NEW WAF-1 speakers by Tweak City Audio - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 273 Old 09-06-2009, 11:35 AM
 
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Greetings all ... It is pretty clear that there are two people who have no interest in doing anything but stirring up any negatives possible in this thread.

Pardon me while I ignore them both.

If anyone has a question regarding the WAF-1's, feel free to ask here, or to visit our site.

Thank you.
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post #92 of 273 Old 09-06-2009, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

A pair is being sent out to Affordable Audio this week. We also have had several experienced audiophiles purchase a pair just to do comparisons on their own.

Great! I'll be looking forward to these reviews.

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post #93 of 273 Old 09-06-2009, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandarf View Post

For WAF name... They look a bit like 70s era speakers... Quite minimalist... They'd probably seem at home next to an 80's wooden turntable imho Probably not everyone's cup of tea. But for 230$ a pair, I guess that there's not too much competition.

**EDIT**
Ok maybe not, these are 200$, shipped, damn, nice looking speakers!!!



These are 90$... http://store.audioholics.com/shopima...-grillon_1.jpg

150$: http://store.audioholics.com/shopima..._nsb310_bi.jpg

These are 175$ http://www.energy-speakers.com/images/download/224.aspx

Actually, looks like there's many nice speakers at that price and under... Guess I'll have to add my two cents that visually, the WAFs don't seem to be anything too special for me either... Just doesn't do anything particular for me... Maybe the name is a bit presumptuous lol I'd be curious to see how they measure up with the above for example, both for performance and for the WAF

Some very good looking finds there Grandarf. If I were in the market for WAF speakers in the $200-300 / pair range, I would consider any one of those before the WAF-1. And surprisingly, most of those speakers come from companies with a history of producing good speakers. Even the new guys, EMP speakers, have some pretty impressive credentials.

I'm all for the little guy coming in and giving the big guys a run for their money, but Tweak City has some stiff competition here it seems.

Well actually, these were just my first 3 random findings at or below 200$, and the energies are from Future Shop at like 175$ But yeah, there doesn't seem to be any shortage of WAF speakers for less than 225$...

What did you mean by EMP having impressive credentials? They also seem to have some impressive towers for 400$ *shipped*: http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?p=2285029 Look-wise, they seem top notch to me, especially for 400$. "EMP is a subsidiary of RBH speakers". A couple years back the Energy Connoisseur cost more than that and looked a lot more plastic-y... http://shows.soundstagelive.com/show...y_speakers.jpg But even those have gone a long way, the last batch looks a lot better.


Yeah... These are 400$ shipped... Curved cabinet, sort of glossy veneer finish, wow... Looks a LOT more expensive than 400$...

There's a vid of a prototype of them here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lit335-tdmQ (skip to 5:07, about 3/5th), but yeah, there sure is a lot of very nice looking speakers out there... And did you see that rock speaker? wow! (ok I kid I kid lol) But seriously, lots of nice and good products out there... I guess visually, you need to have something really special to stand above the competition...
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post #94 of 273 Old 09-06-2009, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Grandarf View Post


What did you mean by EMP having impressive credentials? ... Seems like EMP and RBH are linked.

From the EMP website:
"Engineered Music Products (EMP) was founded in 2007 by industry professionals with over thirty years experience in designing, engineering and manufacturing high-performance loudspeakers for companies such as ParaSound, McIntosh, JBL, RBH Sound, Destination Audio and Fosgate."
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post #95 of 273 Old 09-06-2009, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Grandarf View Post


Yeah... These are 400$ shipped... Curved cabinet, sort of glossy veneer finish, wow... Looks a LOT more expensive than 400$...

My only concern, without having heard them, is that the bookshelfs are 7.5 pounds, and the towers are 35 pounds. Seems like the cabinets would have to be pretty thin and not all that inert. They are gorgeous though.
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post #96 of 273 Old 09-06-2009, 02:06 PM
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I think the WAF looks fine, although there definitely needs to be a matte black or satin black finish available. I have a question, why is the cone bluish? What material is that?

About those EMPs, they look very nice, but how do they sound? That makes me nervous; how are they able to have such a nice cabinet and be so inexpensive? Something has to give.
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post #97 of 273 Old 09-06-2009, 02:16 PM
 
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The woofer is a doped paper cone.

Some measurements are up on TCA"s website in the loudspeakers section.

Feel free to take a peak.
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post #98 of 273 Old 09-06-2009, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

A pair is being sent out to Affordable Audio this week. We also have had several experienced audiophiles purchase a pair just to do comparisons on their own.

It's interesting, you did a DBT on your speakers against others ?

This means you got a set up in your house which allowed for the switching between your speakers and other speakers in which no one knew the order, nor which speakers were being compared, until after the test ?

This is a very complicated process. Do you have a link to this ?


No one knew the order since my wife just plugged in each set randomly and I had all speakers behind a false wall with black speaker fabric very crude and simple

Each set of wires were labeled so she atleast plugged in the correct pairs. She never told me which ones but with speakers its easier to define which ones.

I had some Klipsch, B&Ws and Paradigms from friends.

Did not need a thread because I was not out to prove anything other then figuring out how good my DIY designs where. The hardest part of course is finding speakers that match them to start with and the Salk HT3 or HT4s are rather expensive to just demo and since I have Demoed Salk speakers in the past Im not sure asking for more would make Jim Salk happy.

I have to go through some more testing soon, I have 6 new sets of DIY speakers that will be done by the end of the month.

Anyways, I have posted before and I will post again. Im a fan of what you are doing!

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post #99 of 273 Old 09-06-2009, 06:42 PM
 
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Here is a pretty good quote about the MTM design vs. a 2 way monitor design, with the MTM being used in a vertical orientation.

Quote:
The MTM design offers wide horizontal dispersion with limited vertical dispersion, which will help minimize room effects by lessening the impact of floor and ceiling reflections. The two way monitor offers wide horizontal and vertical dispersion making it a more placement friendly loudspeaker while also making it more susceptible to room issues.

An MTM in the horizontal position will have excellent vertical dispersion with horizontal limits.

Three MTM speakers vertically, across the front, will make for an excellent performance.

And there are plenty of systems with MTM centers "lying down" that make their owners happy. This is the important thing, true?

What we looked at with the WAF-1 system was trying to give as much good sound as we could, in a decor friendly package, for not a lot of money.

We soon will have a terrific sealed subwoofer to match with the WAF-1's, along with the Satin Black option already ordered for Waf-1's, making for some excellent options.

I also encourage Nuance to compare our little speaker to his Song Towers. He has a great ear, loves the Song Towers, and I would enjoy getting his take.
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post #100 of 273 Old 09-06-2009, 06:52 PM
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This is the TCA thread. If anyone wants to chat about other brands, start your own thread or take it to the appropriate thread. I am sure there are other comparison thread, if that's why you claim you're here.

Now let's see if we can act like adults and respect the other people on this forum.

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post #101 of 273 Old 09-06-2009, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

Here is a pretty good quote about the MTM design vs. a 2 way monitor design, with the MTM being used in a vertical orientation.

Quote:
The MTM design offers wide horizontal dispersion with limited vertical dispersion, which will help minimize room effects by lessening the impact of floor and ceiling reflections. The two way monitor offers wide horizontal and vertical dispersion making it a more placement friendly loudspeaker while also making it more susceptible to room issues.

edit: I knew that quote above sounded familiar. The use of "two way monitor" replaced the actual speaker model in the actual post. It was specific to that two-way monitor, not all two way monitors.

Good horizontal MTM speakers are generally fine if the seating area is within 15-20degrees left and right of the center(a 30-40degree window). Sit outside of that, and you will probably have issues and maybe/usually sitting outside of your mains too.

Laying an MT speaker on its side while offering wider dispersion, also generally does not offer symmetrical response to the left and right of the speaker. Although this is usually not as problematic as issues that arise when sitting outside of the listening window of a horizontal MTM.

BTW, eventhough some have pointed out that there may be some measureable effects of the raised lip, I like the look of the recessed grille on the WAF-1. Is it pressure fit and/or magnetic?

Also, any speakers I have seen with any hint of red stain, usually look more red in pictures than in person. Maybe you photographers can help explain that one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

We soon will have a terrific sealed subwoofer to match with the WAF-1's...

be careful about sourcing amps for that baby!

-curtis

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Volunteer Mod at the Ascend Acoustics Forum
Like all things on the Internet, do your research, as forums have a good amount of misinformation.
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post #102 of 273 Old 09-06-2009, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

Greetings all ... It is pretty clear that there are two people who have no interest in doing anything but stirring up any negatives possible in this thread.

Pardon me while I ignore them both.

If this is your official attitude toward skeptics, your brand won't last long on this forum.

Tim's skepticism seems to me a reasonable and standard response to a product being dubbed the "WAF" anything.
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post #103 of 273 Old 09-06-2009, 09:08 PM
 
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If this is your official attitude toward skeptics, your brand won't last long on this forum.

Tim's skepticism seems to me a reasonable and standard response to a product being dubbed the "WAF" anything.

There are some people who just cannot understand humour. Wife Acceptance Factor is a phrase that goes back to the 70's in audio.

If there is anything we have at TCA, it is humour.

However, humour requires the ability to laugh at one's self.

If you cannot see the humour in a speaker called Wife Acceptance Factor 1, then I am afraid you are beyond help.

Lighten up, dude.

You are not the first genius who told me I would not last long around here. The first time was a little over 5 years ago.

As for Tim ...If I paid what he did for those speakers, I would likely ... oh ... never mind.I am sure there is a motel 6 where you 2 can find happiness.
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post #104 of 273 Old 09-06-2009, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

As for Tim ...If I paid what he did for those speakers, I would likely ... oh ... never mind.I am sure there is a motel 6 where you 2 can find happiness.

Shame AVS doesn't have the ROFL emoti/action/con!
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post #105 of 273 Old 09-06-2009, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by s44 View Post

If this is your official attitude toward skeptics, your brand won't last long on this forum.

Tim's skepticism seems to me a reasonable and standard response to a product being dubbed the "WAF" anything.

Its not reasonable. He's trolling. Define irony: a person with some of the ugliest speakers amongst the posters in this thread, whom also paid WAY more for his speakers than the WAF-1's, has the nerve to repeatedly call TCA's speakers ugly. Saying it once, maybe twice in the same post would have been considered "getting his point across." Continuing to banter on about it, then disrupt the thread by talking about other brands is called trolling, being unprofessional and is downright inconsiderate. And mark my words, it's intentional. It has nothing to do with the "name," but more to do with other agendas. Do you see other people doing that in his carbon fiber system thread? No.

I mean no offense at all to you by responding to this, by the way. I'm just telling it like it is.

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post #106 of 273 Old 09-06-2009, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post


I have to go through some more testing soon, I have 6 new sets of DIY speakers that will be done by the end of the month.

Anyways, I have posted before and I will post again. Im a fan of what you are doing!

You've been a busy boy.

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post #107 of 273 Old 09-06-2009, 11:22 PM
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Craig, congrats on the release of your first product!

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

Here is a pretty good quote about the MTM design vs. a 2 way monitor design, with the MTM being used in a vertical orientation.
Quote:


The MTM design offers wide horizontal dispersion with limited vertical dispersion, which will help minimize room effects by lessening the impact of floor and ceiling reflections. The two way monitor offers wide horizontal and vertical dispersion making it a more placement friendly loudspeaker while also making it more susceptible to room issues.


In the future, if you are going to use my statements, please don't "change" them to suit your own purposes.

My original post in response to a customer's question:

Quote:


From a technical standpoint, the CMT-340 is an MTM design while the CBM-170 is a TM. The MTM design offers wide horizontal dispersion with limited vertical dispersion, which will help minimize room effects by lessening the impact of floor and ceiling reflections. The CBM-170 offers wide horizontal and vertical dispersion making it a more placement friendly loudspeaker while also making it more susceptible to room issues.

Posted here on 8/26: http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/sho...00&postcount=2

Your modified quote:

Quote:


The MTM design offers wide horizontal dispersion with limited vertical dispersion, which will help minimize room effects by lessening the impact of floor and ceiling reflections. The two way monitor offers wide horizontal and vertical dispersion making it a more placement friendly loudspeaker while also making it more susceptible to room issues.

My quote was in reference to our CMT-340SE vs. our CBM-170SE, and as I am sure you are aware, the differences do not necessarily stand true for all MTM vs TM speakers. In fact, many "TM" speakers may also exhibit limited vertical dispersion. Much of this is determined by the slopes and Q of the high pass and low pass crossover filters. While I am not familiar with your design, many designers do prefer limiting / controlling vertical dispersion even in a TM.

It is incorrect to modify my statement and then use it as a generalization.

Thanks for your consideration.

David Fabrikant

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post #108 of 273 Old 09-06-2009, 11:39 PM
 
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David, as two of your favorite disciples have barged into a thread about TCA products, with one of them posting links to other company's products, my post was quite appropriate.

Grandarf, who has done nothing but troll in this thread, said this about a 2 way design. These are his words, not mine:

Quote:


Lobing will happen even with a 2 way when sitting on its side and listening off angle horizontally. Loudspeaker characteristics varies depending on how off angle you listen to them, and off angle horizontal vs vertical are significantly different. Stick a 2 way speaker sideways, and you should notice that off angle horizontally the sound is different vs if they were sitting upwards. Vertically, off angle is usually much worst than horizontal, and by sticking a 2 way sideways, you basically invert these properties, the speakers will behave much better vertically than horizontally. (meaning they'd sound better if you were too high or too low, than if you were too much on the left/right).

Your own words (which would have remained anonymous had you not posted here) are in direct contrast to what he posted here.

Whether you like it or not, David, it is your people who start issues with me, not the other way around.
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post #109 of 273 Old 09-07-2009, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

David, as two of your favorite disciples have barged into a thread about TCA products, with one of them posting links to other company's products, my post was quite appropriate.

And exactly how does this involve me? Because some Ascend customers have an interest in your products? Because they posted links to other competing products in the thread about your products? (not even Ascend products ) They are not the only ones and last time I checked, this is an audio forum. Every product specific thread on AVS that I have ever read includes links and comparisons to competing products. I recommend that you get used to that, Craig.

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

Grandarf, who has done nothing but troll in this thread, said this about a 2 way design. These are his words, not mine:

Again, what does this have to do with me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

Your own words (which would have remained anonymous had you not posted here) are in direct contrast to what he posted here.

Don't you mean your modified version of my quote? Actually, while I can't quite follow what Grandarf said, there is still quite a bit of technical truth in it. I will break it down from your quote of what Grandarf stated.

Grandarf’s statements:

Quote:


Lobing will happen even with a 2 way when sitting on its side and listening off angle horizontally.

That is correct...

Quote:


Loudspeaker characteristics varies depending on how off angle you listen to them, and off angle horizontal vs vertical are significantly different.

In reference to a TM, this is also true but the amount of variation between different models will be significant. Some will deliver more symmetrical dispersion others can be all over the place. There really isn't a right or wrong here, there are pro's and cons to each design.

Quote:


Stick a 2 way speaker sideways, and you should notice that off angle horizontally the sound is different vs if they were sitting upwards.

I believe he means that when sitting off axis with the TM placed horizontally, the response will be different then if the speaker was placed vertically. This is also true with the same conditions I mentioned above.

Quote:


Vertically, off angle is usually much worst than horizontal, and by sticking a 2 way sideways, you basically invert these properties, the speakers will behave much better vertically than horizontally. (meaning they'd sound better if you were too high or too low, than if you were too much on the left/right).

I believe he is trying to say that when a TM is placed vertically, the response off-axis vertically is usually worse than off-axis horizontally. This is also correct with the same statements I made above (some TM's are more symmetrical (by design) and others are less symmetrical (can also be by specific design or utilization/purpose of the speaker).

So, just so that I fully understand things... You took issue with Grandarf (a forum member and audio enthusiast who owns some Ascends) because he posted some generally correct technical info This angered you so to shut him up, you then decide to take a statement I made, "quote it" and change it to better suit your purposes and use it as a response to Grandarf? I don't even see how your version of my quote even contradicts what Grandarf stated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

Whether you like it or not, David, it is your people who start issues with me, not the other way around

My people? What issues? From the brief amount I read, it seems there is a lot of genuine interest and with that interest will also come skepticisim.

Craig, you are in this industry now, a "professional" --- my advice is to kick back and just relax. It appears you have a good product for the money and if this is true it will sell just fine. Your going to have plenty of fans and plenty of detractors. You don't need to answer to everybody and now that you are a professional, you should try not to step out of bounds, which is exactly what you did by anonymously quoting me and changing the original statement.

I know that you understand my point - you wouldn't be where you are today if you didn't.

I am not here to argue or fight with you, I am just asking you to avoid modifying my statements and then quoting them, anonymously or not.

Besides, aren’t you the one who always takes issues with people improperly quoting you? ....

Thank you.

David Fabrikant

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post #110 of 273 Old 09-07-2009, 01:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Its not reasonable. He's trolling. Define irony: a person with some of the ugliest speakers amongst the posters in this thread, whom also paid WAY more for his speakers than the WAF-1's, has the nerve to repeatedly call TCA's speakers ugly. Saying it once, maybe twice in the same post would have been considered "getting his point across." Continuing to banter on about it, then disrupt the thread by talking about other brands is called trolling, being unprofessional and is downright inconsiderate. And mark my words, it's intentional. It has nothing to do with the "name," but more to do with other agendas. Do you see other people doing that in his carbon fiber system thread? No.

I mean no offense at all to you by responding to this, by the way. I'm just telling it like it is.

He certainly has an interesting approach to the hobby, yes. But it seems to me that the pedestrian looks of these particular speakers and their power handling limits (about which I'm actually curious) are legitimate issues that could use airing no matter what you think of the person doing it.

I see where personal histories you folks have with each other could raise flags early, but it's rather a bigger flag when *the guy selling his product* is trying to boot people from his thread in this manner (although on rereading, I may have been mistaken on whether this was what was going on -- actually, on re-rereading the bizarre Ascend flame stuff, it definitely was). The purpose of this launch thread is to sell the product to the AVS forum populace, isn't it? As such I as a reader and prospective buyer (though the dual 10" sub looks more interesting) would expect more back-and-forth than in an "official owner's thread", with the actual brand owner more of a discreet info source than a guy pushing his product (and hey, it's great he believes in it, but he's not just a forumite any more) and throwing his weight around.

But whatever. This metadiscussion won't improve the thread in any case. Everyone back to his station, pro- and con-!
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post #111 of 273 Old 09-07-2009, 01:16 AM
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As for Tim ...If I paid what he did for those speakers, I would likely ... oh ... never mind. I am sure there is a motel 6 where you 2 can find happiness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Its not reasonable. He's trolling. Define irony: a person with some of the ugliest speakers amongst the posters in this thread, whom also paid WAY more for his speakers than the WAF-1's, has the nerve to repeatedly call TCA's speakers ugly. Saying it once, maybe twice in the same post would have been considered "getting his point across." Continuing to banter on about it, then disrupt the thread by talking about other brands is called trolling, being unprofessional and is downright inconsiderate. And mark my words, it's intentional. It has nothing to do with the "name," but more to do with other agendas. Do you see other people doing that in his carbon fiber system thread? No.

I mean no offense at all to you by responding to this, by the way. I'm just telling it like it is.

As was I.

I posted my opinion of the appearance of the WAF-1's, and kept my comments focused on that issue. I was through posting here, but since you boys want to make this personal, here is some interesting information to consider that brings the ethics of Craig and Nuance into question:

* Nuance starts "The Official Tweak City Owners" thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ght=tweak+city) months before the speakers are available. He proclaims, "The WAF-1's will redefine the performance an affordable entry level bookshelf can offer, not to mention they are gorgeous." and, "Craig is one of the "godfathers" of this Audio hobby we love so much, and soon he'll be known as a Pioneer in the industry." That reads more like advertising copy than it does the post of someone that hasn't even heard the speakers at this point. Vested interest or outside influences perhaps?

* Shortly after the speakers are released, and of no surprise, Nuance posts a glowing review of the WAF-1's, along with other follow-up comments about how the WAF's "destroyed" the competition. A 16 paragraph review and not one solid criticism of a pair of $230 speakers? I've listened to dozens of speakers over the years, many well above this price point, and not one of them were without flaw. Was this an honest review or shill-like sales tactic?

Maybe Nuance is just an overenthusiastic fanboy and Craig is an honest businessman. I can't say for sure.
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post #112 of 273 Old 09-07-2009, 04:07 AM
 
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And exactly how does this involve me? Because some Ascend customers have an interest in your products? Because they posted links to other competing products in the thread about your products? (not even Ascend products ) They are not the only ones and last time I checked, this is an audio forum. Every product specific thread on AVS that I have ever read includes links and comparisons to competing products. I recommend that you get used to that, Craig.



Again, what does this have to do with me?



Don't you mean your modified version of my quote? Actually, while I can't quite follow what Grandarf said, there is still quite a bit of technical truth in it. I will break it down from your quote of what Grandarf stated.

Grandarf’s statements:



That is correct...



In reference to a TM, this is also true but the amount of variation between different models will be significant. Some will deliver more symmetrical dispersion others can be all over the place. There really isn't a right or wrong here, there are pro's and cons to each design.



I believe he means that when sitting off axis with the TM placed horizontally, the response will be different then if the speaker was placed vertically. This is also true with the same conditions I mentioned above.



I believe he is trying to say that when a TM is placed vertically, the response off-axis vertically is usually worse than off-axis horizontally. This is also correct with the same statements I made above (some TM's are more symmetrical (by design) and others are less symmetrical (can also be by specific design or utilization/purpose of the speaker).

So, just so that I fully understand things... You took issue with Grandarf (a forum member and audio enthusiast who owns some Ascends) because he posted some generally correct technical info This angered you so to shut him up, you then decide to take a statement I made, "quote it" and change it to better suit your purposes and use it as a response to Grandarf? I don't even see how your version of my quote even contradicts what Grandarf stated.



My people? What issues? From the brief amount I read, it seems there is a lot of genuine interest and with that interest will also come skepticisim.

Craig, you are in this industry now, a "professional" --- my advice is to kick back and just relax. It appears you have a good product for the money and if this is true it will sell just fine. Your going to have plenty of fans and plenty of detractors. You don't need to answer to everybody and now that you are a professional, you should try not to step out of bounds, which is exactly what you did by anonymously quoting me and changing the original statement.

I know that you understand my point - you wouldn't be where you are today if you didn't.

I am not here to argue or fight with you, I am just asking you to avoid modifying my statements and then quoting them, anonymously or not.

Besides, aren’t you the one who always takes issues with people improperly quoting you? ....

Thank you.

David, We both know that these 2 individuals do your talking for you in the forums. I hope you kept a straight face when delivering the line about their being interested in my products. That was the funniest line from you in years. Bravo !

We also know that one of them came to you with the information that your description of your MTM and standard 2 way was in this thread.

Grandarf is far more than just a customer. If a thread involves either products of TCA or AV123, he is there to make sure he can disrupt the thread at every turn.

Both these guys would behave with better manners with just a word from you.

Now, as for your allegation of "anger" on my part, this is not true. In fact, it is quite the opposite of the truth. I was laughing at quite a few statements yesterday.

I was asked to, and did even posted the measurements as asked for yesterday, and said I did. Amazingly, none of these guys bothered to take note of this.

I suggest you learn to relax, Mr. Fabrikant. It's healthier.
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post #113 of 273 Old 09-07-2009, 04:22 AM
 
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Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

As was I.

I posted my opinion of the appearance of the WAF-1's, and kept my comments focused on that issue. I was through posting here, but since you boys want to make this personal, here is some interesting information to consider that brings the ethics of Craig and Nuance into question:

* Nuance starts "The Official Tweak City Owners" thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ght=tweak+city) months before the speakers are available. He proclaims, "The WAF-1's will redefine the performance an affordable entry level bookshelf can offer, not to mention they are gorgeous." and, "Craig is one of the "godfathers" of this Audio hobby we love so much, and soon he'll be known as a Pioneer in the industry." That reads more like advertising copy than it does the post of someone that hasn't even heard the speakers at this point. Vested interest or outside influences perhaps?

* Shortly after the speakers are released, and of no surprise, Nuance posts a glowing review of the WAF-1's, along with other follow-up comments about how the WAF's "destroyed" the competition. A 16 paragraph review and not one solid criticism of a pair of $230 speakers? I've listened to dozens of speakers over the years, many well above this price point, and not one of them were without flaw. Was this an honest review or shill-like sales tactic?

Maybe Nuance is just an overenthusiastic fanboy and Craig is an honest businessman. I can't say for sure.

Here is Nuance's summary of the WAF-1's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

In conclusion, listening to the WAF-1’s was a bit humbling for me. They performed superbly for their asking price, while having a look that will pass WAF (hence the name). Did I expect them to hang with my SongTower’s? No. Did they? No. Should they have? No. What they do for less than $300, however, is throw a huge sound stage, give the listener a sense of neutrality that I have not found in any other speakers in this price bracket and help introduce the listener to some very good sound quality, all while not evening coming close to breaking the bank. For an “entry level speaker” you’re getting a heckuva lot for your money in my opinion. Do they have flaws? Of course. However, are you really going to gripe about them considering the cost of the speaker and how minor they are in retrospect? Only you can answer that, but my answer is “nope.”

Brandon ordered the speakers through normal channels, and received zero input from me, in regards to the review.

He is well respected, and has a good ear.

His words, above, speak for themselves.
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post #114 of 273 Old 09-07-2009, 05:22 AM
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David, We both know that these 2 individuals do your talking for you in the forums.

Actually, Craig, that is your opinion and I do not share it. But I assume you mean, with regard to this thread, Curtis and Grandarf? To be honest, I don't even know who Grandarf is and Curtis is one of the most respected and honest AVS forum members. He doesn't "speak" for me, never has and we both know that YOU most certainly know this to be the case.

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We also know that one of them came to you with the information that your description of your MTM and standard 2 way was in this thread.

Really, and how do "we" know this? Nobody "came to me with this information". Look what time I posted My daughter is getting her molars in so she has had a rough night and I was awake. I decided to check the forums, read your posts and immediately recognized my "modified" quote.

Quote:
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Grandarf is far more than just a customer. If a thread involves either products of TCA or AV123, he is there to make sure he can disrupt the thread at every turn.

What exactly are you trying to say, Craig? You think I have some type of association with him? I don't even know this person's first or last name. Clever way to deflect any negativity towards you though, pass it off that this person has some type of association with a competitor. If he has an agenda, it is his own.

Besides, you are skirting the issue -- your responses have nothing to do with and certainly do not justify you publicly misquoting me. You think because these people annoy you and they happen to own Ascend products that it gives you the right to publicly misquote me? If that is truly how you feel -- keep at it then, I'm flattered to know that "craigsub" still browses the Ascend forum after all the years looking for answers

Best of luck to you.

David Fabrikant

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post #115 of 273 Old 09-07-2009, 05:44 AM
 
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Mr. Fabrikant, Here is a chronology ...

At 1:20 AM EDT today, Your moderator notes the "quote".

Quote:
Originally Posted by CChang View Post

edit: I knew that quote above sounded familiar. The use of "two way monitor" replaced the actual speaker model in the actual post. It was specific to that two-way monitor, not all two way monitors

At 2:22 AM EDT today, you place your first, rather long post here.

I apologize, this was just an amazing coincidence that you happened to find an obscure reference in one of my posts here in less than an hour from the time Mr. Chang noticed it.
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post #116 of 273 Old 09-07-2009, 05:54 AM
 
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Back to our regularly scheduled programming ... for those who are interested in the product and the discussion of using the WAF-1 as a center channel. A lot may have been lost in the posting of links, and other information, which have nothing to do with the performance of our speakers.

The preferred use is in a setting where the WAF-1 is vertically in all channels, including the center.

At a little under 11 inches high, the WAF-1's will fit in many decors.

For those who need to, it can be used horizontally with good results, too.

We have some measurements of the WAF-1's on our forum, with some explanation regarding the test setting.

Is the horizontal configuration as good as the vertical ? No. But it is still less a compromise than what one would see with an MTM design, especially in this price range.

Our goal for the WAF-1's and our upcoming subwoofer is to give a great 5.1 channel system for around $1000-$1100.

As things progress, I am hoping that our customers will think we delivered on this goal.
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post #117 of 273 Old 09-07-2009, 05:59 AM
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Back to our regularly scheduled programming ...

Ditto

I'm wanting to read more about these speakers, but I have to agree with some of the other posters about the looks of them not being that great.

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post #118 of 273 Old 09-07-2009, 06:07 AM
 
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Tdogroeder .. I am hoping to get pics that represent the WAF-1's done this week. They really do look better in person than in any pics posted so far. That being said, Rosewood is not for everyone.

I also like the Satin Black we have ordered. I think we will end up with Black being the preferred finish.

I was originally planning on Black for the first run, but the poll at TCA was overwhelming in favor of Rosewood.

Democracy occasionally has its problems ...
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post #119 of 273 Old 09-07-2009, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

Mr. Fabrikant, Here is a chronology ...

At 1:20 AM EDT today, Your moderator notes the "quote".



At 2:22 AM EDT today, you place your first, rather long post here.

I apologize, this was just an amazing coincidence that you happened to find an obscure reference in one of my posts here in less than an hour from the time Mr. Chang noticed it.

I can understand the assumption, but even if Curtis had informed me, what would it matter with the issue at hand? You misquoted me for your own benefit.

But besides, since your sarcasm is obvious, why not ask Mr. Chang himself? The only correspondance I have had with Curtis in the last few weeks was with regard to a health issue with a family member. I can't even remember the last time he and I discussed anything "audio" or forum related.

While I don't have 10,000+ posts nor do I have the time to spend all day on here, I do make the time to read about new products, Craig. I mean, I have only been working in this industry since 1984.

No more energy on this matter from me...

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post #120 of 273 Old 09-07-2009, 06:17 AM
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Tdogroeder .. I am hoping to get pics that represent the WAF-1's done this week. They really do look better in person than in any pics posted so far. That being said, Rosewood is not for everyone.

I also like the Satin Black we have ordered. I think we will end up with Black being the preferred finish.

I was originally planning on Black for the first run, but the poll at TCA was overwhelming in favor of Rosewood.

Democracy occasionally has its problems ...

When I first saw the pics I thought they were laminate not wood veneer, I do like rosewood veneer as I have rocket 850's. However for me the front of the cabinet is very different looking that makes them look not so good.

Did you design the cabinet?

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