Originally Posted by craigsub
Grandarf ... Evidence would be pointing out exactly who these people were that defended AV123 to the point where applying the term "swine" to these people has merit. This has not happened.
Aren't you the same guy who said that we should withhold our judgment of MLS because there wasn't evidence that there was charity thefts?
Are you saying no one ever defended Schifter even after the charity frauds were exposed? Your evidence demands are ridiculous. Many DID defend him. Read here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...801958&page=48
just one out of many such threads containing it, read the av321.gone forums... It's everywhere... My gosh do you know how ridiculous you sound demanding evidence?! Why didn't you demand evidence from Schifter about charity donations?
Here are some of your own damning words, and probably why you took issue with the swine comment, as you most probably felt it was relevant to you...http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post17815150
Mark Schifter is still a friend. I am not "distancing myself from him". I know what his issues are and think that he has much to make up with a lot of people.
However, I don't distance myself from friends just because that friend is in trouble. I truly hope Mark can weather this storm, and that he comes out with everybody made whole at the end of the day. I have talked to Mark about these issues, and offered some advice.
Mark has a lot of work in front of him, and I wish him nothing but the best in getting through this.
Instead of defending AV1-23 gear, we have people (the "non owners) who have a vested interest in AV1-23 competitors (or just some odd vendatta against the company) ripping into AV1-23. And you think this is good ?
which was replied: "You think speaking out about the raffles situation is an odd vendetta? Oh wait, that's right, your a "friend" of the guy that "underfunded" the raffles. Vested interest?"
I said that we have people with an odd vendetta speaking out against AV-1-23. This is happening with great regularity.
I have also said, repeatedly, that MLS has many issues to clear up. As I made sure to send all my contributions directly to each and every charity or worthy individual from 2004 until the last one at AV-1-23, and these moneys were well into 5 digits, one might conclude I have earned a certain amount of credibility in this matter.
But for anyone to suggest that owners of AV-1-23 products are LESS qualified than non owners to comment on their products is pretty silly.
And, Curtis, look at Droht's post again. There WAS no mention of raffles.
Once again, the truth, Curtis. It is helpful.
Again, everything is about attitude. Notice how you downplay the charity fraud as "issues to clear up"
It's all about those who have a vendetta vs this nice guy Schifter & craigsub... "I hope he weathers this storm" "They are biased, they have an axe to grind..." Hey, he's ok, he just has a few issues to clear up! Buy away! He's a great guy and these are great products!
You always had that paranoia that some people were out to get you and your good friend Schifter... Well how do you feel now that he's being indicted for fraud? Does this make you reflect on your past actions? It sure should... Or do you see this as the result of all those evil people who have hurt your good friend Schifter and in the process yourself?
Were you aware that the raffles were scams? I don't think so, but I didn't believe that the av321.gone raffles were scams either. I just thought that he did it for the PR
and the tax credits. As you would say, I do not have evidence, either way, to know whether you were aware or unaware of this charity fraud... One thing is sure, you've always had issue with anyone not hyping him and his products. Those with a vendetta... Axe to grind... Haters...
You realize you were a part of the problem right? (although not to the extent of actively scamming people with Schifter, but that your actions probably influenced others in the wrong direction...)
I also remember many had issues when I said the raffles were for PR
and tax deduction, and said he might not be doing it because of his generosity and the kindness of his heart. Not sure if you were one of them though, doesn't really matter anyhow. I did ask you on a couple of occasions to contact Schifter and talk to him about it, since he was your friend, you were much closer to him that pretty much anyone here. Did you do it? Probably not, you preferred to downplay the 'issue' and continue to hype av321.gone products. Hey, it was just the av321.gone haters doing their thing right?
To the rest of your post, it is a series of lies. Mark and I have never been business partners. Chu Gai in his detective mode has even confirmed this.
Even the so called "official AV123 GTG" at our home was open to any and all companies that wished to attend.
In fact, the following companies had products at the GTG:
Ascend, Dana, Swan, SVS, Hsu, Elemental Designs, B&W, AV123, NHT, etc ...
And those who attended saw it was anything but an official GTG for any one company. It was a group of audiophiles meeting and having a great time.
It was friendly, and without agenda. This is, of course, something you will NEVER understand, because you don't wish to.
I remember clearly you stating it was an official av321.gone event because of your previous screwup with your switcher and reluctance of a manufacturer's products to be involved in your shootouts. But I can't find it... Anyhow, your friend Schifter attended I believe... But anyhow, not that important besides the point that you claim that my post was a series of lies, yet you tried to disprove them all by disproving only one.
Besides, what would be my lies?
1) You claimed Nikolas called all av321.gone customers swine and I demonstrated he did not. Not a lie.
2) "you are exactly like Mark Schifter, in that you continually try to twist the truth, are constantly trying to misrepresent others positions, and are constantly trying to attack other members and try to discredit them instead of answering their arguments."
. Again, not a lie, see #1 and my earlier quotes for proof.
3) "You are a poor argumentator
". Again, see #2 and #3.
4) "ex-business partner? Have you cut off the ties since his indictment, or maybe before, when it became common knowledge that he stole charity money?"
Here I'm inquiring whether you still have any business with them. I'm not saying that you have. Though you might well still be. For sure you've had business relations with Schifter and av321.gone. That fact has been well established.
5) "I think it's fairly safe to say that you each considered each other friends"
. Again, very common knowledge
6) "you were supposed to open Rocket Canada"
. Again, common knowledge.
7) "you always went so much out of your way to help Schifter and av321.gone"
. Again, hardly lies, do you deny this? Always very supportive of them? Ex: Referring to charity frauds as "issues to work out", handing out your own MFW to a disgruntled av321.gone customer, etc.?
8) "cooking up products with Schifter"
. Again, per Schifter's own words, which I did not see you complain in the least at the time... Sold your own amp, and I believe X electronics or whatever. Why don't you clarify here the extent of your relation with Schifter? Which you never seemed interested to do, even when you guys had a great relation together, if you still don't have a great relation with him today...
9) "your products advertised and part of av321.gone sales"
. Again, do you deny that?
So exactly, which are "my lies"? Fact is, you've, for the longest of times, did product comparisons, while never really disclosing that under the table you tried to make business with this Schifter and av321.gone, opening Rocket Canada, starting up your own lines of products with him or I don't know what else. You've always been ultra supportive of Schifter an av321.com, even in the light of the charity fraud... Anyhow, this somewhat blows up in your face... Really not the best of thing to be associate with Schifter these days... Like I said, I don't really want to go into this in depth (which you sorta made me do with your accusation of lying), but I guess it's a little to late now...