official danley sound labs thread - Page 11 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #301 of 323 Old 05-15-2015, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decadent_Spectre View Post
I had foam lying around, I cut them into appropriate sizes.

I'm not sure what you mean by transition their response to the horn.
I was wondering this too. If you plug the ports in the waveguide, how does sound from the woofers get out of the box?
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post #302 of 323 Old 05-15-2015, 10:53 AM
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IIRC the woofers cross at around 300Hz in the SH50s, a wavelength at 300Hz is about 3 feet 9 inches so perhaps that is why it does not pose a problem, but Ivan would be the right person to answer this.
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post #303 of 323 Old 05-15-2015, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decadent_Spectre View Post
IIRC the woofers cross at around 300Hz in the SH50s, a wavelength at 300Hz is about 3 feet 9 inches so perhaps that is why it does not pose a problem, but Ivan would be the right person to answer this.
I don't see how wavelength matters. If there is no air pathway between the woofers and the air outside the box, then the only thing you should hear from the woofers is what gets thru in the form of mechanical vibrations.
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post #304 of 323 Old 05-15-2015, 12:07 PM
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The response at LP is posted, clearly sound is getting through. As posted before when I get a chance I would like to measure it nearfield with and without plugs.

The wavelength of course matters, there is a reason why low frequency is so hard to contain, as the wavelength gets longer it is more difficult to "stop".

If sound is reaching the LP then the wave is traveling through the air, as for mechanical vibrations, a woofer is mechanical? I'm not sure I understood.
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post #305 of 323 Old 05-15-2015, 12:42 PM
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I have SM60Fs, so I'm not familiar with SH50s, but the principle should be same. The SH50s must have ports somewhere other than in the waveguide. Are you plugging all the ports in the waveguide? I've never heard of a speaker where its woofer is totally sealed inside of the box unless it has a passive radiator or is isobarically coupled thru an identical driver.
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post #306 of 323 Old 05-15-2015, 01:01 PM
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The SH50s do not have any other ports except in the horn.

The horn has ports for both the mid range drivers and the woofers, I only plug the woofers ports. Have never plugged the mid ports but I'm fairly certain that plugging those ports would cause response issues over the bandwidth of the mid range.

Measuring the distance from the starting of the woofer port to the edge of the horn mouth is about 16", the published response from Danley would suggest that the woofers are only horn loaded above 200Hz or so, the 1/4th wavelength for 200Hz is about 17".

If you meant to ask how the sound is coming into the horn through the foam, I think it is related to the wavelength in that the foam does not fully "stop" the wave. If by mechanical vibrations you mean that the sound is being transmitted into the horn by the vibrating foam due to air pressure on the woofer side then that is likely the case, as evidenced by high SPL causing sufficient air pressure to dislodge the foam from the ports. One may argue the foam is a passive radiator I suppose. How much air may or may not pass through the foam I used, I can't say but blowing into it does not produce any air velocity on the other side, the foam is however spongy and will soak water.

Again I'm no expert, I do hope Ivan will help clarify.

Last edited by Decadent_Spectre; 05-15-2015 at 01:05 PM.
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post #307 of 323 Old 05-15-2015, 01:10 PM
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Tried blowing into the foam again, making a funnel with one hand and then strongly blowing into it produces very slight air velocity on the other side.
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post #308 of 323 Old 05-15-2015, 01:11 PM
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Yeah, I hope he chimes in too. Sounds like I might learn something.
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post #309 of 323 Old 05-15-2015, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decadent_Spectre View Post
Tried blowing into the foam again, making a funnel with one hand and then strongly blowing into it produces very slight air velocity on the other side.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darrellh44 View Post
Yeah, I hope he chimes in too. Sounds like I might learn something.
I already learned something: Definitely - under no circumstances - allow one of my friends to catch me blowing a 2" wide black cylindrical piece of foam....

I'd never see the end of that ribbing!
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post #310 of 323 Old 05-15-2015, 09:09 PM
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I already learned something: Definitely - under no circumstances - allow one of my friends to catch me blowing a 2" wide black cylindrical piece of foam....

I'd never see the end of that ribbing!
hmm, I think you just killed the thread...
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post #311 of 323 Old 05-15-2015, 09:36 PM
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hmm, I think you just killed the thread...
I'm pretty sure it's just sleeping...
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post #312 of 323 Old 05-16-2015, 02:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
I already learned something: Definitely - under no circumstances - allow one of my friends to catch me blowing a 2" wide black cylindrical piece of foam....

I'd never see the end of that ribbing!
People are too concerned about what others think, life is too short to worry about the opinions of others, particularly on the internet.

"Sticks and stones..."

In case your interested the foam pieces I cut out for the ports are about 3" wide and it is pinkish-orange in color.
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post #313 of 323 Old 05-16-2015, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Decadent_Spectre View Post
People are too concerned about what others think, life is too short to worry about the opinions of others, particularly on the internet.

"Sticks and stones..."

In case your interested the foam pieces I cut out for the ports are about 3" wide and it is pinkish-orange in color.
I was just kidding. That is the purpose of those big grins, to impart one is not serious.
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post #314 of 323 Old 05-16-2015, 06:02 AM
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I'm sure you were, no offense was taken. It was a general comment.

Communication can be more easily misconstrued online and IMO thick skin is a prerequisite to converse comfortably online.
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post #315 of 323 Old 05-16-2015, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrellh44 View Post
I have SM60Fs, so I'm not familiar with SH50s, but the principle should be same. The SH50s must have ports somewhere other than in the waveguide. .
Let's see if I can explain the various "holes" in the Synergy horn.

HF The HF exit hole is nothing special-a hole to let the sound out and enter the horn. On some models there is some "shaping" going to to ease the transistion of a round hole to a rectangular horn.

MF/LF. These are confusing to many people. What they REALLY are (besides places to "let the sound come out), are acoustic low pass filters. In a way they act like the muffler on your car. They let the air out-but muffle the exhaust noises.

The particular holes vary in size-thickness-back volume etc for the particular driver they are being used with.

They are NOT simple "holes in the wood".

What they do is allow the sound below a certain point to come through the hole just fine-but freq above that are physically attenuated.

For example: Let's say you put a 200Hz tone into ANY loudspeaker driver. You will get 200Hz, 400Hz 600Hz 800Hz etc.

The louder you push the driver the higher the harmonics will be in relation to the fundamental (200hz). This is HARMONIC DISTORTION. Artifacts that are harmonics of the original tone.

So by having an physical low pass filter (the size shape of the holes) the higher harmonics are reduced in level. This results in less distortion of the signal and a cleaner sound.

And before anybody asks-"how do the low freq come out of those small holes?" ask yourself this "How do the low freq come out of the MUCH SMALLER holes in your ear buds?"

The hole size is large enough to allow the air to pass without reduction and small enough to attenuate the sound above a certain freq. That is why the midrange holes are smaller than the woofer holes. There is less overall air moved in the midrange and the upper cutoff freq is higher than for the woofers.

"Ports": In some of the synergy horns there are additional holes in the horn. These vary between 2 camps.

In the SM products, they are simple ports. Nothing special there.

However in the SH products they use part of the Tapped Horn principal to get additional gain in the lower freq.

Those holes have a physical path length to the back of the woofers. They do not "share the same space" as the back volume for the woofers.

Since the sound off of the back of the woofer is out of polarity with the sound from the front-if they added easily, the low freq would be attenuated (like in a open baffle design). The whole purpose of the cabinet is to keep the sound of the back of the speaker from getting to the front and cancelling.

But with a path length, we can "delay" it so the phase of the rear sound is back in phase with front of the woofer-at some freq.

Again the size and shape of the holes determines at what freq this is happening.

While you can pretty much put a port anywhere in a cabinet and get the same results, you CANNOT do this with the "exit holes" in the Synergy horn.

If you close off the ports in either the SM or SH cabinets, then basically all of the internal air becomes part of the back volume-no matter whether or not it is in the "delay path" of the Sh cabinets. Since it is not "going anywhere", the piece of wood that make up the "path" basically become braces in the cabinet (which they are anyway) but the path length is not enough to be concerned with.

Hopefully that helps with some understanding of that part of the Synergy horn.

There are many aspects that make up the Synergy horn, not just one or two things. It is the SUM OF THE PARTS that make it what it is.
HTsHT likes this.

Danley Sound Labs

Physics-not fads
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post #316 of 323 Old 05-16-2015, 10:49 AM
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Thanks for the detailed explanation Ivan.

I'm loving my SM60Fs, btw, but I'm looking forward to learning more about the Studio 60s as things develop.

Thanks,
Darrell

Last edited by darrellh44; 05-16-2015 at 02:53 PM. Reason: reword
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post #317 of 323 Unread 05-21-2015, 02:38 PM
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I just stumbled upon this thread and am pretty encouraged and excited about the Danley products...I'm looking for HT application here, primarily.

Will watch this thread ...closely!
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post #318 of 323 Unread 05-22-2015, 07:07 AM
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I just stumbled upon this thread and am pretty encouraged and excited about the Danley products...I'm looking for HT application here, primarily.

Will watch this thread ...closely!
Well I do think there is a REALLY nice pair of danley sm60f's for sale in the classifieds right now You could go ahead and whet your whistle so to speak

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post #319 of 323 Unread 05-22-2015, 10:46 AM
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I just stumbled upon this thread and am pretty encouraged and excited about the Danley products...I'm looking for HT application here, primarily.

Will watch this thread ...closely!
I just got my pair of SM60Fs 3-4 weeks ago for my HT. They're everything I hoped for and then some. I'm not using them with a sub for now, but the quality and strength of the bass by themselves is amazing.
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post #320 of 323 Unread Today, 11:36 AM
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Well I do think there is a REALLY nice pair of danley sm60f's for sale in the classifieds right now You could go ahead and whet your whistle so to speak
Are they up for sale again?
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post #321 of 323 Unread Today, 12:44 PM
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Are they up for sale again?
Haha, yep

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post #322 of 323 Unread Today, 04:48 PM
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Haha, yep
We should have all signed them LOL
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post #323 of 323 Unread Today, 07:06 PM
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We should have all signed them LOL
It would've been nice/funny to at least have a signed sheet to keep along with the speakers lol.
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