Official JTR speaker thread - Page 983 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #29461 of 29480 Old Yesterday, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
They have me well under control. Here is Ajax at my wedding, Best Dog and Ring Bearer.

What kind of new fangled Jetson technology is going on with that dog leash?
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post #29462 of 29480 Old Yesterday, 08:20 AM
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^ It's based upon tractor beam technology but the details are classified ...

HToM

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post #29463 of 29480 Old Yesterday, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
What kind of new fangled Jetson technology is going on with that dog leash?
I bet its a musical device, looks to me like the JR is used as a tension device with a ribbon tweeter and a thick metal wire to reproduce lower frequencies.

Or maybe just a normal leash, with a flat material part to make sure the dog doesn't get hurt if he wraps himself with it.

Hes quite a cute puppy!
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post #29464 of 29480 Old Yesterday, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
Dirac was frustrating but it was my pc's fault. Every time I would shut down my system Dirac no longer worked and I had to re-install Dirac to get it to work again. I did play with it enough to know that it is the real deal and I know I will eventually get it.

I still prefer a slightly rising treble response above 8khz to 10 kHz so I doubt I'll ever like the default Dirac curve but that doesn't matter since you can set the curve however you like it.

I never found the perfect sound, and my current measurements with no eq look really good as is so I don't have as much to gain as far as freq response goes but the impulse response correction is really cool and I would buy Dirac just for that. Well.. that and the ability to play with whatever curve I want.
Yeah, that kind of mess is definitely the downside of PC stuff. That's weird about having to reinstall it, though. Maybe Dirac support would have an idea.
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post #29465 of 29480 Old Yesterday, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
It can because it is capable of more than just a simple phase switch where all FR are changing phase. The issue will be that the different boxes will be in phase for some fr and out of phase for others. Dirac can correct for phase by frequency. It will not be as easy as an auto correct but using REW to verify it will be possible to get it to align. Also they will not run the same range, the ULF's 20-50, the growlers 50-100 and the 212's 100 and up. These frequency ranges will be verified but that is my best guess after over 1000 or so measurements in my room at various mic placements.
The problem is that it doesn't have a way to properly correct the combined response for two channels.

If you use two sub channels with Dirac, it will measure them separately and correct them separately. The problem is that the combined response will be totally different than the individual response, so it is cutting and boosting the wrong frequencies.

If you link the two channels, it syncs their target curve, not the correction filter, and it still doesn't correct for the combined response.

With a single channel, if you have a separate way to time align your subs, it will do an excellent job of correcting the combined response, as long as you subs have consistent phase. If they have inconsistent phase (like you will get with mixing sealed and ported subs), they will cancel at some frequencies but not others. For partial cancellation, Dirac can boost the frequencies (at the expense of headroom), but for frequencies with strong cancellation, a single channel of Dirac can't help.

So, you would probably have to live with some cancellation. For ideal results, it's better to have subs with consistent phase. The sure way to do that is to make sure all your subs are the same model and have matching filter settings on their amp panels.
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post #29466 of 29480 Old Yesterday, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
It can because it is capable of more than just a simple phase switch where all FR are changing phase. The issue will be that the different boxes will be in phase for some fr and out of phase for others. Dirac can correct for phase by frequency. It will not be as easy as an auto correct but using REW to verify it will be possible to get it to align. Also they will not run the same range, the ULF's 20-50, the growlers 50-100 and the 212's 100 and up. These frequency ranges will be verified but that is my best guess after over 1000 or so measurements in my room at various mic placements.
Wait...I just read your post more carefully. Like you said, since they are running in different frequencies, you are good!
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post #29467 of 29480 Old Yesterday, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
Wait...I just read your post more carefully. Like you said, since they are running in different frequencies, you are good!
Yes this will make it easier b/c there will be less total overlap.

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
Projector: Epson 8350
Screen: Seymour XD AT 138" diagonal 16:9
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post #29468 of 29480 Old Yesterday, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
They have me well under control. Here is Ajax at my wedding, Best Dog and Ring Bearer.

Cute little fella. I bet he doesn't get away with anything. Just like mine don't.
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post #29469 of 29480 Old Yesterday, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
The problem is that it doesn't have a way to properly correct the combined response for two channels.

If you use two sub channels with Dirac, it will measure them separately and correct them separately. The problem is that the combined response will be totally different than the individual response, so it is cutting and boosting the wrong frequencies.

If you link the two channels, it syncs their target curve, not the correction filter, and it still doesn't correct for the combined response.

With a single channel, if you have a separate way to time align your subs, it will do an excellent job of correcting the combined response, as long as you subs have consistent phase. If they have inconsistent phase (like you will get with mixing sealed and ported subs), they will cancel at some frequencies but not others. For partial cancellation, Dirac can boost the frequencies (at the expense of headroom), but for frequencies with strong cancellation, a single channel of Dirac can't help.

So, you would probably have to live with some cancellation. For ideal results, it's better to have subs with consistent phase. The sure way to do that is to make sure all your subs are the same model and have matching filter settings on their amp panels.
the multiple sub correction issue that you point out was also evident to me after my first go at it with Dirac and confirmation with REW. In the end I ended up "tricking" Dirac to do the right thing by moving the rear sub for Dirac correction and then moving it back to its place for REW verification. I kept re-trying until essentially it got the alignment correct and I could see improvements with each trial when checked with REW. This took me about 4hrs of trial and error to get it right. I would have just aligned with the minidsp but I didn't have quite enough time delay to compensate for my nearest vs furthest sub. If I get the growlers I will probably go ahead and get the mini 10x10 which not only has more channels but also has twice the delay capacity (15ms). I may even run the growlers as part of the mains, essentiall making them LCR 40hz and up and just use the OS ULF's for the LFE channel. Won't know until I try it though.

All I have to say is thank you to the developers of REW!

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
Projector: Epson 8350
Screen: Seymour XD AT 138" diagonal 16:9
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post #29470 of 29480 Old Yesterday, 01:08 PM
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post #29471 of 29480 Old Yesterday, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
the multiple sub correction issue that you point out was also evident to me after my first go at it with Dirac and confirmation with REW. In the end I ended up "tricking" Dirac to do the right thing by moving the rear sub for Dirac correction and then moving it back to its place for REW verification. I kept re-trying until essentially it got the alignment correct and I could see improvements with each trial when checked with REW. This took me about 4hrs of trial and error to get it right. I would have just aligned with the minidsp but I didn't have quite enough time delay to compensate for my nearest vs furthest sub. If I get the growlers I will probably go ahead and get the mini 10x10 which not only has more channels but also has twice the delay capacity (15ms). I may even run the growlers as part of the mains, essentiall making them LCR 40hz and up and just use the OS ULF's for the LFE channel. Won't know until I try it though.

All I have to say is thank you to the developers of REW!
Another way to get more delay might be to use the phase knob on the back of the sub. On some subs, the "phase" knob is actually a digital delay.
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post #29472 of 29480 Old Yesterday, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
Another way to get more delay might be to use the phase knob on the back of the sub. On some subs, the "phase" knob is actually a digital delay.
There is no phase knob on the back of a JTR sub. Only a gain..
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post #29473 of 29480 Old Today, 07:12 AM
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i've been searching the internet far and wide for some slanted/single 8's. if anyone knows someone looking to sell, please give me a shout!
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post #29474 of 29480 Unread Today, 01:14 PM
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i've been searching the internet far and wide for some slanted/single 8's. if anyone knows someone looking to sell, please give me a shout!
They don't come up too often and when they do...they don't last long. Have you thought about buying some (new) from Jeff?

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post #29475 of 29480 Unread Today, 01:34 PM
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yes of course, just as soon as my budget gets back in line after this past holiday weekend
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post #29476 of 29480 Unread Today, 01:46 PM
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yes of course, just as soon as my budget gets back in line after this past holiday weekend
Since when did a budget ever have anything to do with JTR Speakers.

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post #29477 of 29480 Unread Today, 07:39 PM
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post #29478 of 29480 Unread Today, 08:09 PM
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@carp - are you going to get some OS Pros soon or what?! What's the frikkin holdup?
Haha, I'd love to!! No space until I can move my screen closer and I need 4K for that! I'm trying to follow Luke's advice, this hobby is a marathon not a sprint. Eventually I think it would be pretty cool to have 2 OS's and 2 OS pros stacked on top of the OS's behind the screen.
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post #29479 of 29480 Unread Today, 08:44 PM
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Haha, I'd love to!! No space until I can move my screen closer and I need 4K for that! I'm trying to follow Luke's advice, this hobby is a marathon not a sprint. Eventually I think it would be pretty cool to have 2 OS's and 2 OS pros stacked on top of the OS's behind the screen.
And what will you do with all those sealed subs you have?

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post #29480 of 29480 Unread Today, 08:57 PM
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And what will you do with all those sealed subs you have?
I could be wrong about this but I think that horns play well with sealed down low since below tune the horn sub acts just like a sealed sub. I could run the sealed subs just from 20hz and down - while I'm at it replace all the drivers with HST's!!!

Haha, pretty much just day dreaming at this point.
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post #29481 of 29480 Unread Today, 09:48 PM
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I could be wrong about this but I think that horns play well with sealed down low since below tune the horn sub acts just like a sealed sub. I could run the sealed subs just from 20hz and down - while I'm at it replace all the drivers with HST's!!!

Haha, pretty much just day dreaming at this point.
this is true because the OS is actually a sealed driver cabinet placed in a horn. I know because I looked

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
Projector: Epson 8350
Screen: Seymour XD AT 138" diagonal 16:9
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