Pioneer's Speaker Genius Hits Low Price Point - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 5760 Old 11-25-2010, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by zieglj01

And to think - they had a suggested retail of $199.
That's what makes me nervous
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post #542 of 5760 Old 11-25-2010, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by hyperactiveme View Post

That's what makes me nervous

Dude, relax. These are a steal at $80 shipped. I have them running as rears with my RC-50s and they blend really well. Actually have a little bit different sound on the midrange, which works well with music as the Pios bring out sounds that aren't as pronounced on the Energys. Bass is...airy but not thumpy is that makes sense. At $240 plus the cost of a sub, you could have a nice 6.1 surround system...
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post #543 of 5760 Old 11-25-2010, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by hyperactiveme View Post

That's what makes me nervous

Don't worry about that - the Pioneer line, is above average in sound quality.

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post #544 of 5760 Old 11-25-2010, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by hyperactiveme View Post

That's what makes me nervous

if you have read this thread you'll be less nervous. In a nutshell Best buy elected not to carry the BS-41 while carrying the rest of the lineup. There have been several theories (guesses) as to why BB went that way but it seems to have left Pioneer with a surplus of BS-41 speakers that was apparently bought up by J&R at a very good price. So we benefit from J&R blitzing them out at assorted pricess. (I bought my second pair from them at their $99. initial offering that came soon after I'd received shipment from Pioneer). I meant to be content with a 5.1 television setup but now use 7.1 allthough I'm not sure what benefit comes from the back pair.

To the question of why BS-41 surrounds instead of BS-21...I left that option for later, but why not? It doesn't harm my sound to have the larger model as surrounds since I can tailor it as I like, and it leaves the larger pair to use as bookshelfs someplace else in the house if I go that way, replacing them with the smaller ones at that time.
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post #545 of 5760 Old 11-25-2010, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by hyperactiveme View Post

Krs - why did you decide to use bs41 in stead of fs51 or even the c21 (value wise seems better to get fs51)

Edit: I just noticed the bs41 are $129 @ jr not $199. Is this still a better option than the cs21 for the surrounds?


I don't understand your question unless I neglected to say that I have the towers as front speakers, or....... what are "fs51"?


Look, I'm shopping bookshelves right now for my music listening place. The prices are running upwards from about $1200. a pair. These Pioneers, to me, are a stone bargain at any of the listed prices for my home theater (TV) living room. That said, as cheap as possible is always a good thing. Depends what the purpose is sometimes.
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post #546 of 5760 Old 11-25-2010, 09:31 AM
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Should I pick up another set of the bs-41 for the fronts or are the towers critical in this set up? I already have a plenty of thump from my sub. 90% HT/gaming, 10% music.
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post #547 of 5760 Old 11-25-2010, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by hyperactiveme View Post

Should I pick up another set of the bs-41 for the fronts or are the towers critical in this set up? I already have a plenty of thump from my sub. 90% HT/gaming, 10% music.

Without having heard the FS-51s at home, and given that your main use is HT, I'd say the price difference makes sticking with the 41s a no-brainer. You can always upgrade to the towers later. I'm considering grabbing another pair just to have them at this price (I can't go too 7 channels in my living room). If I could find a cheap receiver to power them, I'd throw a pair in my bedroom.
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post #548 of 5760 Old 11-25-2010, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperactiveme View Post

Should I pick up another set of the bs-41 for the fronts or are the towers critical in this set up? I already have a plenty of thump from my sub. 90% HT/gaming, 10% music.

OK, I apologize about not recognizing 'fs51' as the towers. For some reason I haven't kept their nomenclature straight since this began.

Anyway, I'd say if you have room for the towers for front speakers use them. They really do put out a more full sound than the BS-41 and it's likely only because of the additional driver and larger interior space. They're pretty rich in comparison.

However, if there isn't room for them the BS-41 can do the job as long as a sub is in the room. They're complete spekers with a lower frequency response than the CS-21. I put them into my studio/shop/music place when they first arrived and compared them with a few other old things I have here. They do a credible job in high and midrange but don't have the bass to fill out the sound. They NEED to be used with a subwoofer.
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post #549 of 5760 Old 11-25-2010, 10:08 AM
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How are you guys setting up the bookshelves as surrounds? Just using stands? It didn't look like they were wall mountable when I glanced at them while buying the center and floorstanders (is that a word?)...
I would like to upgrade my surrounds/rears, but I need something I can wall mount - is there a way these could fit the bill or should I look elsewhere? It would be nice to match the surrounds/rears with the fronts/center i already picked up.

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My Basement Movie Room and Bar/Game Room - actually doing stuff now... please comment!
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post #550 of 5760 Old 11-25-2010, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by PTAaron View Post

How are you guys setting up the bookshelves as surrounds? Just using stands? It didn't look like they were wall mountable when I glanced at them while buying the center and floorstanders (is that a word?)...
I would like to upgrade my surrounds/rears, but I need something I can wall mount - is there a way these could fit the bill or should I look elsewhere? It would be nice to match the surrounds/rears with the fronts/center i already picked up.

Someplace in the thread someone linked to wall mounts that clamp onto the bottoms of these speakers. Maybe someone with better search abilities than mine can find it for you.

The Pioneer reps who were here repeatedly said that they did not reccommend putting holes or screws into the enclosures. That's a natural company line when MDF is used instead of solid wood but a careful person could probably find a way. The weight of the speakers might pull inadequate screws loose so don't locate speakers over your wife's cat's bed (or maybe DO... ) or anything breakable. I have places to put these speakers but if I didn't I think I'd seek out the clamping wall mounts.
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post #551 of 5760 Old 11-25-2010, 10:22 AM
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Well, that price pushed me over. The 41s will be my new PC speakers.
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post #552 of 5760 Old 11-25-2010, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by vraxoin View Post

Well, that price pushed me over. The 41s will be my new PC speakers.

LoL! I couldn't resist it either and bought another pair. Maybe I'll just leave them boxed and keep them as spares in case one of the others ever shorts out or something. Really, $79. a pair shipped is ridiculously low - J&R must just want them out of their inventory.
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post #553 of 5760 Old 11-25-2010, 11:44 AM
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$79 for a pair of bs41 is so irresistible I've already got a pair of Axiom M3's in my stereo system, so not sure there's much point in getting these. I might just buy the towers instead.
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post #554 of 5760 Old 11-25-2010, 01:32 PM
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$79 with free shipping. Quite the deal!

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post #555 of 5760 Old 11-25-2010, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by krs View Post

They do a credible job in high and midrange but don't have the bass to fill out the sound. They NEED to be used with a subwoofer.

That's something I personally love, I like crisp clean sound (specially while listening to Judas Priest) but from what I've been told it isn't "natural".

Still I think I might get the:
bs41'2 as fronts (due to lack of space and a messy toddler)
bs21's as rears (on stands)
c21 and the SW-8.
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post #556 of 5760 Old 11-25-2010, 10:37 PM
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lol... I already have the fs51s, bs41s, and c21... but for $79 I'm going to start building an army of these things. Anyone know how I can turn bs41s into computer speakers on the cheap? Is there a cheap amp I can buy? Unfortunately my receiver does not have any powered channels to spare.

My computer has an optical out. Right now its on a mobile desk and I am forced to wheel it into the middle of the home theater area to work. (I do video editing) I'm not concerned about losing surround capability for the computer since the sound card won't allow me to live preview a 5.1 mix without encoding it anyway. If I could find power for these things for $100 or cheaper it'd be a no-brainer... any suggestions? No sound processing needed, just power to speakers.
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post #557 of 5760 Old 11-25-2010, 11:05 PM
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Inexpensive sonic t-amp should do the trick.
http://www.amazon.com/Dayton-DTA-1-C.../dp/B001PNOH2I

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post #558 of 5760 Old 11-26-2010, 12:12 AM
 
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I spent some time listening to the towers (the ones with three 5¼ in them) in BB's listening room the other day. I closed the doors to keep out ambient noise. They also had some Polks with 5¼ and some Klipsch icon series or something. They were both more expensive than the $199 pair of Pios. I selected the Pio 1020k for the AVR in stereo mode. It was difficult to do any kind of listening comparison, because the Pios were so much weaker. Several db's. Both the Polks and the Klipsch were much more sensitive. The bass was also very weak in the Pios. The bass sounded much fuller and nicer on the (admittedly more expensive) Polks. The Klipsch were very sensitive, and were loud and bright. To put it nicely, they did not sound very refined.

Anyway, the Pioneers could not get loud enough for my taste, even with the Pioneer 1020 at 0.00 db. Kind of turned me off. I don't think these things could keep up with my subs.

Anyway, in the Pioneer's favor, the Polks had a kind of forward or in your face kind of image which I didn't get with the Pioneers. The Pioneers seemed more laid back. They were not fatiguing like the Klipsch.

So the sound was not bad, (although something still seemed to be lacking) but the bass was very weak, and I don't know how well it would integrate with my subs. It's not that the sound was bad--it had a bit of a refined sound to it--it's just that there was simply not enough sound. Perhaps my 1120K would drive them a bit louder than the 1020k?

Anyway, can't complain about the price, and at normal listening levels they sound great for the price. I just don't get the impression that these speakers can really rock out.

Many speakers can sound not too bad at moderate listening levels. The real good ones can play clean and detailed, at louder levels too.

These speakers suck too much juice. I would have to use many more watts to get the kind of dynammic listening levels that I want.

I can get some Boston CS226's with dual 6½ for close to the same price that might work better for me. They are taller too, and the Pioneers are a little on the short side. Don't think they would get up to ear level.
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post #559 of 5760 Old 11-26-2010, 12:22 AM
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That would be perfect (especially that price) but I am concerned that 15 watts per speaker would not be enough, especially since the Pioneers are so greedy for power. The other issue is the audio jack in. I used to edit over the jack, first to small speakers, then to good headphone, and you absolutely cannot trust it due to pre-amplification, even on headphones. It will roll off the highest and lowest points in the audio data, and if you're EQing or adding filters, that's usually where the nasty bits are hiding and you'll miss them. Is there anything like that with an optical in? Or would I need to go to a digital stereo receiver at that point? Last question... if I did do that, are there any below $150? Thanks for the help... I do appreciate it.
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post #560 of 5760 Old 11-26-2010, 12:43 AM
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strangelove, Audiosource 100 amp seems to be well liked, and cheap - JR has it for $69 right now. I just ordered a pair of bs41's, and might have to get that amp too. I'm using a Trends TA-10.1 T-amp for those Axiom M3's to great result, but I also think it's probably too weak for the BS41.
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post #561 of 5760 Old 11-26-2010, 06:17 AM
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If anyone is relying on any of my statements about the Pioneer speaker line in question here I hope that the several times that I've said that I think that they make for good home theater movie and TV programming surround sound use speakers has not been overlooked.

To me TV sound is a seperate and isolated quality. When I listen to music I have another standard.

I have an Asus Xonar Essence STX card on the way for a source part of my conversion of my music listening workshop and studio room downstairs to a digital source high quality sound system.

I did take the first pair of BS-41's down there to try out in that environment and found them not up to the standard I hope to attain in critical music enjoyment. For that I'm shopping other speakers and unfortunately having to raise the money bar several levels higher than the Pioneer prices.
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post #562 of 5760 Old 11-26-2010, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiok View Post

strangelove, Audiosource 100 amp seems to be well liked, and cheap - JR has it for $69 right now. I just ordered a pair of bs41's, and might have to get that amp too. I'm using a Trends TA-10.1 T-amp for those Axiom M3's to great result, but I also think it's probably too weak for the BS41.

That should do the trick. I'll need to feed the optical line to the receiver, then RCA out to the amp. The benefit of still going through the receiver is I can switch to the surround setup if I need it.

I checked out Trends audio too. They have some really interesting gear. If anyone needs a good iPod or iPhone amp solution that uses the line out instead of a jack, they have it there.
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post #563 of 5760 Old 11-26-2010, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by krs View Post

If anyone is relying on any of my statements about the Pioneer speaker line in question here I hope that the several times that I've said that I think that they make for good home theater movie and TV programming surround sound use speakers has not been overlooked.

I'm afraid your statement was completely eclipsed by Andrew Jone's signature on the back and the ridiculous $79/pair price But thanks for setting my expectation right.
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post #564 of 5760 Old 11-26-2010, 01:40 PM
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In a perfect world I'd have a replica of Abbey Roads, complete with B&W 805s, and as I strolled into my home theater with an exotic martini in hand, I'd flip the main control switch on a series of tube amps powering Pioneer EXs on a 10.2 setup. But this is the real world. I love audiophiles, but sometimes on these forums people refuse to admit there's such a thing as money and financial limitation. I believe in the purity of sound too.. Plato called it the "celestial movement of the heavenly spheres" and I remind myself that whenever I need to sacrifice money on audio. But people do have limitations - unless they want to go broke.

Having said that, I enjoy listening to music on these Pioneers very much. Sure, there are better speakers than these for music. But for the money, it's tough to get better.
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post #565 of 5760 Old 11-26-2010, 01:48 PM
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Bought me 2 pair, front and rear and the center one due to a few people that helped me in my own thread and I see are posting here also. Can't wait to hear them.
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post #566 of 5760 Old 11-26-2010, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strangelove424 View Post

In a perfect world I'd have a replica of Abbey Roads, complete with B&W 805s, and as I strolled into my home theater with an exotic martini in hand, I'd flip the main control switch on a series of tube amps powering Pioneer EXs on a 10.2 setup. But this is the real world. I love audiophiles, but sometimes on these forums people refuse to admit there's such a thing as money and financial limitation. I believe in the purity of sound too.. Plato called it the "celestial movement of the heavenly spheres" and I remind myself that whenever I need to sacrifice money on audio. But people do have limitations - unless they want to go broke.

Having said that, I enjoy listening to music on these Pioneers very much. Sure, there are better speakers than these for music. But for the money, it's tough to get better.

I'm expecting these to be just fine for a set of PC monitors. They'll be driven by my, previously dedicated, headphone amp, a Marantz 1060B. Though of moderate power, this nearfield setup should be good for around 100dB maximum, which is way louder than I ever listen when sitting here. If I want a more critical listening experience, I'll pop my headphones back on. I don't see how I can lose here.
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post #567 of 5760 Old 11-26-2010, 02:24 PM
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Anyone have experience with these and the Monitor/TSi line?
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post #568 of 5760 Old 11-26-2010, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by vraxoin View Post

I'm expecting these to be just fine for a set of PC monitors. They'll be driven by my, previously dedicated, headphone amp, a Marantz 1060B. Though of moderate power, this nearfield setup should be good for around 100dB maximum, which is way louder than I ever listen when sitting here. If I want a more critical listening experience, I'll pop my headphones back on. I don't see how I can lose here.

I don't see how either. I've been using these speakers with an optical out to the receiver and it's been a major step up from headphones for me. The last project I completed I was able to catch an overly high bass tone on a male voice and tune it out of the 80hz frequency. The headphones missed it completely. I'm also using a sub though. If you want something a little bit more critical, you can always upgrade to an optical-out sound card for like $50. Those will carry 5.1 too, in case you have iTunes 5.1-encoded content or anything.
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post #569 of 5760 Old 11-26-2010, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strangelove424 View Post

In a perfect world I'd have a replica of Abbey Roads, complete with B&W 805s, and as I strolled into my home theater with an exotic martini in hand, I'd flip the main control switch on a series of tube amps powering Pioneer EXs on a 10.2 setup. But this is the real world. I love audiophiles, but sometimes on these forums people refuse to admit there's such a thing as money and financial limitation. I believe in the purity of sound too.. Plato called it the "celestial movement of the heavenly spheres" and I remind myself that whenever I need to sacrifice money on audio. But people do have limitations - unless they want to go broke.

Having said that, I enjoy listening to music on these Pioneers very much. Sure, there are better speakers than these for music. But for the money, it's tough to get better.

Exactly.

They really are very good. I may well end up using them along with my 'leftover' Pioneer sub. The problem is only a logistical one in that the old receiver that I'm starting with is a stereo two channel job from around 1979 and has no dedicated sub output so I'd need to add a crossover method and experiment more than I'd prefer to do in this project.

Instead I've been shopping full range bookshelf speakers that sound good and that gets the price up pretty quickly.

I made the qualification above because there is so much interest in these speakers, not a little of it driven by the pricing. That's natural enough, but if some interested person gets the idea that these are the holy grail end-all hands-down perfect skeakers through an incomplete understanding of what we've been saying their inevitable disapointment would be an unhappy result of our enthusiasm.

There's no telling who reads any forum and no telling what any individual might make of what is contained within a thread.
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post #570 of 5760 Old 11-26-2010, 07:37 PM
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$79 with free shipping. Quite the deal!
Wow. I have been enjoying my HT with these, but I would have loved to have saved $40 too.
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