Liked Klipsch la scala n heresy's what to upgrade for home theater? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 106 Old 06-04-2010, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Update: I ended up going with 3 Klipsch La Scalas up front. I bought them used for a total of $1700.

My goals are to get something very dynamic that can play at high volume to keep up with my epik empire subwoofer which can hit 130db at 80hz.
I just listened to some 1977 klipsch la scalas and some 1972 (maybe) klipsch heresy's. I then went home to listen to my current setup with the same songs (maria carey).

The klipsch speakers were so clear and had such separation that it almost make the electronic drum sounding carey song's sound bare (with lots of holes in the sound field). When listening to my setup, the same song just sounded terrible with all of the sounds being on top of one another. There was no separation of voice and individual instruments. I listened to these songs at around 110db or so (guessing). My speakers have a high sensitivity of around 97. My onkyo receiver puts out about 145 watts rms into 2 channels.

Rock music on the klipsch speakers sounded just plain amazing on both sets. The sound field really filled in and the heresy's sounded on par with the ls scalas with the exception of less bass which shouldn't be a problem for me since I have a decent subwoofer.

I posted here earlier, but have done more research. I got some great advice from you guys to get me started in the right direction and to figure out what my goals really are; crisp, loud, distortion free, accurate sound.

The pro-10's were a suggestion that I might go for, but they haven't been released yet so I'm considering others too. I don't mind buying used. My fiance prefers a more modern look though, so new might be good. I of course want the best sound for my money and can deal with older designs better than she.

I can't get the clear sound out of my head that came with the la scala's. The heresy's sounded very similar to the la scala's too and both would be a huge (like 10 fold) improvement over my cerwin vega's.

The la scalas are in great condition and are selling for $1300. I found a really good condition (according to the add) heresy's for $350. I found another set of heresys with an asking price of $300 with cosmetic damage (i haven't seen them yet).

The pro-10's will go for $1000 for 3 or $1600 for 5. There are a lot of options here, but advice would be great on these or other options that might be good for my goals. I probably won't spend more than $1500 to start with and would prefer spending about $1000 for the front 3 speakers (and add the rears later, use my cerwin vegas for now).

I know now that I really need an upgrade in my ht speakers.

I listen to home theater 95% of the time (with the new la scalas I listen to music about 20% of the time now).

Here's my current speaker setup. Cerwin Vega RE-30's for fronts (12 inch floorstanding circa ~1996), Cerwin Vega RE-20 (floorstanding 8 inch) for the center and one RE-20 (just picked up a pair) for a surround and the other surround is a cerwin vega D-1, I believe, (8 in floorstanding) that I bought used in 1992), and a recently purchased Epik Empire subwoofer (dual 15in subs, 600W amplifier for $799 (retail $1499).

I currently have an epson 8500ub 1080p projector ($2500), a da-lite high power 119 inch diagonal screen (Cinema contour) ($1500), an onkyo sr-805 receiver (130W RMS X7, THX ultra 2 certification), and a PS3.

Any advice from the experts?
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post #2 of 106 Old 06-05-2010, 08:53 AM
 
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I would look for used or wait until the Pro-10's are out. I think they are only a couple weeks away. Good thing about the Pro-10's is, they are returnable and used speakers you are stuck with.

Added
130db from an Epik Empire???
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post #3 of 106 Old 06-05-2010, 09:20 AM
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I had many years ago the Klispch Forte II's and really loved them, until I heard a Paradigm home theater system. I decided and I still have a Paradigm system that is great for both music and movies. My system consists of a pair of Monitor 9s, CC350 for center channel, ADP190s for surround and a PS1200 sub. I am hoping to upgrade my surrounds to the new Hybrid 10s. I've heard some very good things about them and I'm hoping they will be a match for my current system.

Jeff
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post #4 of 106 Old 06-05-2010, 10:17 AM - Thread Starter
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I may just wait. The shipping to return the pro10s might be steep though. Have you heard the Klipsch?
By the numbers it seems the heresys would be a more similar speaker to the 10 s. How does the Klipsch compare to the jtr triple eights?

What did you like about the paridigms over the Klipsch for home theater? Do the paridgms go as loud or do they mainly look nicer or is the sound quality noticeably cleaner or better in some way?

What do you like about the jtr's? They are supposed to be very similar to the new pro10's.
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post #5 of 106 Old 06-05-2010, 10:17 AM - Thread Starter
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I may just wait. The shipping to return the pro10s might be steep though. Have you heard the Klipsch?
By the numbers it seems the heresys would be a more similar speaker to the 10 s. How does the Klipsch compare to the jtr triple eights?

What did you like about the paridigms over the Klipsch for home theater? Do the paridgms go as loud or do they mainly look nicer or is the sound quality noticeably cleaner or better in some way?

What do you like about the jtr's? They are supposed to be very similar to the new pro10's.
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post #6 of 106 Old 06-05-2010, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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How about the jbl 4702x and 4722x from their pro srx series? I dfound 3 used for $1575. they are their top of the line portable speaker.
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post #7 of 106 Old 06-05-2010, 01:08 PM
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As a Klipsch owner since the early 1970's, I admit to being a bit biased.. I am assuming the units are for sale in your area and you can check them out. They are all great deals and I would not hesitate to purchase any. Let your ears be your guide. If you want real Theater sound, these are the way to go. At these prices, it's really a no brainer.

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post #8 of 106 Old 06-05-2010, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by mjg100 View Post

Added
130db from an Epik Empire???

He has the special horn loaded version.
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post #9 of 106 Old 06-05-2010, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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I know right That's what Chad got when testing. Excellent midrange punch
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post #10 of 106 Old 06-05-2010, 01:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by curt248 View Post

I know right That's what Chad got when testing. Excellent midrange punch

I went to Chad's site and it said test results coming soon, once the snow clears.
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post #11 of 106 Old 06-05-2010, 01:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

As a Klipsch owner since the early 1970's, I admit to being a bit biased.. I am assuming the units are for sale in your area and you can check them out. They are all great deals and I would not hesitate to purchase any. Let your ears be your guide. If you want real Theater sound, these are the way to go. At these prices, it's really a no brainer.

Not the only way to go. The Pro-10's are cheaper unless you find a very good deal on the Klipsch and they are close by so you do not have to ship. The Pro-10's are a similar design. 10" pro driver and horn loaded compression driver.
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post #12 of 106 Old 06-05-2010, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by curt248 View Post

How about the jbl 4702x and 4722x from their pro srx series? I dfound 3 used for $1575. they are their top of the line portable speaker.

Curt (that's my bro's name and he lives outside of Detroit, hmmm). Anyway, I like this option the best. I have three MRX512's and they can easily hit 125 db at the LP 13 feet away. They are behind my AT screen. After trying many, many "Hi-fi" speakers over the years, I will always use pro speakers now!
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post #13 of 106 Old 06-05-2010, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curt248 View Post

My goals are to get something very dynamic that can play at high volume to keep up with my epik empire subwoofer which can hit 130db at 80hz.
I just listened to some 1977 klipsch la scalas and some 1972 (maybe) klipsch heresy's.

I heard at the Klipsch HQ in Indy, 3 LaScalas up front with 2 Belles in the back and dual THX subs brining up the lower end and it was the Best HT sound I have ever heard...That being said, I would skip the Heresies and go for the bigger speakers all of the way around. Good Luck.
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post #14 of 106 Old 06-05-2010, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by mjg100 View Post

Not the only way to go. The Pro-10's are cheaper unless you find a very good deal on the Klipsch and they are close by so you do not have to ship. The Pro-10's are a similar design. 10" pro driver and horn loaded compression driver.

At what the OP posted his prices were, they look like a great deal to me. If I were in his area, I'd already have them bought assuming they were functional. I have no idea what a Pro-10 is .. if it's a Klipsch, I've never heard of it.

I do know this .. La Scala's and Heresy's are incredible home theater speakers... and compare favorably with the Klipsch Cinema Speaker line.

I run a pair of Cornwall I's as my mains, with smaller model Klipsch center and surrounds in my HT. It's quite engaging. In my family room, a pair of Heresy's for music only.

Have you priced a new La Scala..?? 3K Each retail plus .. even if the OP had to pay the full $1300 he mentioned for the pair and had to do some work to them, it would still be a deal.

There is a reason Klipsch has been placing sound in theaters for decades. If you want real theater sound, go with Klipsch.

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post #15 of 106 Old 06-05-2010, 03:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

At what the OP posted his prices were, they look like a great deal to me. If I were in his area, I'd already have them bought assuming they were functional. I have no idea what a Pro-10 is .. if it's a Klipsch, I've never heard of it.

I do know this .. La Scala's and Heresy's are incredible home theater speakers... and compare favorably with the Klipsch Cinema Speaker line.

I run a pair of Cornwall I's as my mains, with smaller model Klipsch center and surrounds in my HT. It's quite engaging. In my family room, a pair of Heresy's for music only.

Have you priced a new La Scala..?? 3K Each retail plus .. even if the OP had to pay the full $1300 he mentioned for the pair and had to do some work to them, it would still be a deal.

There is a reason Klipsch has been placing sound in theaters for decades. If you want real theater sound, go with Klipsch.

Did not say they were a bad deal, but you can get three Pro-10's for $1,000 so we are talking in the same price range as the Heresy's and you are getting new speakers with warranty.
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Did not say they were a bad deal, but you can get three Pro-10's for $1,000 so we are talking in the same price range as the Heresy's and you are getting new speakers with warranty.

Where can I get info on these Pro 10's..??

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post #17 of 106 Old 06-05-2010, 05:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Do pro speakers usually sound crisp and clear? The used jbl's are rated for about 127db. The Klipsch la scala are rated for about 121db. The pro10s for about 117db.
The used jbl are rated up to 600watts which is much higher than the others. La scalas 400 Watts.
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post #18 of 106 Old 06-05-2010, 05:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Do pro speakers usually sound crisp and clear? The used jbl's are rated for about 127db. The Klipsch la scala are rated for about 121db. The pro10s for about 117db.
The used jbl are rated up to 600watts which is much higher than the others. La scalas 400 Watts.
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post #19 of 106 Old 06-05-2010, 05:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curt248 View Post

Do pro speakers usually sound crisp and clear? The used jbl's are rated for about 127db. The Klipsch la scala are rated for about 121db. The pro10s for about 117db.
The used jbl are rated up to 600watts which is much higher than the others. La scalas 400 Watts.

The PRO-10's will actually deliver well over 120 dB. The 117 dB output is with a 100 watt amplifier. Most of the under $2000 receivers really only hit about 100 watts, so it seemed prudent to quote a 100 watt SPL on these speakers.

Those LaScalas for $1300 are a heck of a deal, too. Having been around Klipsch for over 30 years, and currently as the owner of Cornwalls, I would look pretty hard at grabbing those for that price.
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post #20 of 106 Old 06-05-2010, 05:49 PM
 
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LaScalas are great, but you said you wanted to spend around $1,000, $1,500 at the most. I thought you were talking about all three speakers. The LaScalas you said were $1,500 for a pair.
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post #21 of 106 Old 06-05-2010, 06:32 PM - Thread Starter
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1300 is OK for two if they are fantastic. Hmm. Craigsub is the one making the pro10's right?

What center would be good with it? The heresy sounded quite similar in tambor.
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1300 is OK for two if they are fantastic. Hmm. Craigsub is the one making the pro10's right?

What center would be good with it? The heresy sounded quite similar in tambor.
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post #23 of 106 Old 06-05-2010, 07:03 PM
 
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1300 is OK for two if they are fantastic. Hmm. Craigsub is the one making the pro10's right?

What center would be good with it? The heresy sounded quite similar in tambor.

Another LaScala and that is where it gets expensive. Very, very hard to find a single and expensive to buy two pairs just to get three matched speakers.
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post #24 of 106 Old 06-05-2010, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't have a sound transparent screen so a la Scalas is away to big for a center channel.

I'd like a Cornwall.

The heresy sounded close after matching sound levels. No one likes the heresy?
To the Guy with he Klipsch. Could you see how close the heresys match the la Scalas vs any others you have?
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post #25 of 106 Old 06-05-2010, 08:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curt248 View Post

I don't have a sound transparent screen so a la Scalas is away to big for a center channel.

I'd like a Cornwall.

The heresy sounded close after matching sound levels. No one likes the heresy?
To the Guy with he Klipsch. Could you see how close the heresys match the la Scalas vs any others you have?

The Heresy will work well as a center channel. The Heresy was named so by Paul Klipsch because, at the time it was designed, he was totally devoted to a totally horn loaded speaker. The idea of a direct radiator was, to him, heresy. Thus, the name. It was his answer to the question: How does one find true Klipsch sound in a smaller, more affordable package. The man had a terrific sense of humor and self.

The Heresy is as close to timbre matched to La Scalas as one can find for a small price and size. You could easily run the La Scalas with a Phantom center while looking for either a Cornwall or Heresy. Keep an eye on Audiogon, as singles come up occasionally.
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post #26 of 106 Old 06-05-2010, 08:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by curt248 View Post

How about the jbl 4702x and 4722x from their pro srx series? I dfound 3 used for $1575. they are their top of the line portable speaker.

What am I missing here. The 4702x lists 600 watts power handling, 95db sensitivity and 129db max output. 95db to 129db is 34db. That is over 11 doublings of power. For a 95db speaker to output 129db you would need to feed the speaker more than 2,048 watts.
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post #27 of 106 Old 06-05-2010, 09:12 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't have a sound transparent screen so a la Scalas is away to big for a center channel.

I'd like a Cornwall.

The heresy sounded close after matching sound levels. No one likes the heresy?
To the Guy with he Klipsch. Could you see how close the heresys match the cornwalls you have?
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post #28 of 106 Old 06-05-2010, 09:27 PM - Thread Starter
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OK I'm going with the la Scalas for $1200 and the Guy is going to deliver them.

I suppose ill look hard for a Cornwall for the center.

Any other suggestions?

Thank you so much for all of the advice everyone. This has been an awesome discussion.
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post #29 of 106 Old 06-06-2010, 04:53 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mjg100 View Post

What am I missing here. The 4702x lists 600 watts power handling, 95db sensitivity and 129db max output. 95db to 129db is 34db. That is over 11 doublings of power. For a 95db speaker to output 129db you would need to feed the speaker more than 2,048 watts.

The 129 dB spec is (in all likelyhood) the max output of the compression driver. In these speakers, in terms of output, the woofer is the limiting factor in both efficiency and output.

Therefore, if one wants to play the specsmanship game, one can show 129 dB in max output (probably at 3000 Hz) for the tweeter while also having to show the sensitivity of the speaker across the bandwidth in which the woofer operated (in the case of JBL, 95 dB).
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post #30 of 106 Old 06-06-2010, 04:58 AM
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You're going to be HAPPY! I was wondering why you would even look elsewhere after you seemed so smitten when you first heard the LaScala? Glad to see that a few hundred dollars didn't stand between you and them!

I'm using the KL650's currently as my front 3 and need to buy surrounds still. I'm contemplating LaScala's or Khorns for the front and moving my KL650's to rear? Not sure though. I have a friend with Khorns, overall they are superior, but not overwhelmingly so.

Enjoy your new speakers!

The "Twinseltown" Theater
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