hz and don't worry about whether the measurement is correct or not.

You need to use the graph provided in the Omnimic manual to create your own 90 degree correction file.

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post #28991 of 29002 Old Yesterday, 04:48 PM
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JTR Speakers is exhibiting at Axpona Audio Fest this weekend at The Westin O'hare, Chicago IL in room 418.
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post #28992 of 29002 Old Yesterday, 05:12 PM
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JTR Speakers is exhibiting at Axpona Audio Fest this weekend at The Westin O'hare, Chicago IL in room 418.
See you tomorrow, Jeff!

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post #28993 of 29002 Old Today, 03:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
JTR Speakers is exhibiting at Axpona Audio Fest this weekend at The Westin O'hare, Chicago IL in room 418.
Have fun!
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post #28994 of 29002 Old Today, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
JTR Speakers is exhibiting at Axpona Audio Fest this weekend at The Westin O'hare, Chicago IL in room 418.
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See you tomorrow, Jeff!
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Have fun!

I wanted to go this year, but it didn't work out for me, I hope next year I will be able to make it.
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post #28995 of 29002 Old Today, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
JTR Speakers is exhibiting at Axpona Audio Fest this weekend at The Westin O'hare, Chicago IL in room 418.
Showing the 210RT?

What's the setup?

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post #28996 of 29002 Old Today, 08:19 AM
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Yes, the Noesis 210RT. Using the Oppo 95 and a SpeakerPower 1000w x2 amplifier.
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post #28997 of 29002 Old Today, 08:27 AM
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Yes, the Noesis 210RT. Using the Oppo 95 and a SpeakerPower 1000w x2 amplifier.
Using subs and redirecting bass or full range? Not sure if you are aware of the oppo issue with redirecting bass to the LFE channel when used as a processor. It clips the dog poo out of the signal at virtually any volume....

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post #28998 of 29002 Old Today, 09:00 AM
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Using subs and redirecting bass or full range? Not sure if you are aware of the oppo issue with redirecting bass to the LFE channel when used as a processor. It clips the dog poo out of the signal at virtually any volume....
Pretty sure they will be run full range or he would be needing more hardware.

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post #28999 of 29002 Unread Today, 11:10 AM
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Yes, the Noesis 210RT. Using the Oppo 95 and a SpeakerPower 1000w x2 amplifier.
That amp looks interesting, Any info on that?

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post #29000 of 29002 Unread Today, 11:31 AM
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That amp looks interesting, Any info on that?

Im going to take a guess but I think Jeff's probably using one of the 2-channel rack mount amps.
http://www.speakerpower.net/rack-mount-models.html
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post #29001 of 29002 Unread Today, 01:18 PM
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210's sound fantastic. Really make me want to upgrade.

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post #29002 of 29002 Unread Today, 02:32 PM
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Jeff:

Any plans for a 8" or 6.5" version of the RT/MT designs? Same for a 12" Capivator S1/S2 or 8" S2. I'd be all over a full set for an Atmos/DTS:X install if such beasts existed.

Some of us live in condos and/or have smaller rooms.
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