Pioneer's Speaker Genius Hits Low Price Point - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 6069 Old 11-04-2010, 08:56 PM
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For the most part (to my ears) a sealed sub works
better for music. You may want to return the SW8
and save up for a good sealed subwoofer. I find that
most lower priced subs (not all) are not voiced for
music in general - even the ones with big discounts.

With the Y-split - all power goes to the sub.

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Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #452 of 6069 Old 11-04-2010, 09:14 PM
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Can you recommend any good sealed subs for music that aren't too expensive? Now that I'm a couple hours into this setup I don't think there's any going back.
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post #453 of 6069 Old 11-04-2010, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strangelove424 View Post

Can you recommend any good sealed subs for music that aren't too expensive? Now that I'm a couple hours into this setup I don't think there's any going back.

Go to Emotiva.com and check the Ultra 10 sub. Go to the
subwoofer forum and read about Emotiva Ultra subwoofers.

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Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #454 of 6069 Old 11-04-2010, 09:44 PM
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Hmm. The Ultra10 is tasty looking. I noticed the specs say it has a butyl rubber HALF surround. The Pinnacle's ENTIRE woofer is covered in butyl rubber and I think that has something to do with the thickness in its voicing. I will look into the Emotiva more. Thanks for the help guys, its a relief to know this won't stress any component. The sound is ridiculously good, if anything just because there seems to be a major reduction of standing waves or buildups of any frequency. It seems contradictory, but its less bassy than before, but the bass is now clearer, sweeter, and more evenly spread through the frequency range and the room, which is allowing the main channels to balance the subs more easily. This is awesome.
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post #455 of 6069 Old 11-04-2010, 11:21 PM
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FWIW, I was in the same boat as you before I got the CS21 and B41's. My Energy take 5's, crossover set at 150Hz, my BIC F12 was too boomy for music. With the Pioneer speakers and crossover set to 80Hz, my sub is now much better music wise.

Before this I was set on replacing my F12 with an HSU STF-2. This sub isn't too expensive and is supposed to be a decently musical sub, and do okay for HT use too.
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post #456 of 6069 Old 11-05-2010, 12:05 AM
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I am always surprised at how much bass the BS41s produce. Looking through my receiver settings yesterday after I re-calibrated for the new sub I caught that it had reset the crossover on my rear surrounds (BS41s) to 40hz... the towers to 60hz. I thought it sounded boomy but my first culprit was the sub. Setting all back to 80hz brought back the clarity, headroom in the upper range, and even made the subwoofer sound better. Now that the Pinnacle and SW-8 are buddies that 80hz setting is paying off even more so. I would go up to 100hz but I am sensing the direction of the subs a bit. There's always that feeling you are wasting the money you spent on the main channels for bass-efficient woofers, but it just doesn't sound good when you try to rationalize your receiver settings that way.
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post #457 of 6069 Old 11-05-2010, 12:19 AM
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Stay below 100hz

__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #458 of 6069 Old 11-06-2010, 10:44 AM
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I'm still debating getting these speakers - but I want to get an opinion before I pick them up for a test run.
Here is the front of my room:


The right side has been "adjusted" to show where i would like to place the floorstanding speaker. Being "non shielded" - am I going to have problems with them being so close to my CRT rear projection TV?

Getting rid of the cabinets isn't an option right now - I have nowhere else to put my equipment, and the surround speakers/cable are all run to a plate behind the left cabinet.

-Aaron
My Basement Movie Room and Bar/Game Room - actually doing stuff now... please comment!
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post #459 of 6069 Old 11-06-2010, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PTAaron View Post

Being "non shielded" - am I going to have problems with them being so close to my CRT rear projection TV?

You might. Don't know how well shielded those CRT tubes are.
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post #460 of 6069 Old 11-06-2010, 02:13 PM
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I thought I might share my upgrading story which this thread sort of rolled me along:

About a month ago, I was pretty satisfied with my DTA-1 class T Amp connected to my Dayton B652 speakers, playing music from my PC. Then I got hit by the upgrade bug, I wanted something like that for my kitchen for music when cooking or drinking games. I ended up buying a Gizmo from Chase HT, which sort of pointed out the weakness in my $30 speakers, both high and low end, I'm guessing the DTA didn't send out those signals. As I stated earlier, I bought a Pinnacle Digital Sub 200 the other day, and received that yesterday. That was an impulse buy after reading Strangelove's review, I really don't need a sub that big in my 11x12 bedroom.
I almost bought the WAF-1 from Chase, but my girlfriend was totally against the red. I read 90% of this thread at work a week ago curious, and it got me thinking about buying the Pioneer speakers. Then I started thinking about upgrading my HT surround speakers, from DefTech PM800 to PM1000, then I thought about getting Mirage OMD-5. Needless to say my girlfriend was not very happy about me going from $150 Pio BS41, to $90 BS21, to upgrading my DefTechs, to buying Mirage OMD-5 for $360. Then there are the SuperZero v2 that are coming out next week that I wanted to read reviews about. I still haven't read any major website reviews for the Pioneer line. I compromised with myself saying I'll get the BS21 if I get a 10% off coupon from BB, the BS41 if J&R go down to $100, or purchase the Mirage's if I could find it for less than $200. J&R won. They have a one day special on the BS41's today for $99 and shipping, and I bought it. Hopefully by next weekend, I'll have some imprecise, amateur review for you guys on how I think they sound, comparing my Daytons to the Pio BS41s and if I'm not lazy, to my DefTech SM450's. But most likely just my Dayton to my brand new Pio speakers. Then I'll disappear again, before I get upgraditis again.
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post #461 of 6069 Old 11-06-2010, 02:54 PM
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Not sure if this is a stupid question:

I bought the towers and the cc so far. Would it be ok to get the towers for the surround as well instead of the bookshelves? It would come out the same price after I bought stands.
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post #462 of 6069 Old 11-06-2010, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paramountads View Post

Not sure if this is a stupid question:

I bought the towers and the cc so far. Would it be ok to get the towers for the surround as well instead of the bookshelves? It would come out the same price after I bought stands.

A question is a question - don't worry about whether it is stupid
or not. As long as you don't block the sound, you will be fine.
Also, J&R (www.jr.com) has the B41 bookshelves for a good price.
speaker stands are cheaper these days - your choice.

__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #463 of 6069 Old 11-06-2010, 03:40 PM
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Thanks, Ill go with them. I was concerned about the max power for the BB speakers
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post #464 of 6069 Old 11-06-2010, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paramountads View Post
Thanks, Ill go with them. I was concerned about the max power for the BB speakers
Depends what you mean by max power but I doubt you'll need to worry over their ability to take power from most any AVR. Mine's 130 watts/channel and none of the Pioneers have shown or made sounds of overload.

I've got four of the BS-41's and the towers and center. They stay clear beyond my ability to tolerate loud, which is probably around 115 db. My furthest speaker is 12 feet and my fronts average 8.6 ft according to Audyssey results.

The Pioneer sub is the weak spot - it's too small unless I upright it to face it's cone into the room. I'll be after a new sub soon, but I'll try elevating it off the carpet first. I think it's being choked by pile......
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post #465 of 6069 Old 11-06-2010, 05:36 PM
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I have the Pio 820 which is 100 or 110 watts so I should be fine. Im like the BB speakers just because I can pick them up tomorrow. Would the other ones sound much better? Im just using them as surrounds.

As far as the sub goes, I believe Im going to go with the Bic 200. For the under $350 range it stacks up pretty well to everyone else.
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post #466 of 6069 Old 11-06-2010, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paramountads View Post
I have the Pio 820 which is 100 or 110 watts so I should be fine. Im like the BB speakers just because I can pick them up tomorrow. Would the other ones sound much better? Im just using them as surrounds.

As far as the sub goes, I believe Im going to go with the Bic 200. For the under $350 range it stacks up pretty well to everyone else.
The B21 & B41 are voiced the same - the B41 will have more bass.
The B21 will be good for surrounds.

__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #467 of 6069 Old 11-06-2010, 06:19 PM
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i'm looking at the Lava 12" sub as replacement to the Pioneer. Lot of good things said, and the price is right...http://www.lavasubs.com/.

The Pioneer isn't a bad sub it's just that in my space it doesn't have the oomph to make thunder.
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post #468 of 6069 Old 11-06-2010, 06:38 PM
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The Pioneer sub, will work better with small sats.

__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #469 of 6069 Old 11-06-2010, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PTAaron View Post
I'm still debating getting these speakers - but I want to get an opinion before I pick them up for a test run.
Here is the front of my room:


The right side has been "adjusted" to show where i would like to place the floorstanding speaker. Being "non shielded" - am I going to have problems with them being so close to my CRT rear projection TV?

Getting rid of the cabinets isn't an option right now - I have nowhere else to put my equipment, and the surround speakers/cable are all run to a plate behind the left cabinet.
I have that Toshiba TV in my basement.

Panasonic P60ST50-Yamaha RX-V467 receiver-Sony PS3-Velodyne SMS-1-Canton 430 mains, 455 center and 402 surrounds-Rythmik FV15HP subwoofer- Pro-ject Debut III turntable- I also have a pair of Mark K's DIY design, the ER18DXT's
.
My humble entertainment room
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1417652/midwest...
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post #470 of 6069 Old 11-06-2010, 09:45 PM
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Another crazy question. My HT is in my basement. The studs are metal not wood. If I go with the bookshelves I would wall mount them on shelves.

Would these vibrate and make an annoying sound? I guess its hard to tell unless I tried.

Ceiling mounted speakers would be the easiest option as I have a drop ceiling, but I dont think they would sound anywhere as good.
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post #471 of 6069 Old 11-07-2010, 01:01 AM
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One word of advice, the center channel is HUGE! Brought the bookshelves and center home from best buy the other day, the center didn't come close to fitting any of the shelves in the media center. The wife veto'd before I even got to listen to them. I had it sitting in front of the tv at the base where my old center sat for a long time, but it sat up above the tv. BB was great about the return, and I ordered the Jamo's from Vanns.

Tahiti,Dinosaurs,M-house, AIW , Tangled,7Wonders, HTTYD, Cloudy, Open Season, Goldberg Variations, Avatar, 3d triple, Lang Lang, Megamind,Yogi, G&J, shrek-complete.
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post #472 of 6069 Old 11-07-2010, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

The Pioneer sub, will work better with small sats.

Yeah, and I'm reading up on "bass falloff" with use of Audyssey and trying to figure if I went wrong in procedural things.

In other words, I'm willing to give the little guy the benefit of doubt before rushing off to buy bigger..
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post #473 of 6069 Old 11-07-2010, 04:00 PM
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Hey guys,

I have a pair of BS41's I'm planning to return to JR... but if someone is interested in buying them from me... let me know.

I'd sell them for $99 + shipping, which is the best price JR had (back up to $149 now)... There's really no point in me selling for cheaper because I can just return them to JR.


As impressive as these speakers are for the money... they're not enough for me to replace my Energy RC-10's with them (even though it'd be the smart financial decision).

I had planned to keep them for my bedroom if I didn't put them in my living room... and my girlfriend vetoed that one - she doesn't like the bigger speakers in the bedroom.

So back to JR unless someone here wants them.
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post #474 of 6069 Old 11-07-2010, 07:36 PM
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Well the impulsive side got the best of me. I got the towers for the rears as well. I didnt think the ceiling speakers would sound good enough and I was concerned about the bookshelves for two reasons. 1. They seem too big to put on stands. 2. I have a child on the way and was concerned that it would be easy to pull knock over the bookshelf on a stand.

Anyway, it sounds pretty damn good. Still dont have a sub but they do a semi decent job with the low end and sounds great overall. Again, this is my first real system so I dont know how this compares to better. But for me, this is bliss!
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post #475 of 6069 Old 11-07-2010, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paramountads View Post

Again, this is my first real system so I dont know how this compares to better. But for me, this is bliss!

That is the only thing that matters for now - you being happy.

__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #476 of 6069 Old 11-08-2010, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paramountads View Post

I have a child on the way and was concerned that it would be easy to pull knock over the bookshelf on a stand.

You will very much appreciate the heavy duty metal grills then. I am a klutz and they've saved woofers already from a free-falling screw driver during install and my foot in a tripping incident.
I feel you on the bliss thing too... I get up every morning and turn on the system, and I can't believe it. I wouldn't have been able to afford good sound for a while without these speakers.
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post #477 of 6069 Old 11-08-2010, 04:10 AM
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where did all the old speakers go.. remember, the really big ones or the very heavy ones and almost always seemed to sound richer (at least to me). I wonder if others feel the same?
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post #478 of 6069 Old 11-08-2010, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smjm1982 View Post

where did all the old speakers go.. remember, the really big ones or the very heavy ones and almost always seemed to sound richer (at least to me). I wonder if others feel the same?

They're available, and have developed over the years.

Personally I don't think that the grand symphonic reproducers of old are very appropriate to the sounds of a televised program or even for a movie when watched in a relatively small enclosed area. Most of the large woofer rich sounding speakers for which you yearn would sound muddy, overwhelming dialog with their thunderous harmonic waves, not to mention the possibility of their sound pressure shattering both the eardrums as well as the drinking glasses of entire families gathered close to the tube for an episode of South Park. One ridiculous shriek sound played loud through LaScalas might result in a cardiac arrest for dad and a life changing hormonal shock for mom even while thrilling the kids.

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post #479 of 6069 Old 11-08-2010, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smjm1982 View Post

where did all the old speakers go.. remember, the really big ones or the very heavy ones and almost always seemed to sound richer (at least to me). I wonder if others feel the same?

I'm in my late 20s, spent my early childhood growing up in the 80s, and there are two memories which formed my early associations with hi-fi equipment: an old pair of giant Sony speakers my dad had when I was young, and the first scene in Back to The Future where Marty walks in to Doc's house to find a giant speaker array. He picks up a bass guitar, cranks the knob, and destroys the entire system (torn woofer cones and all) in a single note that launches him into the wall.

As for those Sony speakers, they were huge and I always thought of them as the biggest, richest sounding things in the world until I pulled them out of the attic a few years ago and was appalled at how muddy, weak, and inaccurate there were. Even my dad wanted to include them in that year's garage sale. And Back to the Future after all was just a movie. I have a nostalgia for big speakers too, but I think technology has moved in favor of accuracy and detail. Subwoofers have also changed the audio world a lot and allowed mid-range and upper bass woofers to be optimized better. Those Sony's must have been trying to handle everything but the highest frequencies - upper mid range, mid range, upper bass, and bass - with a single slow responding giant 15" paper cone... That must have been a busy woofer, or at least a very confused one.
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post #480 of 6069 Old 11-08-2010, 05:42 PM
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Just received the BS21's direct thru Pioneer EPP to serve as rear surrounds for my current home theater setup. I'm in the process of moving so I packed up my B&W 685's (FR L and R) and put the Pio's on my speaker stands and played some 2ch music.

On paper, I wasn't expecting too much, but holy smokes do those little speakers sound good. These aren't quite as efficient as the 685's so I had to drive them a little more to pull out a little more detail. Bass reproduction is clean though not as pronounced as the B&W (driver size difference) and the B&W's highs were a bit crisper. Imaging is great and mids sound good. Overall sound for what I paid is IMPRESSIVE. I'd love the audio blogs and magazines give this speaker lineup a proper review.

I'd considered the Audioengine P4 and NHT SuperZero 2.0, but for the money, these Pio's are really hard to beat. Unlike those other two however, the BS21's don't have any kind of way of wall mounting so I'll need to find shelves or more stands.

If I was a Best Buy employee, I'd be pointing any potential HTIB buyer on to an inexpensive 5.1 receiver and this speaker family.
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