TCA Pro 10 Thread - Page 64 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1891 of 1916 Old 01-31-2011, 03:57 PM
Advanced Member
 
dondino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 629
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Sorry if I missed this somewhere but any idea what Craig has in store for us, so to speak? Frankly, I care less if there are minor blemishes, I'm all about SQ. Hell, my DTS-10 is in the rear of my listening area STILL unfinished.

Don

ala Yoda...

"Tweeters". Heh! "Treble". Heh! A basshead craves not these things! ...
dondino is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1892 of 1916 Old 01-31-2011, 04:15 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Brad Horstkotte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 5,116
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 55
One thing I recall from the CHT site is they have a new run of cabinets for the PRO-10s / SHO-10s, which has a slot port at the bottom, instead of two circular ports in the middle - to get the horn and woofer closer together. New finishes too, and nicer looking (metal) grills. A tower configuration with 2x10s is also being considered.

Some changes to the subs, but I forget the details.
Brad Horstkotte is offline  
post #1893 of 1916 Old 02-26-2011, 01:13 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ack_bk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Posts: 8,787
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 98
Just finished reading this entire thread from start to finish. I am pretty sure either PRO or SHO-10's will be my main speakers in the near future (these will be placed behind a 120" AT screen). I am currently running SVS SCS-01 speakers as my main speakers and have been happy with them. But through some discourse with Penngray and reading MKTheater's posts I started to get intrigued by the idea of high SPL speakers that can play cleanly at reference levels. I had previously associated high SPL with some Klipsch speakers that I demoed and felt were a little to harsh for my liking.

So I patiently awaiting the next shipment of SHO or PRO (leaning towards SHO-10's) and am continuing my home theater build. I have an eD A2-300 sub and plan on adding a second as well.

In the past couple years I have demoed many speakers (Klipsch RF 61 bookshelves, Synergy line, SVS, Polk rTI8's (owned them), DefTech, RBH (owned several pairs), Ascend, B&W, PSB, etc. So I am excited to try something different and see how they compare.

I have always appreciated Craig's contributions to the forum and look forward to being a customer.
ack_bk is offline  
post #1894 of 1916 Old 04-08-2011, 03:07 PM
Member
 
snurf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 132
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I only heard about these speakers yesterday and I've got to say I'm intrigued. Couple of questions:

Would it be ok to place the SHO-10s upside down? I've got 2 DTS10s that will go behind my AT screen. The LCRs have to sit on top of them, so I'd like to get the tweeter as low as possible.

I saw some stuff about a SHO-6. What are the dimensions for that? What's the estimated ETA? I'd love to use them as surrounds, but my room is not that wide so i need shallow speakers.

Thanks all!
snurf is offline  
post #1895 of 1916 Old 04-08-2011, 03:15 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Brad Horstkotte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 5,116
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by snurf View Post

I only heard about these speakers yesterday and I've got to say I'm intrigued. Couple of questions:

Would it be ok to place the SHO-10s upside down? I've got 2 DTS10s that will go behind my AT screen. The LCRs have to sit on top of them, so I'd like to get the tweeter as low as possible.

I saw some stuff about a SHO-6. What are the dimensions for that? What's the estimated ETA? I'd love to use them as surrounds, but my room is not that wide so i need shallow speakers.

Thanks all!

Upside down is fine.

Not sure on the SHO-6 dimensions or timeline - not out yet - check the SHT forums, there are a couple threads that discuss them, and HuskerOmaha has a pair (prototype), maybe he'll chime in. I do seem to recall that the depth isn't much shallower than the SHO-10s though.
Brad Horstkotte is offline  
post #1896 of 1916 Old 04-09-2011, 07:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Eyleron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Minot, ND
Posts: 1,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 34
This is on the top of my list for a sensitive speaker that can provide high spl evenly from bass to treble.

I'm looking for $ 300 per speaker or cheaper alternatives too... What are other players in this field? I'm afraid reference line of klipsch won't keep up the bass when pushed.
Eyleron is offline  
post #1897 of 1916 Old 04-09-2011, 07:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
spdntrxi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Pleasanton,Ca
Posts: 1,462
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyleron View Post
This is on the top of my list for a sensitive speaker that can provide high spl evenly from bass to treble.

I'm looking for $ 300 per speaker or cheaper alternatives too... What are other players in this field? I'm afraid reference line of klipsch won't keep up the bass when pushed.
you going to need a sub.. CHT or Klipsch anyways ???

Johnny
Klipsch,Denon,Parasound,Sunfire
spdntrxi is offline  
post #1898 of 1916 Old 04-09-2011, 08:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Brad Horstkotte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 5,116
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 55
I'd check out the Hsu bookshelves too, fairly sensitive 91 or 92 I believe, and quite a nice value.
Brad Horstkotte is offline  
post #1899 of 1916 Old 04-09-2011, 08:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Eyleron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Minot, ND
Posts: 1,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Yes, of course a sub. By "bass" I meant below 500 hz that the front speakers need to handle @ high spl.

How about speakers @ > 94 spl ?
Eyleron is offline  
post #1900 of 1916 Old 04-09-2011, 08:57 PM
 
floridapoolboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: florida
Posts: 3,482
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyleron View Post
This is on the top of my list for a sensitive speaker that can provide high spl evenly from bass to treble.

I'm looking for $ 300 per speaker or cheaper alternatives too... What are other players in this field? I'm afraid reference line of klipsch won't keep up the bass when pushed.
The Klipsch RB-81 II offers the same sensitivity, better bass response, and is actually less expensive than the Sho-10 when you factor in grills and shipping. The 72hz Sho-10 cutoff makes a sub mandatory, and is high enough that the crossover may have to be set above the standard 80hz for proper blending. http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...-rb81-ii-black
floridapoolboy is offline  
post #1901 of 1916 Old 04-09-2011, 09:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,375
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridapoolboy

The Klipsch RB-81 II offers the same sensitivity, better bass response, and is actually less expensive than the Sho-10 when you factor in grills and shipping. The 72hz Sho-10 cutoff makes a sub mandatory, and is high enough that the crossover may have to be set above the standard 80hz for proper blending. http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...-rb81-ii-black
Are you implying a sub isn't mandatory for the klipsch?

JTR Noesis 212HT x 3 (LCR) powered by Lab Gruppen 10000Q amp
CHT SHO-10 x 4 (sides and rear) powered by Denon 4311
JTR S2 x 2
CHT 18.1 x2
Oppo BDP103D bluray player/Sonos/PS3
Gooddoc is offline  
post #1902 of 1916 Old 04-10-2011, 04:47 AM
Senior Member
 
Matman1970's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

Are you implying a sub isn't mandatory for the klipsch?


The Klipsch RB-81 II's were actually one of my finalists when looking for high sensitivity speakers. Their specs do say 44HZ to 24KHZ. If there was no way to get a sub in the mix I would have went with them since the SHO's are designed to go with a sub. How much good bass the Klipsch would give running full range would be (very)open to debate. That said, if there is a sub involved, I would consider the SHO, since it was designed to specialize in its FQ range with its 10" driver VS the RB-81 8" driver that was designed to cover a greater bandwidth. The new SHO-10's do seem to play nicer with crossover frequency regarding room correction programs. The SHO's also break in after some use which seems to mitigate the "out of the box" crossover suggestions from software seen by some owners of the older models.

I must admit I do like that polished gold look of the RB-81 driver.

The HSU's look good as well, but use a conventional tweeter. If you want high volume performance, I would consider both the RB-81's and SHO's over them.

__________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by jagzjagz
Holy smokes. A simple question turned into a buck wild display of thoughts, gazillion graphs, multiple interpretations, philosophies, and overall mayhem!!
Matman1970 is offline  
post #1903 of 1916 Old 04-10-2011, 05:10 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,375
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matman1970 View Post


The Klipsch RB-81 II's were actually one of my finalists when looking for high sensitivity speakers. Their specs do say 44HZ to 24KHZ. If there was no way to get a sub in the mix I would have went with them since the SHO's are designed to go with a sub. How much good bass the Klipsch would give running full range would be (very)open to debate. That said, if there is a sub involved, I would consider the SHO, since it was designed to specialize in its FQ range with its 10" driver VS the RB-81 8" driver that was designed to cover a greater bandwidth. The new SHO-10's do seem to play nicer with crossover frequency regarding room correction programs. The SHO's also break in after some use which seems to mitigate the "out of the box" crossover suggestions from software seen by some owners of the older models.

I must admit I do like that polished gold look of the RB-81 driver.

The HSU's look good as well, but use a conventional tweeter. If you want high volume performance, I would consider both the RB-81's and SHO's over them.

For music the Klipsch could get away without a sub if necessary. A sub would be mandatory for HT IMO.
Nothing wrong with Klipsch. I have heard many Klipsch speakers I wasn't fond of, but I know that sound is not typical of all Klipsch speakers, particularly the Pro models.

JTR Noesis 212HT x 3 (LCR) powered by Lab Gruppen 10000Q amp
CHT SHO-10 x 4 (sides and rear) powered by Denon 4311
JTR S2 x 2
CHT 18.1 x2
Oppo BDP103D bluray player/Sonos/PS3
Gooddoc is offline  
post #1904 of 1916 Old 04-10-2011, 08:11 AM
 
floridapoolboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: florida
Posts: 3,482
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

Are you implying a sub isn't mandatory for the klipsch?

For music, no. For HT everyone needs a good sub or two...or four! The woofer in the Sho is limited in extension, which can lead to issues when combining it with a sub. The F3 of a speaker can be as much as 6db down due to the plus or minus method of measurement. This can result in a lack of midbass if the sub is crossed too low, or sub localization if crossed too high. Audyssey and other software will choose a crossover based on test tone measurements, and if a number greater than 80hz results it can be a concern. Many believe a good rule of thumb is to set the crossover to approximately double the speaker F3, to help achieve the smoothest blend.
floridapoolboy is offline  
post #1905 of 1916 Old 04-10-2011, 08:26 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ack_bk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Posts: 8,787
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

For music the Klipsch could get away without a sub if necessary. A sub would be mandatory for HT IMO.
Nothing wrong with Klipsch. I have heard many Klipsch speakers I wasn't fond of, but I know that sound is not typical of all Klipsch speakers, particularly the Pro models.

The only Klipsch speakers I have ever really liked were the THX line. Those don't seem to play as harsh to me.
ack_bk is offline  
post #1906 of 1916 Old 04-10-2011, 08:30 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ack_bk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Posts: 8,787
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matman1970 View Post

The Klipsch RB-81 II's were actually one of my finalists when looking for high sensitivity speakers. Their specs do say 44HZ to 24KHZ. If there was no way to get a sub in the mix I would have went with them since the SHO's are designed to go with a sub. How much good bass the Klipsch would give running full range would be (very)open to debate. That said, if there is a sub involved, I would consider the SHO, since it was designed to specialize in its FQ range with its 10" driver VS the RB-81 8" driver that was designed to cover a greater bandwidth. The new SHO-10's do seem to play nicer with crossover frequency regarding room correction programs. The SHO's also break in after some use which seems to mitigate the "out of the box" crossover suggestions from software seen by some owners of the older models.

I must admit I do like that polished gold look of the RB-81 driver.

The HSU's look good as well, but use a conventional tweeter. If you want high volume performance, I would consider both the RB-81's and SHO's over them.

Give the RB-81's a good long listen. I just was not impressed with the sound. And I would not 100% rely on specs from any speaker manufacturer either, so they may be rated down to 44HZ, but is that realistic? For me, any bookshelf speaker needs a subwoofer if you are talking home theater.
ack_bk is offline  
post #1907 of 1916 Old 04-10-2011, 10:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Eyleron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Minot, ND
Posts: 1,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 34
The HSUs sound intriguing for a low 90s speaker, in league with better Paradigms, Axioms, Ascend.

I too wish the extension was a little lower, like 60 hz. But I understand that can be one of the tradeoffs for high sensitivity. That suggests that as many have been saying lately, competitors' 6 and 8 inch drivers cannot output the same 115 db spl as their horns can. They're efficient enough for, say, a tube amp application but not for clean high spl for theaters.
Eyleron is offline  
post #1908 of 1916 Old 04-10-2011, 10:22 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Brad Horstkotte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 5,116
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 55
I demo'd them at Hsu (they're local to me), and they held up well, I think they had them to about -5 db, didn't notice any significant distortion / compression - can they do the same at reference, no idea.
Brad Horstkotte is offline  
post #1909 of 1916 Old 04-10-2011, 10:31 AM
Member
 
Oldfart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Posts: 186
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
In case you missed it, Craig had this to aay about the new slot ported PRO/SHO-10s": " The crossover is the same. The new venting does a better job of extending the response curve in a flat enough manner to make Audyssey happy."

Alan
Oldfart is offline  
post #1910 of 1916 Old 04-10-2011, 10:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tony123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Upstate, South Carolina
Posts: 4,992
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

The only Klipsch speakers I have ever really liked were the THX line. Those don't seem to play as harsh to me.

Sorry....off topic, but this is an overused catch phrase in my opinion. Klipsch (and most horn speakers, including the Chase products) are revealing and penetrating. Two traits that are pluses in my mind.

I'm wondering how many that make these comments have heard them in a properly treated room with EQ? Because I do agree that they "expose" things that other speakers might not in a lesser environment. I've owned the THX line, the Reference line and now the Heritage line. All three sound different and required different room and EQ applications. And now back to your regular program....

The "Twinseltown" Theater
Construction Thread
tony123 is offline  
post #1911 of 1916 Old 05-30-2011, 11:06 AM
AVS Special Member
 
goonstopher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NJ near NYC
Posts: 4,169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
What happened to this thread?

Is there a new owners thread???

Did the mid-bass concerns ever get answered? The comparison I heard to the jbl 8340 (which are anemic themselves) was not positive in the mid bass.
goonstopher is offline  
post #1912 of 1916 Old 05-30-2011, 01:38 PM
Member
 
f1nels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: ONTARIO
Posts: 156
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony123 View Post

Sorry....off topic, but this is an overused catch phrase in my opinion. Klipsch (and most horn speakers, including the Chase products) are revealing and penetrating. Two traits that are pluses in my mind.

I'm wondering how many that make these comments have heard them in a properly treated room with EQ? Because I do agree that they "expose" things that other speakers might not in a lesser environment. I've owned the THX line, the Reference line and now the Heritage line. All three sound different and required different room and EQ applications. And now back to your regular program....

My previous speakers did tend to get harsh at volume. The SHO10s are in no way a harsh speaker. These can play much cleaner at volume than my previous speakers and have opened my eyes/ears to this type of Compression Driver/High Effeciency Pro driver design. Can't afford the Gedlee's but IMHO SHO10s are excellent home cinema speakers and pretty decent for audio too.
f1nels is offline  
post #1913 of 1916 Old 06-02-2011, 03:06 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Eyleron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Minot, ND
Posts: 1,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony123 View Post


Sorry....off topic, but this is an overused catch phrase in my opinion. Klipsch (and most horn speakers, including the Chase products) are revealing and penetrating. Two traits that are pluses in my mind.

I'm wondering how many that make these comments have heard them in a properly treated room with EQ? Because I do agree that they "expose" things that other speakers might not in a lesser environment. I've owned the THX line, the Reference line and now the Heritage line. All three sound different and required different room and EQ applications. And now back to your regular program....

Likewise words like "revealing" and "expose" are overused and euphemistic.

I think we could agree that if we cranked the treble knob waaay up, any scratches hiss static etc. would be accentuated. Would it be appropriate to call that "revealing"? Maybe, but I think more in the sense of staining a slide to reveal cells viewed in a microscope that were previously hidden. Artificial though, for sure.

Seems like with these subjective words it'd be helpful to know the context. Like, someone says "revealing" about a speaker, but we see a frequency response graph shows the speaker DOES have an exaggerated treble. I would conclude that the listener either likes treble higher because of the more edgy, emphasized sibilance and aggressive cymbals etc. Or has tinnitus (all too common) which occludes treble details and so needs more to hear the details. Or has a more rolled off hearing response for high frequencies (also all too common), and again needs more treble to even GET to something like a flat response.

And same listener in untreated room might say, too much...harsh!

Different listener, accustomed to old school tube amps that were DOWN in treble, might call everything with a flat response "grating." And everything rolled off as "warm" and "accurate."

Maybe all of these subjective words are useless until the readers know:
The listener's ability to playback as the sound producer intended (room treatment, echoes, amplification, setup, etc.)
And (my point here) the the DESIRE to play back as sound producer intended (psychological, medical, accustomed tastes, etc.).

I guess hence the common advice to educate the ears and brain, and to audition speakers in your own environment.
Eyleron is offline  
post #1914 of 1916 Old 06-02-2011, 07:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Dbuudo07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,750
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post
What happened to this thread?

Is there a new owners thread???

Did the mid-bass concerns ever get answered? The comparison I heard to the jbl 8340 (which are anemic themselves) was not positive in the mid bass.
+1 I'm going to pull the trigger on a pair of speakers for my new apartment soon, and the Sho-10 is at the top of my two choices because of the price to performance ratio. However, if the midbass is poor, that would have me think twice.

David Budo
Dbuudo07 is offline  
post #1915 of 1916 Old 06-02-2011, 08:10 AM
Senior Member
 
Matman1970's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post
What happened to this thread?

Is there a new owners thread???

Did the mid-bass concerns ever get answered? The comparison I heard to the jbl 8340 (which are anemic themselves) was not positive in the mid bass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbuudo07 View Post
+1 I'm going to pull the trigger on a pair of speakers for my new apartment soon, and the Sho-10 is at the top of my two choices because of the price to performance ratio. However, if the midbass is poor, that would have me think twice.
This is the owners thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1321032

The SHO-10s I got for my Dad sound fine in the midbass region. They are designed, however, to work with a subwoofer. There were some issues with room correction software setting the SHO's higher than 80hz when fresh out of the box. Once broken in, the recommended crossover usually settles to 70 to 80hz. This is for the old port designs. The new designs with the slot vent seems to have alleviated this issue from what I have heard but I am not sure who owns the newer models besides OldFart. There are picts of the new design on the thread referenced above.

__________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by jagzjagz
Holy smokes. A simple question turned into a buck wild display of thoughts, gazillion graphs, multiple interpretations, philosophies, and overall mayhem!!
Matman1970 is offline  
post #1916 of 1916 Old 06-02-2011, 08:20 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Dbuudo07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,750
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 103
Thanks Matman1970.

David Budo
Dbuudo07 is offline  
Reply Speakers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off