NEW WAF-1 speakers by Tweak City Audio - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 273 Old 09-08-2009, 12:04 PM
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Here are the pics of the 45 degree bevel on the frame of the WAF-1 grille. Since grille cloth is stretched around a frame, Any speaker that has a conventional grille that attaches to the speaker with pegs that fit into holes in the front baffle, will have the frame extending out past the driver. The WAF-1 frame is only 1/4" in thickness (I gave Craig the 5/16" dimension, but on remeasuring 1/4" would be more accurate). On top of that, the bevel helps reduce the already minimal effect of the frame even more.


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post #182 of 273 Old 09-08-2009, 01:39 PM
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Craig, the speakers look very nice. Interesting social commentary going on in this thread .

I don't lurk as much as I used to and I NEVER listen. Comes from being old and cynical.

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post #183 of 273 Old 09-08-2009, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Temple View Post

Craig, the speakers look very nice. Interesting social commentary going on in this thread .

Craig must have put something in the water.


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post #184 of 273 Old 09-08-2009, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

The bevel ....

There have been some comments on the bevel frame around the WAF-1's.

It measures 5/16 inch thick. If one removes the grill, one will notice that the frame is angled out, making for a very small waveguide into the bevel, at about a 45 degree angle. The grill is flush to the edge of the speakers, again making for an integrated look, and performance.

Jack (Rijax) has a pic that we will get posted later.

That's not a waveguide...

lmao

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rijax View Post

Here are the pics of the 45 degree bevel on the frame of the WAF-1 grille. Since grille cloth is stretched around a frame, Any speaker that has a conventional grille that attaches to the speaker with pegs that fit into holes in the front baffle, will have the frame extending out past the driver. The WAF-1 frame is only 1/4" in thickness (I gave Craig the 5/16" dimension, but on remeasuring 1/4" would be more accurate). On top of that, the bevel helps reduce the already minimal effect of the frame even more.


That image make it look like the grill has been assembled backwards... Like someone glued the speaker cloth on the wrong side... Is it really like that?

How it should have been built:
(represents the grill viewed from top, the front of the speaker pointing up)
Arguably, this could have been considered some kind of horn...
Code:
|===\\        /===|
      driver

But the way it seems to be assembled:

|===/        \\===|
      driver
So actually, this has absolutely nothing to do with a waveguide, not even a horn since it seems to be inverted, it's actually the opposite of a horn... A real waveguide is supposed to 'guide' the (sound) waves (waveguide) and not just cause extra diffraction... How could an inverted horn guide anything?! The grill, as is, makes zero sens as a horn or a waveguide, makes as much sens as trying to play a trumpet or a sax from the opposite hole... (the hole where the sound comes from...) Absolutely no sens whatsoever...

Read on waveguides: http://sound.westhost.com/articles/w...des1.htm#intro

I don't know what's the joke here... Calling a 45 degree cut in the wrong direction a waveguide, or if it's bad production and QA and there's a couple defective grills out there... Or if it's a plot by craig to generate more drama by saying ridiculous things and call people troll when they rebuke his silly statements...

Anyhow, /me is

Here you can see a real waveguide, note how it's shaped to guide the sound waves...:


top view:




Waveguide... lol damn craig! Hahaha. Too funny! Comedy gold!
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post #185 of 273 Old 09-08-2009, 03:58 PM
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Grandarf -

While I agree, it seems to be a non-issue when looking at the FR graphs posted earlier.

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post #186 of 273 Old 09-08-2009, 04:12 PM
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Well it depends how you view things. 1) I don't think people should start calling things which are not waveguides waveguides...
2) "non-issue when looking at the FR graphs", yeah I completely agree. This will in no way affect you when you're looking at the FR graphs.

Anyhow, does this affect performance? It most probably does IMHO, negatively. But it's all tradeoffs. He wanted a grill built in the cabinet, and he had to work with what he had... Anyhow, I don't know, maybe the person who actually designed the speakers can come forth and explain it, that would be interesting. But in the end, 230$ speaker, that's how they are, they don't use any kind of waveguide, manufacturer's measurements have been posted, they look pretty good, so that's that.

Hey, I'm not bitching or anything, that they're made like that, I'm just saying, that their grills are not waveguides, and that no, the waveguides that they do not have, will probably not improve anything, quite the contrary, IMHO, such grill, with an "inverted horn waveguide", call it whatever you want, will instead have a detrimental effect on performance. IMHO. YMMV. Calling that a performance improving waveguide is simply marketing spiel...
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post #187 of 273 Old 09-08-2009, 04:56 PM
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Is the grill frame made from MDF?

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post #188 of 273 Old 09-08-2009, 05:13 PM
 
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Grandarf,

There is a thing called context. The context of my post was in reference to the small lip which frames the WAF-1's. There was some concern regarding this lip.

I never said the WAF-1's were a waveguide loudspeaker. I was pointing out why we designed the grill as we did.

In a waveguide loudspeaker, the waveguide is used to direct the sound the designer wants you to hear in a controlled pattern.

With the angle of the bezel into the lip, we are using a small waveguide to help ameliorate any small amount of soundwaves which might "bounce" off the lip. We are using this small waveguide to keep unwanted sounds from reaching one's ears.

This is a simple solution to a very small problem in a budget speaker.

In listening tests, the WAF-1's sound better with the grills on than with them off. It also measures better with the grill on than off.
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post #189 of 273 Old 09-08-2009, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

Grandarf,

There is a thing called context. The context of my post was in reference to the small lip which frames the WAF-1's. There was some concern regarding this lip.

Yes the context is indeed important.

Quote:
The bevel ....

There have been some comments on the bevel frame around the WAF-1's.

It measures 5/16 inch thick. If one removes the grill, one will notice that the frame is angled out, making for a very small waveguide into the bevel, at about a 45 degree angle. The grill is flush to the edge of the speakers, again making for an integrated look, and performance.

Jack (Rijax) has a pic that we will get posted later.

The image, showing the 45 degree angle cut, the so called 'waveguide':


Bzzzzt!! Wrong, that's not a waveguide, especially if it is as I've already commented, cut on the wrong side...

Now it seems you've changed your story, what is it that they say about craig? "This is a typical "Craigism". Truth is not the object. Winning the argument at any cost is."?

Quote:
With the angle of the bezel into the lip, we are using a small waveguide to help ameliorate any small amount of soundwaves which might "bounce" off the lip. We are using this small waveguide to keep unwanted sounds from reaching one's ears.

As you'd say, we both know that's not what you've said and that's not what you wanted to say either. With your new tune, seems like you're talking about the cabinet's rounded corners to try to reduce diffraction, and the slight angle in the protruding edges of your baffle. (but it's very vague, lip?! "help ameliorate any small amount of soundwaves that bounce off the lip"?!) That seems good in theory, but the problem you have now, is that instead instead of just having rounded corners in the case where you remove the grill, you now have to deal with the grill's diffraction, or the cabinet's protruded edges... Now I know, you'll say it was designed with grills on. Well, again, the 45 degree angle of the inside of the grill will be a source of diffraction, which, again, you'd simply not have on a speaker with no grill and no protruding cabinet edges.

And anyhow, again, to beat the dead horse, the rounded corners and small angle at the protruding cabinet edges have absolutely nothing to do with waveguides. Saying that it is, is "a typical "Craigism". Truth is not the object. Winning the argument at any cost is."
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post #190 of 273 Old 09-08-2009, 06:22 PM
 
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To those reading this thread with an interest in the WAF-1's, please accept my apology for the constant oubursts by certain individuals.

Over the years, I have learned that there are certain people who will follow me anywhere possible, with the intent of making life miserable to the point that I just give up.

I hope the people doing so in this thread do not deter anyone from participating in a friendly manner.

I am finally going to take the advice of people who ARE friendly, and to just ignore Mr. Grandarf and his posts.

To the vast majority of either lurkers or active participants, thank you for being here.
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post #191 of 273 Old 09-08-2009, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

I am finally going to take the advice of people who ARE friendly, and to just ignore Mr. Grandarf and his posts.

Best idea you've had since the WAF-1 and the Dual 10 subwoofer (or whatever you are going to call it.)

Jim
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post #192 of 273 Old 09-08-2009, 07:23 PM
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Point of order: please limit your posts to technical issues: never attack another member
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post #193 of 273 Old 09-08-2009, 08:25 PM
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alphaii,

You ordered a pair of WAF-1's didn't you? What are your impressions?


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post #194 of 273 Old 09-08-2009, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

alphaii,

You ordered a pair of WAF-1's didn't you? What are your impressions?

I grabbed an upopened pair (for a nice price) that a gentleman over at audiocircle was selling.

I haven't had the chance to spend much time with them, since I just got them last week and then left town for 5 days...

But, with the limited time they've seen in my 2.1 PC music setup (with a TCA Gizmo and an Aperion S8-APR), I've been pretty pleased with them. I need to spend some more time with them before I can really give detailed feedback.
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post #195 of 273 Old 09-09-2009, 04:17 AM
 
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Alphaiii - Looking forward to your comments on the WAF-1's.

And if you have a larger system, and are in the mood to experiment, give them a try there for a few days and let us know what you think about them there, too.
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post #196 of 273 Old 09-09-2009, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

Alphaiii - Looking forward to your comments on the WAF-1's.

And if you have a larger system, and are in the mood to experiment, give them a try there for a few days and let us know what you think about them there, too.

My living room HT system is a fairly modest 3.1 setup - Denon AVR788, Energy RC-10/RC-LCR speakers, and Mirage Prestige S-10 sub.

I do intend to compare he WAF-1 to the RC-10...and probably will experiment using a single WAF-1 as a vertical center channel as well.

It will probably take a few weeks to get in some quality time comparing them, as I am will be out of town a good bit the next couple weeks....but I will definitely post my thoughts on their performance in both the PC music and living room HT settings...
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post #197 of 273 Old 09-10-2009, 10:14 AM
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I look forward to your impressions, alphaiii.


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post #198 of 273 Old 09-12-2009, 07:16 AM
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Has anyone auditioned Emotiva's ERM-1's? If you have how would the WAF-1's compare to these?

The ERM-1's are being phased out and are at a discounted price of $320 shipped.

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post #199 of 273 Old 09-15-2009, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdogroeder View Post

Has anyone auditioned Emotiva's ERM-1's? If you have how would the WAF-1's compare to these?

The ERM-1's are being phased out and are at a discounted price of $320 shipped.

Anyone have an opinion on this?

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post #200 of 273 Old 09-16-2009, 10:27 AM
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Good question.
I haven't seen a comparison.

A comparison thread at TCA forum hasn't brought up anything - link.
I haven't seen any commentary on the WAF-1 on the Emotiva forum.

You could be the first person to compare!


Mike


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post #201 of 273 Old 09-16-2009, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdogroeder View Post

Has anyone auditioned Emotiva's ERM-1's? If you have how would the WAF-1's compare to these?

The ERM-1's are being phased out and are at a discounted price of $320 shipped.

I put ERM-1s up against Salk HTS MT designs and Klipsch RB-81s.

They did very well but then again Im not a subjective person so if they do not distort and measure well, they are built to perform well.

At this price point people are splitting hairs, lobbing subjective BS back and forth!

Buy the speaker and just enjoy, you are not going to be breaking any scientific laws of audio, you are not going to have perfection but you will have a good speaker that didnt cost an arm and a leg.

If you let subjectivity rule your audio world you are going to drive yourself crazy.

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post #202 of 273 Old 09-18-2009, 04:07 PM
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Nice looking speaker and I will keep an out when you release that sub. Good work. Its good to see a amateur make it to the pros. Now that's awesome.

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post #203 of 273 Old 09-27-2009, 08:00 PM
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Sure has been quiet on this thread.

Has anybody else got a pair of these yet?

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post #204 of 273 Old 09-27-2009, 11:23 PM
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I'm interested in hearing opinions about the WAF-1 vs the new PSB Image B4. The PSB discounted should be around $250 and is the direct competitor seeing they're the non-ID brand to beat nowadays.
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post #205 of 273 Old 09-28-2009, 10:17 AM
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I have ordered six and waiting for them to arrive. I'll happily post an update/review when they are set up.

Incidentally, I only need five of the six, so I'll have a single speaker for sale...
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post #206 of 273 Old 09-28-2009, 12:04 PM
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If your receiver allows it and you have the space, use it as a rear center channel, pompeyjohn.

I look forward to your impressions.


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post #207 of 273 Old 09-28-2009, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

If your receiver allows it and you have the space, use it as a rear center channel, pompeyjohn.

I look forward to your impressions.

I don't think it (a HK 235) does - I am checking now. Thanks for the tip. I don't have a subwoofer yet so my review of them in 5.1 mode would be somewhat "limited". I am looking around for a nice cheap sub and it seems something called a Scamp 10 would have been perfect Hopefully a decent one will come up on Craigslist soon.

I am really looking forward to getting the WAFs. Each one will be in a bookcase. I am building those right now... and my hands hurt.

I will saw review wise though, that so far TCA have been great. I sent them a load of pre-sales questions and the answers they gave were above and beyond what I was expecting.
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post #208 of 273 Old 09-28-2009, 07:37 PM
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Putting them in bookcases will grossly effect the sound, mostly likely in a negative way. Just food for thought.


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post #209 of 273 Old 09-29-2009, 06:01 AM
 
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I was asked a question earlier about shipping, and apparently, my answer got somebody angry. The mods removed the answer after someone complained.

I will try again, and see if this answer works.

Until at least the end of this year (2009), Shipping is covered both ways on WAF-1's.

During the trial period, if you return them, there will be no charge to you (see our website for details).

MSRP remains at $229 per pair, including shipping, at least through the end of 2009.
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post #210 of 273 Old 09-29-2009, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Putting them in bookcases will grossly effect the sound, mostly likely in a negative way. Just food for thought.

Yeah, understood. However, I have no choice. The front LCR will also be about a foot below ear level as well. Not great, but it is all about the WAF.
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