GoldenEar Technologies Anticipation Thread - Page 127 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 01-16-2016, 02:16 PM
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Positioning Triton Ones Relative to Back Wall

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Originally Posted by Dr.sah View Post
Are triton one difficult for positions and must me pulled away from wall? Current speakers are close to back wall, as my living room is not too big.
Hi, The Triton Ones have a level control on the powered low frequency/sub section, so you can easily tune them for close positioning to your back wall. All the Best, Sandy
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Old 01-16-2016, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elitegti17 View Post
Thanks everyone! I just spent the morning demoing and I walked out with the 7's. More refined, accurate, and a much greater presence than the B&W. I understand were comparing a bookshelf to a tower but bass aside the ge's were just better. Can't wait to get home and hook them up!!
7's over the CM6 S2?

Really?
Will be interesting when you get the 7's home and do a comparison with the B&W's
Really difficult though as volume plays a HUGE factor in what sounds better.

Just as a side note - I went to Tave's 2015 in Toronto at the end of November. Some pretty expensive hardware - I think the most expensive room was north of $500K. Did I get home and cart my 7's to the curb after that?
No - just made me appreciate my modest system more actually.
That and the fact that I returned to listen to music that is somewhat recent.
You can only handle so much of the crap they play at these shows.
Aesthetically the piano black finish on the 7's and the SB-2000's far exceeded speakers costing 10's of thousands. I was kinda shocked how bad the surface finish on some of these "audiophile" speakers were - orange peel, wavy curves - terrible.
Martin Logan Neolith? Garbage finish on those. Looks like they were built in a shed.

One of the highlights was seeing the Goldmund active tower speakers. Wireless and powered by a standard 5-15 power cord. No fancy cables - just good engineering and good sound - albeit for a ridiculous "lifestyle" price ~$20K.

As long as your equipment doesn't get in the way of enjoying your media - just be happy. Chasing the rainbow unicorn will be fruitless.

Report back on the comparison of the 7's vs. CM6 S2's.
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Old 01-16-2016, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Incriminator View Post
7's over the CM6 S2?

Really?
Will be interesting when you get the 7's home and do a comparison with the B&W's
Really difficult though as volume plays a HUGE factor in what sounds better.

Just as a side note - I went to Tave's 2015 in Toronto at the end of November. Some pretty expensive hardware - I think the most expensive room was north of $500K. Did I get home and cart my 7's to the curb after that?
No - just made me appreciate my modest system more actually.
That and the fact that I returned to listen to music that is somewhat recent.
You can only handle so much of the crap they play at these shows.
Aesthetically the piano black finish on the 7's and the SB-2000's far exceeded speakers costing 10's of thousands. I was kinda shocked how bad the surface finish on some of these "audiophile" speakers were - orange peel, wavy curves - terrible.
Martin Logan Neolith? Garbage finish on those. Looks like they were built in a shed.

One of the highlights was seeing the Goldmund active tower speakers. Wireless and powered by a standard 5-15 power cord. No fancy cables - just good engineering and good sound - albeit for a ridiculous "lifestyle" price ~$20K.

As long as your equipment doesn't get in the way of enjoying your media - just be happy. Chasing the rainbow unicorn will be fruitless.

Report back on the comparison of the 7's vs. CM6 S2's.

After comparing the two, the tritons best the cm6 in everything except looks. The imaging is incredible, more body to the music it's like the musicians are in the room with you! The cm6 sound great don't get me wrong but I think a more fair comparison would be the cm9 or 10 towers,but at twice the cost respectively GE represents a huge value. There was a demo that the dealer used of a live opera performance and the GE revealed some details that the B&W was unable to. I would have been perfectly happy with the cm6 had I not heard the GE as I felt the cm6 were better than the 683s2 , Martin Logan motion and Deftech Bp8040 which I brought home last week and returned. The truth is with so many good speakers in the market, you will drive yourself crazy reading reviews and comparing. As you said the most important thing is to enjoy your media. I know I will!
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Old 01-16-2016, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elitegti17 View Post
After comparing the two, the tritons best the cm6 in everything except looks. The imaging is incredible, more body to the music it's like the musicians are in the room with you! The cm6 sound great don't get me wrong but I think a more fair comparison would be the cm9 or 10 towers,but at twice the cost respectively GE represents a huge value. There was a demo that the dealer used of a live opera performance and the GE revealed some details that the B&W was unable to. I would have been perfectly happy with the cm6 had I not heard the GE as I felt the cm6 were better than the 683s2 , Martin Logan motion and Deftech Bp8040 which I brought home last week and returned. The truth is with so many good speakers in the market, you will drive yourself crazy reading reviews and comparing. As you said the most important thing is to enjoy your media. I know I will!
Elitegti17 - Great to hear. I too went through the usual suspects of speakers before settling on the 7's. I had stand mounts - convinced I wanted towers - despite reinforcing the bass with 2 subs.
Seemed like GE was everywhere - tons of reviews, tons of advertising.
Marketing monster.
Was I swayed by the hype and marketing? I'd like to think not.
Was I swayed by the countless speakers with Air Motion Tweeters? A little. Seems like the current tech - cheap and sounds great.
I would like to think I valued the engineering - non parallel sides, sloped front, cost effective cabinet, and a tweeter shared with their flagship. Sure the exotic veneers of some manufacturers would likely look nicer, but outside of the ridiculous to keep pristine gloss piano black - I think the 7's are nice.
I also valued the support I received from GE. I wrote them with questions - they answered. Not only answered, but DETAILED answers. That was a factor for sure. Not too many manufactures do this. Kudos for that!
I really wanted to purchase Canadian speakers - and in a sense - these can almost be considered Canadian.
Goes to show what good engineering can achieve.
When I brought my 7's home I wired them up alongside my previous stand mounts - took all of 5 seconds before those speakers were out and listed for sale. Talk about purchase validation - no buyer's remorse with this purchase.
Likely my experience with the 7's factored into the purchase of the 5's recently by my Cousin.

My only regret? How revealing the speakers are with crappy recordings. I now hear how often TV/movie dialog is clipped/distorted because microphone levels aren't set properly. News is typically the worst. It's almost as if the speaker is broken - so I have to convince myself that the speaker is fine - the recording is broken.
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Old 01-16-2016, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elitegti17 View Post
After comparing the two, the tritons best the cm6 in everything except looks.
Elitegti17 - Great to hear. I too went through the usual suspects of speakers before settling on the 7's. I had stand mounts - convinced I wanted towers - despite reinforcing the bass with 2 subs.
Seemed like GE was everywhere - tons of reviews, tons of advertising.
Marketing monster.
Was I swayed by the hype and marketing? I'd like to think not.
Was I swayed by the countless speakers with Air Motion Tweeters? A little. Seems like the current tech - cheap and sounds great.
I would like to think I valued the engineering - non parallel sides, sloped front, cost effective cabinet, and a tweeter shared with their flagship. Sure the exotic veneers of some manufacturers would likely look nicer, but outside of the ridiculous to keep pristine gloss piano black - I think the 7's are nice.
I also valued the support I received from GE. I wrote them with questions - they answered. Not only answered, but DETAILED answers. That was a factor for sure. Not too many manufactures do this. Kudos for that!
I really wanted to purchase Canadian speakers - and in a sense - these can almost be considered Canadian.
Goes to show what good engineering can achieve.
When I brought my 7's home I wired them up alongside my previous stand mounts - took all of 5 seconds before those speakers were out and listed for sale. Talk about purchase validation - no buyer's remorse with this purchase.
Likely my experience with the 7's factored into the purchase of the 5's recently by my Cousin.

My only regret? How revealing the speakers are with crappy recordings. I now hear how often TV/movie dialog is clipped/distorted because microphone levels aren't set properly. News is typically the worst. It's almost as if the speaker is broken - so I have to convince myself that the speaker is fine - the recording is broken.
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Old 01-16-2016, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Incriminator View Post
Elitegti17 - Great to hear. I too went through the usual suspects of speakers before settling on the 7's. I had stand mounts - convinced I wanted towers - despite reinforcing the bass with 2 subs.
Seemed like GE was everywhere - tons of reviews, tons of advertising.
Marketing monster.
Was I swayed by the hype and marketing? I'd like to think not.
Was I swayed by the countless speakers with Air Motion Tweeters? A little. Seems like the current tech - cheap and sounds great.
I would like to think I valued the engineering - non parallel sides, sloped front, cost effective cabinet, and a tweeter shared with their flagship. Sure the exotic veneers of some manufacturers would likely look nicer, but outside of the ridiculous to keep pristine gloss piano black - I think the 7's are nice.
I also valued the support I received from GE. I wrote them with questions - they answered. Not only answered, but DETAILED answers. That was a factor for sure. Not too many manufactures do this. Kudos for that!
I really wanted to purchase Canadian speakers - and in a sense - these can almost be considered Canadian.
Goes to show what good engineering can achieve.
When I brought my 7's home I wired them up alongside my previous stand mounts - took all of 5 seconds before those speakers were out and listed for sale. Talk about purchase validation - no buyer's remorse with this purchase.
Likely my experience with the 7's factored into the purchase of the 5's recently by my Cousin.

My only regret? How revealing the speakers are with crappy recordings. I now hear how often TV/movie dialog is clipped/distorted because microphone levels aren't set properly. News is typically the worst. It's almost as if the speaker is broken - so I have to convince myself that the speaker is fine - the recording is broken.
Yeah I can see that these speakers will definitely reveal some badly recorded programs. I agree with you about the support as I called them today, and the rep was professional, detailed and was not in a rush to get me off the phone.It reminded me of the stellar service provided by svs. The reviews for these speakers whether professional or by consumers has been fantastic. I can't remember reading about a speaker brand so well received in a long time. Sometimes you wonder if it's all hype,but in this case I think the praise is deserved!
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Old 01-17-2016, 04:38 AM
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I haven't posted in roughly a year since I bought my Triton 1s, so I thought I'd give a quick update. These remain to be the best speakers I have ever owned (and remember they are right next to my 10k Focal Electras). They are beautiful sounding in every audiophile adjective I could sputter about them. Thanks Sandy for brining me back in touch with the music and forgetting the fruitless equipment pursuit.
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Old 01-17-2016, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Incriminator View Post
My only regret? How revealing the speakers are with crappy recordings. I now hear how often TV/movie dialog is clipped/distorted because microphone levels aren't set properly. News is typically the worst. It's almost as if the speaker is broken - so I have to convince myself that the speaker is fine - the recording is broken.
+1 on this. For me, The Today Show is the absolute worst. I don't know what they're doing wrong, but it makes the show sound like it's recorded inside a cardboard box. I got the Decca Analog Years box set for Christmas, and it's impressive and instructive listening to the best different eras could do. I could even hear the infamous "Decca Rumble" from the studio that sat on top of a tube station.
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Old 01-17-2016, 05:17 PM
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Question about setup. I have Triton 2s and was wondering if you turn the gain nob all the way down while running audyssey?

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Old 01-18-2016, 11:18 AM
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Can I ask anyone who installed the HTR 7000s for Dolby Atmos if they installed within Dolby's recommended angle specs? I'm wondering if the 30 degree built in angle of the speakers would change the location where one would install them.

I'm using 4 HTR 7000s as in-ceiling heights. When I installed mine, I wound up installing them at about 25 degrees (Dolby recommends 30-55 degrees) Perhaps erroneously, I thought the built in angle would compensate for being out of spec. Likely going to re-install as I am not completely happy with the Atmos effect, definitely missing out on some directly over your head experience.

Last edited by easystar; 01-18-2016 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 01-18-2016, 02:56 PM
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I have 4 HTR 7000's in the ceiling and placed them about three to four feet in front and behind my chairs. I was limited to the width so they are as wide as my four theater chairs (8 to 10 feet wide of each other).

They sound fantastic to me.

Quote:
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Can I ask anyone who installed the HTR 7000s for Dolby Atmos if they installed within Dolby's recommended angle specs? I'm wondering if the 30 degree built in angle of the speakers would change the location where one would install them.

I'm using 4 HTR 7000s as in-ceiling heights. When I installed mine, I wound up installing them at about 25 degrees (Dolby recommends 30-55 degrees) Perhaps erroneously, I thought the built in angle would compensate for being out of spec. Likely going to re-install as I am not completely happy with the Atmos effect, definitely missing out on some directly over your head experience.



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Old 01-18-2016, 03:52 PM
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Did you ever measure the speaker angles? Or did you just eyeball it like I did. And did the built in angle affect your placement? i.e., would you have spaced them the same if they were normal down firing like the Invisal 650s?

Mine are 10 feet from front to back and 14 feet from left to right.

They are fine sounding speakers like you said, I just don't feel like I'm getting the full Atmos effect.

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Originally Posted by Bigham16 View Post
I have 4 HTR 7000's in the ceiling and placed them about three to four feet in front and behind my chairs. I was limited to the width so they are as wide as my four theater chairs (8 to 10 feet wide of each other).

They sound fantastic to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by easystar View Post
Can I ask anyone who installed the HTR 7000s for Dolby Atmos if they installed within Dolby's recommended angle specs? I'm wondering if the 30 degree built in angle of the speakers would change the location where one would install them.

I'm using 4 HTR 7000s as in-ceiling heights. When I installed mine, I wound up installing them at about 25 degrees (Dolby recommends 30-55 degrees) Perhaps erroneously, I thought the built in angle would compensate for being out of spec. Likely going to re-install as I am not completely happy with the Atmos effect, definitely missing out on some directly over your head experience.
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Old 01-19-2016, 08:19 AM
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Well after spending the weekend setting up and doing some critical listening, I have to say I love the triton 7's! I'm really liking the ribbon tweeter, more detailed and in my opinion less fatiguing than a typical dome tweeter. The speakers create a massive sound stage and make you feel immersed in everything from music to movies. The speakers reveal so much detail, I am truly impressed. It's to bad I didn't listen to the triton 1's just for kicks as I can only imagine how those sound!
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Old 01-19-2016, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
The Emotiva XPA-5 (Gen2) is on sale now and offers the best bang for the buck for an external amp.
Thanks for the heads-up steveting99!! I've noticed a number of comments on the internet referring to a humming noise. That being said, I was looking at Anthem's MCA 50. I know,, it's a pricey beast.. But, no hum, and, a lot of horse power.
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Old 01-19-2016, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by John Budny View Post
It looks like Monoprice will be offering an amp soon that you may want to consider with the above mentioned Emotiva.

I'm very happy with my Outlaw Audio 7700 (200 Watts 7 channels), it's a slight step up in price from the Emotiva/Monoprice 200 Watt/7 channel offerings but seems to be a very good quality product and has opened up my GET speakers compared to the AVR I upgraded from.
Good to hear! I'm a bit of a loyalest, currently own Anthem, but I'll take a look into these. I was planning on upgrading to a 7.1 and the Outlaw looks interesting!
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Old 01-20-2016, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elitegti17 View Post
It's to bad I didn't listen to the triton 1's just for kicks as I can only imagine how those sound!
Be careful with that, the 1's are incredible!

Enjoy your 7's!

Marantz AV8802A | Wyred 4 Sound (500W X 3, 250W X 2) | Marantz MM7025 (140W X 2) | Oppo BDP-83 & BDP-103D (waiting for 4K ) | ATV3 | Popcorn Hour V-Ten | Vizo M65-C1 (waiting for Oled to mature a bit) | MiniDSP DDRC-88A | Oppo PM1 | APC H-15 power conditioners (x2)
GoldenEar Triton 1's (FL & FR) | SuperCenter XL (C) | Aon 2's (SL & SR) | SuperSat 3's (FHL & FHR) | SVS PB13-Ultra
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Old 01-20-2016, 03:05 PM
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HTR 7000s for Atmos Height Speakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by easystar View Post
Can I ask anyone who installed the HTR 7000s for Dolby Atmos if they installed within Dolby's recommended angle specs? I'm wondering if the 30 degree built in angle of the speakers would change the location where one would install them.

I'm using 4 HTR 7000s as in-ceiling heights. When I installed mine, I wound up installing them at about 25 degrees (Dolby recommends 30-55 degrees) Perhaps erroneously, I thought the built in angle would compensate for being out of spec. Likely going to re-install as I am not completely happy with the Atmos effect, definitely missing out on some directly over your head experience.
I'm not quite sure what you are describing? We suggest that the front height speakers go 2-3 feet forward of the front listening position, and 2-3 feet outside left and right. With the rears, similar behind the rear listening position. Then rotate them so they are all pointed at the center of the listening area. This has really worked well. If you go up on our site, go to support and go to Atmos, we describe it in some detail. Thanks, Sandy
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Old 01-20-2016, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
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Be careful with that, the 1's are incredible!

Enjoy your 7's!
As incredible as the 1's may be - if you have a couple SB-13 Ultras in proper positions and are crossing the speakers over at 80Hz or higher - then the whole sub section of the 1's is kind of neutered.
Remember that the best position for stereo imaging is likely NOT the best position for even bass - despite having two. I doubt the "sub" section in the 1's would be able to output the same SPL and low distortion of 2 SB-13 Ultra's. So going along with this argument - pitting a diminutive Aon 2 + SB-13 for $2000ea vs. T1's @ $2500ea would be interesting.

Just look at the MTM D'Appolito arrangement in a separate enclosure of the T1's - 2 x 5.25" cast basket midrange


Vs. Triton 7's Diappolito arrangement of 2 x 5.25" cast basket midrange drivers.


Biggest difference? The 7's 5.25" are meant to be full range, while the 2x5.25" of the T1's aren't. So the T1's 5.25" driver enclosure may be better suited to produce smoother midrange.

It could be argued that the sweet spot for a 2 way design is a single or dual (if you like DiAppolito) 6-6.5" + tweeter.

Likely the passive crossover network for the T1's is better than the T7/T5's but who knows - it's the same tweeter.

I'm a big fan of subs and dsp correction - say what you want about phase and coherence, and such.
Ideally I'd like my home system to not have any passive crossovers at all - go full active.
Regardless of the technology - if you dig the sound - then that's what is important.

What annoys me most about this hobby is the people who purchase a $1500 power cord and then claim it is a revelation of clarity. These are the same people that buy $2000 ethernet cables to stream their digital audio to their $25K DACS preserve the bits. They then proceed to feed all these jitter free pristine electrons (or holes?) through a tube amplifier that adds "warmth" or as engineers like to call a spade a spade - "distortion".

But T7 > CM6 S2 even for the high frequency?
TAS review of the CM6 S2 - describe the highs on the B&W "a little on the bright side"
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Old 01-21-2016, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Incriminator View Post
As incredible as the 1's may be - if you have a couple SB-13 Ultras in proper positions and are crossing the speakers over at 80Hz or higher - then the whole sub section of the 1's is kind of neutered.
Remember that the best position for stereo imaging is likely NOT the best position for even bass - despite having two. I doubt the "sub" section in the 1's would be able to output the same SPL and low distortion of 2 SB-13 Ultra's. So going along with this argument - pitting a diminutive Aon 2 + SB-13 for $2000ea vs. T1's @ $2500ea would be interesting.

Just look at the MTM D'Appolito arrangement in a separate enclosure of the T1's - 2 x 5.25" cast basket midrange


Vs. Triton 7's Diappolito arrangement of 2 x 5.25" cast basket midrange drivers.


Biggest difference? The 7's 5.25" are meant to be full range, while the 2x5.25" of the T1's aren't. So the T1's 5.25" driver enclosure may be better suited to produce smoother midrange.

It could be argued that the sweet spot for a 2 way design is a single or dual (if you like DiAppolito) 6-6.5" + tweeter.

Likely the passive crossover network for the T1's is better than the T7/T5's but who knows - it's the same tweeter.

I'm a big fan of subs and dsp correction - say what you want about phase and coherence, and such.
Ideally I'd like my home system to not have any passive crossovers at all - go full active.
Regardless of the technology - if you dig the sound - then that's what is important.

What annoys me most about this hobby is the people who purchase a $1500 power cord and then claim it is a revelation of clarity. These are the same people that buy $2000 ethernet cables to stream their digital audio to their $25K DACS preserve the bits. They then proceed to feed all these jitter free pristine electrons (or holes?) through a tube amplifier that adds "warmth" or as engineers like to call a spade a spade - "distortion".

But T7 > CM6 S2 even for the high frequency?
TAS review of the CM6 S2 - describe the highs on the B&W "a little on the bright side"

Thanks for the post! Unfortunately I only have one SB-13 for now but it blends well and sounds fantastic with the tritons. Funny that you should post that article on the CM-6 as the highs were exactly that, a little bright even harsh on some recordings. The problem was when I did not toe them in the imaging suffered for stereo playback. I actually felt the CM6 could be a little fatiguing imo after awhile at moderate levels where as the Tritons were pleasant to listen to regardless of volume. Again not taking anything away from the CM6 as it is a great speaker just not as good as the GE. Funny that you mention the power cord as the sales rep tried to sell me on the cable argument and that upgrading speaker wire would make a world of difference. Didn't call him out on it as I know better but I see how those who don't can fall into that trap.
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Old 01-21-2016, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Incriminator View Post
As incredible as the 1's may be - if you have a couple SB-13 Ultras in proper positions and are crossing the speakers over at 80Hz or higher - then the whole sub section of the 1's is kind of neutered.
Remember that the best position for stereo imaging is likely NOT the best position for even bass - despite having two. I doubt the "sub" section in the 1's would be able to output the same SPL and low distortion of 2 SB-13 Ultra's. So going along with this argument - pitting a diminutive Aon 2 + SB-13 for $2000ea vs. T1's @ $2500ea would be interesting.

J

I have to agree with you on this. I had auditioned the Triton 1s and Mythos ST-Ls (Def Tech) and settled for the Mythos based on my preference. I initially thought that either one of these two models would give great bass for movies - and the Mythos does give awesome bass. However listening to my friend's modest home theater system with two RA subs, threw my thinking out of the window. Separate subs can go way lower than these models at high SPL levels - the difference has to be heard to be understood. Movies like Mad Max FR, Gravity etc. come to life with separate subs. I then tried to find data on actual measured FR for the Triton 1s and my Mythos ST-Ls - You can see the FR for the ST-L here and for the Triton 1 here. As can be seen the FR starts to tank below 30 Hz, not anywhere close to the published specs (not to mention that the bass in some movies goes way lower - Cloverfield has bass that goes way below 20 Hz).

I decided to get a JTR Captivator 1400 sub for myself and the difference is unbelievable. Movies have come to life and my ST-Ls sound awesome now (since I have set the crossover to around 60 Hz and let the Cap handle the bass). My friend who has the Triton 1s went for the Seaton subs and his Triton 1s sound amazing too. I do use the ST-Ls full range for music (as there is very little content below 35 Hz or so). I could honestly leave my crossover at 80 Hz or so, given that bass can't be localized at or below that frequency, but find the sound a little more refined at 60 Hz.

Bottom-line is that if I could do it again (or if I had to advise other people), I would not bother with full range speakers (with built in bass modules) as they just can't compete with a proper sub-woofer. Moreover as mentioned in the post I referenced, the placement of the sub to get best imaging, might differ drastically from where these floor standing speakers would be positioned. Best to get great bookshelf speakers (GE or another brand) and add one or two good sub-woofers - that system will beat the pants off any full range speaker system.


Cheers,
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Old 01-21-2016, 07:22 AM
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I have to agree with you on this. I had auditioned the Triton 1s and Mythos ST-Ls (Def Tech) and settled for the Mythos based on my preference. I initially thought that either one of these two models would give great bass for movies - and the Mythos does give awesome bass. However listening to my friend's modest home theater system with two RA subs, threw my thinking out of the window. Separate subs can go way lower than these models at high SPL levels - the difference has to be heard to be understood. Movies like Mad Max FR, Gravity etc. come to life with separate subs. I then tried to find data on actual measured FR for the Triton 1s and my Mythos ST-Ls - You can see the FR for the ST-L here and for the Triton 1 here. As can be seen the FR starts to tank below 30 Hz, not anywhere close to the published specs (not to mention that the bass in some movies goes way lower - Cloverfield has bass that goes way below 20 Hz).

I decided to get a JTR Captivator 1400 sub for myself and the difference is unbelievable. Movies have come to life and my ST-Ls sound awesome now (since I have set the crossover to around 60 Hz and let the Cap handle the bass). My friend who has the Triton 1s went for the Seaton subs and his Triton 1s sound amazing too. I do use the ST-Ls full range for music (as there is very little content below 35 Hz or so). I could honestly leave my crossover at 80 Hz or so, given that bass can't be localized at or below that frequency, but find the sound a little more refined at 60 Hz.

Bottom-line is that if I could do it again (or if I had to advise other people), I would not bother with full range speakers (with built in bass modules) as they just can't compete with a proper sub-woofer. Moreover as mentioned in the post I referenced, the placement of the sub to get best imaging, might differ drastically from where these floor standing speakers would be positioned. Best to get great bookshelf speakers (GE or another brand) and add one or two good sub-woofers - that system will beat the pants off any full range speaker system.


Cheers,

All of this may be true but 1) it assumes a bias towards home theater. I could make the exact opposite post about my experiences with 2ch music and integrating a sub. And 2) your opinion is also heavily biased towards the quantity of bass (SPL and FR are both just measures of HOW MUCH bass you have at a given frequency) and makes no promises to the quality of bass. If you think an Aon 2 and SVS sub are going to sound better than Triton 1, god bless you.
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Old 01-21-2016, 09:26 AM
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All of this may be true but 1) it assumes a bias towards home theater. I could make the exact opposite post about my experiences with 2ch music and integrating a sub. And 2) your opinion is also heavily biased towards the quantity of bass (SPL and FR are both just measures of HOW MUCH bass you have at a given frequency) and makes no promises to the quality of bass. If you think an Aon 2 and SVS sub are going to sound better than Triton 1, god bless you.

To recap: I referenced actual measurements made for the floor standing speakers (Triton 1 and the ST-L), which show that the FR drops dramatically at lower frequencies (below 35 Hz or so). Yes, that doesn't speak to the quality of the bass, but I did also reference Seaton and JTR subs. Are you honestly saying that Seaton and JTR subs (for that matter, HSU, SVS, RA or any sub from a dedicated subwoofer manufacturer) provide lower quality bass than the Triton 1? If not, then what did you mean? And quality of the bass doesn't even come into the equation for these floor standing towers, because as the graphs show, the SPL level drops immensely at lower frequencies. How can you judge the quality of the bass at sub 40 Hz frequencies when you aren't even getting reasonable output at these lower frequencies? BTW placement of the sub is definitely an issue - whether it's music or movies. It's very possible that you will not get good response by having the sub in the tower itself as placement of a sub for optimal output varies greatly depending on the room in which it is placed.

I have no problems in reiterating that floor standing speakers like the Triton 1s (which my friend owns) and Mythos ST-Ls (which I own) will not sound as good as a system comprising of good bookshelf speakers (for the sake of argument, let's say each bookshelf costs around $1,000 - assuming that the Triton 1s sub is around $1,500 which is probably on the higher side) and a dedicated sub. The GE Triton 1 is a great speaker for those with limited space, but anyone with room to spare for a dedicated sub or two (from brands like Seaton, Funk, JTR, RA and yes, even SVS and HSU), will be much better served by getting a good set of bookshelf speakers and one or two proper subs.

BTW, I never mentioned Aon 2 - I had just said that get a good pair of speakers (from the money saved by not buying a full range tower).

Finally, I do love Sandy and what he has done for the audio industry - Polk, Def Tech and now GE. He makes great products. However, I am trying to state facts - not validate my purchases. And please don't take this as an attack on you. Just stating my thoughts. We can agree to disagree!



Cheers,
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Old 01-21-2016, 10:55 AM
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I don't want to get into an argument. I think we've both picked out specific snippets and over focused on them. Its hard to integrate a sub. Harder than people make it sound. Hard to do it RIGHT at least. And people have different requirements and expectations. I'm not a wires or tweaks believer but I also don't think that just because two systems measure relatively flat (as good as you can get when you include a room in the equation) will sound equally good.

In my room, my Triton Ones are almost flat to 20hz. I've measured with a calibrated mic and REW. In fact, there's actually a big spike around 25Hz I need to deal with. They're far from rolled off below 35Hz. I'm not trying to justify my purchase (in fact I intend to add a subwoofer still, but I won't use it for music) but I stand by my statement and reword it to say, I don't agree if you're arguing that a bookshelf crossed over at 60hz to a subwoofer will easily sound as good as a full range speaker. If you're saying you could get both to be relatively flat from 30-500Hz you're right. That doesn't mean they'll sound equally good.
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Old 01-21-2016, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Shniks View Post
I have to agree with you on this. I had auditioned the Triton 1s and Mythos ST-Ls (Def Tech) and settled for the Mythos based on my preference. I initially thought that either one of these two models would give great bass for movies - and the Mythos does give awesome bass. However listening to my friend's modest home theater system with two RA subs, threw my thinking out of the window. Separate subs can go way lower than these models at high SPL levels - the difference has to be heard to be understood. Movies like Mad Max FR, Gravity etc. come to life with separate subs. I then tried to find data on actual measured FR for the Triton 1s and my Mythos ST-Ls - You can see the FR for the ST-L here and for the Triton 1 here. As can be seen the FR starts to tank below 30 Hz, not anywhere close to the published specs (not to mention that the bass in some movies goes way lower - Cloverfield has bass that goes way below 20 Hz).

I decided to get a JTR Captivator 1400 sub for myself and the difference is unbelievable. Movies have come to life and my ST-Ls sound awesome now (since I have set the crossover to around 60 Hz and let the Cap handle the bass). My friend who has the Triton 1s went for the Seaton subs and his Triton 1s sound amazing too. I do use the ST-Ls full range for music (as there is very little content below 35 Hz or so). I could honestly leave my crossover at 80 Hz or so, given that bass can't be localized at or below that frequency, but find the sound a little more refined at 60 Hz.

Bottom-line is that if I could do it again (or if I had to advise other people), I would not bother with full range speakers (with built in bass modules) as they just can't compete with a proper sub-woofer. Moreover as mentioned in the post I referenced, the placement of the sub to get best imaging, might differ drastically from where these floor standing speakers would be positioned. Best to get great bookshelf speakers (GE or another brand) and add one or two good sub-woofers - that system will beat the pants off any full range speaker system.


Cheers,
I have Triton Ones and one SB-13 Plus. I listened to them in exact same conditions - room, equipment, place in the room, content etc. and on the same day. SB-13 Plus compared to one Triton One speaker's LFE input is less powerful and more prone to distortion/artefacts (caused by room) beyond any doubt. I planned to use SB-13 with Tritons and possibly add one more SB-13, but after trying it I just moved it to a living room to replace a weaker sub there and use Tritons without subs. I did not do any measurements, but none were necessary to see the difference. So take it for what it's worth, but same room, same equipment, same day comparison left me with no doubt
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Old 01-21-2016, 02:49 PM
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I don't want to get into an argument. I think we've both picked out specific snippets and over focused on them. Its hard to integrate a sub. Harder than people make it sound. Hard to do it RIGHT at least. And people have different requirements and expectations. I'm not a wires or tweaks believer but I also don't think that just because two systems measure relatively flat (as good as you can get when you include a room in the equation) will sound equally good.

In my room, my Triton Ones are almost flat to 20hz. I've measured with a calibrated mic and REW. In fact, there's actually a big spike around 25Hz I need to deal with. They're far from rolled off below 35Hz. I'm not trying to justify my purchase (in fact I intend to add a subwoofer still, but I won't use it for music) but I stand by my statement and reword it to say, I don't agree if you're arguing that a bookshelf crossed over at 60hz to a subwoofer will easily sound as good as a full range speaker. If you're saying you could get both to be relatively flat from 30-500Hz you're right. That doesn't mean they'll sound equally good.
I will agree that it isn't trivial to integrate a sub or especially SUBS.
But - if you aren't strictly an analog 2 channel snob, and embrace the digital domain, DSP and advances in room correction - especially in the lower bass frequency range (they do a great job in helping 0-200Hz or so) - then subs are fantastic.

All you have to do is look at the picture of the Triton 1's. The mid/high frequency section can be thought of as a compact standmount speaker in a dedicated enclosure.
The rest of the tower is dedicated to the lower frequencies.



So what you have is a compromised design where the "SUBS" are placed in the same position as the mid/high which is not necessarily the best for sound quality over the entire frequency range.
The argument is that IF properly integrated - TWO dedicate subs with a GOOD standmount will outperform your full range towers in ANY measure of sound quality - imaging, distortion, phase coherence etc. Movies, music, whatever. It's SOUND reproduction.
Look at the trouble used to integrate the bass section of the Triton series with the mid/high section.
I'm not saying it's trivial, but employing a proper dedicated low frequency driver that can move some air (pressurise the space) is key. If you want to talk proper audiophile imaging/phase coherence, etc. - you may want to look at single full range drivers that don't employ ANY passive crossover elements at all. The Triton 1's have DSP, multiple radiators facing all different directions, passive crossovers. Good luck having perfect imaging at the PLP. Do they work? Sure they do. We all don't live in ideal acoustic spaces with treatments and dedication to all things audio. Enter room correction - but even that you can screw up during the measurement process.

I have recently purchased ANOTHER SB-2000 SVS sub for my home office system - bringing my ownership to 3 of these now. The new sub will replace my little DT Supercube II sub I've had for many years and provided great service - little 8" active + 2 8" passive radiators - great little sub for the WAF, but in room response vs. the SVS SB-2000? No contest. Despite the supercube having a 1250 watt amp and frequency response rated to 14Hz - there is NOTHING in room below about 27hz. The -3dB point as measured with REW, and the Anthem ARC microphone show usable bass to about 29Hz.
Now, that is the frequency response - it speaks nothing about the sound, distorion, impulse response etc.
I've had the little supercube ii apart - I think it's a little genius sub - but REW measurements showed the SVS SB-2000 providing usable bass below 20Hz and as a better measure THD is 8x less. So you have QUANTITY and QUALITY. Take a look at the Seaton measurements for response, SPL and distortion.
Then we have FUNK, and others that are making their own drivers, and embracing fully active designs with full DSP. If I could fit a FUNK audio sub - I would definitely get one (As our Canadian Dollar is TANKING compared to the USD).

To suggest that subs are only for HT use is ridiculous.
I have plenty of electronic music that I enjoy that has TONS of content below 30Hz. Even some live acoustic recordings have energy where a sub provides impact that just isn't there with "full range speakers". Not to mention that if you can alleviate the mains from attempting to produce low frequency sound - it really opens up the midrange. Is this easy? No adding another crossover into a speaker is always a concern - but that's why we have DSP and filtering, and advanced crossovers and room correction and, and, and..Manipulate the bits in a digital domain - have our way with them - then return them gently into the analogue realm for our ears to appreciate.

Two or more subs positioned in a room and properly phased to blend with the mains will provide better extension and quality than full range speakers. We are talking about real live rooms with significant energy in the primary reflections, and STUFF in it.

But with the audiophile world - there will never be 100% agreement.
So it being a hobby - it's whatever you enjoy.

The only really 100% controlled environment for 2 channel listening is by putting on a set of headphones while in an anechoic chamber - enjoy that!

I'm sitting in the camp - if I can't, nor anyone else can prove claims with actual meaningful measurements, then their claims are meaningless.

Mr. Scott Wilkinson had a great interview with Mastering Engineer Bob Katz - who has STAND MOUNT Revel Speakers with 2 x JL Audio subs that are CORNER LOADED (Oh not - not corner loaded!)
Bob Katz on Audio

Yay for technology!

GE has designed products that offer tremendous value.
I'm a fan. Triton 7's and Supercentre XL up front - augmented by 2 SVS SB-2000's (one front, one side rear),
augmented by some ceiling mounted surrounds. Corrected with Anthem ARC.
Measures good at the PLP. Sounds good to me - which at the end of day is all that really matters.
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Old 01-21-2016, 03:09 PM
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Logistics aside then wouldn't the "ideal" 7.2.4 GE setup be 11 Aon 3 speakers and 2 Supersub XXL subs?

Put the LR Aons on stands. Put the C Aon on lower stand under the display angled up a bit. Wall mount the SB and SR sets. Then rig something up to ceiling mount the other 4 while having them facing down and angled to the MLP. Place the 2 subs where appropriate.

Your entire sound field is identical for HT and you can cross every speaker over at 80 Hz.

It's also $750 cheaper than the well regarded setup of Triton 1, XXL center, 7000s, and MPXs.

Sitting on top of a 24" tall credenza holding your gear the top of on Aon 3 would be 38" off the floor. Should be reasonable enough for the bottom of a display to clear or set just under.

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Old 01-22-2016, 02:57 PM
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At first I bought a laser pointer with angles to measure with Dolby's recommendations. But while measuring, it just didn't make sense in my room bc they would have been pretty far forward and back. I just took a shot in the dark and placed them evenly around my listing area and adjusted for the 7000's angles.

I wanted them about 5" more forward/back but I had a stud in one location and I would have liked them a little wider but my room wouldn't let me

Like Sandy suggested, around 2-4 feet in front, behind, and on the sides.

I'm not sure on the Invisa 650's. Maybe a little closer (but not by much) and Sandy would know better than me as I have not tried the 650's.


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Did you ever measure the speaker angles? Or did you just eyeball it like I did. And did the built in angle affect your placement? i.e., would you have spaced them the same if they were normal down firing like the Invisal 650s?

Mine are 10 feet from front to back and 14 feet from left to right.

They are fine sounding speakers like you said, I just don't feel like I'm getting the full Atmos effect.



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Old 01-23-2016, 07:39 AM
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I have a similar question as to what's being discussed, but in reference to two rows of seating. I was thinking of doing HTR7000s in the front and then instead of 7000s doing two 650s in the back. My thought process is I don't want the back speakers angled so the back row would get some overhead affect(used sparsely compared to front row). I am guessing if I went with this, 2-3 in front of the front row and then just dolby spec in the back?
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Old 01-23-2016, 08:56 AM
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Logistics aside then wouldn't the "ideal" 7.2.4 GE setup be 11 Aon 3 speakers and 2 Supersub XXL subs?

Put the LR Aons on stands. Put the C Aon on lower stand under the display angled up a bit. Wall mount the SB and SR sets. Then rig something up to ceiling mount the other 4 while having them facing down and angled to the MLP. Place the 2 subs where appropriate.

Your entire sound field is identical for HT and you can cross every speaker over at 80 Hz.

It's also $750 cheaper than the well regarded setup of Triton 1, XXL center, 7000s, and MPXs.

Sitting on top of a 24" tall credenza holding your gear the top of on Aon 3 would be 38" off the floor. Should be reasonable enough for the bottom of a display to clear or set just under.
That would depend on room size, speaker placement and dispersion pattern (more so for the ATMOS ceiling mount) of the AON 3. But in theory it could be a solution.

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Old 01-24-2016, 09:18 AM
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Is anyone here compared triton one agains anthony gallo ref 3.5?
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