AVS Forum banner

Longmont Man Indicted On Suspicion of Charity Fraud

179K views 2K replies 239 participants last post by  CruelInventions 
#1 ·
 http://www.timescall.com/news_story.asp?ID=20988



© 2010 Longmont Times-Call


LONGMONT - A statewide grand jury on Friday indicted a Longmont man on suspicion of running illegal charity raffles, according to the Colorado Attorney General's Office.


Mark L. Schifter, 54, president of ww w.********** and Perpetual Technologies, was accused in a five-count indictment of making to the tune of $180,000 by defrauding 707 people in 27 illegal raffles held from 2004 through 2009. According to the attorney general's office, only $29,500 was distributed to charities. Some charities reported receiving nothing.


For more information about charities and charitable soliticters, visit www.checkthecharity.com .


http://www.timescall.com/assets/pdf/...indictment.pdf
 
See less See more
#1,263 ·
I may not know everything in the bible but I do know that anger and resentment are lethal to ones peace of mind. It is hard to do however, it can be a relief to forgive. I still agree the guy and some of the folks there are sick but it is divine to forgive. In many ways even justifiable anger can turn and bite the angry. No aspersions to anyone on here. I love the forums but sometimes myself included can be very judgemental. For that I apologize to all. It seems ridiculous though to keep reliving these horrible deeds. I ask to what gain?
 
#1,264 ·
Forgive what?


Why should he be forgiven?


(please no bible quotes)


What he did wasn't a mistake or accident, it was intentional/premeditated.


It's not like he did something bad in haste or 'in the moment', he carefully planed, orchestrated and conned people out of their hard earned living wages for years and years. He perfectly knew exactly what he was doing. During the period the Bible was written (and a long time after that), he would of been executed for such a deed, with the church's endorsement.
 
#1,265 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmo C /forum/post/19064110


Is what I'm typing on your screen? I typed the poster was wise, that's not a crack, for so few post.I've seen post counts in the thousands without as much wisdom.I think a member with that attitude is a great asset, especially an infrequent poster as that.


Is this site become so narcissistic that every word is totally misinterpreted? As to being a jerk...........

Sry, my interpretation is that it was a snarky response.
 
#1,268 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnridgerunner /forum/post/19064338


I'm no bible thumper. Just a guy who had to learn the hard way what anger and bitterness can do in a persons life. These things are like a cancer in the body and the mind, slowly eroding away the good in us. Let me ask this question. What joy do you get out of hatred and anger?

What's wrong with being angry after you've been robbed?


What's wrong with hating those who've robbed you?


What's wrong with feeling better that justice is/will be served to those who've done such a thing to you?


What's wrong with those being punished for their bad deeds?


W/O any of the above, more people will rob and take advantage of others, with justice taking a back seat.


I've been the victim of robbery (of various forms) as many have, and as time passes, I think less about it, but I never forget and I would never forgive those who've prayed on the me. Does it interfere with my happiness in life? For me, absolutely not.


Everyone has the right to forgive anyone that's done harm to them, and the how's and why's of that is certainly very specific to each and every case/situation. But I myself would never ask anyone else to forgive (or even ponder it) the person(s) who've harmed them, that is totally up to the victim and I would never make judgment on a victim based on whether they have forgiven their predators or not. I myself thinks it's almost an insult to question a victims reasons for forgiveness (or lack of), when you're not the one who was victimized.


For any victim, they might feel better forgiving early and moving on, or forgiving later and moving on, or not forgiving at all.


Everyone is different. Don't assume forgiveness is an 'Easy Button' for all.
 
#1,269 ·
Don't get me wrong here, I agree this guy needs to be punished. The only thing I'm trying to get across is that if you sit in that kind of @#$. You might start to smell like it. It simply isn't all that healthy. Not trying to preach here. Trying to help is all. Trust me, It's just that I personally have sat in that kind of stuff and it only made ME ill. It accomplished nothing except to make me ill in the long run. Sure, short term the anger can be soothing but to keep it up over time is not healthy. Just trying to help and pass on a little bit of personal knowledge. Anger can be a good thing but, toomuch of a good thing, over time, can be destructive. I apologize if I came off as preachy or holier than thou. Not my intent. John


By the way, I did say it is not easy, believe me I know.
 
#1,270 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnridgerunner /forum/post/19064475


Sure, short term the anger can be soothing but to keep it up over time is not healthy. Just trying to help and pass on a little bit of personal knowledge. Anger can be a good thing but, toomuch of a good thing, over time, can be destructive. I apologize if I came off as preachy or holier than thou. Not my intent. John


By the way, I did say it is not easy, believe me I know.

Understood. It's hard to know the levels of 'anger' any other person feels, and even harder to know over the internet.


Of course, unchecked blood boiling anger over the course of time doesn't do anyone any good. I myself learn to move on with life as it needs to be enjoyed of course, but it doesn't mean I'm still not angry, it just doesn't affect my daily life. But if I was to run into anyone who had victimized me, I'm surely not gonna pat them on the back and say; 'I've forgiven you'. I personally don't think they deserve it, nor would it be honest (to me). I can't fool myself into thinking I can forgive all, when I can't. But I CAN move on.


I think it's possible to not forgive and still be a happy camper. I don't think I'm the only one.


After all, I did say this>

Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman /forum/post/19064427


I've been the victim of robbery (of various forms) as many have, and as time passes, I think less about it, but I never forget and I would never forgive those who've prayed on the me. Does it interfere with my happiness in life? For me, absolutely not.

.

I've learned to deal with things my way, but it may not work for everyone else. We all cope and learn to cope in our own ways. Believe it or not, I couldn't be happier (well, maybe just a tiny bit), but if MLS gets off with a slap on the wrist, I'm not gonna lie to you, I'll be a little less happy and a little more angry....
 
#1,271 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnridgerunner /forum/post/19064307


I may not know everything in the bible but I do know that anger and resentment are lethal to ones peace of mind. It is hard to do however, it can be a relief to forgive. I still agree the guy and some of the folks there are sick but it is divine to forgive. In many ways even justifiable anger can turn and bite the angry. No aspersions to anyone on here. I love the forums but sometimes myself included can be very judgemental. For that I apologize to all. It seems ridiculous though to keep reliving these horrible deeds. I ask to what gain?

While I agree with your larger point about festering anger, I follow this thread in the fervent hope all AVS members will LEARN something from what has transpired with MLS and take that knowledge, peppered with a healthy dose of critical thinking, into their future dealings. What Chu has done here with some help from others is illustrate a very valuable lesson. Those who have followed this from the beginning know how much criticism he took along the way for pointing out the emperor had no clothes. Many people really slammed him, all the while defending MLS/AV321 because he was providing "value" products to them. They saw no further than their own pocketbooks. Where are they now?



This whole fiasco with AV321 should prove that we all need to do our due diligence whether it's B&M, ID, or small boutique company. My antennae go up when I see uber-rampant fanboyism (exactly like what surrounded MLS) about a new product/company being pushed in a forum. Especially when you hear things like "yeah, there's no measurements/specs but these are just as good or better than something twice the price." That, coupled with loud and aggressive defenses of new (sometimes unreleased!) products is another sign this very same phenomenon is occurring once again. THAT'S the big lesson here. People act like MLS was the devil incarnate and this could never happen again. Guess what? Not only can it happen; it IS happening as we speak.


Chris
 
#1,272 ·
Agreed, Kudos to Chu! It is a valuable lesson. We all need to be wary of folks like this.

For myself, I do keep a close eye on possible scams out there. It truly is a shame that people like this are even out there. In the county I live in the Feds have even caught up with two of our judges. They were funnelling money to a crony they had invested money with who built and operated a juvenile detention center. They were gettin kick backs for the kids they sent there. The more kids the more money. No legal representation, no anything. Just sickness. Fleaman, I do understand the ire and I am glad you can deal with it effectively. Sorry for raising any hackles.
 
#1,273 ·
Whether you like him or not, whether you may think he just happened to be right in the same way a broken clock is right two times a day, whatever, the person that I happen to think hit the nail on the head with respect to something not being right in AV451 land and MLS a long time ago was Grandarf. He spoke out vocally with respect to how business there was operated and took a ton of heat and there were tons to be doled out because the supporters of the business and the man who headed it were a vocal crowd. There are a couple of others too but it was Grandarf that I wished I had paid more attention to.


As to forgiveness, I can see that. I'm also a believer in that when warranted. However, with respect to the Longmont operation I see no act(s) of sincere contrition. Unbridled hate and limitless love can both blind a person. There's a lot of righteous anger and the reckoning is far from over. I sincerely doubt Mr. Pu will ever see the roughly $1 million he's owed. I doubt Danny or Seaton will ever recoup their losses unless they take some sort of legal action. I doubt Santiago will get back what he's owed. Ruben, a married man with four children, was that close to losing his house with his whole family becoming homeless after dealing with MLS but for a short time. AFAIK, MLS still has the house and when it's eventually foreclosed upon, it's my sincerest wish that all his creditors, including those that are pursuing him in small claims court get their cut. If that leaves him homeless, all I can say is phuck him. He's had it coming for a long time.
 
#1,274 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai /forum/post/19065363


However, with respect to the Longmont operation I see no act(s) of sincere contrition.

I think this statement sums up my biggest issue with Mark and his business practices. How many times did we see Mark make heart-felt posts about how they were making changes to the way they did business? Each time, the same old practices re-surfaced, often within weeks if not days. That same "sincere" tone saturated every new raffle thread that sought to leech more money out of his community of supporters and each new product announcement that was still nothing more than a napkin sketch, quick computer rendering, and absurdly unrealistic release date. Each of those promises - of reform, of helping others, of making things right - was hollow and manipulative.
 
#1,275 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by gonk /forum/post/19065440


I think this statement sums up my biggest issue with Mark and his business practices. How many times did we see Mark make heart-felt posts about how they were making changes to the way they did business? Each time, the same old practices re-surfaced, often within weeks if not days. That same "sincere" tone saturated every new raffle thread that sought to leech more money out of his community of supporters and each new product announcement that was still nothing more than a napkin sketch, quick computer rendering, and absurdly unrealistic release date. Each of those promises - of reform, of helping others, of making things right - was hollow and manipulative.

And the ultimate (as in final) manipulation: announcing the LS4s and G2s and showing some Photoshopped drawings of them in order to clean out the last bit of junk in the warehouse.
 
#1,276 ·
Definitely - and don't forget the eagerly-anticipated trade-in program toward the G2 Rockets...
 
#1,277 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by gonk /forum/post/19065440


I think this statement sums up my biggest issue with Mark and his business practices. How many times did we see Mark make heart-felt posts about how they were making changes to the way they did business? Each time, the same old practices re-surfaced, often within weeks if not days. That same "sincere" tone saturated every new raffle thread that sought to leech more money out of his community of supporters and each new product announcement that was still nothing more than a napkin sketch, quick computer rendering, and absurdly unrealistic release date. Each of those promises - of reform, of helping others, of making things right - was hollow and manipulative.

Every year you could count on a post or more, usually long winded, that would say how next year was going to be a better year. More realistic shipping dates. Keeping people informed. Less of 'this is what I'm thinking of making'. Etc. He would publicly state that he took personal responsibility for the delays in this. The delays in that. We're going to add more staff. We're going to China or Colombia and bring good old American manufacturing and quality knowhow. Then would come the posts from people lauding praise for such transparency. Such honesty. Such personal responsibility. Such a baring of the soul.


Towards the end what did we see? After the raffle business was out for all to read about, what was one of his first thoughts after the forum reopened? Run a raffle for the LS-4. 'Course we now know that Danny hadn't even done the crossover work for the speaker. Even one of his recent promotions - a chance to win an iPad if you've spent $500 or more and happen to be randomly selected was a raffle. Raffles are illegal to run by a business.


The new amp that came out of QSC? It wasn't even UL listed for safety but MLS said that was in progress.


A few people that paid about $6,000 to be RSL-II beta testers suddenly got their money back a few months ago. Why? Because they were the ones to whom MLS sent refunds to by checks that bounced. If you bounce a check and it's over a certain amount, it's a felony. So he took care of them but the others? **** out of luck.


What happened to Sean Parque? He had to take MLS to small claims court to get the speakers he paid for. Sean was only a loyal and effective employee for a number of years and this is how he was rewarded.


Some may remember the screen name, Jongaro. He had to go through the Colorado Attorney General's office, Better Business Bureau, etc. to get the money he was owed. On AV451's forum, Jongaro was ridiculed by MLS and his very closest associates and/or friends. They ran a sale in honor of Jongaro's name mocking him.


Contrition was not a word in MLS's lexicon. It was all about getting over and now the whole world knows what only his past closest associates knew. There was a reason his nickname was Shifty Schifter and they were using the term Kool-Aid long before any of us ever were.
 
#1,278 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudda /forum/post/19065011



This whole fiasco with AV321 should prove that we all need to do our due diligence whether it's B&M, ID, or small boutique company. My antennae go up when I see uber-rampant fanboyism (exactly like what surrounded MLS) about a new product/company being pushed in a forum. Especially when you hear things like "yeah, there's no measurements/specs but these are just as good or better than something twice the price." That, coupled with loud and aggressive defenses of new (sometimes unreleased!) products is another sign this very same phenomenon is occurring once again. THAT'S the big lesson here. People act like MLS was the devil incarnate and this could never happen again. Guess what? Not only can it happen; it IS happening as we speak.


Chris

Hmm, care to elaborate on that? Curious...
 
#1,280 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudda /forum/post/19065011


This whole fiasco with AV321 should prove that we all need to do our due diligence whether it's B&M, ID, or small boutique company. My antennae go up when I see uber-rampant fanboyism (exactly like what surrounded MLS) about a new product/company being pushed in a forum. Especially when you hear things like "yeah, there's no measurements/specs but these are just as good or better than something twice the price." That, coupled with loud and aggressive defenses of new (sometimes unreleased!) products is another sign this very same phenomenon is occurring once again. THAT'S the big lesson here. People act like MLS was the devil incarnate and this could never happen again. Guess what? Not only can it happen; it IS happening as we speak.


Chris

If you're talking about who I think you are, while there are definitely some noticeable similarities, there is also at least one very notable difference too - namely that MLS would (at least at one time anyway) take any criticism of him or his company and products and actually try to turn it into an advantage by "dealing" with it in such a "generous above and beyond" manner that in turn only elicited more praise from his sheepish followers as to what a great a guy he was, while the individual I'm thinking of is far too thin skinned and simply can't handle any kind of criticism or questioning (even when constructive) in any way, and it only makes him foolishly lash out because of it. But maybe that's actually a good thing as it shows that the individual is more "real" and maybe at least a little bit less of a phony as the other clearly was.


Note that my observations are based only from what I've seen here at AVS, and not at each individual's respective forums as I never have visited either one of them, nor ever plan to visit the one that still exists.
 
#1,281 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark russ /forum/post/19066991


If you're talking about who I think you are, while there are definitely some noticeable similarities, there is also at least one very notable difference too - namely that MLS would (at least at one time anyway) take any criticism of him or his company and products and actually try to turn it into an advantage by "dealing" with it in such a "generous above and beyond" manner that in turn only elicited more praise from his sheepish followers as to what a great a guy he was, while the individual I'm thinking of is far too thin skinned and simply can't handle any kind of criticism or questioning (even when constructive) in any way, and it only makes him foolishly lash out because of it. But maybe that's actually a good thing as it shows that the individual is more "real" and maybe at least a little bit less of a phony as the other clearly was.


Note that my observations are based only from what I've seen here at AVS, and not at each individual's respective forums as I never have visited either one of them, nor ever plan to visit the one that still exists.


Actually, I was not pointing fingers at any individual or company. As far as I know there's nobody hawking products that even approaches MLS's pathology. He was a true blue con man. It's interesting though that someone else strikes you as having some notable similarities.
This would support my contention that "history is not was, history is.


The point I'm making is conditions are ripe for another con man/men to come swooping in just like MLS. Another savior. Even after the charity scandal broke there were those who flat out said they didn't care as long as they got their speakers from AV321 at a hefty discount. There will always be a certain quotient who seek a bargain and they are the con man's bread and butter. It was the same thing with Bernie Madoff. Investors knew something wasn't quite right but they wanted to believe.


Chris
 
#1,282 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by aydu /forum/post/19061662


Ironic that I ran across this thread while listening to my Rockets.


Bought them over 5 years ago on sale.


Have to admit they are beautiful speakers and sound good.


Glad I purchased from them while they were still a real company, although my interactions with them during the purchase impressed me as being a very small company, with less than strong internal communications.


The company certainly has declined over the years, venturing into eventual criminal behavior.


Too bad that an Internet Direct company went bad. Makes it tougher to truse others.


I'm seeing similar trends with Emotiva, starting with the delayed development cycle of the UMC-1; the problems with the unit not getting corrected.


When a company starts relying on promises, rather than their products, it's not a good sign. Add to that an ego driven owner (which both companies seem to have) and the prospects of recovering become even slimmer.


The mixed parentage of AV666 and Emo might prove that the apple truly does not fall far from the tree.

I can think of several I.D. companies that have not delivered the goods as promised, it seems like one BS story after another. None of these guys have the resources to direct market cutting edge, quality products that compete with the likes of Marantz, Denon, or Onkyo. They are ALWAYS behind the curve with features and codecs. I would NEVER trust a "virtual" company after what happened at 123. These guys are all about the quick buck and don't really care about the end user. AV123 isn't the last I.D. company that will go belly up, it's just a matter of time.
 
#1,284 ·
Generalize much?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve. /forum/post/19068257


I can think of several I.D. companies that have not delivered the goods as promised, it seems like one BS story after another. None of these guys have the resources to direct market cutting edge, quality products that compete with the likes of Marantz, Denon, or Onkyo. They are ALWAYS behind the curve with features and codecs. I would NEVER trust a "virtual" company after what happened at 123. These guys are all about the quick buck and don't really care about the end user. AV123 isn't the last I.D. company that will go belly up, it's just a matter of time.
 
#1,285 ·
As was stated earlier, MLS plead guilty to two felony charges. The judge in the matter will decide, based on any arguments advanced by both prosecution and defense, what the sentencing will be. At this moment in time, it is entirely unknown which way the pendulum will swing. What can be said with certainty is that restitution plus any other fees and fines are guaranteed. MLS, having posted bail earlier after deciding that the Boulder County Jail and relaxation center didn't meet his sense of accommodations, remains free if you will. I don't know if he's staying at home in the loving arms of his wife, with Ms. Khabarvski, bunking with Kyle, or somewhere else. But he's not incarcerated at this time.

Victim Impact Statements will be provided to the judge and will be a factor in whatever sentence is meted out. So, folks, if you were a victim, and didn't file one do so. Victim means you made a contribution to any of the raffles that he ran. Time is wasting. If you need to know how to do it, please go here:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums...postcount=4170


At the end of the trial, it will be possible to obtain court transcripts. If I get a hold of them, I'll post them here. Lastly, it cannot be confirmed nor denied that person(s) were offered immunity from prosecution. In the words of Mr. Gump, "And that's all I have to say about that."


PS: I have it on good authority, that Anita Koch will have an interview in the very near future.
 
#1,286 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark russ /forum/post/19066991


If you're talking about who I think you are, while there are definitely some noticeable similarities, there is also at least one very notable difference too - namely that MLS would (at least at one time anyway) take any criticism of him or his company and products and actually try to turn it into an advantage by "dealing" with it in such a "generous above and beyond" manner that in turn only elicited more praise from his sheepish followers as to what a great a guy he was, while the individual I'm thinking of is far too thin skinned and simply can't handle any kind of criticism or questioning (even when constructive) in any way, and it only makes him foolishly lash out because of it. But maybe that's actually a good thing as it shows that the individual is more "real" and maybe at least a little bit less of a phony as the other clearly was.


Note that my observations are based only from what I've seen here at AVS, and not at each individual's respective forums as I never have visited either one of them, nor ever plan to visit the one that still exists.

It is interesting how many blind followers of AV123 are now doing the same for that company including pumping products they haven't heard based on whose company it is. The lack of skepticism by these folks is quite the head scratcher in the wake of AV123. Not saying the products won't live up to the hype but why after av123 is there hype until the products have been heard by many?


I'm also very skeptical of the audio press especially the e-zines ones after all this.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top