JBL Pro Cenima Which model??? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 457 Old 11-09-2009, 01:43 PM
 
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Nice room ya have there. One problem I can see is your speaker "stands", those chairs! The JBLs really can't sound that good in that position, but I realize how tough it is to use them as fronts. Do you have any sort of auto room correction such as Audyssey? If so then it would need to be run for the new speakers, as the Rockets are known as being on the warm side. I had 850s and Bigfoot in my theater for a year and really enjoyed them, I'm not surprised that they sound so good to you. It will be interesting to see how the JBLs sound once you've lived with them awhile.
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post #92 of 457 Old 11-09-2009, 02:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

Nice room ya have there. One problem I can see is your speaker "stands", those chairs! The JBLs really can't sound that good in that position, but I realize how tough it is to use them as fronts. Do you have any sort of auto room correction such as Audyssey? If so then it would need to be run for the new speakers, as the Rockets are known as being on the warm side. I had 850s and Bigfoot in my theater for a year and really enjoyed them, I'm not surprised that they sound so good to you. It will be interesting to see how the JBLs sound once you've lived with them awhile.


Thanks for the room comment. As for my really high end chair stands, I know they're only temporary. It gets the JBL off the floor about ear level and with the horns ability to image they should be fine for testing.

Mounting them won't be a big issue once I determine if they'll be used all around or only as surrounds.

And I'm using no room correction, only use it on my Sub, reciever is set to "Straight" so no DSP either.
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post #93 of 457 Old 11-09-2009, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Just an update, I'm pretty sure they're not broke in and DO require breaking in, I walked into the movie room to listen to them and a Bass heavy song was on and they sound like someone plucking on a milk jug (I'm running them in large to get everything moving as much as possible). I checked polarity and all was good there. I guess as MK said about his HUGE JBLs they require a break-in.
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post #94 of 457 Old 11-09-2009, 02:22 PM
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I see a few problems with this comparison. They should never be run full range. They are surround speakers and require a 80 Hz crossover. They need to be raised as you are shooting the horn directly into your ears. They should be placed above you, maybe 5 feet up aiming down(how they are built). Also, they are probably reflecting off that chair(is it metal). You need to place them optimally and set them up optimally. The JBL's are not bright unless your room is bright. Treat the reflections(will be different with different speakers) or run EQ. The biggest mistake I see is running them full range and comparing them to full range speakers. That would be like running the rockets at 125 dB's and saying that don't sound good compared to my speakers. The rockets can't play that loud to begin with. Try to fix what I mentioned and then let us know. Again, they do sound fantastic when run properly. What amp are you using? What processor? Move the speakers up and out where the rockets are(like on top of the rockets) and cross them at 80 Hz with your subs and then check back. I ran very clean power to them with a very good processor(for 2 channel). They are also meant for digital playback. Also, you may just like laid back speakers, these are neutral speakers.
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post #95 of 457 Old 11-09-2009, 02:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdy2179 View Post

Just an update, I'm pretty sure they're not broke in and DO require breaking in, I walked into the movie room to listen to them and a Bass heavy song was on and they sound like someone plucking on a milk jug (I'm running them in large to get everything moving as much as possible). I checked polarity and all was good there. I guess as MK said about his HUGE JBLs they require a break-in.

Concerning bass, don't forget that they were meant as surrounds, the -3db point for lows is only 75hz. Even though the woofer is large, I don't think you'll ever match the Rockets in the bass dept. Too bad about the room eq, Audyssey would tame those highs, and combined with your monster sub the JBLs would probably rock the house!

Edit: MK beat me to it, including my worries about the chairs!
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post #96 of 457 Old 11-09-2009, 02:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I see a few problems with this comparison. They should never be run full range. They are surround speakers and require a 80 Hz crossover. They need to be raised as you are shooting the horn directly into your ears. They should be placed above you, maybe 5 feet up aiming down(how they are built). Also, they are probably reflecting off that chair(is it metal). You need to place them optimally and set them up optimally. The JBL's are not bright unless your room is bright. Treat the reflections(will be different with different speakers) or run EQ. The biggest mistake I see is running them full range and comparing them to full range speakers. That would be like running the rockets at 125 dB's and saying that don't sound good compared to my speakers. The rockets can't play that loud to begin with. Try to fix what I mentioned and then let us know. Again, they do sound fantastic when run properly. What amp are you using? What processor? Move the speakers up and out where the rockets are(like on top of the rockets) and cross them at 80 Hz with your subs and then check back. I ran very clean power to them with a very good processor(for 2 channel). They are also meant for digital playback. Also, you may just like laid back speakers, these are neutral speakers.

I'll try putting them on the tops of the Rockets,although they are currently at ear level and adjusted so they're aiming at the seats slightly toed in.. They're rated flat to 45hz as are the Rockets so I would guess they would get as low. I always cross over at 80hz I'm just trying to see what they can do on their own in 2 channel music.

As for sounding bright, It's not really bright like the Klipsch Rf series I owned, its more overpowering and harsh, kinda hard to explain.

As for catching room reflections, see my pics. the room is well treated ceiling included. But then again it's not that it's not clear or muddy like reflections would cause, it's just more overwelming sound.

They're being pushed by an Emotiva XPA-3.

After going back there a few minutes ago, they do sound better after a few hours of cranking.

I may set them on some acoustic material in case the chairs are affecting them.
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post #97 of 457 Old 11-09-2009, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Also, they are probably reflecting off that chair(is it metal). You need to place them optimally and set them up optimally.

This was my first thought too. As well as not having them spaced similarly as the Rockets. I know there is enthusiasm and anxiety about getting a new product but it would be best to try to keep the playing field as level as possible
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post #98 of 457 Old 11-09-2009, 02:56 PM
 
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[quote=cdy2179;17504412]I'll try putting them on the tops of the Rockets,although they are currently at ear level and adjusted so they're aiming at the seats slightly toed in.. They're rated flat to 45hz as are the Rockets so I would guess they would get as low.

Nope, that's actually the -10db point. Check out the specs here http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/Genera...x?FId=34&MId=1
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post #99 of 457 Old 11-09-2009, 03:06 PM - Thread Starter
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[quote=floridapoolboy;17504445]
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdy2179 View Post

I'll try putting them on the tops of the Rockets,although they are currently at ear level and adjusted so they're aiming at the seats slightly toed in.. They're rated flat to 45hz as are the Rockets so I would guess they would get as low.

Nope, that's actually the -10db point. Check out the specs here http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/Genera...x?FId=34&MId=1

You're right, that explains alot Well they're definately changing tonaly. I looked at the chairs and they're actually plastic cloth covered, but the speakers are so large that their really isn't anything sticking out past the baffle to reflect off of anyways, but they sound less harsh now. I'm gonna go watch Iorn Man on them, Crossed over at 80hz of course
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post #100 of 457 Old 11-09-2009, 03:19 PM
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Correct Floridapoolboy. They need to be crossed over. What is happening is that the horn is very efficient and can play louder much easier where the woofer can not for full range duty. Once you cross them over the woofer becomes much more efficient as well. You do not want to put the horn right at ear level. Try having the horn shoot over your head, not at your ears. The speakers are very powerful. If you told me from the beginning that you were going to run them full range I would have said no way, don't bother. I don't even run my 3622N's full range. Run the rockets full range and then run the jbl's small with an 80 crossover into your subs to compare. What subs are you using? If they are very good for music then you will get a better understanding. Also, pro drivers are very stiff and need break in so that 10 inch is still breaking in but still won't be able to do full range when broken in. The reason I want you to do this is for other people to. There are 2 many comparisons on here(especially subs) with not exact or proper placement for optimal use for both sets of subs or speakers which does not create an equal playing field. Remember what you are doing, comparing inexpensive surround speakers in 2 channel (full range) against more expensive (made for full range and 2 channel) speakers. This test is not favorable towards the JBL. Switch it around. Put in some movies, run them on small with 80 hz crossover and place the jbls up higher facing above your head, not at your ears. I bet the results will be different. I crossed mine over to my sub system which makes them sound full range. Big difference.
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post #101 of 457 Old 11-09-2009, 03:39 PM
 
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How well do sounds coming above and in front of you sound like they are directly in front of you (if angled down properly)? I'm wondering how these would sound ~8.5ft high (to center of 8340), above a screen as opposed to the traditional ear height tweeter floorstander setup. Is the height noticeable, sounding like the front sound stage is above you instead of in front?

I know most people make do with a center channel below screen tilted up- and some even have all three below screen tilted up. I can only imagine this (above tilted down) would work out the same if not better?

Also, would it be recommended to get the adjustable mount for the fronts, in order to "toe" the L&R's in toward center listening position?
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post #102 of 457 Old 11-09-2009, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by LilGator View Post

How well do sounds coming above and in front of you sound like they are directly in front of you (if angled down properly)?

I have my current center channel ( ELT525) hanging from the ceiling. It was the only place I could put it as my 119" screen takes up most of the wall, it pulls down in front of a 50" plasma tv. I have my ELT towers proped up about 12" off of the floor on my old bookshelf speakers to bring them closer together. The center is mounted with a swivel / tilt 15" LCD TV mount from Monoprice so I was able to aim it directly to the listening position. 99% of the time the sound is anchored in the middle of the screen where it belongs.

If I choose to go with these JBLs for my dedicated space, I would have no issue hanging the LCR speakers just below the ceiling, above the screen.
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post #103 of 457 Old 11-09-2009, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chadci View Post

I have my current center channel ( ELT525) hanging from the ceiling. It was the only place I could put it as my 119" screen takes up most of the wall, it pulls down in front of a 50" plasma tv. I have my ELT towers proped up about 12" off of the floor on my old bookshelf speakers to bring them closer together. The center is mounted with a swivel / tilt 15" LCD TV mount from Monoprice so I was able to aim it directly to the listening position. 99% of the time the sound is anchored in the middle of the screen where it belongs.

If I choose to go with these JBLs for my dedicated space, I would have no issue hanging the LCR speakers just below the ceiling, above the screen.

If you look at my pics my center is above the screen aimed down, this is where the 8340s will go if I use them all around, I only have them where they are now for testing, so please don't think this was permanent, although the chairs make really nice speaker stands! The mains I'll mount a little lower about 6 1/2' or so.

Also I ALWAYS crossover to 80hz, I just misread the specs and thought the 45hz was the 3db point. I was only testing.
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post #104 of 457 Old 11-09-2009, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
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The sound is definately getting better, I have a 2 channel version of iornman and I could tell a difference.

For instance the pages turning a during the DC comic book intro was hard to hear on all of my previous speakers (except the Klipsch RFs). Now they come through clear and easily heard. I've had to also turn down the reciever from -15 to -25 so I also had to adjust my sub to make up for this, this may have been part of the overbearing feeling I was having, along with the drivers being new. It really does have more of a theater sound than any other speakers i've heard.

It'll be a few more days before I'm sure what I'll do, but they are getting better.

Now I must find some brackets as they will surely being staying as surrounds if not mains as well.
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post #105 of 457 Old 11-09-2009, 04:46 PM
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I am not sure if they need to be toed in. These speakers are very accurate and you can hear many different details which takes time getting used to. Just the fact that you are even considering these for mains says something about them. Try using other surrounds for mains, not gonna happen.

What subs are you using?
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post #106 of 457 Old 11-09-2009, 04:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I am not sure if they need to be toed in. These speakers are very accurate and you can hear many different details which takes time getting used to. Just the fact that you are even considering these for mains says something about them. Try using other surrounds for mains, not gonna happen.

What subs are you using?

I've got two Fi 18s in an IB pushed by a Behringer 1500 and EQ'ed by BFD. (Behringer Feedback Destroyer) It's flat to 3hz and has more output than should be legal I don't use nearly what it's capable of.

As for the toed-in, It probably isn't needed as you said, it's just habit.

On your surrounds do you have them aimed down or straight across?
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post #107 of 457 Old 11-09-2009, 04:55 PM
 
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cdy, where did you get your JBLs? I was looking at Full Compass, but they say delivery in 3 to 4 WEEKS! Where's the best place to buy JBL pro stuff?
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post #108 of 457 Old 11-09-2009, 05:11 PM
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I have my surrounds facing down in the corners. Cross those speakers to that IB, I bet they sound much better once the bass is leveled to the horns. Make sure you calibrate them flat or the subs 3 db's hot.
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post #109 of 457 Old 11-09-2009, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

cdy, where did you get your JBLs? I was looking at Full Compass, but they say delivery in 3 to 4 WEEKS! Where's the best place to buy JBL pro stuff?

I looked at B&H but they only have the 20s. Their shipping times were about half of Full Compass.
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post #110 of 457 Old 11-09-2009, 05:50 PM
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Gotcha, did you just buy 1 pair? Maybe it was the *other* thread but somebody bought 2 pairs of the 40s and 3 of the big boys, I may have been confusing posters, sorry.

I ordered the big three and 2 pairs of these for surrounds... the mains are in transit and the surrounds are back ordered
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post #111 of 457 Old 11-09-2009, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

cdy, where did you get your JBLs? I was looking at Full Compass, but they say delivery in 3 to 4 WEEKS! Where's the best place to buy JBL pro stuff?

I bought the last two Full Compass had in stock. Be sure and order the brackets too, I'm going to have to wait a few weeks before the brackets come in.
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post #112 of 457 Old 11-09-2009, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by cdy2179 View Post

I bought the last two Full Compass had in stock. Be sure and order the brackets too, I'm going to have to wait a few weeks before the brackets come in.

You would think that with a speaker that has to have some sort of mount they would be included
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post #113 of 457 Old 11-09-2009, 09:42 PM
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The 8340a seems to be in stock at avgiant. Although I have no idea if they're a reputable dealer.

Anyone have any feedback on them?
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post #114 of 457 Old 11-10-2009, 01:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chadci View Post

You would think that with a speaker that has to have some sort of mount they would be included

Why? As a supplier to installers, you would never be able to know the venue or application that they will actually be used in, irrespective of where the designer specified. So any extra parts can be ordered, as needed.
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post #115 of 457 Old 11-10-2009, 04:10 AM
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Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

Why? As a supplier to installers, you would never be able to know the venue or application that they will actually be used in, irrespective of where the designer specified. So any extra parts can be ordered, as needed.

You're right, you may not now where it will be used however, have you seen this speaker? It will not stand on it's on so it has to be hung. You would think it would at least have key hole mounts or include the hanging mount. I really don't see what the problem with that is. I don't see Ford selling cars without a steering wheel.
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post #116 of 457 Old 11-10-2009, 04:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chadci View Post

You would think that with a speaker that has to have some sort of mount they would be included

The company I called said normally they only do large orders for theater installations and brackets are ordered depending on the mount they need. The brackets come in a flush mount model and a adjustable pivoting model.

I may try AVgiant as tommyGee stated they may be in stock but their price was a little high.
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post #117 of 457 Old 11-10-2009, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdy2179 View Post

The company I called said normally they only do large orders for theater installations and brackets are ordered depending on the mount they need. The brackets come in a flush mount model and a adjustable pivoting model.

Good deal.

Do any more listening?

You might check B&H for the brackets

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...e_Bracket.html
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post #118 of 457 Old 11-10-2009, 04:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Another update:

My wife got off work last night and we listened together. They are definately showing what they can do.

At the begining of Transformers right before the first attack on the desert military base the guys are flying on the chopper out to the base.

With the bigfoot the words are easily heard.
With the JBLs They are much, much more pronounced and in your face, the bigfoot kinda places the voices more in the background where the JBL puts them way in the foregrounds. Emulates the Movies theaters really well.

I'm still waiting for them to break-in as music sounds kinda weak (crossed over to 80hz)
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post #119 of 457 Old 11-10-2009, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdy2179 View Post

Another update:

My wife got off work last night and we listened together. They are definately showing what they can do.

At the begining of Transformers right before the first attack on the desert military base the guys are flying on the chopper out to the base.

With the bigfoot the words are easily heard.
With the JBLs They are much, much more pronounced and in your face, the bigfoot kinda places the voices more in the background where the JBL puts them way in the foregrounds. Emulates the Movies theaters really well.

I'm still waiting for them to break-in as music sounds kinda weak (crossed over to 80hz)


Good deal, I've really been wanting speakers that sound like movie theater speakers... that I can afford. I really like my AV123 speakers for music and intend to keep them for that in the living room, possibly get a Cambridge audio or NAD integrated amp for them, I can always use my retired Onkyo 503 but it does not have much juice and no pre amp outs. Thanks for playing with these!

And for the record, their bracketless feature will not stop me should I choose this route, I just think that if something has to be mounted it should come with the hardware.
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post #120 of 457 Old 11-10-2009, 04:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdy2179 View Post


With the bigfoot the words are easily heard.
With the JBLs They are much, much more pronounced and in your face, the bigfoot kinda places the voices more in the background where the JBL puts them way in the foregrounds. Emulates the Movies theaters really well.

Now, you're just using them in 2 channel, correct? I wonder how they would be in the center position. From the pictures it looks like your seating is pretty well centered.
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