Official JTR speaker thread - Page 973 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #29161 of 29511 Old 05-03-2015, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
Well, "need" a strong word, but speakers in this class are more about what's the ultimate setup, rather than what you can get by with.

It also depends on the upper frequency range of the subs, and where you plan to cross them over.
For lower crossovers (especially with 18+" subs), the 215RM is a better match.
For higher crossovers, the 212s give added efficiency.

For no subs, the 215RTs are the ultimate choice, but 210RTs or 215RMs could do the job, but not 212s.
What is the best sub to match with the 215rm for 90 plus%for ht?
Allen
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post #29162 of 29511 Old 05-03-2015, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by DekPM19 View Post
What is the best sub to match with the 215rm for 90 plus%for ht?
Allen
That's a bit loaded. Do you have a budget in mind and what's your space like? Do you plan on using any dsp? Some feel it's easier to integrate sealed subs with sealed speakers. I'm using two S2s with my 215s. I'm like you, I'm 90% plus HT.

You'll get lots of advice here but it will help if you can expand on needs and desires.
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post #29163 of 29511 Old 05-03-2015, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by 7channelfreak View Post
That's a bit loaded. Do you have a budget in mind and what's your space like? Do you plan on using any dsp? Some feel it's easier to integrate sealed subs with sealed speakers. I'm using two S2s with my 215s. I'm like you, I'm 90% plus HT.

You'll get lots of advice here but it will help if you can expand on needs and desires.
I have a dedicated room that 15 x 24 and has a small room off to the side that is is 11 x 11 and a long hallway coming into the room. I use Audessy for the initial set up and I go back and check channel levels and distance myself. Most subs talked about in this thread are with in my budget. If it gets to the upper end of my budget I would by one now and one later. In fact I am going to replace my subs first probably the first of next year. I run seal speakers now so a sealed sub will work for me. I just didn't know if the s1 or 2 is better or os. Their are other great subs out their too I need to look at but I was thinking a full JTR system.
Allen

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post #29164 of 29511 Old 05-03-2015, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by DekPM19 View Post
I have a dedicated room that 15 x 24 and has a small room off to the side that is is 11 x 11 and a long hallway coming into the room. I use Audessy for the initial set up and I go back and check channel levels and distance myself. Most subs talked about in this thread are with in my budget. If it gets to the upper end of my budget I would by one now and one later. In fact I am going to replace my subs first probably the first of next year. I run seal speakers now so a sealed sub will work for me. I just didn't know if the s1 or 2 is better or os. Their are other great subs out their too I need to look at but I was thinking a full JTR system.
Allen
If I were getting a pair of subs to augment my 215RT's (I'm not ), they would be the Cap 1400's. The whole ported vs sealed thing is mostly nonsense because with bass (like real estate), the critical issue is location, location, location.

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post #29165 of 29511 Old 05-03-2015, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by DekPM19 View Post
What is the best sub to match with the 215rm for 90 plus%for ht?
Allen
I know for my personal taste, Ported for movies and sealed for music. 50/50 I would go sealed, but for 90% HT and a large room, Ported would be a good choice. The Cap 1400 would be a solid sub.
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post #29166 of 29511 Old 05-03-2015, 12:19 PM
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I know for my personal taste, Ported for movies and sealed for music. 50/50 I would go sealed, but for 90% HT and a large room, Ported would be a good choice. The Cap 1400 would be a solid sub.
And yet you like the 215RT's on-board "ported" subs for music ...

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post #29167 of 29511 Old 05-03-2015, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by DekPM19 View Post
What is the best sub to match with the 215rm for 90 plus%for ht?
Allen
The 215RM's puts out lots of bass FR on there own. But doesn't go low enough for most who wants to experience down to the sub 20's. If I were looking for a good sub now, I'd take advantage of the pre sale Cap 1400 and get 2 of them and your set. Though I'd go with a couple of S2's with the RM's. Them S2's are potent subs for sure.
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post #29168 of 29511 Old 05-03-2015, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by 7channelfreak View Post
That's a bit loaded. Do you have a budget in mind and what's your space like? Do you plan on using any dsp? Some feel it's easier to integrate sealed subs with sealed speakers. I'm using two S2s with my 215s. I'm like you, I'm 90% plus HT.

You'll get lots of advice here but it will help if you can expand on needs and desires.

I honestly think that you pretty much have the ultimate HT speaker/sub setup! The only way that would get any better is if you had room for two more Cap S2's so that you could run one in each corner of the room.
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post #29169 of 29511 Old 05-03-2015, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7channelfreak View Post
That's a bit loaded. Do you have a budget in mind and what's your space like? Do you plan on using any dsp? Some feel it's easier to integrate sealed subs with sealed speakers. I'm using two S2s with my 215s. I'm like you, I'm 90% plus HT.

You'll get lots of advice here but it will help if you can expand on needs and desires.
Correction: It's easier to match sealed speakers with subs (sealed or ported) because a ported speaker can do funky phase and slope stuff around the tuning frequency. You can avoid this either by crossing above the tuning frequency or using a bass management system with additional crossover slope options.

Ported subs are much more efficient, but there are some sacrifices, such as port noise, extension below the tuning frequency, and detail around the tuning frequency. (The ringing at the tuning frequency smears the sound a bit.)
Bad ported subs are peaky around the tuning frequency ("one note wonders"), but good ported subs are flat to the tuning frequency.
Ported vs. sealed subs depends on your taste and priorities, and your room size vs budget.

Personally, I prefer lots of sealed subs, but that's not right for everyone.

There is no benefit to matching sealed speakers & sealed subs or ported speakers & ported subs. They are independent.

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post #29170 of 29511 Old 05-03-2015, 05:01 PM
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Thanks for the information. I have several mic stands and will work with the 0° Omnimic and concentrate on 2 channel only. My source is my HTPC and that is my primary source for music with my OPPO (103D) handling all of the bluray and streaming movie content so no way to have Dirac in that chain anyway.

I will be interesting to see how it does with music in 2 channel mode and will tackle this when I have the spare time (14 day window). I will also be keeping an eye out for a processor with 3D audio and Dirac. I have the Emo upgrade for life so if they can get it done, that seems like the most likely path to where I want to go. I find it ironic that it is the often controversial Emotiva that is touting the specific combo of technologies that many dedicated hobbyists want. The XMC-1 seems to be working as planned so there is hope but as they say, "hope springs eternal in the optimists heart" or is it "a fool and his money are soon parted".
Sounds like a good strategy. Post your curves when you get a chance to try it out. It's actually pretty fun to play with the target curves.
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post #29171 of 29511 Old 05-03-2015, 05:18 PM
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If I were getting a pair of subs to augment my 215RT's (I'm not ), they would be the Cap 1400's. The whole ported vs sealed thing is mostly nonsense because with bass (like real estate), the critical issue is location, location, location.
I agree with Rob....in fact I agree so much...I bought 2 Cap 1400's to go with my 215RT's.
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post #29172 of 29511 Old 05-04-2015, 06:46 AM
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I am going back to subs. When my XMC-1 gets in, I will be crossing for movies.
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post #29173 of 29511 Old 05-04-2015, 11:42 AM
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And yet you like the 215RT's on-board "ported" subs for music …
Thus is true but I am talking subs now Rob, not mains I have had many ported subs, different brands, sizes and to this day, no music has sounded better in my network than my Triax's. I also liked the S2's.
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post #29174 of 29511 Old 05-04-2015, 11:55 AM
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Thus is true but I am talking subs now Rob, not mains I have had many ported subs, different brands, sizes and to this day, no music has sounded better in my network than my Triax's. I also liked the S2's.
There is no difference to whether you call it a main or a sub if it plays the same frequencies. Each 215RT, with enough power, is almost equivalent to a single ported Captivator. RMK was using his center 215RT as a sub for two-channel content when he had the Rane or was using the JRiver setup I provided.

I've heard the JTR Captivator, S1, and Orbit Shifter all blind on the same day from the same seat. Couldn't tell a difference between them at all.
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post #29175 of 29511 Old 05-04-2015, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
There is no difference to whether you call it a main or a sub if it plays the same frequencies. Each 215RT, with enough power, is almost equivalent to a single ported Captivator. RMK was using his center 215RT as a sub for two-channel content when he had the Rane or was using the JRiver setup I provided.

I've heard the JTR Captivator, S1, and Orbit Shifter all blind on the same day from the same seat. Couldn't tell a difference between them at all.
Have you heard the Triax?

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post #29176 of 29511 Old 05-04-2015, 12:30 PM
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Have you heard the Triax?
No, but I also heard dual Submersives at the blind GTG which should be similar. With the latest crawl, I've now heard at least 27 different subwoofer systems including subs from Rythmik, Danley, CHT, Hsu Research, JTR Speakers, Seaton Sound, Epik, BIC, Klipsch, and DIY. DIY includes drivers from Eminence, Acoustic Elegance, Dayton, Stereo Integrity, Mach V, & TC Sounds. The available displacement, drivers, amplification, DSP, and the room have far more bearing on how a sub sounds for music listening than whether it is ported or sealed. In other words, you could like the Triax best because of its greater displacement or the amount of power it has available vs it being sealed. Its just too hard to know.
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post #29177 of 29511 Old 05-04-2015, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
There is no difference to whether you call it a main or a sub if it plays the same frequencies. Each 215RT, with enough power, is almost equivalent to a single ported Captivator. RMK was using his center 215RT as a sub for two-channel content when he had the Rane or was using the JRiver setup I provided.

I've heard the JTR Captivator, S1, and Orbit Shifter all blind on the same day from the same seat. Couldn't tell a difference between them at all.
I do remember sub C sounding the best to me for music at the time. However, I have heard so many different subs since that meet that I chalk it up to my mood - I must have just eaten or drank a beer or something.


As far as the 215's go, having owned both dual passive Caps and now the 215's I would subjectively say that the 215's have the same output as my ported caps powered by the ep4000. Passive Caps powered by the Crown 5000 or something similar like the CV 5000 would have more headroom IMO.

Still, pretty crazy impressive for a pair of speakers.
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post #29178 of 29511 Old 05-04-2015, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
No, but I also heard dual Submersives at the blind GTG which should be similar. With the latest crawl, I've now heard at least 27 different subwoofer systems including subs from Rythmik, Danley, CHT, Hsu Research, JTR Speakers, Seaton Sound, Epik, BIC, Klipsch, and DIY. DIY includes drivers from Eminence, Acoustic Elegance, Dayton, Stereo Integrity, Mach V, & TC Sounds. The available displacement, drivers, amplification, DSP, and the room have far more bearing on how a sub sounds for music listening than whether it is ported or sealed. In other words, you could like the Triax best because of its greater displacement or the amount of power it has available vs it being sealed. Its just too hard to know.
To date, my Triax, 212HT combo seemed to be the best music combo for me. However RMK is right and I do love the 215RT's for music, but music is not my first. I spent some time in the beginning with the 215's with alot of music, but in my theater I am pretty much back to 90-100% movies hence my comment about going back to subs. When I get some free time I am going to set my theater back to the 212HT, Triax combo for a bit and evaluate that for a bit and see what I like better. The RT's could "possibly" be going on the market.
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Still, pretty crazy impressive for a pair of speakers subs that can play fullrange.
Fixed it for you.
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
To date, my Triax, 212HT combo seemed to be the best music combo for me. However RMK is right and I do love the 215RT's for music, but music is not my first. I spent some time in the beginning with the 215's with alot of music, but in my theater I am pretty much back to 90-100% movies hence my comment about going back to subs. When I get some free time I am going to set my theater back to the 212HT, Triax combo for a bit and evaluate that for a bit and see what I like better. The RT's could "possibly" be going on the market.
And so it goes in the wild and wacky world of HT audio on the AVS Forum ...

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post #29181 of 29511 Old 05-04-2015, 04:14 PM
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And so it goes in the wild and wacky world of HT audio on the AVS Forum …
To add, It will be months before I do anything. I have a few different configs I want to do and spend a few weeks with each, not to mention the new center channel and XMC-1 should be arriving in the next week or two. Would like to see what Dirac will do in my quarters.
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To add, It will be months before I do anything. I have a few different configs I want to do and spend a few weeks with each, not to mention the new center channel and XMC-1 should be arriving in the next week or two. Would like to see what Dirac will do in my quarters.
I predict it will free you from juggling all that hardware in pursuit of your ideal sound.

It certainly makes a difference to start with very capable hardware, but any of that stuff should get you close enough that you can fine tune the rest.
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On the sealed vs. ported discussion, I was able to compan Rythmik F25s (14-hi mode) and FV15HPs (14-hi 1 port mode).
They sounded virtually identical above the tuning frequency.
At the FV15HP's tuning frequency, the F25s had more detail.
The F25s played lower.
The FV15HPs played louder.
When crossed at the same frequency, the FV15HPs were easier to localize, I think due to subtle port noise.
I kept the F25s, but ended up getting 4 of them before I was fully satisfied in my big room.
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post #29184 of 29511 Old 05-04-2015, 07:28 PM
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Question for people who have heard both. What is the advantage of Noesis 212HT over 228HT in a HT system which has 2 good subs?? Is 212HT worth $1K more than 228HT?
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
To add, It will be months before I do anything. I have a few different configs I want to do and spend a few weeks with each, not to mention the new center channel and XMC-1 should be arriving in the next week or two. Would like to see what Dirac will do in my quarters.
I wouldn't move anything until I got that new processor first. It could immediately cure everything you might be looking for. I will look forward to your impressions.

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Question for people who have heard both. What is the advantage of Noesis 212HT over 228HT in a HT system which has 2 good subs?? Is 212HT worth $1K more than 228HT?
Essentially most will agree the 212 is more refined, especially for music. If you listen to music more than 40-50% of the time you are planning on using these speakers, the 212 would be justified. If you are going for primarily or solely HT movie usage, then the 228 would suffice just fine.

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post #29186 of 29511 Old 05-05-2015, 08:19 AM
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Question for people who have heard both. What is the advantage of Noesis 212HT over 228HT in a HT system which has 2 good subs?? Is 212HT worth $1K more than 228HT?
The 212TT is the closest comparable speaker to the 228HT with a $500 price difference. Both are 2 way horn designs.
From the forum "2015 Noesis 212TT featuring nearly the performance as the "HT" version for 22% less cost ($1799 vs $2299)."
http://jtrspeakers.websitetoolbox.co...hanges-7176801

The 210RT/RM, 212HT/lp, and 215RT/RM are 3 way designs sharing the same Badass Coaxial compression driver. This CD is what makes these speakers special.

Is the 212HT worth $1000 more than the 228HT, IMO Hell Yes!!!! The 210RT/RM would be worth the price difference too.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
To date, my Triax, 212HT combo seemed to be the best music combo for me. However RMK is right and I do love the 215RT's for music, but music is not my first. I spent some time in the beginning with the 215's with alot of music, but in my theater I am pretty much back to 90-100% movies hence my comment about going back to subs. When I get some free time I am going to set my theater back to the 212HT, Triax combo for a bit and evaluate that for a bit and see what I like better. The RT's could "possibly" be going on the market.
Curious as to what characteristics you are looking for by changing from the 215RTs to the 212HT combo. I am 50/50 HT/music. Just doing my research.
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post #29188 of 29511 Old 05-05-2015, 10:31 AM
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The better question is, Does Dolby Atmos support IT!!!!

Just kidding, I don't know what we are talking about.
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post #29189 of 29511 Old 05-05-2015, 11:47 AM
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I am soon to have an all JTR setup.. Last month I ordered 3x212HTs for my LCR and 2 Single 8LPs for my surrounds. According to Jeff, they should ship by the end of this week but he is also running a bit late so that may change..

I also picked up a pair of Triple 12LFs that I am planning to use as surround backs.. They were cheaper than the new Single 8LPs that is why I decided to use them that way

Big thanks to rcohen for helping me come up with my selections.

Can't wait for them to arrive!
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post #29190 of 29511 Old 05-05-2015, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firefightingrob View Post
Curious as to what characteristics you are looking for by changing from the 215RTs to the 212HT combo. I am 50/50 HT/music. Just doing my research.
Either 212s or 215s can achieve amazing levels of performance.

Do you plan to get subs?
If so, what kind?
Do you have room for 215RTs or 215RMs?

That will steer your decision.
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