Atlantic Technology H-PAS at CEDIA this year - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 08-25-2009, 06:09 AM - Thread Starter
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It appears that Atlantic Technology will have a new speaker demonstration at CEDIA this year. They're calling it H-PAS. Should be an interesting diversion from the 3D chatter that's likely to be making the rounds of CEDIA.

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post #2 of 21 Old 08-25-2009, 08:27 AM
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Wow, this sounds pretty interesting. It will be nice if it works out they way they say it will. The only issue I see is that even with the lower bass with smaller cabinets, I can still see volume and power being an issue. So this will be great for small rooms and people who want low bass from a compact system. For anyone wanting big sound and big bass, they will have to still use large cabinets.

However, this could really help a good sized 10-12" finally achieve the sub 20's without issues or high costs. Now that would be fun.
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post #3 of 21 Old 08-25-2009, 09:31 AM
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I asked about this in the AT owners thread. It definitely seems interesting.

One thing that came to mind though, a 1.4^3ft enclosure is not exactly small.

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post #4 of 21 Old 08-26-2009, 02:27 PM
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Curtis,

Peter Tribeman from Atlantic gave me a call in late spring raving about this new technology. I met Peter when he was looking for beta testers for the 970 processors at the Outlaw site and was chosen to be one of the beta testers.

He invited me over to the Atlantic offices in Norwood to give them a listen. He started out playing the big Atlantic subwoofers to get a feel for good bass (and it was tremendous) and then was going to switch to the H-Pas system. The program material was standard CDs with some very deep bass lines: percussion, and some other stuff I don't remember.

After listening for a while, I asked that he switch to the H-Pas at which point he revealed that he had played an old trick on me: I had been listening to the H-Pas all along. The original system I heard had two 4.5" woofers from one of the Atlantic speakers installed in a rather slender tower. I must say I was stunned at the depth, power and cleanliness of the bass.

The system I heard needed some work on the top end as it was rather harsh and forward. Peter said that the designer was aiming at perfecting the bass for the prototype and that the finished product would have a more sophisticated crossover.

I asked that he play some deep bass, and I ran over to the speaker to see if the cones were jumping out of their spiders (I think that's the term) during the lowest notes. Amazingly, they were not. The amount of cone movement did not justify the depth and quality of the bass that was playing.

Thinking that Peter was playing a trick on me, I walked around the room looking for a hidden subwoofer that was making the deep sounds. There was none. From this brief encounter with H-Pas it seemed that for once I really heard a "breakthrough". It will be interesting to hear production speakers that incorporate this new technology.

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post #5 of 21 Old 08-26-2009, 02:47 PM
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Tony lives!!

Thanks Tony....this is going to be an interesting product. Do you remember how big the speakers looked?

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post #6 of 21 Old 08-26-2009, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

Tony lives!!

Thanks Tony....this is going to be an interesting product. Do you remember how big the speakers looked?

Alive and kicking.

They were 40" high, 7.5" wide and 11" deep. There was a vent at the bottom. I remember thinking it was some kind of isobarik arrangement which would lack sensitivity but Peter assured me they weren't. It's going to be interesting to hear the reactions at Cedia. I hope they can give them justice in the demo. I've never been to Cedia, so I don't know how many active displays there are or whether it's mainly a static show.

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post #7 of 21 Old 08-26-2009, 03:46 PM
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Glad you are around.

The press release states it is a combination of technologies:
"combines elements of several speaker technologies: bass reflex, inverse horn, and transmission line"

I agree, I hope the demo at CEDIA is able to really show what the technology is about.

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post #8 of 21 Old 08-26-2009, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

Glad you are around.

The press release states it is a combination of technologies:
"combines elements of several speaker technologies: bass reflex, inverse horn, and transmission line"

I agree, I hope the demo at CEDIA is able to really show what the technology is about.

I've been spending time on the bicycle and recumbent forums. A lot calmer than home theater!

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post #9 of 21 Old 09-13-2009, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post

It will be interesting to hear production speakers that incorporate this new technology.

It'll be more interesting to see measurements, IMO. If they managed to do what they claim, then wow. But making loud low bass with low distortion is pumping air, and if air's not being pumped then it's hard to imagine that it's much of a breakthrough.

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post #10 of 21 Old 09-13-2009, 04:25 PM
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Curtis, I hope you were kidding about 1.4 cu ft not being small. Compared to what most folks subs look like, it's absolutely tiny.

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post #11 of 21 Old 09-13-2009, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Eddie Horton View Post

Curtis, I hope you were kidding about 1.4 cu ft not being small. Compared to what most folks subs look like, it's absolutely tiny.

Yeah...for a subwoofer it's small...but for a speaker it isn't.

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post #12 of 21 Old 09-15-2009, 10:52 AM
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Hey everyone!

I wanted to chime in because I got to hear the new H-PAS tower speakers from Atlantic Technology at the Cedia show on Friday afternoon. The Atlantic booth was stuffed away in a corner with a large demo room that I almost passed by due to utter mental overload.My feet were on fire from the long days of walking the show floor and Downtown Atlanta. Our Director of Online Sales (A former Atlantic rep) demanded that we wait in line to hear the new tech and said that we would not be disappointed ....so I sprawled out on the floor to give my legs a rest with a bit of skepticism.

When we sat down I learned that the new H-PAS (Hybrid Pressure Acceleration System) is a mix of many different speaker technologies: Bass reflex, transmission line, and inverse horn that does not require any special electronics, special drivers, or crazy equalization. The most impressive thing was that the technology allows small drivers to play bass frequencies down to 30hz by allowing pressure to build in the chambers of the cabinet. Peter Tribeman from AT put a little feather in each cabinets lower port to show just how much air was being forced out while the 4.5" drivers were barely moving. The bass response was extremely deep on very chalenging tracks with absolutely zero distortion. Someone even asked Peter "so you mean to tell me there are only two 4.5" drivers and a tweeter in the whole cabinet?"

I am guessing that these speakers won't be available until late next year because they were very unfinished black MDF cabinets with crossovers sitting on the floor, but I am now a believer. Peter kept talking about how they are looking to license the tech and if anyone in the room was interested to talk to him so by the looks of things there are going to be a lot of companies employing their tech in years to come.

I honestly have to say out of all the things I saw at Cedia this was one of the coolest and I am excited for the launch. I always used to overlook Atlantic when going to the shows in previous years and I don't know why?? I think alot of the time people get into a situation of mental overload when choosing speakers and generate impressions of companies based on god knows what, but I am sold on AT and have already made our 1st opening order.

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post #13 of 21 Old 09-15-2009, 11:21 AM
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THis stuff reminds me ofthe Tymphany LAT designs


http://www.tymphany.com/datasheet/printview.php?id=139

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post #14 of 21 Old 09-15-2009, 11:25 AM
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"This new system," Tribeman continues, "is the first ever to break the famous Iron Law of loudspeaker design, which states: 'deep bass extension, compact enclosure, or good efficiency … pick any two at the expense of the third'. For the very first time, due to Phil Clements' breakthrough design, we can have them all.”


So they are breaking the laws of physics? My money is on Hoffman's Iron Law Anyone want to take my action?

btw, 105dB is peanuts in terms of bass

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post #15 of 21 Old 09-15-2009, 11:48 AM
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I just realized (thanks Brandon).

THis is just like BOSE acoustimass designs

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post #16 of 21 Old 09-15-2009, 02:55 PM
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Oh no don't say Bose...that's a bad word

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post #17 of 21 Old 09-15-2009, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by penngray View Post

So they are breaking the laws of physics? My money is on Hoffman's Iron Law Anyone want to take my action?

btw, 105dB is peanuts in terms of bass

But that is a lot of peanuts from 2 4.5 inch drivers.
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post #18 of 21 Old 09-15-2009, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

It'll be more interesting to see measurements, IMO. If they managed to do what they claim, then wow. But making loud low bass with low distortion is pumping air, and if air's not being pumped then it's hard to imagine that it's much of a breakthrough.

My 20 year old Yamaha YST-S1 bookshelves are 8" x 12" x 9" with a 3dB point [nominally] 28Hz. During 'cannon fire' the blasts of air from the 'air woofers' [Heimholtz Resonator ports] make the nearby light fixtures swing around! But the product -- designed for 'smaller' Japanese homes -- failed in the US, because the price point, here, equated to 'big' speakers. So Yamaha dropped the product line, but retained the technology for its Active Servo subs.

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post #19 of 21 Old 09-16-2009, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

But that is a lot of peanuts from 2 4.5 inch drivers.

Sure but if we are going to use the "Great for its size" logic then people have to be honest and say BOSE did a pretty good job with their small cubes.

Im not defending BOSE designs here, Im just pointing out that going small is a compromise period. The Law hasnt been defied with this design either.

I created a thread in the DIY forum on it since the experts on this stuff do hang out there. Yes, guys in that forum know as much if not more then anyone working for AT. If the discussion gets going then look out!!! Most of it will just go over our heads

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post #20 of 21 Old 09-18-2009, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Sure but if we are going to use the "Great for its size" logic then people have to be honest and say BOSE did a pretty good job with their small cubes.

Im not defending BOSE designs here, Im just pointing out that going small is a compromise period. The Law hasnt been defied with this design either.

I created a thread in the DIY forum on it since the experts on this stuff do hang out there. Yes, guys in that forum know as much if not more then anyone working for AT. If the discussion gets going then look out!!! Most of it will just go over our heads

Sure..Bose sounds good for what it is...I think that for the price Bose is not worth the money, but that's my opinion. Some people just want that home theater in a box where they don't have to think about which receiver to go with, and what size your rears will be...etc...Bose does an excellent job marketing and it shows every time customers come into or retail store asking for it as if it was the holy grail.

The H-PAS demo was amazing because the speakers were small, but Atlantic Tech made a point stressing the scalability of the design to much larger applications as well.

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post #21 of 21 Old 09-18-2009, 10:16 AM
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In the link you provided, Gonk, they say,
Quote:


In addition, the signals travel through a passive resonance/harmonic distortion line filter.

I'm just wondering how the filter is able to distinguish the signal from the distortion products? Maybe there'll be a reasonable set of measurements to corroborate claims of performance. And yes, Tony, nice to see you around.

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