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post #29161 of 30542 Old 05-04-2015, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
Thus is true but I am talking subs now Rob, not mains I have had many ported subs, different brands, sizes and to this day, no music has sounded better in my network than my Triax's. I also liked the S2's.
There is no difference to whether you call it a main or a sub if it plays the same frequencies. Each 215RT, with enough power, is almost equivalent to a single ported Captivator. RMK was using his center 215RT as a sub for two-channel content when he had the Rane or was using the JRiver setup I provided.

I've heard the JTR Captivator, S1, and Orbit Shifter all blind on the same day from the same seat. Couldn't tell a difference between them at all.
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post #29162 of 30542 Old 05-04-2015, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
There is no difference to whether you call it a main or a sub if it plays the same frequencies. Each 215RT, with enough power, is almost equivalent to a single ported Captivator. RMK was using his center 215RT as a sub for two-channel content when he had the Rane or was using the JRiver setup I provided.

I've heard the JTR Captivator, S1, and Orbit Shifter all blind on the same day from the same seat. Couldn't tell a difference between them at all.
Have you heard the Triax?

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post #29163 of 30542 Old 05-04-2015, 12:30 PM
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Have you heard the Triax?
No, but I also heard dual Submersives at the blind GTG which should be similar. With the latest crawl, I've now heard at least 27 different subwoofer systems including subs from Rythmik, Danley, CHT, Hsu Research, JTR Speakers, Seaton Sound, Epik, BIC, Klipsch, and DIY. DIY includes drivers from Eminence, Acoustic Elegance, Dayton, Stereo Integrity, Mach V, & TC Sounds. The available displacement, drivers, amplification, DSP, and the room have far more bearing on how a sub sounds for music listening than whether it is ported or sealed. In other words, you could like the Triax best because of its greater displacement or the amount of power it has available vs it being sealed. Its just too hard to know.
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post #29164 of 30542 Old 05-04-2015, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
There is no difference to whether you call it a main or a sub if it plays the same frequencies. Each 215RT, with enough power, is almost equivalent to a single ported Captivator. RMK was using his center 215RT as a sub for two-channel content when he had the Rane or was using the JRiver setup I provided.

I've heard the JTR Captivator, S1, and Orbit Shifter all blind on the same day from the same seat. Couldn't tell a difference between them at all.
I do remember sub C sounding the best to me for music at the time. However, I have heard so many different subs since that meet that I chalk it up to my mood - I must have just eaten or drank a beer or something.


As far as the 215's go, having owned both dual passive Caps and now the 215's I would subjectively say that the 215's have the same output as my ported caps powered by the ep4000. Passive Caps powered by the Crown 5000 or something similar like the CV 5000 would have more headroom IMO.

Still, pretty crazy impressive for a pair of speakers.
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post #29165 of 30542 Old 05-04-2015, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
No, but I also heard dual Submersives at the blind GTG which should be similar. With the latest crawl, I've now heard at least 27 different subwoofer systems including subs from Rythmik, Danley, CHT, Hsu Research, JTR Speakers, Seaton Sound, Epik, BIC, Klipsch, and DIY. DIY includes drivers from Eminence, Acoustic Elegance, Dayton, Stereo Integrity, Mach V, & TC Sounds. The available displacement, drivers, amplification, DSP, and the room have far more bearing on how a sub sounds for music listening than whether it is ported or sealed. In other words, you could like the Triax best because of its greater displacement or the amount of power it has available vs it being sealed. Its just too hard to know.
To date, my Triax, 212HT combo seemed to be the best music combo for me. However RMK is right and I do love the 215RT's for music, but music is not my first. I spent some time in the beginning with the 215's with alot of music, but in my theater I am pretty much back to 90-100% movies hence my comment about going back to subs. When I get some free time I am going to set my theater back to the 212HT, Triax combo for a bit and evaluate that for a bit and see what I like better. The RT's could "possibly" be going on the market.
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post #29166 of 30542 Old 05-04-2015, 01:06 PM
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Still, pretty crazy impressive for a pair of speakers subs that can play fullrange.
Fixed it for you.
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post #29167 of 30542 Old 05-04-2015, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
To date, my Triax, 212HT combo seemed to be the best music combo for me. However RMK is right and I do love the 215RT's for music, but music is not my first. I spent some time in the beginning with the 215's with alot of music, but in my theater I am pretty much back to 90-100% movies hence my comment about going back to subs. When I get some free time I am going to set my theater back to the 212HT, Triax combo for a bit and evaluate that for a bit and see what I like better. The RT's could "possibly" be going on the market.
And so it goes in the wild and wacky world of HT audio on the AVS Forum ...

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post #29168 of 30542 Old 05-04-2015, 04:14 PM
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And so it goes in the wild and wacky world of HT audio on the AVS Forum …
To add, It will be months before I do anything. I have a few different configs I want to do and spend a few weeks with each, not to mention the new center channel and XMC-1 should be arriving in the next week or two. Would like to see what Dirac will do in my quarters.
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post #29169 of 30542 Old 05-04-2015, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
To add, It will be months before I do anything. I have a few different configs I want to do and spend a few weeks with each, not to mention the new center channel and XMC-1 should be arriving in the next week or two. Would like to see what Dirac will do in my quarters.
I predict it will free you from juggling all that hardware in pursuit of your ideal sound.

It certainly makes a difference to start with very capable hardware, but any of that stuff should get you close enough that you can fine tune the rest.
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post #29170 of 30542 Old 05-04-2015, 05:07 PM
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On the sealed vs. ported discussion, I was able to compan Rythmik F25s (14-hi mode) and FV15HPs (14-hi 1 port mode).
They sounded virtually identical above the tuning frequency.
At the FV15HP's tuning frequency, the F25s had more detail.
The F25s played lower.
The FV15HPs played louder.
When crossed at the same frequency, the FV15HPs were easier to localize, I think due to subtle port noise.
I kept the F25s, but ended up getting 4 of them before I was fully satisfied in my big room.
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post #29171 of 30542 Old 05-04-2015, 07:28 PM
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Question for people who have heard both. What is the advantage of Noesis 212HT over 228HT in a HT system which has 2 good subs?? Is 212HT worth $1K more than 228HT?
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post #29172 of 30542 Old 05-05-2015, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
To add, It will be months before I do anything. I have a few different configs I want to do and spend a few weeks with each, not to mention the new center channel and XMC-1 should be arriving in the next week or two. Would like to see what Dirac will do in my quarters.
I wouldn't move anything until I got that new processor first. It could immediately cure everything you might be looking for. I will look forward to your impressions.

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Question for people who have heard both. What is the advantage of Noesis 212HT over 228HT in a HT system which has 2 good subs?? Is 212HT worth $1K more than 228HT?
Essentially most will agree the 212 is more refined, especially for music. If you listen to music more than 40-50% of the time you are planning on using these speakers, the 212 would be justified. If you are going for primarily or solely HT movie usage, then the 228 would suffice just fine.

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post #29173 of 30542 Old 05-05-2015, 08:19 AM
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Question for people who have heard both. What is the advantage of Noesis 212HT over 228HT in a HT system which has 2 good subs?? Is 212HT worth $1K more than 228HT?
The 212TT is the closest comparable speaker to the 228HT with a $500 price difference. Both are 2 way horn designs.
From the forum "2015 Noesis 212TT featuring nearly the performance as the "HT" version for 22% less cost ($1799 vs $2299)."
http://jtrspeakers.websitetoolbox.co...hanges-7176801

The 210RT/RM, 212HT/lp, and 215RT/RM are 3 way designs sharing the same Badass Coaxial compression driver. This CD is what makes these speakers special.

Is the 212HT worth $1000 more than the 228HT, IMO Hell Yes!!!! The 210RT/RM would be worth the price difference too.
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post #29174 of 30542 Old 05-05-2015, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
To date, my Triax, 212HT combo seemed to be the best music combo for me. However RMK is right and I do love the 215RT's for music, but music is not my first. I spent some time in the beginning with the 215's with alot of music, but in my theater I am pretty much back to 90-100% movies hence my comment about going back to subs. When I get some free time I am going to set my theater back to the 212HT, Triax combo for a bit and evaluate that for a bit and see what I like better. The RT's could "possibly" be going on the market.
Curious as to what characteristics you are looking for by changing from the 215RTs to the 212HT combo. I am 50/50 HT/music. Just doing my research.
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post #29175 of 30542 Old 05-05-2015, 10:31 AM
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The better question is, Does Dolby Atmos support IT!!!!

Just kidding, I don't know what we are talking about.
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I am soon to have an all JTR setup.. Last month I ordered 3x212HTs for my LCR and 2 Single 8LPs for my surrounds. According to Jeff, they should ship by the end of this week but he is also running a bit late so that may change..

I also picked up a pair of Triple 12LFs that I am planning to use as surround backs.. They were cheaper than the new Single 8LPs that is why I decided to use them that way

Big thanks to rcohen for helping me come up with my selections.

Can't wait for them to arrive!
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post #29177 of 30542 Old 05-05-2015, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firefightingrob View Post
Curious as to what characteristics you are looking for by changing from the 215RTs to the 212HT combo. I am 50/50 HT/music. Just doing my research.
Either 212s or 215s can achieve amazing levels of performance.

Do you plan to get subs?
If so, what kind?
Do you have room for 215RTs or 215RMs?

That will steer your decision.
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post #29178 of 30542 Old 05-05-2015, 03:49 PM
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I am soon to have an all JTR setup.. Last month I ordered 3x212HTs for my LCR and 2 Single 8LPs for my surrounds. According to Jeff, they should ship by the end of this week but he is also running a bit late so that may change..

I also picked up a pair of Triple 12LFs that I am planning to use as surround backs.. They were cheaper than the new Single 8LPs that is why I decided to use them that way

Big thanks to rcohen for helping me come up with my selections.

Can't wait for them to arrive!
Congrats and looking forward to your impressions.

I'm guessing you meant Triple 12HT" or LP's? Never heard of LF's except Orbit Shifters. In any case, is there any way you can fit them as side surrounds? That is where most of the surround sound action is and the T12's would make awesome side surrounds if the room can accommodate them. I went with Triple 8LPs as my side surrounds and have never regretted that decision even though they were more expensive than the single 8's.

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post #29179 of 30542 Old 05-05-2015, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ahmedreda View Post
I am soon to have an all JTR setup.. Last month I ordered 3x212HTs for my LCR and 2 Single 8LPs for my surrounds. According to Jeff, they should ship by the end of this week but he is also running a bit late so that may change..

I also picked up a pair of Triple 12LFs that I am planning to use as surround backs.. They were cheaper than the new Single 8LPs that is why I decided to use them that way

Big thanks to rcohen for helping me come up with my selections.

Can't wait for them to arrive!
I'm excited to hear what you think. A little premature to thank me, but hopefully you will be in a week.

If you use Audyssey, there is a chance it will get confused by the 212s' efficiency. In some cases, it will clamp the 212s down to -12db, rather than properly setting them relative to other speakers.

If so, some of these might help:
https://www.parts-express.com/in-lin...-10db--240-412

If you aren't using Audyssey, you can manually tune gain using a sound meter, measurement mic, or app on your phone. I ended up going that route, and going without the attenuators.

Also, no idea what will work best in your room, but in mine, a little extra toe in (aimed 2-3 feet in front of the MLP) gave the widest sweet spot, while maintaining strong imaging.
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post #29180 of 30542 Old 05-05-2015, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
I wouldn't move anything until I got that new processor first. It could immediately cure everything you might be looking for. I will look forward to your impressions.
Oh yes, a big reason the XMC-1 is coming vs going with the Denon X7200. Thinking maybe Dirac will clean things up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by firefightingrob View Post
Curious as to what characteristics you are looking for by changing from the 215RTs to the 212HT combo. I am 50/50 HT/music. Just doing my research.
More or less an experiment really. The 212HT's seemed a bit more dynamic for movies. Also a couple of movies I watched I felt sounded a bit better on my sealed vs the ported full range (Elysium) being one of them and (WOW) the other. Going to cross the 215's with ported, then sealed, then the 212HT's the same way and see what sounds the best in the end. Also have a new center channel coming in so see how that plays in also. After Fathers Day I get summer help for my business and will be doing less traveling and half the workload, so hopefully I will have the whole summer to play with lots of free time. Well see about that.

On a side note the Eastern Cope's grey Tree frogs have moved closer to the house after breading and it has just been music to my ears here. They are just signing away as I type this. I love those little guys! Sorry
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post #29181 of 30542 Old 05-05-2015, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
Either 212s or 215s can achieve amazing levels of performance.

Do you plan to get subs?
If so, what kind?
Do you have room for 215RTs or 215RMs?

That will steer your decision.
I will definitely get a sub, I may jump on this Cap 1400 deal. It looks like a great sub for the money. It will replace my M@K 250 watt 12" sub. But my subs are just support for my 5.1 surrounds. I want a KILLER full range 2 channel music system. I want Hi Fi that will amaze in dynamics and be revealing of the subtleties in music. I would like to avoid integrating a sub into my 2 channel. I like to keep is simple with no electronic DSP. The 215RTs look like the ticket, with a few holdbacks:
1. They are huge. This is also a benefit as I like a wall of sound. I would have to make some changes in the room to make them work, but it can be done.
2. Does the dual 15" woofers overpower the horn loaded compression driver, or do they have the same balance as the powerful, and effordless 210RTs that I heard and loved at Axpona?
3. They are pretty utilitarian looking. I put sound over looks as a priority and I know veneers can be added, but it is at an added premium. Starting to leave the cost savings.
There are lots of options out there so I like to get real feedback from owners. If a current owner has them and is thinking of making a change I like to know why to see if it may be something I would or would not have an problem with.
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post #29182 of 30542 Old 05-05-2015, 04:16 PM
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Those I believe are a 2008-9 model..
JTR Triple 12LF Review



I asked Jeff if I can use the 212HT grills with them since these will be visible.

My previous speakers were Polk Audio RTI A9 and there is no comparison between the two.. With just 2 speakers and no surrounds, they were in an entire different league than all my previous 7 speakers combined.. I can't wait to hear what the 212HTs would sound like.

The only way I can fit them as side surrounds is if I put them slightly behind the seats at around 110 degrees.. Having the Single 8lp at 90 degrees would give better distinction between the sides and the back which I think is more important.

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Congrats and looking forward to your impressions.

I'm guessing you meant Triple 12HT" or LP's? Never heard of LF's except Orbit Shifters. In any case, is there any way you can fit them as side surrounds? That is where most of the surround sound action is and the T12's would make awesome side surrounds if the room can accommodate them. I went with Triple 8LPs as my side surrounds and have never regretted that decision even though they were more expensive than the single 8's.
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post #29183 of 30542 Old 05-05-2015, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firefightingrob View Post
I will definitely get a sub, I may jump on this Cap 1400 deal. It looks like a great sub for the money. It will replace my M@K 250 watt 12" sub. But my subs are just support for my 5.1 surrounds. I want a KILLER full range 2 channel music system. I want Hi Fi that will amaze in dynamics and be revealing of the subtleties in music. I would like to avoid integrating a sub into my 2 channel. I like to keep is simple with no electronic DSP. The 215RTs look like the ticket, with a few holdbacks:
1. They are huge. This is also a benefit as I like a wall of sound. I would have to make some changes in the room to make them work, but it can be done.
2. Does the dual 15" woofers overpower the horn loaded compression driver, or do they have the same balance as the powerful, and effordless 210RTs that I heard and loved at Axpona?
3. They are pretty utilitarian looking. I put sound over looks as a priority and I know veneers can be added, but it is at an added premium. Starting to leave the cost savings.
There are lots of options out there so I like to get real feedback from owners. If a current owner has them and is thinking of making a change I like to know why to see if it may be something I would or would not have an problem with.
For a single sub, your best bet would be to place it nearfield, if you can.
From your description, the 215RTs sound like your speaker, along with a powerful amp.
Yes, the horn can keep up with the 15s. In fact, I think the 15s are the bottleneck!
Certain DSP can make it sound more pure and revealing, but that's another topic. (Couldn't resist.)
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post #29184 of 30542 Old 05-05-2015, 04:30 PM
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Yes, that is what it did with the triple 12s and they have the same 101db sensitivity.. I ordered the 12db RCA version since I am using RCA..
I am going to experiment with the toe-in when I get the speakers.. When i used the Triple 12s, I had good results with them facing the listening position at about 45 degrees but then again i haven't tried any other angles.


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I'm excited to hear what you think. A little premature to thank me, but hopefully you will be in a week.

If you use Audyssey, there is a chance it will get confused by the 212s' efficiency. In some cases, it will clamp the 212s down to -12db, rather than properly setting them relative to other speakers.

If so, some of these might help:
https://www.parts-express.com/in-lin...-10db--240-412

If you aren't using Audyssey, you can manually tune gain using a sound meter, measurement mic, or app on your phone. I ended up going that route, and going without the attenuators.

Also, no idea what will work best in your room, but in mine, a little extra toe in (aimed 2-3 feet in front of the MLP) gave the widest sweet spot, while maintaining strong imaging.
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post #29185 of 30542 Old 05-05-2015, 04:34 PM
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Yes, that is what it did with the triple 12s and they have the same 101db sensitivity.. I ordered the 12db RCA version since I am using RCA..
I am going to experiment with the toe-in when I get the speakers.. When i used the Triple 12s, I had good results with them facing the listening position at about 45 degrees but then again i haven't tried any other angles.
Going past 45 degrees might be too much, but I guess you'll find out when you experiment.

The dispersion on the 212s would be pretty different than the T12s, due to the horn. Regardless, experimenting is the way to go.
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post #29186 of 30542 Old 05-05-2015, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ahmedreda View Post
Those I believe are a 2008-9 model..
JTR Triple 12LF Review



I asked Jeff if I can use the 212HT grills with them since these will be visible.

My previous speakers were Polk Audio RTI A9 and there is no comparison between the two.. With just 2 speakers and no surrounds, they were in an entire different league than all my previous 7 speakers combined.. I can't wait to hear what the 212HTs would sound like.

The only way I can fit them as side surrounds is if I put them slightly behind the seats at around 110 degrees.. Having the Single 8lp at 90 degrees would give better distinction between the sides and the back which I think is more important.
I know those review speakers well, I heard them in that room and ended up buying them ... Still, I think the LF is a typo.

In any case, I agree with your assessment of the T12's but might take issue with the importance weighting. Actually, they would make better wide speakers than surround backs IMHO.
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post #29187 of 30542 Old 05-05-2015, 04:44 PM
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@ahmedreda ,
I wish I took a picture when I had the horns off my 212s (the older model, with removable horns).
The guts in these things are insane.
Lots of huge components, and very nicely put together.
I've never seen anything like it.
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post #29188 of 30542 Old 05-05-2015, 04:52 PM
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I will definitely get a sub, I may jump on this Cap 1400 deal. It looks like a great sub for the money. It will replace my M@K 250 watt 12" sub. But my subs are just support for my 5.1 surrounds. I want a KILLER full range 2 channel music system. I want Hi Fi that will amaze in dynamics and be revealing of the subtleties in music. I would like to avoid integrating a sub into my 2 channel. I like to keep is simple with no electronic DSP. The 215RTs look like the ticket, with a few holdbacks:
1. They are huge. This is also a benefit as I like a wall of sound. I would have to make some changes in the room to make them work, but it can be done.
2. Does the dual 15" woofers overpower the horn loaded compression driver, or do they have the same balance as the powerful, and effordless 210RTs that I heard and loved at Axpona?
3. They are pretty utilitarian looking. I put sound over looks as a priority and I know veneers can be added, but it is at an added premium. Starting to leave the cost savings.
There are lots of options out there so I like to get real feedback from owners. If a current owner has them and is thinking of making a change I like to know why to see if it may be something I would or would not have an problem with.
I have been wanting a true full range loudspeaker for years and Jeff finally made one. I was customer #1 and I have never thought of letting them go. They are huge, but if you can work them into your lifestyle, it's all good. I haven't heard the 210RT but would love to some day. The wooers do not overpower the 215 horn as that is one of the better compression drivers money can buy and, they sound amazing. I should also mention that they are virtually indestructible so don't be afraid to let the speakers do their thing. The chills and the big grin on your face will be your reward ...

You might want to check out the review above of the early model JTR Triple 12's referenced above. That gent owned many audiophile speakers and his experience mirrors mine when it comes to high efficiency designs and the money we spent chasing the audiophile dream.

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post #29189 of 30542 Old 05-05-2015, 05:20 PM
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That could very well be the case In my previous setup I had all the surrounds behind the seats and I always felt like all the sound was coming from the back. When I receive the speakers, I will try them both ways and see which one works better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
I know those review speakers well, I heard them in that room and ended up buying them ... Still, I think the LF is a typo.

In any case, I agree with your assessment of the T12's but might take issue with the importance weighting. Actually, they would make better wide speakers than surround backs IMHO.
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post #29190 of 30542 Old 05-05-2015, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
I have been wanting a true full range loudspeaker for years and Jeff finally made one. I was customer #1 and I have never thought of letting them go. They are huge, but if you can work them into your lifestyle, it's all good. I haven't heard the 210RT but would love to some day. The wooers do not overpower the 215 horn as that is one of the better compression drivers money can buy and, they sound amazing. I should also mention that they are virtually indestructible so don't be afraid to let the speakers do their thing. The chills and the big grin on your face will be your reward ...

You might want to check out the review above of the early model JTR Triple 12's referenced above. That gent owned many audiophile speakers and his experience mirrors mine when it comes to high efficiency designs and the money we spent chasing the audiophile dream.
Thanks. You are right. I might be in the same situation as that guy. I will put my current gear up for sale and let the rest be up to the Audio Gods. 215RTs sure would look cool in gloss black
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