Are Cerwin Vega speakers any good??? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 34 Old 02-23-2010, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Was just looking online at Cerwin Vega speakers. Are they any good? Does anyone out there have newer CV speakers? My uncle has 4 small floor standing CV speakers from back in the day and they sound pretty good.

Shawn
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post #2 of 34 Old 02-23-2010, 11:38 AM
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They're generally regarded as speakers that play LOUD but are not very refined (ie good party speakers). However, there was a rave review of the CLS-215 at Soundstage:


http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/c...ega_cls215.htm

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post #3 of 34 Old 02-23-2010, 11:44 AM
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I have an older "E" series set. I'm happy with them. 2 15" mains, a center & 2 surrounds.
I come from a pro sound environment & for home use I'm used to loud.
Music & movies sound GREAT to me.
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post #4 of 34 Old 02-23-2010, 12:20 PM
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I have been using some RE20's (8" two-ways) for what seems like forever, and they have suited me just fine, but on Thursday I'm moving on. It will be a sad (but happy) day.


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post #5 of 34 Old 02-23-2010, 12:23 PM
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A friend of mine run's full size CVs front, center, and rear in his home cinema. Very good performance considering the money invested. Note the models he uses are 5-8 year old (E series I believe - same as poster above me), no idea what the new range is like.

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post #6 of 34 Old 02-23-2010, 02:42 PM
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I used Cerwin AT-10s as my main front speakers for almost 15 years. Bought them when their main purpose was to shake the house with Metallica and Led Zeppelin. They are tanks. As others have said they are not as "refined" as some other brands but they can certainly handle punishing volumes.

They were a happy part of my HT configuration until a few weeks ago, when I bought some new gear and sold them to a lucky friend. At least I can still go over there to visit
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post #7 of 34 Old 02-23-2010, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

Was just looking online at Cerwin Vega speakers. Are they any good? Does anyone out there have newer CV speakers? My uncle has 4 small floor standing CV speakers from back in the day and they sound pretty good.

I have a pair of CLS-215's for stereo music listening. I really like them. They do need to be set up properly to get them to sound there best. I also have a 7.1 theater that has CLS-6 mains and center, four CLS15s subs and VE-5M's for surrounds. It sounds good. I also have a 2.1 system in my second bedroom that has a pair of CV V-5M's and a CLS15s sub. It's sounds pretty impressive being in a 12x12 bedroom.
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post #8 of 34 Old 02-23-2010, 04:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

Was just looking online at Cerwin Vega speakers. Are they any good? Does anyone out there have newer CV speakers? My uncle has 4 small floor standing CV speakers from back in the day and they sound pretty good.

It depends on what Vegas you are looking at. Most people unfairly judge them by constanly comparing 15+ year old models to many of today's current offerings from today's manufacturers. The other common notion of these speakers come from generic "when I was in college back in the 70's" views of these speakers when they catered towards college dorms and frat houses. But like most of America Cerwin Vega has grown up over time. Most of their new model speakers still excel in the mid bass dept. however they have really cleaned up the mids and highs of their current speaker lines.

But somehow the latter of what I said always gets lost in translation and people merely judge based on what was rather than having an open mind to what IS available from this company in today's marketplace. If you're a guy with a bottomless budget then don't look for miracles from a company who is not meant for your target market. However if you are someone on a budget of 1 grand and below for speakers Cerwin Vega has some very good offerings that offer a lot of value for the dollar at this time.
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post #9 of 34 Old 02-23-2010, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by diamonddelts View Post

It depends on what Vegas you are looking at. Most people unfairly judge them by constanly comparing 15+ year old models to many of today's current offerings from today's manufacturers. The other common notion of these speakers come from generic "when I was in college back in the 70's" views of these speakers when they catered towards college dorms and frat houses. But like most of America Cerwin Vega has grown up over time. Most of their new model speakers still excel in the mid bass dept. however they have really cleaned up the mids and highs of their current speaker lines.

But somehow the latter of what I said always gets lost in translation and people merely judge based on what was rather than having an open mind to what IS available from this company in today's marketplace. If you're a guy with a bottomless budget then don't look for miracles from a company who is not meant for your target market. However if you are someone on a budget of 1 grand and below for speakers Cerwin Vega has some very good offerings that offer a lot of value for the dollar at this time.

I agree 100%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
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post #10 of 34 Old 02-23-2010, 04:54 PM
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I also agree. Another way to frame this discussion is to recognize that CV is known for choosing efficiency over accuracy. IMO, this was more defensible when watts were more expensive than they are today, but it still a reasonable design priority. If you look at SoundStage's measurements of the CLS-215, I think you'll find a very efficient speaker with some not so unpleasant colorations.
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post #11 of 34 Old 02-23-2010, 06:40 PM
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I would much rather populate my theater with Cerwin Vegas than some little, froo-froo, 85 dB sensitivity weak sauce *audiophile* bookshelf speakers that couldn't reproduce the sound of a mouse fart at a realistic volume level.

Not that I have an opinion.

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post #12 of 34 Old 02-23-2010, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

I would much rather populate my theater with Cerwin Vegas than some little, froo-froo, 85 dB sensitivity weak sauce *audiophile* bookshelf speakers that couldn't reproduce the sound of a mouse fart at a realistic volume level.

Not that I have an opinion.

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post #13 of 34 Old 02-23-2010, 09:54 PM
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Well I've owned Cerwin Vega for around 16 years. The last five years I noticed I had stopped listening to music through my loudspeakers all together but was constantly listening to music through my headphones as they had much better clarity and fine detail. Brought home a little set of B&W towers for an in home demo one day on a whim and was taken by surprise by what a little speaker from a higher end brand could do with clarity and detail and still play fairly loud.



The Vegas factory specs where a 3-way with large 15" woofers @ 102dB 1w/1m, 400watt RMS, and 28Hz to 28,000Hz +/- 3dB and the B&Ws where only a 2½-way with only 6.5 in woofers, a 90dB sensitivity rating, 150watt power handling, and 44Hz - 22kHz +/-3dB so I wasn't expecting much. But there was so comparison for the raw sound quality performance. I still remember the very first song I played had a bird chirping in the beginning and the B&Ws was just so much more clearer, detailed, and airy with a more 3D-like soundstage and got me closer to the fine detail and clarity I was hearing from headphones. They got me listening to music again through loudspeakers. Someone else in the B&W thread had the same experience as me with larger higher spec'd Vegas vs smaller lower spec'd B&Ws with how impressed they smoked the Vegas with sound quality. And they can still play loud enough to drown out your own voice...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emig5m View Post

Well I've owned Cerwin Vega for around 16 years. The last five years I noticed I had stopped listening to music through my loudspeakers all together but was constantly listening to music through my headphones as they had much better clarity and fine detail. Brought home a little set of B&W towers for an in home demo one day on a whim and was taken by surprise by what a little speaker from a higher end brand could do with clarity and detail and still play fairly loud.



The Vegas factory specs where a 3-way with large 15" woofers @ 102dB 1w/1m, 400watt RMS, and 28Hz to 28,000Hz +/- 3dB and the B&Ws where only a 2½-way with only 6.5 in woofers, a 90dB sensitivity rating, 150watt power handling, and 44Hz - 22kHz +/-3dB so I wasn't expecting much. But there was so comparison for the raw sound quality performance. I still remember the very first song I played had a bird chirping in the beginning and the B&Ws was just so much more clearer, detailed, and airy with a more 3D-like soundstage and got me closer to the fine detail and clarity I was hearing from headphones. They got me listening to music again through loudspeakers. Someone else in the B&W thread had the same experience as me with larger higher spec'd Vegas vs smaller lower spec'd B&Ws with how impressed they smoked the Vegas with sound quality. And they can still play loud enough to drown out your own voice...

Like I said before. It's always the same generic story of a guy comparing modern day high end speakers to 15-20 year old Cerwin Vega speakers. It's about as useful as comparing a new 47" Samsung LED tv to an 20 year old 61" RCA projection tv and declaring that though the Samsung is smaller it still smokes the RCA in overall quality. A high end offering with today's technological advances catered towards those with much bigger budgets beats a budget priced offering from 20 years ago. Brilliant.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emig5m View Post

Well I've owned Cerwin Vega for around 16 years. The last five years I noticed I had stopped listening to music through my loudspeakers all together but was constantly listening to music through my headphones as they had much better clarity and fine detail. Brought home a little set of B&W towers for an in home demo one day on a whim and was taken by surprise by what a little speaker from a higher end brand could do with clarity and detail and still play fairly loud.



The Vegas factory specs where a 3-way with large 15" woofers @ 102dB 1w/1m, 400watt RMS, and 28Hz to 28,000Hz +/- 3dB and the B&Ws where only a 2½-way with only 6.5 in woofers, a 90dB sensitivity rating, 150watt power handling, and 44Hz - 22kHz +/-3dB so I wasn't expecting much. But there was so comparison for the raw sound quality performance. I still remember the very first song I played had a bird chirping in the beginning and the B&Ws was just so much more clearer, detailed, and airy with a more 3D-like soundstage and got me closer to the fine detail and clarity I was hearing from headphones. They got me listening to music again through loudspeakers. Someone else in the B&W thread had the same experience as me with larger higher spec'd Vegas vs smaller lower spec'd B&Ws with how impressed they smoked the Vegas with sound quality. And they can still play loud enough to drown out your own voice...

You might want to check on this. I have never seen CV list a +/- response of their speakers. They just list it as a response to 28hz. Heck an 8" sealed sub can have a response listed down to 10hz as long as the cone has some movement at all. From what I am able to find, it looks like they are 150 watt RMS with 400 watt peaks. It would be nice if CV would give specs like most every other manufacturer.
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post #16 of 34 Old 02-24-2010, 04:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamonddelts View Post

Like I said before. It's always the same generic story of a guy comparing modern day high end speakers to 15-20 year old Cerwin Vega speakers. It's about as useful as comparing a new 47" Samsung LED tv to an 20 year old 61" RCA projection tv and declaring that though the Samsung is smaller it still smokes the RCA in overall quality. A high end offering with today's technological advances catered towards those with much bigger budgets beats a budget priced offering from 20 years ago. Brilliant.

No, it's not the same old generic story. Display technology has changed markedly in the last 20 years; speaker technology has not. A good set of speakers 20 years ago is a good set today. While those B&W's may be higher end (so to speak) than the CV's, the man is of the opinion that he likes them better, and he has every right to state it. It wasn't as if he was comparing brand new Paradigm Sigs to 20 yr old Kraco car audio speakers.

We all understand you like CV's, I like CV's, but there is no need to posture every time an opinion is posted about them that you disagree with.

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post #17 of 34 Old 02-24-2010, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emig5m View Post

Well I've owned Cerwin Vega for around 16 years. The last five years I noticed I had stopped listening to music through my loudspeakers all together but was constantly listening to music through my headphones as they had much better clarity and fine detail. Brought home a little set of B&W towers for an in home demo one day on a whim and was taken by surprise by what a little speaker from a higher end brand could do with clarity and detail and still play fairly loud.



The Vegas factory specs where a 3-way with large 15" woofers @ 102dB 1w/1m, 400watt RMS, and 28Hz to 28,000Hz +/- 3dB and the B&Ws where only a 2½-way with only 6.5 in woofers, a 90dB sensitivity rating, 150watt power handling, and 44Hz - 22kHz +/-3dB so I wasn't expecting much. But there was so comparison for the raw sound quality performance. I still remember the very first song I played had a bird chirping in the beginning and the B&Ws was just so much more clearer, detailed, and airy with a more 3D-like soundstage and got me closer to the fine detail and clarity I was hearing from headphones. They got me listening to music again through loudspeakers. Someone else in the B&W thread had the same experience as me with larger higher spec'd Vegas vs smaller lower spec'd B&Ws with how impressed they smoked the Vegas with sound quality. And they can still play loud enough to drown out your own voice...

Thanks for the information, but none of it really does answer the OP's question. He wanted to get information on newer Cerwin Vega speakers. He NEVER asked for a comparison test of OLD CV speakers against other brands. Here we go again. Some things never change around here. If you don't have any experience with the newer stuff, then why post? Forget about the older stuff at beer parties. Auditioning a speakers sound quality at a drunk fest and then expecting everyone to believe that is a fair test is not really fair. Those poor speakers where most likely having the S--T beat out of them at high volumes while being powered by some crappy receiver. Almost anything is going to sound bad while being played like that. Come on. Things have changed with Cerwin Vega a little since then. Im not saying you posted about beer party tests. I want to make that clear.
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Thanks for the information, but none of it really does answer the OP's question. He wanted to get information on newer Cerwin Vega speakers. He NEVER asked for a comparison test of OLD CV speakers against other brands. Here we go again. Some things never change around here. If you don't have any experience with the newer stuff, then why post? Forget about the older stuff at beer parties. Auditioning a speakers sound quality at a drunk fest and then expecting everyone to believe that is a fair test is not really fair. Those poor speakers where most likely having the S--T beat out of them at high volumes while being powered by some crappy receiver. Almost anything is going to sound bad while being played like that. Come on. Things have changed with Cerwin Vega a little since then. Im not saying you posted about beer party tests. I want to make that clear.

Great post.
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Originally Posted by DamageMcRamage View Post

No, it's not the same old generic story. Display technology has changed markedly in the last 20 years; speaker technology has not. A good set of speakers 20 years ago is a good set today. While those B&W's may be higher end (so to speak) than the CV's, the man is of the opinion that he likes them better, and he has every right to state it. It wasn't as if he was comparing brand new Paradigm Sigs to 20 yr old Kraco car audio speakers.

We all understand you like CV's, I like CV's, but there is no need to posture every time an opinion is posted about them that you disagree with.

Actually I am not a huge fan of Cerwin Vega. I only own one pair of cerwin vega speakers at this time. Though others here seem to think I favor them which I do not. All I am saying is if people are going to constantly make comparisons at least be fair. But it seems people always compare 15-20 year old pairs of cerwin vega speakers vs. high end modern day offerings. And to add to that it's usually the old school CV's with 15" woofers that were mainly for output and not clarity in the first place.
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post #20 of 34 Old 02-24-2010, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by mjg100 View Post

You might want to check on this. I have never seen CV list a +/- response of their speakers. They just list it as a response to 28hz. Heck an 8" sealed sub can have a response listed down to 10hz as long as the cone has some movement at all. From what I am able to find, it looks like they are 150 watt RMS with 400 watt peaks. It would be nice if CV would give specs like most every other manufacturer.

Nope, they definitely stated +/- 3dB 28Hz to 28,000Hz (I still have the original brochures for the VS series along with others packed away somewhere that stated all specs in detail).

It's true I wasn't comparing to the new CV lines, but in all fairness, they where the same cup of tea rehashed every other year or so for as long as I could remember as I've owned many Cerwin Vega speakers from many years apart... I think people put down Bose because they're not comparing to the latest ones and comparing to Bose that are five years old. Anyhow...I still love my old Cerwin Vegas.... a pure fun-factor speaker, but just not for critical listening...
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post #21 of 34 Old 02-24-2010, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Well thanx for all the replies. Ok if I were going to audition speakers in a certain price range would the CVs in that price range be worth auditioning compared to Klipsch, JBL, Polk, Paradigm, Def Tech, and BIC Acoustech?

I saw the specs on the new CVs the bass end looked pretty impressive but the highs only go up to about 19 kHz depending on which speaker. But looks like they are reasonably priced.

Shawn
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post #22 of 34 Old 02-24-2010, 08:24 AM
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19k.....most of us can't hear anywhere near that high anyways so that's not important.. go listen and see what your ears think... if your looking for fidelity you may not like them compared to some of the others... if you want some good deep bass and want something descent you may pick them over the rest... you're the one that'll be listening to them, your ears alone should make the choice.(maybe your wife's too if your married) !

If your mainly HT then you should have a sub so low end isn't important.. although dynamics are so keep that in mind....larger drivers or several of smaller drivers working together= more air moved=dynamics!

FYI the majority of speaker you listed will be more refined and audiphile in sound than the CV...but they were designed to reach a different crowd.
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post #23 of 34 Old 02-24-2010, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

Well thanx for all the replies. Ok if I were going to audition speakers in a certain price range would the CVs in that price range be worth auditioning compared to Klipsch, JBL, Polk, Paradigm, Def Tech, and BIC Acoustech?

I saw the specs on the new CVs the bass end looked pretty impressive but the highs only go up to about 19 kHz depending on which speaker. But looks like they are reasonably priced.

You ears might be hard pressed to even hear a 19 kHz test-tone, that's very high. I don't think it's about the paper specs, but the actual "quality" of the sound....
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post #24 of 34 Old 02-24-2010, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Believe it or not I'm one of the few people that can here 22K. I have hearing tests done each year at work for 4 yrs now and all say I can here up to 22K. I hear things most people don't and I'm not just talking about sounds from speakers, Im talkin about high pitch humming and whistling in a normal everyday work or home environment. But I do realize that most people don't here that high of freqs, but i thought it would be nice to have the head room in the higer frequencies.

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post #25 of 34 Old 02-24-2010, 08:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

Well thanx for all the replies. Ok if I were going to audition speakers in a certain price range would the CVs in that price range be worth auditioning compared to Klipsch, JBL, Polk, Paradigm, Def Tech, and BIC Acoustech?

I saw the specs on the new CVs the bass end looked pretty impressive but the highs only go up to about 19 kHz depending on which speaker. But looks like they are reasonably priced.

If you like horn loaded speakers you should look into Bic Accoustech or Klipsch. Bic Accoustech being the much cheaper of the two.

If you have a fairly robust budget then you should look into Def Tech or Paradigm. Most Def Tech speakers have internally powered subwoofers if that interests you.

JBL and Polk are not quite what they used to be yet they still are showing high price markups on their current offerings. I would suggest you definitely go to your nearest audio store and hear them in person if you can before making a decision on either of these brands.

Cerwin vega offers alot of bang for the buck at their current pricing. However be forewarned that their company was sold to a foreign source and their products are no longer made in america. Their current offerings have much cleaner highs and mids than their older products. But they are higher tuned and their bass is not as overpowering as they once were. They are now made of cheaper parts from china and are not as efficient as the older speakers in their hey day. Older Cerwin Vega speakers were routinely listed at 100db per watt efficiency. Most of today's offerings from Cerwin Vega top out at 95db per watt efficiency. And I would advise that you stay away from their subwoofers. Most of them are very cheaply made and sound hideous in my opinion.
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post #26 of 34 Old 02-24-2010, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emig5m View Post

You ears might be hard pressed to even hear a 19 kHz test-tone, that's very high. I don't think it's about the paper specs, but the actual "quality" of the sound....

http://journal.plasticmind.com/ears/...ure-a-youngun/

There are better online tests out there, but I found this one in a hurry. I can't hear above 15kHz!
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post #27 of 34 Old 02-24-2010, 09:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by diamonddelts View Post

If you like horn loaded speakers you should look into Bic Accoustech or Klipsch. Bic Accoustech being the much cheaper of the two.

If you have a fairly robust budget then you should look into Def Tech or Paradigm. Most Def Tech speakers have internally powered subwoofers if that interests you.

JBL and Polk are not quite what they used to be yet they still are showing high price markups on their current offerings. I would suggest you definitely go to your nearest audio store and hear them in person if you can before making a decision on either of these brands.

I do like horn loaded speakers and I do like the way the Klipsch RF 62s sound. I never heard any BIC Acoustech yet also I haven't heard Paradigm yet. I do have to say I was leaning towards the Polk monitor series with the M70s up front. Mainly because of their price but I want to buy something that will satisfy me for a very long time so not sure if I need to buy better than the monitors or not.

Shawn
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post #28 of 34 Old 02-24-2010, 11:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Emig5m View Post

Well I've owned Cerwin Vega for around 16 years. The last five years I noticed I had stopped listening to music through my loudspeakers all together but was constantly listening to music through my headphones as they had much better clarity and fine detail. Brought home a little set of B&W towers for an in home demo one day on a whim and was taken by surprise by what a little speaker from a higher end brand could do with clarity and detail and still play fairly loud.



The Vegas factory specs where a 3-way with large 15" woofers @ 102dB 1w/1m, 400watt RMS, and 28Hz to 28,000Hz +/- 3dB and the B&Ws where only a 2½-way with only 6.5 in woofers, a 90dB sensitivity rating, 150watt power handling, and 44Hz - 22kHz +/-3dB so I wasn't expecting much. But there was so comparison for the raw sound quality performance. I still remember the very first song I played had a bird chirping in the beginning and the B&Ws was just so much more clearer, detailed, and airy with a more 3D-like soundstage and got me closer to the fine detail and clarity I was hearing from headphones. They got me listening to music again through loudspeakers. Someone else in the B&W thread had the same experience as me with larger higher spec'd Vegas vs smaller lower spec'd B&Ws with how impressed they smoked the Vegas with sound quality. And they can still play loud enough to drown out your own voice...

Which B&W speakers are those? What is the price on them?

Shawn
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post #29 of 34 Old 02-24-2010, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

I hear things most people don't and I'm not just talking about sounds from speakers...

Well, what are THE VOICES telling you to buy, I would listen to them..

Ron
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post #30 of 34 Old 02-24-2010, 12:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

I do like horn loaded speakers and I do like the way the Klipsch RF 62s sound. I never heard any BIC Acoustech yet

I've heard the latest offerings from both the Bic Accoustech and Klipsch and I much preferred the Bic Accoustech Pl-89 system. Which is amazing considering the price difference between the two.
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