Official JTR speaker thread - Page 988 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #29611 of 30452 Old 06-05-2015, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
I thought they sounded good. But for the price, amps, etc..I just really did not hear anything earth shattering. Still I would like a very good demo and like you, I would like to hear them crossed and full range, but till then… I was actually blow away by the JTR's and dual OS demo. Like you, I just love the top end in the 212HT's and that is why I still own them! I guess if I was really into music, which I am, but I don't really sit down all that often and listen as I am probably 80% HT, I would probably look to a studio monitor like the M2 if I was 100% music. I know for awhile I was listening to allot of music when I got the 215RT's, but that has slowly dissipated. I am looking to get back into more music and I have been eyeing up the Sony HAP-Z1ES and I think I am going to get it. It will be nice to put all my music on that baby and sit back and get back into some music again.
That sony thing seems like a cool unit, but is pricey! Wow. My belief system is still that restoration of "lost" information from compressed files is just that....a lost cause. Looking at the stats, all things upconverted to DSD sounds fun, I just don't know if it is $2k worth of fun. I still have a 3TB drive and a NAS sitting in storage I have had for a year and never installed. Seems a much cheaper way to have access to all your music though

I know after this post some audiophile is gonna come in here and slap me
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post #29612 of 30452 Old 06-05-2015, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
I know after this post some audiophile is gonna come in here and slap me
I'm pretty sure your safe on this thread.
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post #29613 of 30452 Old 06-05-2015, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post
I remember reading that basically a full range may be required for overheads, but didn't give it too much weight...I was thinking if one has enough extension coming from the subs, why worry about any of the surrounds going low. Now that you mention it again, I'm thinking it could be so certain lower frequency effects from overheads could be localized...such as thunder and other bass that would be above realistically...so makes sense in this regard....

Sounds like I may need to start looking for 40hz capable overheads...8340a perhaps. My s8lp (80Hz?) nor my eD6c (?Hz)won't cut it.
Well I have staked out a minority position on this one (seems to be my MO) so be careful and try the S8's and or eD6c's before you commit. Unless of course you come across a deal like I did on the 8340A's. I'd like to see what Jeff could come up with perhaps using the very capable 10 woofer in the 210 and a coaxial CD in a cabinet similar to the 8340 (e.g. 20° front baffle) . It would be spendy and that might be a show stopper but I'd be interested so he could sell at least 4 of em .

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post #29614 of 30452 Old 06-05-2015, 07:59 AM
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This interesting post by Bill Fiztmaurice in another thread is talking about speaker efficiency/fidelity. It really puts in perspective why that expensive CD Jeff uses is so essential to the success of his designs. Old Bill is a curmudgeon but I like him (and we have similar signature lines) .
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeTime View Post
There is a serious thread, posted by the resident AVS HiFi reviewer, for the Behringer B215XL. Plastic, and about $200 (just went up a little). Haven't heard it, but I expect it is decent.Quote:

That depends on the reviewer's definition of 'decent'. The main shortcoming of cheap PA speakers is that they tend to use too large a woofer in too small a cabinet for it to function as well as possible, along with a HF section that's crossed over way too high. The B215XL is no exception. The cabinet is perhaps half the volume that a fifteen requires to get the lows that a fifteen is capable of delivering. The crossover to the HF horn is at 2kHz, a full octave higher than a fifteen should be run, as fifteens will start beaming around 1kHz. I'm sure it works about as well as any other PA speaker in that price range, but frankly that doesn't say much. You really do get what you pay for. OTOH you don't need to spend $5k for a well engineered PA speaker any more than you need to spend $5k for a well engineered hi-fi speaker. JTR would be one example, and unlike Klipsch, they really do have 100dB sensitivity.
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post #29615 of 30452 Old 06-05-2015, 08:28 AM
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I do not like running my subs over 80 Hz either as I can localize subs over 80 Hz as well. For just front subs I can get away with a little higher but anywhere else in the room I prefer to cross them at 60-80.



Great advice and one I wasn't aware of since I haven't spent much time with the new 3d formats. Thanks.
I've got an even better piece of advice for you. Hire Bill Fitzmaurice as a consultant on any speaker designs you are considering. I believe in the 10,000 hour rule (Outliers) in a general theory sort of way.
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post #29616 of 30452 Old 06-05-2015, 08:53 AM
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How to start a new JTR system from scratch (2015)

Hi guys.

If I start building a new JTR system, later on this year (within the next 6-12 months).... where do you recommend I start?

Given the cost of JTRs, I probably can't afford more than 3-4 speakers at first. As such, I can't afford a full 5.1 or 7.2 system now, or anything like that..... but I could probably swing a 2.1, 2.2, or 3.1, or 3.0. I'd add extra subs or speakers later, incrementally.

With that said... what would be the most intelligent way to start?

Obviously I need at least 2 mains to start.
  • What would be a good choice for the 2 mains? .... 228s, 212s, something else from JTR? (Keep in mind, the first 2 mains could eventually be moved to surrounds, as budget permits... but I want everything in the future to still sonically match)


What should I add after the 2 mains?
  • 1 center + 1 sub?
  • 1 center, no sub?
  • 2 subs?
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post #29617 of 30452 Old 06-05-2015, 09:10 AM
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Start with a pair of 210RT and go from there. If you wan a sub make that your next choice, then center, and last surrounds. The phantom center the coaxial compression driver presents is un believable.
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post #29618 of 30452 Old 06-05-2015, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by countryWV View Post
Start with a pair of 210RT and go from here. If you wan a sub make that your next choice then center and last surrounds. The phantom center the coaxial compression driver presents is un believable.
Fair enough. I noticed that the 210 RTs are almost identical in size to the Klipsch Rf-7iis that I used to own.... even as far as the same size woofers and speaker configuration.

Would the 210RTs produce substantially more bass than the RF-7iis? Would they be adequate without a sub?

Secondly, what center and surrounds are intended to match the 210RTs?
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post #29619 of 30452 Old 06-05-2015, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post
Hi guys.

If I start building a new JTR system, later on this year (within the next 6-12 months).... where do you recommend I start?

Given the cost of JTRs, I probably can't afford more than 3-4 speakers at first. As such, I can't afford a full 5.1 or 7.2 system now, or anything like that..... but I could probably swing a 2.1, 2.2, or 3.1, or 3.0. I'd add extra subs or speakers later, incrementally.

With that said... what would be the most intelligent way to start?

Obviously I need at least 2 mains to start.
  • What would be a good choice for the 2 mains? .... 228s, 212s, something else from JTR? (Keep in mind, the first 2 mains could eventually be moved to surrounds, as budget permits... but I want everything in the future to still sonically match)


What should I add after the 2 mains?
  • 1 center + 1 sub?
  • 1 center, no sub?
  • 2 subs?

I have heard most of the line up from JTR and if I were in your shoes I would buy 2 210's hands down. They sound fantastic and also sound like a full range speaker when it comes to music. I was so impressed when I heard them a couple of months ago. If you buy 212's or 228's you wouldn't be able to listen to music without a sub, with the 210's it's not a problem at all.

Another thing about the 210's. When I saw them I thought, "wow, normal people could put these in a living room because they don't look huge!!" To me they looked like a tiny and "cute" version of my 215's. For their size they are capable of incredible amounts of bass.

Now, if you decide to get 2 speakers and a sub you could go with the 212's and then you could use an AVR to power the speakers instead of a separate amp.

Something about those 210's though... that would be my choice right now if I were buying speakers for my living room today.

Having said that, before you do anything go audition some JTR speakers. I remember back when you considering buying my 212's there was a guy in your town that posted that you could come listen to his JTR speakers. It should be in the classified thread, I can look it up if you need.
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post #29620 of 30452 Old 06-05-2015, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by countryWV View Post
Start with a pair of 210RT and go from there. If you wan a sub make that your next choice, then center, and last surrounds. The phantom center the coaxial compression driver presents is un believable.
Ha, you beat me to it!!
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post #29621 of 30452 Old 06-05-2015, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post
Fair enough. I noticed that the 210 RTs are almost identical in size to the Klipsch Rf-7iis that I used to own.... even as far as the same size woofers and speaker configuration.

Would the 210RTs produce substantially more bass than the RF-7iis? Would they be adequate without a sub?

Secondly, what center and surrounds are intended to match the 210RTs?
More mid bass then the 212HT also. Subs are not required but may be preferred. This is something you can decide after owning the pair of 210RT.

The center would be the 210RM and as always any of the S8 series would be great for surrounds.

This would be a great 3 step buying process.
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post #29622 of 30452 Old 06-05-2015, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post
Fair enough. I noticed that the 210 RTs are almost identical in size to the Klipsch Rf-7iis that I used to own.... even as far as the same size woofers and speaker configuration.

Would the 210RTs produce substantially more bass than the RF-7iis? Would they be adequate without a sub?

Secondly, what center and surrounds are intended to match the 210RTs?
I've heard the RF 7's, but I'm not sure about the bass comparison with the 210's. I would think that the 210's would have more bass capability because they can handle up to 2000 watts. I don't think the rf 7's can handle that much but not positive.

What would stand out the most would be the clairty of the midrange and highs on the 210's the compression driver on the 210's is much higher quality than what is used on the rf-7.
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Subs should always be required
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post #29624 of 30452 Old 06-05-2015, 09:34 AM
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Subs should always be required
They are at my house.

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post #29625 of 30452 Old 06-05-2015, 09:37 AM
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That sounds like a plan then. I will plan on getting 2 210RTs in a nice veneer finish as budget permits. I will then add a sub, center, and surrounds.

Or perhaps if I win the lottery, the 210s will become my surrounds for some 215s.
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post #29626 of 30452 Old 06-05-2015, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
I have heard most of the line up from JTR and if I were in your shoes I would buy 2 210's hands down. They sound fantastic and also sound like a full range speaker when it comes to music. I was so impressed when I heard them a couple of months ago. If you buy 212's or 228's you wouldn't be able to listen to music without a sub, with the 210's it's not a problem at all.

Another thing about the 210's. When I saw them I thought, "wow, normal people could put these in a living room because they don't look huge!!" To me they looked like a tiny and "cute" version of my 215's. For their size they are capable of incredible amounts of bass.

Now, if you decide to get 2 speakers and a sub you could go with the 212's and then you could use an AVR to power the speakers instead of a separate amp.

Something about those 210's though... that would be my choice right now if I were buying speakers for my living room today.

Having said that, before you do anything go audition some JTR speakers. I remember back when you considering buying my 212's there was a guy in your town that posted that you could come listen to his JTR speakers. It should be in the classified thread, I can look it up if you need.
I take it that you have listened to the 210s in person? Are you that impressed with them, vs other JTR offerings?

The 210 seems like the "mystery" JTR speaker.... almost noone has posted about them, and it seems like almost noone owns them (at least from what I have seen). Everyone seems to own the 228s, 212s, or 215 towers. This is odd to me, because the JTR 210 is the most "conventional" looking speaker in the JTR lineup. It looks almost the same size as many other commercial tower speakers, like the Rf-7iis.

The 228s and 212s are awkardly huge "bookshelf" type speakers that really can't be placed on a bookshelf... they require stands. The 215s are shockingly huge, and also very expensive... I'd assume that more people would own 210s.
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post #29627 of 30452 Old 06-05-2015, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post
That sounds like a plan then. I will plan on getting 2 210RTs in a nice veneer finish as budget permits. I will then add a sub, center, and surrounds.

Or perhaps if I win the lottery, the 210s will become my surrounds for some 215s.

Nice choice, I'm a bit jealous. I would love to own a pair of the 210's for the living room, especially in a nice finish.
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post #29628 of 30452 Old 06-05-2015, 10:14 AM
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Nice choice, I'm a bit jealous. I would love to own a pair of the 210's for the living room, especially in a nice finish.
If I ever dump the LS-6's I think they would be nice replacements. Get some bare cabinets from Jeff and do a custom veneer of some sort

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post #29629 of 30452 Old 06-05-2015, 10:19 AM
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If I ever dump the LS-6's I think they would be nice replacements. Get some bare cabinets from Jeff and do a custom veneer of some sort
Do you run the LS-6 with the bass flat or do you boost it? From the pictures it looks like you would get some nice bass boost from the wall right behind them so maybe boosting is not needed?
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post #29630 of 30452 Old 06-05-2015, 10:31 AM
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The LS-6 has an adjustable jumper for what size room you are in. It bumps the low end accordingly. I get good reinforcement from the wall, I have the jumper set to larger than what my room is (Moar bass) AND I have about +4 to +6dB boost on the onkyo.... so YES

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post #29631 of 30452 Old 06-05-2015, 11:42 AM
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The LS-6 has an adjustable jumper for what size room you are in. It bumps the low end accordingly. I get good reinforcement from the wall, I have the jumper set to larger than what my room is (Moar bass) AND I have about +4 to +6dB boost on the onkyo.... so YES
On my LS6's, all the jumper does is reduce output at 100 Hz just like a parametric EQ filter with less reduction at the large room setting. Disconnect the jumper altogether for no reduction. I can send you some measurements later this weekend when I get back from camping.

Danny says the reduction should be at 70 Hz, but in my close mic measurements it was at 100 Hz. It isn't a rolloff, but a dip in the frequency response to reduce "room boom" or "room overload," whatever those mean.

From the thread at audiocircle:
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Originally Posted by Danny @ AC
If you have a real room suck out in that region, and really need more bottom end in that range, then you can just unplug the bass management system and you will have no bass attenuation at all. That will give you a lot of bass.
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Originally Posted by Danny @ AC
It is an LCR network shunt to ground after the woofer network. The trap area is centered at 70Hz. This is a typical range where a lot of unwanted room gain can take place with a speaker this large. The adjustments vary the resistive load across the circuit. More resistance means the LCR circuit is less reactive and the bass is effected less. Less resistance means a more reactive circuit allowing more power to return back to the amp verses passing to the speakers. So bass output is lessened.

The circuit centered at 70Hz has a first order slope in each direction regardless of resistance level.
You can see from this impedance chart of the LS-6's bass module how it is supposed to work.
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post #29632 of 30452 Old 06-05-2015, 11:59 AM
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hmm, good to know!

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post #29633 of 30452 Old 06-05-2015, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post
Hi guys.

If I start building a new JTR system, later on this year (within the next 6-12 months).... where do you recommend I start?

Given the cost of JTRs, I probably can't afford more than 3-4 speakers at first. As such, I can't afford a full 5.1 or 7.2 system now, or anything like that..... but I could probably swing a 2.1, 2.2, or 3.1, or 3.0. I'd add extra subs or speakers later, incrementally.

With that said... what would be the most intelligent way to start?

Obviously I need at least 2 mains to start.
  • What would be a good choice for the 2 mains? .... 228s, 212s, something else from JTR? (Keep in mind, the first 2 mains could eventually be moved to surrounds, as budget permits... but I want everything in the future to still sonically match)
What should I add after the 2 mains?
  • 1 center + 1 sub?
  • 1 center, no sub?
  • 2 subs?
You don't mention your room or your budget but both of those things would have an impact on which JTR's you choose. I believe you said earlier you don't have a dedicated space....so do you have to consider WAF?

Nabs17

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post #29634 of 30452 Old 06-05-2015, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
I have heard most of the line up from JTR and if I were in your shoes I would buy 2 210's hands down. They sound fantastic and also sound like a full range speaker when it comes to music. I was so impressed when I heard them a couple of months ago. If you buy 212's or 228's you wouldn't be able to listen to music without a sub, with the 210's it's not a problem at all.

Another thing about the 210's. When I saw them I thought, "wow, normal people could put these in a living room because they don't look huge!!" To me they looked like a tiny and "cute" version of my 215's. For their size they are capable of incredible amounts of bass.

Now, if you decide to get 2 speakers and a sub you could go with the 212's and then you could use an AVR to power the speakers instead of a separate amp.

Something about those 210's though... that would be my choice right now if I were buying speakers for my living room today.

Having said that, before you do anything go audition some JTR speakers. I remember back when you considering buying my 212's there was a guy in your town that posted that you could come listen to his JTR speakers. It should be in the classified thread, I can look it up if you need.
Haha...I like how you remind us that we are segregated from "normal" people
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post #29635 of 30452 Old 06-05-2015, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post
That sounds like a plan then. I will plan on getting 2 210RTs in a nice veneer finish as budget permits. I will then add a sub, center, and surrounds.

Or perhaps if I win the lottery, the 210s will become my surrounds for some 215s.
I think this is the best option right now for anyone who will be listening to music and movies. Most don't have the 210RT since they are so new...and we're all sitting pretty with what we have already...tough to justify an upgrade. There was someone who posted a 210RT review several weeks ago I believe...try a search...I'm on my phone, otherwise I'd try to find the link for you.

The other thing you have to consider is powering the 210RT properly, so the expense of an amp needs to be considered into your budget. The question is, would you rather put that money towards a sub...then you'd just get 212HT and run off an avr...then EQ to your taste...your decision. Personally, I would do the 210RT to hear music full range and just save up more to get amps and sub(s). I do sometimes think about going full range and consider going with the 215RT...but like I said, hard to justify considering how good things sound already.
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post #29636 of 30452 Old 06-05-2015, 04:21 PM
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Haha...I like how you remind us that we are segregated from "normal" people

Haha, everyone following this thread knows it's true.
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post #29637 of 30452 Old 06-05-2015, 04:29 PM
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I take it that you have listened to the 210s in person? Are you that impressed with them, vs other JTR offerings?

The 210 seems like the "mystery" JTR speaker.... almost noone has posted about them, and it seems like almost noone owns them (at least from what I have seen). Everyone seems to own the 228s, 212s, or 215 towers. This is odd to me, because the JTR 210 is the most "conventional" looking speaker in the JTR lineup. It looks almost the same size as many other commercial tower speakers, like the Rf-7iis.

The 228s and 212s are awkardly huge "bookshelf" type speakers that really can't be placed on a bookshelf... they require stands. The 215s are shockingly huge, and also very expensive... I'd assume that more people would own 210s.
Jeff brought a pair of 210RT's to the Iowa gtg, and they got alot of praise from various people on here who heard them. They do indeed sound very good and very clear.
He played a tribal/kettle drum (I think) track on them which they handled w/o breaking a sweat and it was a pretty deep sounding track.

You may want a sub eventually, but starting with these I don't think you can go wrong. Just make sure to give them the power they deserve, because that is an experience. =)
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post #29638 of 30452 Old 06-05-2015, 05:44 PM
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Jeff brought a pair of 210RT's to the Iowa gtg, and they got alot of praise from various people on here who heard them. They do indeed sound very good and very clear.
He played a tribal/kettle drum (I think) track on them which they handled w/o breaking a sweat and it was a pretty deep sounding track.

You may want a sub eventually, but starting with these I don't think you can go wrong. Just make sure to give them the power they deserve, because that is an experience. =)
Do you know what Jeff used to power the 210RT?

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post #29639 of 30452 Old 06-05-2015, 06:30 PM
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Do you know what Jeff used to power the 210RT?
DesertDome brought his Cherry amps.
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post #29640 of 30452 Old 06-05-2015, 06:33 PM
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DesertDome brought his Cherry amps.
Yeah I think they were the 400 watt monoblock? (800 watt?)
Or am I confusing with the other setup?
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