Paradigm Mini Monitor or Energy RC10 as bookshelfs best for an Apartment? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 38 Old 01-29-2010, 02:25 PM - Thread Starter
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I have been wanted to upgrade my speakers that I have now (Energy Take 5's) to bookshelf's for a "bigger" sound.

I need to choose between the mini monitors or the RC10s due to my budget limit and since they are highly recommended bookshelf's.

Anyone had experience with both, if so which one would you recommend for a living room measuring 12x12x10?

Any other input is greatly appreciated.
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post #2 of 38 Old 01-29-2010, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kartoon2005 View Post

I have been wanted to upgrade my speakers that I have now (Energy Take 5's) to bookshelf's for a "bigger" sound.

I need to choose between the mini monitors or the RC10s due to my budget limit and since they are highly recommended bookshelf's.

Anyone had experience with both, if so which one would you recommend for a living room measuring 12x12x10?

Any other input is greatly appreciated.

paradigm's are a no brainer
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post #3 of 38 Old 01-29-2010, 02:48 PM
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The mini monitors are a bit more expensive aren't they? Price wise, I thought the RC-10 was more comparable to the atoms.
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post #4 of 38 Old 01-29-2010, 02:54 PM
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RC-10s are way better than atoms. The RC-10 is a $600 speaker, just happens to be nicely discounted right now.
http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/energy_rc10.htm

Its better than both of those Paradigms.

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post #5 of 38 Old 01-29-2010, 03:00 PM
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Those are both excellent speakers and it will come down to a matter of taste. The 'digms do have a better matching center.

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post #6 of 38 Old 01-29-2010, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osofast240sx View Post

paradigm's are a no brainer

except that the RC-10's are better

really they are both good of course, but the Paradigms are their entry-level line whereas the RC line is the step up for Energy, more comparable in build quality and tech to the Paradigm Studio line. Looking at the $300 sale price is not a fair assessment, they are really much closer to the Studio 10 than any of the Monitor lineup.

I have heard Paradigm Monitors and there is no comparison in the tweeter, the RC tweeter is much smoother and more refined, the entry-level 'digm tweeter is much too harsh for my tastes.

the best bet is to listen to both and decide for yourself!

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post #7 of 38 Old 01-29-2010, 05:45 PM
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As far as harshness you might be hearing, it's most part of Paradigm's signature sound where the midrange & highs stay fairly linear off-axis. You will hear this sound from the lowest priced to the highest priced offering Paradigm delivers.




The RC-10s have a more traditional treble roll-off.

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post #8 of 38 Old 01-29-2010, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osofast240sx View Post

paradigm's are a no brainer

LOL yeah right, what horrible advice.

if you like bright/forward, go w/ the paradigms. if you like smooth/warm, go w/ the rc10's.
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post #9 of 38 Old 01-29-2010, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kartoon2005 View Post

I have been wanted to upgrade my speakers that I have now (Energy Take 5's) to bookshelf's for a "bigger" sound.

Any other input is greatly appreciated.

When you say you want to upgrade to get a "bigger" sound, does that mean that you aren't happy with the quality of the sound that you're getting from your current speakers or do you just want more?

I'd say if you like the Energy sound, go with the RC10s. $300 for a $600 speaker is a pretty good deal on the RC10s. OTOH, if you are not satisfied with the sound quality, go with the Paradigms. I (along with osofast240 & many others) like Paradigm's sound, but that doesn't mean it's for everyone. I know it's very common to end a post with this, but you really should listen to them if you can.

There's nothing to see here.

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post #10 of 38 Old 01-30-2010, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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I like the take 5 sound. I was hoping someone would have listened to both models because I cannot auction them both. If I go with the digms I might discover something I would like better but the rc10s are currently going for $279 shipped via vanns.com that's pretty hard to pass up for a $600 set. I think I'm going to go with the rc-10's for $279 shipped if they are about the same quality. Although I would like to hear how the digms would sound ..... Decisions.


Ffff

I think I'm going to go with the rc10
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post #11 of 38 Old 01-30-2010, 09:45 AM
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If you're getting the RC-10s to replace the L/R speakers from the take 5 set, you might want to look into getting a matching center as well

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post #12 of 38 Old 01-30-2010, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Yea I am definatly getting different center. A cc-min or if I would go the paradigm route I would get the cc-190. I need something less than 7" in height for a center so those would be good.
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post #13 of 38 Old 01-30-2010, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osofast240sx View Post

paradigm's are a no brainer

You need to stop saying this every time someone brings up Paradigm. Unless "no brainer" means something different in your case.

These are both very good speakers. Hardly a "no brainer".
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post #14 of 38 Old 01-30-2010, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzy_ View Post

You need to stop saying this every time someone brings up Paradigm. Unless "no brainer" means something different in your case.

These are both very good speakers. Hardly a "no brainer".

I did not know my post were being watched, nice to be loved. just going by my personal experience
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post #15 of 38 Old 01-30-2010, 10:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Is it ok if I place the RC-10's on top of this tempered glass stand?



I ask becuase I just read this.........

"The RC-10s are minimonitors, not bookshelf speakers. You will not get the best that these speakers have to offer if you place them on a shelf or up against the wall."

via - http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/energy_rc10.htm

Does that mean the paradigms would not sound best on the top of the glass shelf?

I have really have no choice but to put a pair of speakers on that shelf........

What kind of speakers would work best in my case? I need a bigger sound.
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post #16 of 38 Old 01-31-2010, 01:29 AM
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They will work fine there unless the glass vibrates somehow.
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post #17 of 38 Old 01-31-2010, 08:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok thank you for your input. I could put little rubber feet to reduce any vibrations if any.
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post #18 of 38 Old 01-31-2010, 02:09 PM
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Oddly even though the Paradigm's are called "mini monitors" they are quite a bit bigger than the energy RC-10s.

Also why can't you use speaker stands? You could even find some pedal stands/lamp stands.
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post #19 of 38 Old 01-31-2010, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astrallite View Post

Oddly even though the Paradigm's are called "mini monitors" they are quite a bit bigger than the energy RC-10s.

Also why can't you use speaker stands? You could even find some pedal stands/lamp stands.

Unfortunately I do not have any room for any stands. If I did then I would have gotten some towers.
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post #20 of 38 Old 01-31-2010, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kartoon2005 View Post

Is it ok if I place the RC-10's on top of this tempered glass stand?



I ask becuase I just read this.........

"The RC-10s are minimonitors, not bookshelf speakers. You will not get the best that these speakers have to offer if you place them on a shelf or up against the wall."

via - http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/energy_rc10.htm

Does that mean the paradigms would not sound best on the top of the glass shelf?

I have really have no choice but to put a pair of speakers on that shelf........

What kind of speakers would work best in my case? I need a bigger sound.

The only other problem you might have is not enough separation. 6-8 feet is optimal. looks like maybe 4-5 feet at best in your pic.

Sounds good!
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post #21 of 38 Old 01-31-2010, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes you are right. It is only 5 feet apart.

I guess I will have to live with it. Space is very minimal unless I sell the stand, get a smaller one and with that space left get floorstanding speakers instead.



Would that work best?
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post #22 of 38 Old 02-01-2010, 04:54 AM
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I'd go that route. Wall-mount the tv with a narrow electronics stand.
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post #23 of 38 Old 02-01-2010, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MStrickland1988 View Post

I'd go that route. Wall-mount the tv with a narrow electronics stand.

+1. And if I were you, I would go out and listen to as many speakers as you can. We can recommend until we are blue in the face but, it is you that has to like them. If you have a price range, we can at least point you in the right direction.

Sounds good!
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post #24 of 38 Old 02-01-2010, 09:19 AM
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I'm not sure why narrowly spaced floorstanders would be better than narrowly spaced bookshelf speakers. Getting a slimmer stand and wall-mounting the TV isn't going to cure the problem of the front L/R speakers being narrowly placed!! Would the end result, after all that money spent, really be that much better than a nice pair of bookshelf speakers sitting on the stand? It's not like he would be gaining any additional physical separation

Do you really not have a spare 6 inches on either side that you could squeeze in a bookshelf speaker stand? That a/v console in the photo has room underneath the base plate and top plate of the speaker stand could fit under, you don't need that much room for stands with the way that console is shaped. As long as the top plate is a little higher than the a/v stand, it can kind of "interlock" and then you could pick up another foot of separation for the front two speakers.

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post #25 of 38 Old 02-01-2010, 08:32 PM - Thread Starter
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hey batpig, honestly I do not have any more space.

The stand is placed between 2 doors. Any more spread out the speakers would be blocking the doors.

ahhhh I hate placement issues.

subwoofers and speakers.
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post #26 of 38 Old 02-02-2010, 05:48 AM
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Given the space, placement constraints.... Maybe you would benefit more from something like this:
http://www.atlantictechnology.com/de...asp?NodeId=116
or
http://www.atlantictechnology.com/default.asp?NodeId=57

Aperion is coming out with a soundbar solution in the near future as well.
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post #27 of 38 Old 02-02-2010, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osofast240sx View Post

I did not know my post were being watched, nice to be loved. just going by my personal experience

Whenever someone gives especially bad, uninformed advice it somehow jumps out at me. Especially when they give the same bad, uninformed advice over and over.
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post #28 of 38 Old 02-02-2010, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaiii View Post

Given the space, placement constraints.... Maybe you would benefit more from something like this:
http://www.atlantictechnology.com/de...asp?NodeId=116
or
http://www.atlantictechnology.com/de...asp?NodeId=151

Aperion is coming out with a soundbar solution in the near future as well.

I'm surprised you'd suggest a soundbar. Obviously I haven't heard any of those, but I'd really have to wonder if they'd be enough of an upgrade on the Take 5s, given the size and placement.

kartoon, I think you should get the speakers and give them a try out one pair on the TV stand. (Do some measuring first, and maybe find some boxes and try it out a little - just to make sure they can fit.) As much as I go on about placement all the time, decent speakers there should still be a fuller sound than you're getting as well as (probably) better tone. I really notice the lack of the lower mid-bass in tiny satellites. I'd bet the odds are very much in favor of you finding it to be a big upgrade, for the front 3 anyway.

The worst placement problems IMO come from side wall and floor reflections, which can really muddy the sound. You don't have that - you're only going to get some bass reinforcement from the back wall, and that's not a big problem.

If you can manage to put the speakers at the front corners, it will help a little to reduce the effects of being so close to the TV and stand. And definitely put something to isolate them from that stand - some kind of rubber pad or feet. Depending on the height of the stand and the speakers you may also want something to raise them up some.
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post #29 of 38 Old 02-02-2010, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzy_ View Post

I'm surprised you'd suggest that. Obviously I haven't heard any of those, but I'd really have to wonder if they'd be an upgrade on the Take 5s, given the size and placement.

Well... I only mentioned it because it's clear the OP is very limited in his placement options, so it's an alternative to having 2 bookshelf speakers jammed next to each other on a glass tv stand.

I have no idea if one of those options would actually be an improvement over the Takes or not.

My honest recommendation would be to find a way to make it work with good monitors on stands... but the OP has already insisted this is not an option.

And as you mentioned, placing the speakers at the very front corners of the TV stand, on top of something (rubber feet, acoustic foam, ect) to isolate them is also an option, and while still a BIG compromise... it may still be a better option than a soundbar or connected LCR.
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post #30 of 38 Old 02-02-2010, 11:59 AM
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Part of it for me is just a bias against soundbars, partly because they have the same compromises that most "flat panel" speakers do, and partly because they're usually really expensive given the soundquality.

Anyway, kartoon take another look at this quote:
Quote:


The RC-10s are minimonitors, not bookshelf speakers. You will not get the best that these speakers have to offer if you place them on a shelf or up against the wall. I initially made the mistake of placing them too close to the wall, assuming that they would need boundary reinforcement. What I got, in my 14' x 13' x 7' listening room, was too much bass. Energy does provide foam plugs for the rear-firing ports, should it be necessary to place the speakers near a boundary, but you are better off pulling the speakers out into the room. I ended up with them four feet from the front wall and about six and a half feet apart, angled inward to cross just behind my head.

I think his comment about placing them on a shelf or near a wall is something that could be said about most speakers. But two points:

- the effects are not as huge as you might be thinking, from that. yes, you may lose some air and some soundstage with your placement. but it won't be a disaster.

- some of the biggest effects - like boomy bass, if it happens - can be managed down or away. he mentions port plugs.

He's trying to get the absolute best sound, the usual audiophile tweaking for the last increment of performance. But even at something less than their absolute best, these speakers will still sound very good.
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