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post #1 of 31 Old 08-23-2010, 02:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I am ordering Monoprice speaker cable. Since I just ordered 5 rc-30s, I feel kinda cheap going for 16g. My living room size is about 20x20 ( not installing in the walls).

If I get 12g wires vs the 16g wires, will I notice better sound quality?
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post #2 of 31 Old 08-23-2010, 02:14 PM
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Use the 12awg, 16awg is just too small.

Just bought more Monoprice 12 myself. 87 strands of goodness.

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post #3 of 31 Old 08-23-2010, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yeah. I previously had small Klipsch speakers, and even then I thought the speaker wire was hella thin. I definitely would feel stupid to use such thin speaker wire on such good speakers hah.
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post #4 of 31 Old 08-23-2010, 02:52 PM
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You will get a little more volume out of a larger wire for the same position on the dial because the resistance is lower. But if the the wire is large enough to begin with, you won't head a difference in the quality of the sound. Depends mainly on your speaker impedance and how long the run is. 16 AWG is generally large enough up to almost 50' with an 8 ohm load, half that with a 4 ohm load.
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post #5 of 31 Old 08-23-2010, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XxHoosierdaddy View Post

If I get 12g wires vs the 16g wires, will I notice better sound quality?

No, you are just increasing your cost.
(unless you plan to play the speakers very very very loud and run the wires around your room several times)

Just my two cents as an electrical engineer.
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post #6 of 31 Old 08-23-2010, 04:24 PM
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I suspect you would hear no difference but will feel better about it.

I also suspect the (absolute and difference in) resistive loss is in the mud for the lengths you are likely to use.

Lower resistance helps the amplifier better control the speaker, theoretically translating to better sound.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #7 of 31 Old 08-23-2010, 05:49 PM
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If you were powering a FR speaker, like a Lowther(sp.?), or Fostex, go for it,...16 awg would be fine.

But a typical multiway speaker, I would not use 50 feet of 16awg. At a certain power, and at some frequencies, the wire would approach the point of being a sigificant element relating to the specific design criteria of the passive crossover.

Point being, IMO, 50' @ 16awg, not the best decision one could make.

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post #8 of 31 Old 08-24-2010, 03:45 AM
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Not the worst decision someone could make, either. A tiny difference in any case. Where and how the speaker is placed will matter about 100-1000x more than this issue.
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post #9 of 31 Old 08-24-2010, 08:06 AM
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http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

Check out the wire length chart.
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post #10 of 31 Old 08-24-2010, 08:07 AM
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You're smaller gauge will be fine. However, if you plan to upgrade to more power in the future or use a 4 ohm speaker, then if you buy 12 GA off the bat you don't have to worry about buying a thicker gauge later.

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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post #11 of 31 Old 08-24-2010, 09:29 AM
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If someone had 16awg in a low powered system, I'd not tell them to upgrade. However, someone initially buying cable for the same system, no question, 12awg.

12awg has about 2.5 times the amount of current capability compared to the 16awg

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post #12 of 31 Old 08-24-2010, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XxHoosierdaddy View Post

I am ordering Monoprice speaker cable. Since I just ordered 5 rc-30s, I feel kinda cheap going for 16g. My living room size is about 20x20 ( not installing in the walls).

If I get 12g wires vs the 16g wires, will I notice better sound quality?

No
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post #13 of 31 Old 08-24-2010, 12:30 PM
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12 gauge is manly. 10 gauge is even more manly. You're a man. You shave. You don't exfoliate. Be a man.

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #14 of 31 Old 08-24-2010, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samsurd2 View Post

No

Depends on the length of the cable actually

Even .5 ohm of added resistance can change the frequency and a 16AWG running more then 25 feet will have more resistance, the audiability of this resistance depends on the speaker impedance curve.

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post #15 of 31 Old 08-24-2010, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Depends on the length of the cable actually

Even .5 ohm of added resistance can change the frequency and a 16AWG running more then 25 feet will have more resistance, the audiability of this resistance depends on the speaker impedance curve.

Please explain how .5 ohm of resistance will change the frequency and what frequency are you talking about?

To my knowledge all .5 ohm of speaker wire resistance will change is the fact that a marginally greater amount of power will be required to achieve the same speaker volume as compared to no speaker wire resistance. This is only a factor if you will be approaching volumes that are near the limit of your source amplifier.

Also, 25 feet of 16awg wire is unlikely to have a .5 Ohm resistance. It is more likely to be about 0.1-0.2 Ohm. (http://www.epanorama.net/documents/w...esistance.html).
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post #16 of 31 Old 08-24-2010, 03:16 PM
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It depends on the impedance plot of the speaker. If it contains any big dip, whereby large currents are required, the speaker cable's characteristics become significant, relative to a very low impedance trough.

Using static analysis, 16awg appears ok, however dynamic analysis show us that there may be frequency dependant I squared R losses, where the currents are radically different across the spectrum,...thus voltage drops or losses spring up.... hence the cable becomes a bigger part of the equation relative to the other insertion losses and reactances.

Sorry that's a little sloppy in a hurry.

------------------------------------
Flat, Deep, Clean, Linear, and Loud
------------------------------------
Active 16.8kw, 7.3 system
(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
(2)Seaton SubM-HP, (4)18" IB
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post #17 of 31 Old 08-24-2010, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackzarg View Post

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

Check out the wire length chart.

That is one awesome link.

Why wattage does not matter.

(Disclaimer goes here)
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post #18 of 31 Old 08-24-2010, 06:13 PM
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It's cheap enough from monoprice... Buy 12 AWG.

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post #19 of 31 Old 08-24-2010, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

12 gauge is manly. 10 gauge is even more manly. You're a man. You shave. You don't exfoliate. Be a man.

I'm with this guy, buy the 10 gauge from blue jeans and it's miller time

9G KURO equipped.
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post #20 of 31 Old 08-24-2010, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackzarg View Post

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

Check out the wire length chart.

+1 (2?) - was just about to post it
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post #21 of 31 Old 08-25-2010, 06:36 AM
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Discovered Roger Russell some time ago and there is no better read than his time at Mc, and the way things change throughout his time. Truly a fascinating read.

The speaker cable stuff is good material, but the phenomenal story, every detail recalled, is a great insight through the 70s, 80s and 90s. This should be classic, mandatory Peter Principle reading.

I'm not exaggerating this two part article, I couldn't stop reading it. When I first discovered it, I told everybody I could about it. It's a great example of mgmt. backing off, giving an engineer every resource they need with no pressure, then it's illustrative of mis-guided high pressure, and the results one achieves via that route.

Part 1 http://www.roger-russell.com/lsd1.htm
Part 2 http://www.roger-russell.com/lsd2.htm

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post #22 of 31 Old 08-25-2010, 07:19 AM
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I use slag from spent arc welding rods for speaker wire. Works well enough.
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post #23 of 31 Old 08-25-2010, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

12 gauge is manly. 10 gauge is even more manly. You're a man. You shave. You don't exfoliate. Be a man.

Chicks dig men with 10 gauge wire!

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post #24 of 31 Old 08-25-2010, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XxHoosierdaddy View Post

I am ordering Monoprice speaker cable. Since I just ordered 5 rc-30s, I feel kinda cheap going for 16g. My living room size is about 20x20 ( not installing in the walls).

If I get 12g wires vs the 16g wires, will I notice better sound quality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Depends on the length of the cable actually

Even .5 ohm of added resistance can change the frequency and a 16AWG running more then 25 feet will have more resistance, the audiability of this resistance depends on the speaker impedance curve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ejhayes76 View Post

Please explain how .5 ohm of resistance will change the frequency and what frequency are you talking about?

To my knowledge all .5 ohm of speaker wire resistance will change is the fact that a marginally greater amount of power will be required to achieve the same speaker volume as compared to no speaker wire resistance. This is only a factor if you will be approaching volumes that are near the limit of your source amplifier.

Also, 25 feet of 16awg wire is unlikely to have a .5 Ohm resistance. It is more likely to be about 0.1-0.2 Ohm. (http://www.epanorama.net/documents/w...esistance.html).

Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

It depends on the impedance plot of the speaker. If it contains any big dip, whereby large currents are required, the speaker cable's characteristics become significant, relative to a very low impedance trough.

Using static analysis, 16awg appears ok, however dynamic analysis show us that there may be frequency dependant I squared R losses, where the currents are radically different across the spectrum,...thus voltage drops or losses spring up.... hence the cable becomes a bigger part of the equation relative to the other insertion losses and reactances.

Sorry that's a little sloppy in a hurry.

I'm sorry but the original question involves a 20x20 room and whether better sound quality results from using 12g vs. 16g wire. IOW, is there going to be an audible difference? I stand by my original answer - to wit, "No"
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post #25 of 31 Old 08-25-2010, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samsurd2 View Post

I'm sorry but the original question involves a 20x20 room and whether better sound quality results from using 12g vs. 16g wire. IOW, is there going to be an audible difference? I stand by my original answer - to wit, "No"

No = static analysis, Yes = dynamic analysis



and for additional perspective;
Swap out for that system, no........Buy new for that system, yes

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------------------------------------
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(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
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post #26 of 31 Old 08-25-2010, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samsurd2 View Post

I'm sorry but the original question involves a 20x20 room and whether better sound quality results from using 12g vs. 16g wire. IOW, is there going to be an audible difference? I stand by my original answer - to wit, "No"

He could potentially have > 40ft of speaker wire to one speaker in that room (running it through attics (My room has 12' ceiling and my attic has another 8 feet that I run speaker wire high over trusses, 20 feet alone vertical on each side, my speaker wire distance for surrounds is about 60 feet!!) so its not that simple. Really, no one knows until the actually speaker wire distance used is posted for each speaker.

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post #27 of 31 Old 08-28-2010, 08:20 AM
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Ummm.... Just a thought, but wouldn't 14 gauge be the most appropriate gauge for lengths he will probably be using?
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post #28 of 31 Old 08-28-2010, 08:29 AM
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the price difference is so small you really should just go with 12 however, don't get sucked into buying SUPER expensive speaker wires (as many do) as they will not make a lick of difference sonically
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post #29 of 31 Old 12-11-2011, 10:49 PM
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I'm no audio engineer but I did undertake
a little project involving having far too much
speaker cable for the small room in which
I have my computer/studio. The silver
copper wires are revealed by a clear plastic
sleeve and the metal itself looks to be 2mm.
It occured to me that doubling the connection
would be possible with the extra; and having
seen thicker cable at high prices it seems
like a no brainer. I like a small audio
project when sound quality is involved so I
found myself realising a quad-wire arrangement
(having seperated the copper from silver along
the cable length. This made it quite easy to
seperate the strands of each of four and then
wind them tightly together for maximum surface
contact. I didn't bother to bunch the four seperate
silver cables and four seperate copper cables
because it makes no electrical difference and
looks ok!
Making the wires quad definitely gave the
speakers a whole new frequency
range to work with and better volume
it made a poor sound into
a good sound. That is why I believe thicker
cable is a good way to go - but start off
with something inexpensive but substantial
and you'll be pretty impressed for probably
around $10. Do it!
My components are a Memorex Microsystem
(2004 worth $80 retail); Sanyo SS 1291
50 Watt floor speakers (bought from goodwill for $5.50
each!). They have an 8" woofer; 4 inch mid
and 3" tweeter. It really is a laughably awful
hi fi set-up and yet the speaker cable upgrade made
it acceptable and really quite dynamic. Bottom
line don't scrimp and get doorbell wiring for a
even a really bad stereo. Its one area where
improvement costs almost no money. Mind
you I had a job getting these bad boys into
the back of that microsystem (eventually
removed the springclip holders and applied
a heated dart tip to the hole to melt it larger)
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post #30 of 31 Old 12-12-2011, 03:55 AM
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Why did you keep hitting return so much?

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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