Infinity Cascade Tweeters - AVS Forum
Speakers > Infinity Cascade Tweeters
fookoo_2010's Avatar fookoo_2010 08:48 PM 06-19-2010
I recently acquired a pair of 9's, a 3 C, and a 15. Two of the three tweeters blew out in one of the 9's and the 3 C. They are under warranty and will be fixed. Here I had thought that speakers were almost indestructible, especially Infinity's. Anyone else have a problem with blown Cascade tweeters? The 9's were bi-wired via a Panasonic SA-BX500 A/V Receiver. How delicate are these tweeters? The first thumbnail is an intact tweeter.
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Paul Scarpelli's Avatar Paul Scarpelli 08:55 PM 06-19-2010
Tweeters are easy to blow. Just turn the volume up past 2 o'clock and see. If you turn the treble up AT ALL you are guaranteed to blow tweeters. I've always liked Infinity, and I sold them at retail over twenty years ago, but the Infinity Emit tweeter was absolutely the easiest tweeter to blow on the planet. If you listen like you have been, you'll continue to blow them. Sorry, I know it's a bummer.
fookoo_2010's Avatar fookoo_2010 10:43 AM 06-20-2010
I had one of the first EMIT's in the RS 4.5 and probably never got much past 12 o'clock. What would be a comparable rating in terms of db as this is how a lot of AVR's indicate volume or loudness?
Paul Scarpelli's Avatar Paul Scarpelli 12:01 PM 06-20-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by fookoo_2010 View Post

I had one of the first EMIT's in the RS 4.5 and probably never got much past 12 o'clock. What would be a comparable rating in terms of db as this is how a lot of AVR's indicate volume or loudness?

Gain structures in the preamp section, level of the recording, calibration of the attenuater (volume control), etc. are so random that there's no way to estimate. A hot recording could be driving the receiver into clipping at 11 o'clock, but you could play some New Age recordings at 4 o'clock and not use 50 watts. A Dream Theater CD, with oceans of cymbals and lots of synthesizer, would potentially damage a tweeter with prolonged high-volume listening. And a volume control at 12 o'clock on one receiver might have the same output as a volume control at 3 o'clock on another due to the gain structure.

The bottom line is, you'll know when you're playing it too loud. Some tweeters get a bit harsh when you're approaching their death, but others sound fine right up until when they fail. I've blown a dozen tweeters, blown up three car engines, broken three titanium bicycle frames, cracked a dozen Zildjian cymbals, and broken ten bones in my body. Some of us just break stuff.
fookoo_2010's Avatar fookoo_2010 12:22 PM 06-20-2010
I thought that you might reply like that. So I will have to treat the HT system audio like a stereo system and start the volume off low and then increase it. Thanks for your replies.
Looneybomber's Avatar Looneybomber 12:33 PM 06-20-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by fookoo_2010 View Post

Anyone else have a problem with blown Cascade tweeters?

Blown, or smashed due to someone pressing on them? Over powering a metal dome tweeter does not cause them to implode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fookoo_2010 View Post

So I will have to treat the HT system audio like a stereo system and start the volume off low and then increase it.

As opposed to starting with the volume at "11" and turning it down? Who does that?
Paul Scarpelli's Avatar Paul Scarpelli 07:26 PM 06-20-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Looneybomber View Post

As opposed to starting with the volume at "11" and turning it down? Who does that?

Nigel Tufnel.
inky blacks's Avatar inky blacks 07:42 PM 06-20-2010
That design uses an unusually low crossover point to the tweeter, so the problem may be endemic to the model.
Looneybomber's Avatar Looneybomber 07:59 PM 06-20-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by inky blacks View Post

That design uses an unusually low crossover point to the tweeter, so the problem may be endemic to the model.

I think kids fingers are endemic to tweeter damage.

Paul Scarpelli's Avatar Paul Scarpelli 08:45 PM 06-20-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Looneybomber View Post

I think kids fingers are endemic to tweeter damage.

That's clearly physical damage and not electrical damage. Pinching a tweeter doesn't usually do it a lot of good.
Knucklehead90's Avatar Knucklehead90 09:16 PM 06-20-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

That's clearly physical damage and not electrical damage. Pinching a tweeter doesn't usually do it a lot of good.

Agree - I've owned a pair of Interlude IL40s for about 9 years - they use the same tweeter as whats in the Cascades - and a 5.0 Beta setup using the same tweeter - and I now have the Cascade 5.1 setup. I've played all of them LOUD and they play loud very well - that damage was done by fingers not by over driving them.

As soon as HK gets a look at them they likely will be sent back in the same condition as sent.

Note that the 'grilles' on the Cascade model speakers isn't what you might think of when thinking about grilles. It is a thin fabric stretched over the face of the speaker and held in place by magnets which are adjusted to pull the cloth cover tight. This leaves a gap between the face and cloth that would trigger curiosity in owners of small fingers - fingers that would have no problem getting in there and doing the damage pictured. Looks like an investigation is in order.
fookoo_2010's Avatar fookoo_2010 11:40 PM 06-20-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knucklehead90 View Post

Agree - I've owned a pair of Interlude IL40s for about 9 years - they use the same tweeter as whats in the Cascades - and a 5.0 Beta setup using the same tweeter - and I now have the Cascade 5.1 setup. I've played all of them LOUD and they play loud very well - that damage was done by fingers not by over driving them.

As soon as HK gets a look at them they likely will be sent back in the same condition as sent.

Note that the 'grilles' on the Cascade model speakers isn't what you might think of when thinking about grilles. It is a thin fabric stretched over the face of the speaker and held in place by magnets which are adjusted to pull the cloth cover tight. This leaves a gap between the face and cloth that would trigger curiosity in owners of small fingers - fingers that would have no problem getting in there and doing the damage pictured. Looks like an investigation is in order.

The damage to the tweeters was not the result of some kid pinching them because there are none around here and that is a repost of my picture and it is electrical damage because I never touched the tweeters with anything. The Cascade 9's and the 3 C performed fine for about four weeks with no problem. As to HK returning them un-repaired, you obviously don't understand the repair process. It is either taken to an authorized repair place or sent there - if you are really curious see the authorized Infinity repair sites on the Infinity website.
Looneybomber's Avatar Looneybomber 06:15 AM 06-21-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by fookoo_2010 View Post

The damage to the tweeters was not the result of some kid pinching them because there are none around here and that is a repost of my picture and it is electrical damage because I never touched the tweeters with anything.

And allow me to quote myself from earlier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Looneybomber View Post

Blown, or smashed due to someone pressing on them? Over powering a metal dome tweeter does not cause them to implode.

I've blown a few speaker drivers while playing with amps much too powerful (crown CE4000) and even caught one on fire. I repeat, hard domed tweeters do not implode when "blown". Someone/something poked them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fookoo_2010 View Post

As to HK returning them un-repaired, you obviously don't understand the repair process. It is either taken to an authorized repair place or sent there - if you are really curious see the authorized Infinity repair sites on the Infinity website.

What Knuckle is saying is when HK sees that the tweeters are damaged physically, and of no fault to their design, they will not repair them under warranty. It's like hitting a deer in your car and claiming the smashed front end was due to a flaulty bumper.
Paul Scarpelli's Avatar Paul Scarpelli 06:18 AM 06-21-2010
Why is the dust button physically crushed on the tweeter? It's directly connected to the voice coil, and once out of round, a voice coil will usually fail.
cdy2179's Avatar cdy2179 06:53 AM 06-21-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

I've blown a dozen tweeters, blown up three car engines, broken three titanium bicycle frames, cracked a dozen Zildjian cymbals, and broken ten bones in my body. Some of us just break stuff.

Damn Paul...maybe you should just stay in bed!
Knucklehead90's Avatar Knucklehead90 08:07 AM 06-21-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli
I've blown a dozen tweeters, blown up three car engines, broken three titanium bicycle frames, cracked a dozen Zildjian cymbals, and broken ten bones in my body. Some of us just break stuff.

Damn Paul...maybe you should just stay in bed!

==============================

And I know people who could break a crow bar in a sand box.

I've had a couple of tweeters blow on me too - and never seen physical damage. This was on a pair of JBL speakers (thanks to my son) with titanium dome tweeters. The tweeters looked just fine from the outside - electrically they were toast.
fookoo_2010's Avatar fookoo_2010 07:59 AM 08-20-2010
Pretty frustrating, the authorized repair shop says that getting a hold of the tweeters has been a problem, especially having to deal with India tech support.
fookoo_2010's Avatar fookoo_2010 08:26 PM 10-31-2010
After four months plus, two tweeters were finally replaced by Infinity through an authorized local repair shop. The tweeters apparently were out of stock until just recently. Then there was the repair tech's problem of how to actually get into the speaker to replace the blown tweeters. The front metal open plate housing the three drivers had to be broken out, literally, and then was replaced by a grey plastic housing - nothing simple like a couple of screws. The original housing was metal and the replacement housing is no longer magnetic and will not hold up the supplied drape/curtain. Hence, the use of black electrical tape. Not exactly a thrilling repair, courtesy of Infinity. In spite of this, I like the sound of the Cascade Nines in a home theater system.
Knucklehead90's Avatar Knucklehead90 10:49 PM 10-31-2010
They are a very good sounding speaker --- I remain unimpressed with the 'grille' - they are more of an afterthought.
Hopefully I won't have any problems with my Cascades - but I do have over 4 years of warranty left. I use a pair of Three Vs in the bedroom in a 2 channel setup with a sub - and a pair of Fives for surrounds to accompany the 3 Interlude fronts.

Good luck with the rebuilt Nines.
fookoo_2010's Avatar fookoo_2010 11:36 PM 10-31-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knucklehead90 View Post

They are a very good sounding speaker --- I remain unimpressed with the 'grille' - they are more of an afterthought.
Hopefully I won't have any problems with my Cascades - but I do have over 4 years of warranty left. I use a pair of Three Vs in the bedroom in a 2 channel setup with a sub - and a pair of Fives for surrounds to accompany the 3 Interlude fronts.

Good luck with the rebuilt Nines.

As long as you don't over drive them into distortion, you should have no problem because that is what happened to me. I now sit amidst a 9.2 home theater system powered with a Denon 4311CI, a Cascade 3C Center speaker, 8 Cascade 9s, and 2 Cascade 15s. Now that is flying!!
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