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Old 06-05-2015, 08:53 AM
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How to start a new JTR system from scratch (2015)

Hi guys.

If I start building a new JTR system, later on this year (within the next 6-12 months).... where do you recommend I start?

Given the cost of JTRs, I probably can't afford more than 3-4 speakers at first. As such, I can't afford a full 5.1 or 7.2 system now, or anything like that..... but I could probably swing a 2.1, 2.2, or 3.1, or 3.0. I'd add extra subs or speakers later, incrementally.

With that said... what would be the most intelligent way to start?

Obviously I need at least 2 mains to start.
  • What would be a good choice for the 2 mains? .... 228s, 212s, something else from JTR? (Keep in mind, the first 2 mains could eventually be moved to surrounds, as budget permits... but I want everything in the future to still sonically match)


What should I add after the 2 mains?
  • 1 center + 1 sub?
  • 1 center, no sub?
  • 2 subs?
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Old 06-05-2015, 09:10 AM
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Start with a pair of 210RT and go from there. If you wan a sub make that your next choice, then center, and last surrounds. The phantom center the coaxial compression driver presents is un believable.
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Old 06-05-2015, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by countryWV View Post
Start with a pair of 210RT and go from here. If you wan a sub make that your next choice then center and last surrounds. The phantom center the coaxial compression driver presents is un believable.
Fair enough. I noticed that the 210 RTs are almost identical in size to the Klipsch Rf-7iis that I used to own.... even as far as the same size woofers and speaker configuration.

Would the 210RTs produce substantially more bass than the RF-7iis? Would they be adequate without a sub?

Secondly, what center and surrounds are intended to match the 210RTs?
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Old 06-05-2015, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post
Hi guys.

If I start building a new JTR system, later on this year (within the next 6-12 months).... where do you recommend I start?

Given the cost of JTRs, I probably can't afford more than 3-4 speakers at first. As such, I can't afford a full 5.1 or 7.2 system now, or anything like that..... but I could probably swing a 2.1, 2.2, or 3.1, or 3.0. I'd add extra subs or speakers later, incrementally.

With that said... what would be the most intelligent way to start?

Obviously I need at least 2 mains to start.
  • What would be a good choice for the 2 mains? .... 228s, 212s, something else from JTR? (Keep in mind, the first 2 mains could eventually be moved to surrounds, as budget permits... but I want everything in the future to still sonically match)


What should I add after the 2 mains?
  • 1 center + 1 sub?
  • 1 center, no sub?
  • 2 subs?

I have heard most of the line up from JTR and if I were in your shoes I would buy 2 210's hands down. They sound fantastic and also sound like a full range speaker when it comes to music. I was so impressed when I heard them a couple of months ago. If you buy 212's or 228's you wouldn't be able to listen to music without a sub, with the 210's it's not a problem at all.

Another thing about the 210's. When I saw them I thought, "wow, normal people could put these in a living room because they don't look huge!!" To me they looked like a tiny and "cute" version of my 215's. For their size they are capable of incredible amounts of bass.

Now, if you decide to get 2 speakers and a sub you could go with the 212's and then you could use an AVR to power the speakers instead of a separate amp.

Something about those 210's though... that would be my choice right now if I were buying speakers for my living room today.

Having said that, before you do anything go audition some JTR speakers. I remember back when you considering buying my 212's there was a guy in your town that posted that you could come listen to his JTR speakers. It should be in the classified thread, I can look it up if you need.
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Old 06-05-2015, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by countryWV View Post
Start with a pair of 210RT and go from there. If you wan a sub make that your next choice, then center, and last surrounds. The phantom center the coaxial compression driver presents is un believable.
Ha, you beat me to it!!
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Old 06-05-2015, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post
Fair enough. I noticed that the 210 RTs are almost identical in size to the Klipsch Rf-7iis that I used to own.... even as far as the same size woofers and speaker configuration.

Would the 210RTs produce substantially more bass than the RF-7iis? Would they be adequate without a sub?

Secondly, what center and surrounds are intended to match the 210RTs?
More mid bass then the 212HT also. Subs are not required but may be preferred. This is something you can decide after owning the pair of 210RT.

The center would be the 210RM and as always any of the S8 series would be great for surrounds.

This would be a great 3 step buying process.
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Old 06-05-2015, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post
Fair enough. I noticed that the 210 RTs are almost identical in size to the Klipsch Rf-7iis that I used to own.... even as far as the same size woofers and speaker configuration.

Would the 210RTs produce substantially more bass than the RF-7iis? Would they be adequate without a sub?

Secondly, what center and surrounds are intended to match the 210RTs?
I've heard the RF 7's, but I'm not sure about the bass comparison with the 210's. I would think that the 210's would have more bass capability because they can handle up to 2000 watts. I don't think the rf 7's can handle that much but not positive.

What would stand out the most would be the clairty of the midrange and highs on the 210's the compression driver on the 210's is much higher quality than what is used on the rf-7.
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Old 06-05-2015, 09:30 AM
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Subs should always be required
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Old 06-05-2015, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
Subs should always be required
They are at my house.

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Old 06-05-2015, 09:37 AM
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That sounds like a plan then. I will plan on getting 2 210RTs in a nice veneer finish as budget permits. I will then add a sub, center, and surrounds.

Or perhaps if I win the lottery, the 210s will become my surrounds for some 215s.
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Old 06-05-2015, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
I have heard most of the line up from JTR and if I were in your shoes I would buy 2 210's hands down. They sound fantastic and also sound like a full range speaker when it comes to music. I was so impressed when I heard them a couple of months ago. If you buy 212's or 228's you wouldn't be able to listen to music without a sub, with the 210's it's not a problem at all.

Another thing about the 210's. When I saw them I thought, "wow, normal people could put these in a living room because they don't look huge!!" To me they looked like a tiny and "cute" version of my 215's. For their size they are capable of incredible amounts of bass.

Now, if you decide to get 2 speakers and a sub you could go with the 212's and then you could use an AVR to power the speakers instead of a separate amp.

Something about those 210's though... that would be my choice right now if I were buying speakers for my living room today.

Having said that, before you do anything go audition some JTR speakers. I remember back when you considering buying my 212's there was a guy in your town that posted that you could come listen to his JTR speakers. It should be in the classified thread, I can look it up if you need.
I take it that you have listened to the 210s in person? Are you that impressed with them, vs other JTR offerings?

The 210 seems like the "mystery" JTR speaker.... almost noone has posted about them, and it seems like almost noone owns them (at least from what I have seen). Everyone seems to own the 228s, 212s, or 215 towers. This is odd to me, because the JTR 210 is the most "conventional" looking speaker in the JTR lineup. It looks almost the same size as many other commercial tower speakers, like the Rf-7iis.

The 228s and 212s are awkardly huge "bookshelf" type speakers that really can't be placed on a bookshelf... they require stands. The 215s are shockingly huge, and also very expensive... I'd assume that more people would own 210s.
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Old 06-05-2015, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post
That sounds like a plan then. I will plan on getting 2 210RTs in a nice veneer finish as budget permits. I will then add a sub, center, and surrounds.

Or perhaps if I win the lottery, the 210s will become my surrounds for some 215s.

Nice choice, I'm a bit jealous. I would love to own a pair of the 210's for the living room, especially in a nice finish.
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Old 06-05-2015, 10:14 AM
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Nice choice, I'm a bit jealous. I would love to own a pair of the 210's for the living room, especially in a nice finish.
If I ever dump the LS-6's I think they would be nice replacements. Get some bare cabinets from Jeff and do a custom veneer of some sort
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Old 06-05-2015, 10:19 AM
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If I ever dump the LS-6's I think they would be nice replacements. Get some bare cabinets from Jeff and do a custom veneer of some sort
Do you run the LS-6 with the bass flat or do you boost it? From the pictures it looks like you would get some nice bass boost from the wall right behind them so maybe boosting is not needed?
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Old 06-05-2015, 10:31 AM
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The LS-6 has an adjustable jumper for what size room you are in. It bumps the low end accordingly. I get good reinforcement from the wall, I have the jumper set to larger than what my room is (Moar bass) AND I have about +4 to +6dB boost on the onkyo.... so YES
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Old 06-05-2015, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
The LS-6 has an adjustable jumper for what size room you are in. It bumps the low end accordingly. I get good reinforcement from the wall, I have the jumper set to larger than what my room is (Moar bass) AND I have about +4 to +6dB boost on the onkyo.... so YES
On my LS6's, all the jumper does is reduce output at 100 Hz just like a parametric EQ filter with less reduction at the large room setting. Disconnect the jumper altogether for no reduction. I can send you some measurements later this weekend when I get back from camping.

Danny says the reduction should be at 70 Hz, but in my close mic measurements it was at 100 Hz. It isn't a rolloff, but a dip in the frequency response to reduce "room boom" or "room overload," whatever those mean.

From the thread at audiocircle:
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Originally Posted by Danny @ AC
If you have a real room suck out in that region, and really need more bottom end in that range, then you can just unplug the bass management system and you will have no bass attenuation at all. That will give you a lot of bass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny @ AC
It is an LCR network shunt to ground after the woofer network. The trap area is centered at 70Hz. This is a typical range where a lot of unwanted room gain can take place with a speaker this large. The adjustments vary the resistive load across the circuit. More resistance means the LCR circuit is less reactive and the bass is effected less. Less resistance means a more reactive circuit allowing more power to return back to the amp verses passing to the speakers. So bass output is lessened.

The circuit centered at 70Hz has a first order slope in each direction regardless of resistance level.
You can see from this impedance chart of the LS-6's bass module how it is supposed to work.
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Old 06-05-2015, 11:59 AM
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hmm, good to know!
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Old 06-05-2015, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post
Hi guys.

If I start building a new JTR system, later on this year (within the next 6-12 months).... where do you recommend I start?

Given the cost of JTRs, I probably can't afford more than 3-4 speakers at first. As such, I can't afford a full 5.1 or 7.2 system now, or anything like that..... but I could probably swing a 2.1, 2.2, or 3.1, or 3.0. I'd add extra subs or speakers later, incrementally.

With that said... what would be the most intelligent way to start?

Obviously I need at least 2 mains to start.
  • What would be a good choice for the 2 mains? .... 228s, 212s, something else from JTR? (Keep in mind, the first 2 mains could eventually be moved to surrounds, as budget permits... but I want everything in the future to still sonically match)
What should I add after the 2 mains?
  • 1 center + 1 sub?
  • 1 center, no sub?
  • 2 subs?
You don't mention your room or your budget but both of those things would have an impact on which JTR's you choose. I believe you said earlier you don't have a dedicated space....so do you have to consider WAF?

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Old 06-05-2015, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
I have heard most of the line up from JTR and if I were in your shoes I would buy 2 210's hands down. They sound fantastic and also sound like a full range speaker when it comes to music. I was so impressed when I heard them a couple of months ago. If you buy 212's or 228's you wouldn't be able to listen to music without a sub, with the 210's it's not a problem at all.

Another thing about the 210's. When I saw them I thought, "wow, normal people could put these in a living room because they don't look huge!!" To me they looked like a tiny and "cute" version of my 215's. For their size they are capable of incredible amounts of bass.

Now, if you decide to get 2 speakers and a sub you could go with the 212's and then you could use an AVR to power the speakers instead of a separate amp.

Something about those 210's though... that would be my choice right now if I were buying speakers for my living room today.

Having said that, before you do anything go audition some JTR speakers. I remember back when you considering buying my 212's there was a guy in your town that posted that you could come listen to his JTR speakers. It should be in the classified thread, I can look it up if you need.
Haha...I like how you remind us that we are segregated from "normal" people
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Old 06-05-2015, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post
That sounds like a plan then. I will plan on getting 2 210RTs in a nice veneer finish as budget permits. I will then add a sub, center, and surrounds.

Or perhaps if I win the lottery, the 210s will become my surrounds for some 215s.
I think this is the best option right now for anyone who will be listening to music and movies. Most don't have the 210RT since they are so new...and we're all sitting pretty with what we have already...tough to justify an upgrade. There was someone who posted a 210RT review several weeks ago I believe...try a search...I'm on my phone, otherwise I'd try to find the link for you.

The other thing you have to consider is powering the 210RT properly, so the expense of an amp needs to be considered into your budget. The question is, would you rather put that money towards a sub...then you'd just get 212HT and run off an avr...then EQ to your taste...your decision. Personally, I would do the 210RT to hear music full range and just save up more to get amps and sub(s). I do sometimes think about going full range and consider going with the 215RT...but like I said, hard to justify considering how good things sound already.
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Old 06-05-2015, 04:21 PM
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Haha...I like how you remind us that we are segregated from "normal" people

Haha, everyone following this thread knows it's true.
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Old 06-05-2015, 04:29 PM
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I take it that you have listened to the 210s in person? Are you that impressed with them, vs other JTR offerings?

The 210 seems like the "mystery" JTR speaker.... almost noone has posted about them, and it seems like almost noone owns them (at least from what I have seen). Everyone seems to own the 228s, 212s, or 215 towers. This is odd to me, because the JTR 210 is the most "conventional" looking speaker in the JTR lineup. It looks almost the same size as many other commercial tower speakers, like the Rf-7iis.

The 228s and 212s are awkardly huge "bookshelf" type speakers that really can't be placed on a bookshelf... they require stands. The 215s are shockingly huge, and also very expensive... I'd assume that more people would own 210s.
Jeff brought a pair of 210RT's to the Iowa gtg, and they got alot of praise from various people on here who heard them. They do indeed sound very good and very clear.
He played a tribal/kettle drum (I think) track on them which they handled w/o breaking a sweat and it was a pretty deep sounding track.

You may want a sub eventually, but starting with these I don't think you can go wrong. Just make sure to give them the power they deserve, because that is an experience. =)
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Old 06-05-2015, 05:44 PM
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Jeff brought a pair of 210RT's to the Iowa gtg, and they got alot of praise from various people on here who heard them. They do indeed sound very good and very clear.
He played a tribal/kettle drum (I think) track on them which they handled w/o breaking a sweat and it was a pretty deep sounding track.

You may want a sub eventually, but starting with these I don't think you can go wrong. Just make sure to give them the power they deserve, because that is an experience. =)
Do you know what Jeff used to power the 210RT?

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Old 06-05-2015, 06:30 PM
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Do you know what Jeff used to power the 210RT?
DesertDome brought his Cherry amps.
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Old 06-05-2015, 06:33 PM
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DesertDome brought his Cherry amps.
Yeah I think they were the 400 watt monoblock? (800 watt?)
Or am I confusing with the other setup?
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Old 06-06-2015, 02:09 AM
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989 pages, and 29653 posts! wow.

Ok, leaving $$ out of the equation, which would be the preferred LCRs for a small (14'x15'x8') theater: 3 x Triple 8s, or 3 x 228HTs?

Thanks.

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Old 06-06-2015, 02:31 AM
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989 pages, and 29653 posts! wow.

Ok, leaving $$ out of the equation, which would be the preferred LCRs for a small (14'x15'x8') theater: 3 x Triple 8s, or 3 x 228HTs?

Thanks.

- s.west

Honestly since you said to leave money out of the equation, I'd say neither of those choices. You have a wide room that could easily accommodate the larger speakers so I'd suggest going with 210RT's or 212HT's. And if budget was a concern I'd say go with the 212TT's.
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Old 06-06-2015, 03:17 AM
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Well, room is a consideration. And I was a little sloppy with my dimensions before. Here's a picture from just behind the front row center seat.


The room is 14'w x 13'9"d x 8'h, with ~2' additional behind the screen/equipment rack, and that rounded wall you see to the right of the screen (the stairs up, are behind that wall).

So, the room is a little 'busy'. I have been wanting to get to 3 identical LCRs for a while now. Those are some B&W 803 series II (vintage 1997), and there is an B&W FCM8 behind the screen. I should have snatched up another couple of FCM8s when they were still appearing on e-bay, but I haven't seen any for quite a while.

Anyway, that's what I have to work with. So, again, if the choice is between the Triple 8s or the 228HTs, which is it?

Thanks for the response.

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Old 06-06-2015, 03:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
Honestly since you said to leave money out of the equation, I'd say neither of those choices. You have a wide room that could easily accommodate the larger speakers so I'd suggest going with 210RT's or 212HT's. And if budget was a concern I'd say go with the 212TT's.
So I do have to ask, as the B&W 803's are a favorite of mine, what are you looking for beyond the 803's?
The JTR's you are looking at will likely play louder and more clearly when loud, but I would guess the T8's won't sound as good as the 803's at most reasonable volumes. (Not sure on the 228's)

I agree with Jbrown that if you are looking for a step up in quality you should be looking at the 212TT's, 212 HT's, or 210RT's. I would say the clear step up would be the 210RT's, they are at least as good as the 803's at lower volumes and stay that way as you turn up the volume until your ears give out. Some say the 212HT's have and even better high end than the 210's by a small bit - I must confess they sound very close to me the 210RT's can play lower.

Do you have a sub stashed somewhere in there?

NOTE - Yikes! Jeff has changed the site. It looks like the 212HT is what was the 212TT was, and there is now a 212HTR which looks to be the original 212HT.(?)
I believe starting with the 212HTR and into the RT series the compression driver is a better model.

FYI - If you are purchasing new the T8s are not available anymore (At least on the site).

Last edited by theblackangus; 06-06-2015 at 12:34 PM.
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Old 06-06-2015, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swest View Post
Well, room is a consideration. And I was a little sloppy with my dimensions before. Here's a picture from just behind the front row center seat.


The room is 14'w x 13'9"d x 8'h, with ~2' additional behind the screen/equipment rack, and that rounded wall you see to the right of the screen (the stairs up, are behind that wall).

So, the room is a little 'busy'. I have been wanting to get to 3 identical LCRs for a while now. Those are some B&W 803 series II (vintage 1997), and there is an B&W FCM8 behind the screen. I should have snatched up another couple of FCM8s when they were still appearing on e-bay, but I haven't seen any for quite a while.

Anyway, that's what I have to work with. So, again, if the choice is between the Triple 8s or the 228HTs, which is it?

Thanks for the response.

- s.west
The 228 will have a more refined sound and a narrower dispersion pattern that should suit your room. I agree that the 210 speakers would be a better option for music as they are capable full range speakers and would provide an excellent 2 channel experience minus subs. Much depends upon your personal preferences and listening habits. I loved the great sounding commercial brand speakers I owned but they never allowed me to crank up the sound for the occasional live concert experience. Ironically I almost never crank the volume anymore but I have become accustomed to effortless dynamic capability of these high efficiency designs and so for me, there's no going back.

I think that Jeff has a pair of this Single 8 speakers that he sends out for eval purposes. That would give you a better idea about the "JTR sound" as it will be more aggressive than the laid back B&W's IMHO.
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