Originally Posted by Grandarf
Many here not only had to endure Schifter still acting like everything was great, running around and hyping his products, but also all his supporters who seemed to take delight in constantly attacking other members, accusing them of being biased, having vendettas, an axe to grind, of being bashers, haters, of having no life, of being liars, of having agendas, etc... As I said, these, imho, were a big part of the problem.
I think the "constantly attacking other members, accusing them of being biased, having vendettas, an axe to grind, of being bashers, haters, of having no life, of being liars, of having agendas, etc" went both ways. Just as there were AV123 supporters, there were people that were the polar opposite, but resorted to using the same tactics.
Having said that, I do remember some cases where forum members here had legitimate issues with the company AND were attacked rather unfairly, as you suggested. In particular, I remember this thread:http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1010676&page=2
Originally Posted by CitznFish
Let me tell you a little story....
Back in Sept. of 2007 I purchased a complete set of AV123 spekers. Monitor 1's for front and center, Rocket dipolds for the rear, and ordered their NEW and "soon to be released' X-plosiv Subwoofer. Well fter a couple of months I received my monitor 1's followed by the Rocket dipolds. (November 11, 2007) At that time I asked when the subwoofer would be shipped. I was told later in November. The that date pssed and I asked again and I was told December. Then I never heard again from AV123.
So fast forward to early February and I again contact AV123 only to find out now that the X-plosiv subwoofer is still in development and there is no expected completion date for my order! It has now been 7 months since I bought and paid for everything. AV123 never updated me on the status, they have just left me hanging and have made it my responsibility to check on their progress.
Is waiting 7 months normal for small speaker shops like this? The communication is sub par at best. I would just get my money back but I want all the speakers to match.
They should have never taken orders for a product they didn't plan on developing. AS far as I know it's still just a sketch on a napkin.
Live and learn I guess. But AV123 certainly lost me as a good reference for their customer service.
What would you guys do at this point?
Thanks for letting me vent...
I remember this as a very fair complaint and one of the first warning signs for me about this company. Previously, if you look into my post history, I was considering buying a pair of speakers from AV123 to give as a wedding present to my brother, who lives in the US. I live in Asia so it wouldn't be worth getting a pair for myself, but I was so intrigued by all the positive hype about their speakers and thought it would be cool to get my brother a nice Strata Mini and matching tube amp, which from the reviews seemed like a really good match and a great deal. Eventually, they weren't in stock at the time (about 2-3 months before the date) and AV123 wasn't able to truly guarantee that they would get new ones in time for the wedding (though they were strongly hinting that it "shouldn't be a problem") so I dropped the idea. It was partly from threads like these that made me skeptical of their "word" (but not guarantee) and I certainly didn't want to fly all the way to the wedding empty-handed. Therefore, threads like these actually helped me to be careful and potentially avoided a disaster.
That's why when I read some of the replies, they put a sour taste in my mouth.
Originally Posted by Nuance
Well, I certainly wouldn't start a thread attempting to tarnish a company's rep with an already well known GREAT customer service rep. I would have been more mature and patient. Don't you think taking this up with their upper management staff would have been more effective?
Hey, you asked!
So did they charge you the full amount, or just take a deposit? Whichever one it was, YOU let them do it. That was your decision pal.
P.S. This has nothing to do with av123. I would feel the same if the guy said the same things about "Always With Wings." This could have been handled better and easier.
Originally Posted by Nuance
Judging from their popularity and well received products and customer service, I'd say that they aren't creating problems for themselves. The real problem was created by the OP himself when he supposedly (hasn't been confirmed yet) ordered a product that wasn't in production yet. Did he NEED to do that? NO! It's his fault that he didn't have the patience to wait until the product was finalized and available. There is no one to blame but himself, but instead he created a stupid thread bashing a company.
This applies to ANY company by the way, not just AV123. If a company offers pre-orders on a product not yet available, the buyer is the only one who makes the decision to purchase. Release dates get pushed back sometimes, no matter what the item is. Anyone with common sense knows this. No one forced him to buy then and there.
Originally Posted by Nuance
Who said he had to wait 7 months to ask for his money back? Who said he had to make a per-order rather than waiting until it was released? AV123 didn't; only he did. It hasn't even been confirmed that his card was charged more than a deposit to hold his pre-order. So then he starts a thread bashing a company because of his poor decision making? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight...
Lots of trolls around tonight...
I just remember thinking how awful the OP was being treated. Here was a guy that was excited about getting his speakers from the company, and promised his speakers would be delivered "this month" month after month until they no longer reply to him. Then he finds out the speakers are "still in development" 7 months after he's paid for them in full. And when he posts his scenario onto this forum, which is as legitamite as any other topic here, he gets bashed for "attempting to tarnish a company's rep", not being "mature and patient", and that "[HE] let them do it".
Furthermore, he gets accused of just having paid a "deposit" for the speaker (as if that really matters) despite him already stated he had "bought and paid for everything", that the "real problem was created by the OP himself when he supposedly (hasn't been confirmed yet) ordered a product that wasn't in production yet", that it was "his fault that he didn't have the patience to wait until the product was finalized", that "there is no one to blame but himself", and that "he created a stupid thread bashing a company".
I mean really! I was just amazed and astounded that someone who's paid for a product and has waited 7 months for delivery would be thrashed like that, but the company actually doing the shafting would be considered having "GREAT customer service rep".
Then for actually trusting AV123 to do what ANY company would be expected to do, which is to deliver a product or service when paid for in a timely manner, the poster gets criticized for "his poor decision making" for actually dealing with AV123.
The pièce de résistance
, however, must have been the parting kiss which is to label the poster a "troll".
Keep in mind that all these attacks on the OP for his legitimate complaints came on the FIRST PAGE. There were pages after this where there more attacks from the same poster claiming "the thread was intentionally started to smear av123. Its pretty obvious, well at least to those with common sense", "none of this has actually been proven as fact", "the OP had hateful intentions" and "[i]ts too bad the OP started such a hateful thread in which he attacked av123".
The fact that the OP had paid money for a speaker he didn't see for 7 months and discussed it in a speaker forum and then attacked as having "hateful intentions", intentionally trying to "smear" a company, and lacking "common sense" for making the purchase is truly unbelievable. The OP never received any type of apology for this attacked even when Mark admitted it was his company's mistake, and Mark gets hailed as a hero for "solving" a situation which should have never happened in the first place and which was IGNORED for 7 months until the OP had posted his thread about it.
I personally would like to thank that OP for saving me the GRIEF that he himself endured by posting his situation with AV123 on his thread, which made me think twice about ordering the Strata Mini and tube amp for my brother's wedding present, and having not arrived in time would have been extremely embarrassing and disrespectful to my brother on his wedding day.
I remember at the time wondering why I never saw nearly the level of vitriol against posters with complaints about other speaker companies, and what made AV123 supporters so adamant and staunchly supportive about this company that seemed to have more problems with their product and delivery than any other company. It's still a mystery to me, but I think the OP and others on that thread supporting him have been vindicated, and should be congratulated for saving people like me the awful experiences that many AV123 customers have endured.