The Downfall Of Bose... - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 419 Old 04-27-2013, 07:11 AM
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A friend of mine that used to work in an Audio/Video specialty store years ago once told me that Bose spends more advertising dollars than all other speaker companies combined. Do you have any idea how many speaker companies there are? Hundreds! At the same time they spend next to nothing on R&D and the actual manufacturing of their products. It's a really cheap crappy quality product with a huge markup and their whole program is designed to brainwash people into believing there spending $ for quality gear, and laughing all the way to the bank when these lemmings walk over the cliff in herds. I work with a guy that's been suckered in more than once and bought Bose systems. I have to bite my tongue when he talks about them. My position is if somebody is in the market to purchase and mentions Bose, I educate them away from going down that path. If they've already drank the Kool-Aid and bought, I say nothing.
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post #362 of 419 Old 04-27-2013, 10:33 AM
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Well I liked and owned the first and second Acoustic Wave Music system. The first one with the tape player. Then when Compact Disk came out. They made a cd version too. Both was analog with EQ (bass,mid,treble). Now after over two decades of owning these antiques. I decided to traded up my old cd version to the newest generation AW. Damn, what a mistake. At first they said they'll take $500 for my old Wave to trade up for the new one. I thought wow what a deal. So I got the new one without even auditioning it. New one now is all digital. No EQ. And can't even use my old Bose mic that I've used with my older AW. Or any type of mic for that sake. Talk about cutting corners.
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post #363 of 419 Old 04-27-2013, 10:54 AM
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Who cares? rolleyes.gif

I just thought it was an interesting discussion. I like good debates...


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post #364 of 419 Old 04-28-2013, 04:08 AM
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Saw this thread and decided to participate and offer my views about Bose.

I am a sales person at a major electronics store of German origin. When I first began to work there (now some 10 years ago), I was astonished the shop carried Bose. I knew the company from the eighties, and I thought they were long out of business because back then (when I wanted to purchase my first stereo kit), I rapidly discarded them from my list (too expensive for what it was - and that was now 30 years earlier.) Since I was going to sell these things, I listened to some Bose stuff with an open mind and an open ear, and I have to say that when I first heard a 3-2-1 system I was quite impressed. I soon learned however that digging a little deeper, all things Bose fall apart in a sonic way. Since then I have a love-hate relation ship with the company, and it always kinda saddens me if I sell a Bose to someone, as I know that there is a lot better to be had for the price the customer pays. Still now, I can't get it into my heart to sell a Bose to someone I like. OTOH, my employer earns a lot of money on the Bose systems and since he is the one who signs my pay checks (well you can easily fill in the dots...) To put things into perspective, the average margin on all things hifi will be around 10% these days, while on a LifeStyle system it is more than double that.

It is already said how Bose tries to sell things to the people (aggressive marketing, requiring its own space in the shop, etc.) This is all true, but what has not been said is following:
1/ there was a consumer report here in Holland (I lost it through a crash on my computer and a quick google search turned around negative, so you will have to trust me on my word) which was a poll about consumer satisfaction about surround products of all mainstream brands (as I recall Yamaha was the most exotic one.) In said poll Bose came out in the top tier with more than 80% 'yes' answers on the question: 'are you happy with your purchase?' Still from recollection Sony came in first. However, there were also other questions like 'would you recommend your system to a friend?' were Bose didn't held its own, but the most striking result was the Q 'how frequent do you listen to your system', where the average Bose listener didn't listen all too frequently to their system (I think it was less than 40% that listened on a daily or even weekly basis.) The nearest competitor had at least double this figure. Of course, this is all from recollection, with nothing to back it up (if someone can find this report I would be grateful to have it again), so I hope you don't give me a hard time writing this... However, going by this report, it is one thing to say you are satisfied with Bose (if you paid your hard cash it is not easy to admit that it was a waste), but sth else to listen to it on a regular basis...
2/ it always staggers me to hear people say they actually love the looks of everything Bose, as if you look closely, no Bose system that I know of uses anything but cheap plastic, cheap cloths, cheap MDF, etc. AAMOF you don't have to look closely to see there is no 'noble' parts to be found. Of course, that does not mean it will sound bad, but it surely is not giving any confidence in the products. Years ago, before I knew her, a friend of mine was looking for a hifi system. When told that money was no problem, the sales person showed her a Bose, to which she replied after taking a closer look 'you are not seriously believing I am going to buy this cheap trash, are you? Do you have anything good to show, or do I have to go to another shop?' In the end she still bought a Denon with some KEF speakers for €3000,- worth total in that shop, but I still love her for that...
3/ what really amazes me about Bose is, that no matter what price tag, no matter what system, big or large, it all sounds exactly the same. So, I guess if you bought a Companion for €99,- you faired well, something which is not exactly what I would say if you bought a LifeStyle...

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post #365 of 419 Old 04-28-2013, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by 802Diamond View Post

1/ there was a consumer report here in Holland (I lost it through a crash on my computer and a quick google search turned around negative, so you will have to trust me on my word) which was a poll about consumer satisfaction about surround products of all mainstream brands (as I recall Yamaha was the most exotic one.) In said poll Bose came out in the top tier with more than 80% 'yes' answers on the question: 'are you happy with your purchase?' Still from recollection Sony came in first. However, there were also other questions like 'would you recommend your system to a friend?' were Bose didn't held its own, but the most striking result was the Q 'how frequent do you listen to your system', where the average Bose listener didn't listen all too frequently to their system (I think it was less than 40% that listened on a daily or even weekly basis.) The nearest competitor had at least double this figure.

This is interesting, I would like to see this data too. I would say it's believable, and there's a few different ways you could interpret that data, but none of them good for Bose that I see.
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post #366 of 419 Old 04-28-2013, 08:58 PM
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So, you make a distinction simply because Bose heavily markets their products while Sony doesn't? That seems a bit biased to me?


Did you not ready my post? I'm not being biased, if I'm being incorrect then please find some evidence that says otherwise, I'd love to see it.

For the record, I have a Bose system in my Infiniti that many have mentioned here on this thread as not being that great, but I do in fact think it's ok for what it is and don't feel the need to install an expensive aftermarket system like I had in every other car I've owned.

But let's go back to the facts... Bose does not allow companies other then Bose to take measurements of their equipment and create reviews base on their data and observations. No other audio company that I know of follows this practice (Monster Cable maybe? And they suck too, btw). Not only that, Bose will go out of their way to sue if a company dares give any scientific data regarding their products! On this basis alone would I not buy any of their products (don't count my car because I love the car, not the stereo). I think Bose's headphone are ok for the money and if I wasn't into audio I could live with them as well but the rest of their products are cheap garbage. This is the reason they won't allow their products next to others so we can A/B them. This is why they sue company's that try to measure their products and give honest reviews based on scientific data. This is why they market in magazines like Maxium and Playboy instead of legitimate audiophile sources.
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post #367 of 419 Old 04-28-2013, 10:18 PM
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I have a Bose system in my Infiniti that many have mentioned here on this thread as not being that great, but I do in fact think it's ok for what it is and don't feel the need to install an expensive aftermarket system like I had in every other car I've owned.

Same here, can't complain about the Bose speakers in my car. I've heard a lot worse.
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post #368 of 419 Old 04-29-2013, 05:21 AM
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You see, I believe in this little concept called "personal responsibility". As a consumer, a person has a personal responsibility to learn what they are buying, BEFORE they buy it. Their failure to do so is THEIR fault, not the fault of the Bose Corporation, as much as you would like to be able to blame the "Big Bad Evil Corporation". If people want to be fools with their money, I see nothing wrong with a company providing them with a product to foolishly spend that money on, especially when most of those people are perfectly happy with their "foolish" purchase.
See here: The problem with this argument is that people who haven't yet "LEARNED" how to spend their money properly, are being preyed on by such companies as BOSE. They don't realize that companies lie, cheat, and steal in their ads. Some people are naive and actually believe what they are saying to 100% truth. I for one, have been teaching my children the value of $1 since they learned what money was, and that, you should never, if at all possible, pay full retail on anything. I explain why I bought "Tool A" over "Tool B" because of the performance, for example, a nail gun which leaves a smaller marr on the moulding, which translates to less work when it comes time for the finishing work, which they see first hand. However, not every parent teaches their kids how to live in the world. Hell, my parents taught me squat, and I had to learn everything on my own when I left the house at 18. BOSE knows this, and frankly, most advertising companies know this, which is why it is a multi-billion dollar industry. There is a comic movie about advertising, which is quite funny and true at the same time: "Crazy People". The CEO of the ad company is telling his workers at a meeting: "With snack foods, you have to drill, drill, drill that target audience until they're consuming your product (no because the WANT to but...) because they can't escape it."
You are right, people are responsible for their own money and how they spend it. Companies prey on the lack thereof. I fully agree that the rest of us are responsible for helping the uneducated NOT be scammed or duped into spending more money than they have to, for an inferior product that uses inferior parts. After they are made aware, they are free to spend their $$$ however they please, and nothing more needs to be said except the ole "Congratulations on your new speaker purchase. Hope you enjoy them" which I think everyone on this forum would say to anyone after a new purchase is made, whether they would buy the same product or not.

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post #369 of 419 Old 04-29-2013, 05:38 AM
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Not necessarily. There are plenty of people that spend their money wisely in some areas and not n others. It just depends on what your passions are. If you're not passionate about audio/video, then you'll most likely believe Bose's BS and buy their products merely because their brand name has utterly saturated the market.

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post #370 of 419 Old 04-29-2013, 05:49 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCBe7-6rw4M
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post #371 of 419 Old 04-29-2013, 08:50 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCBe7-6rw4M

This is hilarious!!
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post #372 of 419 Old 04-29-2013, 09:07 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCBe7-6rw4M
I love it! Before you kill yourself....can you validate my parking? That killed me. biggrin.gif

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post #373 of 419 Old 04-30-2013, 06:31 AM
 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCBe7-6rw4M

While I found it funny, she DID say she had a budget of only $500 and he immediately then tried to sell her a system for at least $2000. When she then explained she wanted an all in one system, he tried to sell her a system which was not all in one. That would be like going into a shop to buy sweat pants and the guy insisting you need a tuxedo to exercise in...
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post #374 of 419 Old 04-30-2013, 06:39 AM
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While I found it funny, she DID say she had a budget of only $500 and he immediately then tried to sell her a system for at least $2000. When she then explained she wanted an all in one system, he tried to sell her a system which was not all in one. That would be like going into a shop to buy sweat pants and the guy insisting you need a tuxedo to exercise in...
Ya, but buying Bose is more like buying one of those tuxedo t-shirts.tongue.gif

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post #375 of 419 Old 04-30-2013, 06:48 AM
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"No highs. No lows. It must be Bose" biggrin.gif
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post #376 of 419 Old 04-30-2013, 08:46 AM
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In all honesty, I don't dislike how Bose products sound.
Definitely too expensive for what you get, but the sound quality isn't bad. Good overall balance of sound IMO; never too tinny, never too muddy. Pretty neutral, and they go well with a lot of sources and environments.
My car has factory Bose speakers, and I am fine with them.

This is coming from a guy(me) with a Paradigm V7 setup in his basement.

I will not buy this record, it is scratched.
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post #377 of 419 Old 04-30-2013, 09:24 AM
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I thought the video was hilarious as well, punctuated by the expressive non-expression of their animated faces. What was great about it was already alluded to in other poster's remarks...that both sides had their points.

Many of us, I'm sure, identified with the salesman's attempts to get her to open up to something better, but she did have only $500 for the feature set that she wanted, and the salesman's ignoring of that fact reminded me of many of my own shopping forays.

Good that a video like this makes all sides laugh in what otherwise is the fightclub that most Bose-related threads become.
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post #378 of 419 Old 04-30-2013, 11:03 AM
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Good on Bose for doing what they do, I have no problem with them charging what they do, the majority of people buying their higher priced products are most likely the same types that are sucked in to think a $500 bottle of wine is so much better than a $15 bottle. You can pretty well market anything to appear better than something of similar or better quality if you are smart enough, full credit to Bose, they figured this out years ago. Exclusive restraurants have done it for years, serve up a piece of meat, cut it in a funky style, serve it with stuff all veggies and give it a wank name and the exclusive set will pay 100 bucks for it. Helps too if the restraurant claims it is booked out for 3 months in advance even when it isn't. So the value and exclusivity of the wine/meal/Bose system is in the eyes of the beholder. They think they are getting something so much better than most other people, if only they knew they are classic victims of clever marketing and brain washing. Not saying all Bose customers are like this, and not saying there isn't some value in their products, I am though saying that so much "exclusive stuff" is not really exclusive, it just appears to be.

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post #379 of 419 Old 04-30-2013, 01:22 PM
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Bose takes cheap junk, says it's great, and puts a ridiculously high markup on it. High end audio manufacturers actually put expensive, high quality components into their equipment and charge accordingly for it. Whether it's actually worth the price is a matter of debate. But at least you know you're getting good high quality gear for your money. The same can't be said of Bose.

Most of us here would be fine with Bose if they charged a price commensurate with the level of their gear, but they don't. They charge 3-4X more than what it's worth, and through deceptive advertising practices actually convince a great number of people that their gear outperforms most of the rest of the stuff that's out there. It's total BS and that is where our beef is with the company.

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post #380 of 419 Old 05-01-2013, 08:00 AM
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and any other company that does the same thing with its products ($1k cables, cable risers, etc). Not just BOSE
Better Off Shopping Elsewhere

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post #381 of 419 Old 05-24-2013, 04:38 PM
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I'm realize I'm new to this site, but I've been doing a lot of reading on it since I joined. And I simply find it hilarious that there are people on here raving about $200,000 speakers and $5000 receivers...and yet Bose is a rip-off for selling a $2000 HTIB system...LOL
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post #382 of 419 Old 05-24-2013, 04:56 PM
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Enjoy your Bose. You seem to be infatuated with
Them. The whole jist of the dislike of Bose is that
You don't get a good value for what you spend.

Expensive speakers and AVRs have nothing to do
With it. LOL

FWIW a vast majority of the people on
These forums that are building systems
Are doing so with a budget far less than
A comparable Bose system.
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post #383 of 419 Old 05-24-2013, 04:59 PM
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Just because other systems rip you off even more doesn't make Bose any less of a rip-off.
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post #384 of 419 Old 05-24-2013, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by grasshoppers View Post

Enjoy your Bose. You seem to be infatuated with
Them. The whole jist of the dislike of Bose is that
You don't get a good value for what you spend.

Expensive speakers and AVRs have nothing to do
With it. LOL

Ah, and $200,000 (or even $20,000) is a GREAT value for speakers....I'm sure those are worth every penny. rolleyes.gif

And just an FYI. I'm certainly not "infatuated" with my Bose, I'm well aware of their shortcomings, and they were simply a means to an end at the time that I bought them. I just think the snobbish hatred shown towards Bose on this site is way over the top.
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post #385 of 419 Old 05-24-2013, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by spanky250 View Post

Ah, and $200,000 (or even $20,000) is a GREAT value for speakers....I'm sure those are worth every penny. rolleyes.gif

And just an FYI. I'm certainly not "infatuated" with my Bose, I'm well aware of their shortcomings, and they were simply a means to an end at the time that I bought them. I just think the snobbish hatred shown towards Bose on this site is way over the top.

Your posting history would certainly indicate that you ARE infatuated
With your "compromise". 75% of your posts are on this thread!

As far as the mega buck speakers you mention, you probably
Should not be reading the "ultra high end HT gear" sub-forum
If its giving you an inferiority complex.

In this sub-forum (speakers) I can't recall ANY
Threads talking about $20K speakers much less
$200K speakers. Not the demographic here.
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post #386 of 419 Old 05-24-2013, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by grasshoppers View Post

Your posting history would certainly indicate that you ARE infatuated
With your "compromise". 75% of your posts are on this thread!

Did you actually read any of my posts? Because I pretty clearly stated in one that I simply love a good debate, and for awhile at least, this thread certainly qualified.
Quote:
As far as the mega buck speakers you mention, you probably
Should not be reading the "ultra high end HT gear" sub-forum
If its giving you an inferiority complex.

In this sub-forum (speakers) I can't recall ANY
Threads talking about $20K speakers much less
$200K speakers. Not the demographic here.

Well since you pretty clearly missed my point (blinded by Bose hatred maybe? biggrin.gif ) , I'll reiterate.

There are posts on this WEBSITE (I don't think I mentioned specific sub-forums, now did I?) applauding speakers that cost more than houses and receivers that cost more than a decent used car. Yet you guys try to imply that Bose is the biggest rip-off in the audio industry...and I just think that's funny as hell.

This site really needs a laughing smiley...

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post #387 of 419 Old 05-24-2013, 05:43 PM
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Concerning the mega buck speakers & receivers an analogy
Regarding automobiles might be fun. An automobile will get
You from point A to point B. if you have the money you can
Get a Mercedes or if you don't you buy a used Ford Pinto.
If you have the funds get what you want.

There really is no debate here, ANY Bose system is simply
A Pinto with a Mercedes hood emblem on it. You aren't
Fooling anyone though in the end.wink.gif
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post #388 of 419 Old 05-24-2013, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshoppers View Post

Concerning the mega buck speakers & receivers an analogy
Regarding automobiles might be fun. An automobile will get
You from point A to point B. if you have the money you can
Get a Mercedes or if you don't you buy a used Ford Pinto.
If you have the funds get what you want.

There really is no debate here, ANY Bose system is simply
A Pinto with a Mercedes hood emblem on it. You aren't
Fooling anyone though in the end.wink.gif

There is ALWAYS something that can be debated...


So you actually think a Mercedes is a good value for an automobile? If so, that explains a lot...
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post #389 of 419 Old 05-24-2013, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spanky250 View Post

There is ALWAYS something that can be debated...


So you actually think a Mercedes is a good value for an automobile? If so, that explains a lot...

Actually have a 2002 Toyota pick-up and a company car,the latter is much
Better than any Mercedes for obvious financial reasons;) How do you
Feel about that?
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post #390 of 419 Old 05-24-2013, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spanky250 View Post

Did you actually read any of my posts? Because I pretty clearly stated in one that I simply love a good debate, and for awhile at least, this thread certainly qualified.
Well since you pretty clearly missed my point (blinded by Bose hatred maybe? biggrin.gif ) ]

Since your bored and looking for a good debate (you did revive a 3 week old thread)
I would like to entertain you with a TRUE story. I was actually a Bose fanboy!
Shocking huh?

I came to this forum looking to try a score some Bose floor standing speakers (701)
To compliment my "awesome" Bose speakers. Final piece of the puzzle.
I already had the stellar vc-10 center channel and the 161's for surrounds.
I also was using the 201's for music in a separate room. The Companion 5
Was connected to my computer. The "acoustic wave" was my to go system.
WOW

When I couldn't find the floor standers I wanted, I was FORCED to consider
Alternatives. Stopped by a shop and bought some Paradigm monitor 11's.
Spanky--I saw the light!!! I quickly put all my Bose speakers on Craigslist
And,man they sold like hot cakes. (ignorance of the masses) This is probably
The biggest benefit of owning Bose.biggrin.gif.

The sale of my Bose "stuff" (don't wish to offend you) financed my new paradigm
System. Haven't looked back.

Being honest here my Companion 5 was kept on the computer,but when they
Gave up the ghost they were dumped into the garbage in a blink of an eye.
Replaced by Roland Mackies.

I still have a pair of Bose Roomate powered speakers that I won in a contest.
They came with a travel bag and a heavy re-chargeable battery. They do still
Sound good (20 years old)

Hope you have been entertained!
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