Official JTR speaker thread - Page 979 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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Old 05-24-2015, 04:45 PM
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Yep, Jack Russell!! We used to have 2, now just the one. Love those dogs.

Yeah, I think I'd want to go ear level with my surrounds even if I never do go atmos. I think that's part of what sounds off about my surround sound.

I was hoping that I would like the JBL speakers more than my 215's so I could free up some funds to start going Atmos... didn't happen though. LOVE my 215's.
Yeah I've got 2 JRT's, a 7 year old that is the best dog I have ever had and a 2.5 Y/O that is a typical high energy, smart, funny JRT (eg a PITA ) but I love em both.

With your preference for music you shouldn't be in any hurry to get Atmos. It is really a format that is designed for movies although under the right circumstances can be cool with music. I still prefer 2 channel on the 215's when listening to music. Just wish I had the lateral space to spread mine out like you did. I'm sure they would sound even better with a little more distance between them in 2 channel mode.

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Old 05-24-2015, 04:49 PM
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Yeah I've got 2 JRT's, a 7 year old that is the best dog I have ever had and a 2.5 Y/O that is a typical high energy, smart, funny JRT (eg a PITA ) but I love em both.

With your preference for music you shouldn't be in any hurry to get Atmos. It is really a format that is designed for movies although under the right circumstances can be cool with music. I still prefer 2 channel on the 215's when listening to music. Just wish I had the lateral space to spread mine out like you did. I'm sure they would sound even better with a little more distance between them in 2 channel mode.
Too smart for their own good, right?

Yeah, I know I need to be patient but it's hard when I read Atmos reviews like yours!!
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Old 05-24-2015, 04:56 PM
 
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Atmos is great. But I did notice one thing. You get used to it. And its luster isn't as great as time goes on. At first it's a huge wow. But after a while you barely notice.

Now that I have an enclosed small theater the differences are even smaller. But I'm glad to have had it. And will 100% be going back to should it be around in a couple years
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Old 05-24-2015, 05:04 PM
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Too smart for their own good, right?
They have me well under control. Here is Ajax at my wedding, Best Dog and Ring Bearer.


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Old 05-24-2015, 05:10 PM
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They have me well under control. Here is Ajax at my wedding, Best Dog and Ring Bearer.

We found your soft spot
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Old 05-25-2015, 03:00 AM
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I wonder if the growler and lfu would play well together?
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Old 05-25-2015, 07:33 AM
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^ this is what I am contemplating. I am sure there will be phase differences but with a variable phase correction like Dirac it may be of no concern at all.
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Old 05-25-2015, 07:40 AM
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Atmos is great. But I did notice one thing. You get used to it. And its luster isn't as great as time goes on. At first it's a huge wow. But after a while you barely notice.

Now that I have an enclosed small theater the differences are even smaller. But I'm glad to have had it. And will 100% be going back to should it be around in a couple years
As much as I wanted the XMC-1, it was lacking some stuff that I wanted, but could live without. It is nice to have those things when you want them and with DTSX coming next, I wanted to be ready. I am also happy with a big AVR that can handle all the surrounds and I can juice the mains with some extra power. I am quite happy with 7.1 or in my cast 7.0, but I am looking forward to upgrading to some of the new formats coming down the line here and just not possible with the XMC-1. Hopefully I can get that X7200WA out of the box today. Gotta run to work for an hour and cut the lawn and hope I have enough left in the tank to tinker.
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Old 05-25-2015, 07:50 AM
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^ this is what I am contemplating. I am sure there will be phase differences but with a variable phase correction like Dirac it may be of no concern at all.
I don't see how Dirac can help with subs that have inconsistent phase.

It might be possible to configure their amp plates to have consistent phase, but that has nothing to do with Dirac.
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Old 05-25-2015, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
I had the chance to try out the JBL 4722n's in my room for the past couple of weeks. These are the speakers Notnyt has, among quite a few other members, and I really liked them. I love being able to try out speakers in my own room, that way I'll know for sure how much I like them.

I posted some measurements and impressions in my room thread today:

Carp's Basement
Once you have speakers like JTRs that can do high output, low distortion, good frequency extension, and good directivity control, my current theory is that most things just boil down to differences in FR/EQ. That's part of the fun with Dirac - you can dial in the desired sound without introducing new problems.

I think it boils down to how people prefer louder sound. Certain EQ with certain tracks will crank up certain elements and sound "more clear" and "better" at the same overall volume.

Once you can drag a curve around to get the same results, changing out speakers seems silly. It finally cured my grass is greener disease. That said, even with Dirac, my Triads couldn't match the JTRs for output, frequency extension (especially clean extended treble), or directivity control.

I've never heard 4722Ns, but I suspect that they are in a similar ballpark as JTRs for output and directivity control, but the JTRs would have the edge for frequency extension. So, the JTRs should be able to recreate the 4722N sound with the right EQ tools.

I would have never said things like that before trying Dirac. For whatever reason, I've been pretty unhappy with EQ before. I always felt like treble/bass controls (or similar) didn't spoil the sound, but they didn't provide enough precision, while graphic EQs made things sound muddy. The more you apply, the worse it sounds. Maybe it has something to do with phase or ringing introduced by hi-Q filters.

So what became of your Dirac experiments, Carp? Were you able to find the perfect middle ground?
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Old 05-25-2015, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
Once you have speakers like JTRs that can do high output, low distortion, good frequency extension, and good directivity control, my current theory is that most things just boil down to differences in FR/EQ. That's part of the fun with Dirac - you can dial in the desired sound without introducing new problems.

I think it boils down to how people prefer louder sound. Certain EQ with certain tracks will crank up certain elements and sound "more clear" and "better" at the same overall volume.

Once you can drag a curve around to get the same results, changing out speakers seems silly. It finally cured my grass is greener disease. That said, even with Dirac, my Triads couldn't match the JTRs for output, frequency extension (especially clean extended treble), or directivity control.

I've never heard 4722Ns, but I suspect that they are in a similar ballpark as JTRs for output and directivity control, but the JTRs would have the edge for frequency extension. So, the JTRs should be able to recreate the 4722N sound with the right EQ tools.

I would have never said things like that before trying Dirac. For whatever reason, I've been pretty unhappy with EQ before. I always felt like treble/bass controls (or similar) didn't spoil the sound, but they didn't provide enough precision, while graphic EQs made things sound muddy. The more you apply, the worse it sounds. Maybe it has something to do with phase or ringing introduced by hi-Q filters.

So what became of your Dirac experiments, Carp? Were you able to find the perfect middle ground?
Dirac was frustrating but it was my pc's fault. Every time I would shut down my system Dirac no longer worked and I had to re-install Dirac to get it to work again. I did play with it enough to know that it is the real deal and I know I will eventually get it.

I still prefer a slightly rising treble response above 8khz to 10 kHz so I doubt I'll ever like the default Dirac curve but that doesn't matter since you can set the curve however you like it.

I never found the perfect sound, and my current measurements with no eq look really good as is so I don't have as much to gain as far as freq response goes but the impulse response correction is really cool and I would buy Dirac just for that. Well.. that and the ability to play with whatever curve I want.
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Old 05-25-2015, 09:09 AM
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I don't see how Dirac can help with subs that have inconsistent phase.

It might be possible to configure their amp plates to have consistent phase, but that has nothing to do with Dirac.
It can because it is capable of more than just a simple phase switch where all FR are changing phase. The issue will be that the different boxes will be in phase for some fr and out of phase for others. Dirac can correct for phase by frequency. It will not be as easy as an auto correct but using REW to verify it will be possible to get it to align. Also they will not run the same range, the ULF's 20-50, the growlers 50-100 and the 212's 100 and up. These frequency ranges will be verified but that is my best guess after over 1000 or so measurements in my room at various mic placements.
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Old 05-25-2015, 09:13 AM
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They have me well under control. Here is Ajax at my wedding, Best Dog and Ring Bearer.

What kind of new fangled Jetson technology is going on with that dog leash?
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Old 05-25-2015, 09:20 AM
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^ It's based upon tractor beam technology but the details are classified ...

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Old 05-25-2015, 09:21 AM
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What kind of new fangled Jetson technology is going on with that dog leash?
I bet its a musical device, looks to me like the JR is used as a tension device with a ribbon tweeter and a thick metal wire to reproduce lower frequencies.

Or maybe just a normal leash, with a flat material part to make sure the dog doesn't get hurt if he wraps himself with it.

Hes quite a cute puppy!
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Old 05-25-2015, 10:44 AM
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Dirac was frustrating but it was my pc's fault. Every time I would shut down my system Dirac no longer worked and I had to re-install Dirac to get it to work again. I did play with it enough to know that it is the real deal and I know I will eventually get it.

I still prefer a slightly rising treble response above 8khz to 10 kHz so I doubt I'll ever like the default Dirac curve but that doesn't matter since you can set the curve however you like it.

I never found the perfect sound, and my current measurements with no eq look really good as is so I don't have as much to gain as far as freq response goes but the impulse response correction is really cool and I would buy Dirac just for that. Well.. that and the ability to play with whatever curve I want.
Yeah, that kind of mess is definitely the downside of PC stuff. That's weird about having to reinstall it, though. Maybe Dirac support would have an idea.
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Old 05-25-2015, 10:52 AM
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It can because it is capable of more than just a simple phase switch where all FR are changing phase. The issue will be that the different boxes will be in phase for some fr and out of phase for others. Dirac can correct for phase by frequency. It will not be as easy as an auto correct but using REW to verify it will be possible to get it to align. Also they will not run the same range, the ULF's 20-50, the growlers 50-100 and the 212's 100 and up. These frequency ranges will be verified but that is my best guess after over 1000 or so measurements in my room at various mic placements.
The problem is that it doesn't have a way to properly correct the combined response for two channels.

If you use two sub channels with Dirac, it will measure them separately and correct them separately. The problem is that the combined response will be totally different than the individual response, so it is cutting and boosting the wrong frequencies.

If you link the two channels, it syncs their target curve, not the correction filter, and it still doesn't correct for the combined response.

With a single channel, if you have a separate way to time align your subs, it will do an excellent job of correcting the combined response, as long as you subs have consistent phase. If they have inconsistent phase (like you will get with mixing sealed and ported subs), they will cancel at some frequencies but not others. For partial cancellation, Dirac can boost the frequencies (at the expense of headroom), but for frequencies with strong cancellation, a single channel of Dirac can't help.

So, you would probably have to live with some cancellation. For ideal results, it's better to have subs with consistent phase. The sure way to do that is to make sure all your subs are the same model and have matching filter settings on their amp panels.
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Old 05-25-2015, 10:54 AM
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It can because it is capable of more than just a simple phase switch where all FR are changing phase. The issue will be that the different boxes will be in phase for some fr and out of phase for others. Dirac can correct for phase by frequency. It will not be as easy as an auto correct but using REW to verify it will be possible to get it to align. Also they will not run the same range, the ULF's 20-50, the growlers 50-100 and the 212's 100 and up. These frequency ranges will be verified but that is my best guess after over 1000 or so measurements in my room at various mic placements.
Wait...I just read your post more carefully. Like you said, since they are running in different frequencies, you are good!
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Old 05-25-2015, 10:58 AM
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Wait...I just read your post more carefully. Like you said, since they are running in different frequencies, you are good!
Yes this will make it easier b/c there will be less total overlap.
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Old 05-25-2015, 10:59 AM
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They have me well under control. Here is Ajax at my wedding, Best Dog and Ring Bearer.

Cute little fella. I bet he doesn't get away with anything. Just like mine don't.
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Old 05-25-2015, 11:07 AM
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The problem is that it doesn't have a way to properly correct the combined response for two channels.

If you use two sub channels with Dirac, it will measure them separately and correct them separately. The problem is that the combined response will be totally different than the individual response, so it is cutting and boosting the wrong frequencies.

If you link the two channels, it syncs their target curve, not the correction filter, and it still doesn't correct for the combined response.

With a single channel, if you have a separate way to time align your subs, it will do an excellent job of correcting the combined response, as long as you subs have consistent phase. If they have inconsistent phase (like you will get with mixing sealed and ported subs), they will cancel at some frequencies but not others. For partial cancellation, Dirac can boost the frequencies (at the expense of headroom), but for frequencies with strong cancellation, a single channel of Dirac can't help.

So, you would probably have to live with some cancellation. For ideal results, it's better to have subs with consistent phase. The sure way to do that is to make sure all your subs are the same model and have matching filter settings on their amp panels.
the multiple sub correction issue that you point out was also evident to me after my first go at it with Dirac and confirmation with REW. In the end I ended up "tricking" Dirac to do the right thing by moving the rear sub for Dirac correction and then moving it back to its place for REW verification. I kept re-trying until essentially it got the alignment correct and I could see improvements with each trial when checked with REW. This took me about 4hrs of trial and error to get it right. I would have just aligned with the minidsp but I didn't have quite enough time delay to compensate for my nearest vs furthest sub. If I get the growlers I will probably go ahead and get the mini 10x10 which not only has more channels but also has twice the delay capacity (15ms). I may even run the growlers as part of the mains, essentiall making them LCR 40hz and up and just use the OS ULF's for the LFE channel. Won't know until I try it though.

All I have to say is thank you to the developers of REW!
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Old 05-25-2015, 02:08 PM
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Old 05-25-2015, 02:33 PM
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the multiple sub correction issue that you point out was also evident to me after my first go at it with Dirac and confirmation with REW. In the end I ended up "tricking" Dirac to do the right thing by moving the rear sub for Dirac correction and then moving it back to its place for REW verification. I kept re-trying until essentially it got the alignment correct and I could see improvements with each trial when checked with REW. This took me about 4hrs of trial and error to get it right. I would have just aligned with the minidsp but I didn't have quite enough time delay to compensate for my nearest vs furthest sub. If I get the growlers I will probably go ahead and get the mini 10x10 which not only has more channels but also has twice the delay capacity (15ms). I may even run the growlers as part of the mains, essentiall making them LCR 40hz and up and just use the OS ULF's for the LFE channel. Won't know until I try it though.

All I have to say is thank you to the developers of REW!
Another way to get more delay might be to use the phase knob on the back of the sub. On some subs, the "phase" knob is actually a digital delay.
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Old 05-25-2015, 06:42 PM
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Another way to get more delay might be to use the phase knob on the back of the sub. On some subs, the "phase" knob is actually a digital delay.
There is no phase knob on the back of a JTR sub. Only a gain..
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Old 05-26-2015, 08:12 AM
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i've been searching the internet far and wide for some slanted/single 8's. if anyone knows someone looking to sell, please give me a shout!
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Old 05-26-2015, 02:14 PM
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i've been searching the internet far and wide for some slanted/single 8's. if anyone knows someone looking to sell, please give me a shout!
They don't come up too often and when they do...they don't last long. Have you thought about buying some (new) from Jeff?

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Old 05-26-2015, 02:34 PM
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yes of course, just as soon as my budget gets back in line after this past holiday weekend
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Old 05-26-2015, 02:46 PM
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yes of course, just as soon as my budget gets back in line after this past holiday weekend
Since when did a budget ever have anything to do with JTR Speakers.

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Old 05-26-2015, 08:39 PM
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Old 05-26-2015, 09:09 PM
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@carp - are you going to get some OS Pros soon or what?! What's the frikkin holdup?
Haha, I'd love to!! No space until I can move my screen closer and I need 4K for that! I'm trying to follow Luke's advice, this hobby is a marathon not a sprint. Eventually I think it would be pretty cool to have 2 OS's and 2 OS pros stacked on top of the OS's behind the screen.
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