Pioneer's Speaker Genius Hits Low Price Point - Page 197 - AVS Forum
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post #5881 of 6098 Old 08-12-2014, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by napski View Post
WOW, really? Those 22's are rated better than the towers? Amazing. So I should just stick to the entire package and sell off the sub for something better later, as suggested then?
I just meant they measured better, as far as smoother frequency response. The towers will get a bit louder, and should have better bass however. The little 22's do get surprisingly loud though.
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post #5882 of 6098 Old 08-12-2014, 09:25 PM
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I haven't heard the towers, but they measure a little worse than the 22's which I do own, and some say the 22's sound better overall. For movies it may be beneficial to get the towers, and in that case, I'd use the 22's as surrounds as the towers will be too short in most cases, and have less placement options.
Got a link to these measurements? At what frequencies do the 22s do better?
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post #5883 of 6098 Old 08-12-2014, 09:27 PM
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Got a link to these measurements? At what frequencies do the 22s do better?
I'll have to find them again. I believe even Dennis Murphy found this to be true. I'm not saying they do some frequencies better, I'm saying they have better tonal balance.

Last edited by 89grand; 08-12-2014 at 09:32 PM.
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post #5884 of 6098 Old 08-12-2014, 09:28 PM
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Bang! Pulled the trigger on the package! Should get it by next week and will post my results.
Now I have to find a receiver to make these speakers sparkle.....any suggestions?
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post #5885 of 6098 Old 08-12-2014, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by 89grand View Post
I'll have to find them again. I believe even Jim Wilson found this to be true. I'm not saying they do some frequencies better, I'm saying they have better tonal balance.
Would that still do well for more home theater than music? Would like to feel some of the movie scenes.
Noticed that Nikwasi said in his previous past that he had 4 of the towers in his setup, probably to avoid stands.
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post #5886 of 6098 Old 08-12-2014, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by napski View Post
Would that still do well for more home theater than music? Would like to feel some of the movie scenes.
Noticed that Nikwasi said in his previous past that he had 4 of the towers in his setup, probably to avoid stands.
Not sure what you mean by "feel" the movie scenes. Dont expect these speakers to rattle the windows. If you want that a nice subwoofer would be a good start.
That being said. If you have room and can properly place 4 52s thats what I would get.
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post #5887 of 6098 Old 08-12-2014, 09:43 PM
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Thanks niccolo, I'll go for the 2 SP-FS52-LR for the front then, but shouldn't I get 2 more for the back then instead of the bookshelf ones and the SP-C22 for the center and just keep an eye out for a good sub?

How is the x2000? Was thinking about investing in that!
I just bought a 120" Electric Motorized Remote Projection Screen Movie Projector Black Matt 16:9 from Amazon a few days ago (haven't received it yet), but see you have a Da-Lite High-Contrast (gray) Da-Mat screen. Is it better?

Thanks!
You could use towers for surrounds, but you might have to raise them up a little depending on your seating. Five identical speakers is a great surround setup for multi-channel music, generally done with an acoustically transparent screen. For movies, the surrounds tend to get different content than the mains, so matching is less crucial.

I'm pretty happy with the X2000, and the modest extra power over the x1000 was noticeable (surprisingly).

Black screen? That's unusual. Or is that the frame? A screen that rolls up will get wavy if not tab tensioned, FYI. Good roll up screens are pricey, though. My fixed frame screen is great in my space, but it's not exactly a budget screen.
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post #5888 of 6098 Old 08-12-2014, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by napski View Post
Would that still do well for more home theater than music? Would like to feel some of the movie scenes.
Noticed that Nikwasi said in his previous past that he had 4 of the towers in his setup, probably to avoid stands.
I used the wrong name, it was Dennis Murphy, not Jim Wilson as I said originally.
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post #5889 of 6098 Old 08-12-2014, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 89grand View Post
I used the wrong name, it was Dennis Murphy, not Jim Wilson as I said originally.
Thanks for the correction. I knew what you meant. Jim has never tested the Pioneers as far as I know.
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post #5890 of 6098 Old 08-12-2014, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by napski View Post
Would that still do well for more home theater than music? Would like to feel some of the movie scenes.
Noticed that Nikwasi said in his previous past that he had 4 of the towers in his setup, probably to avoid stands.
Yes, I have FS52s front and rear and that configuration works very well for me. I do hate speaker stands and wall mounts won't work in my HT space. Using four towers solved my placement issues and they sound great in 5.1 surround. The key is to add a strong, articulate subwoofer. It really makes all the difference.

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post #5891 of 6098 Old 08-12-2014, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post
Not sure what you mean by "feel" the movie scenes. Dont expect these speakers to rattle the windows. If you want that a nice subwoofer would be a good start.
That being said. If you have room and can properly place 4 52s thats what I would get.
What he said--speakers won't get close to the "feel" range, that's the sub(s)' job. In a small space, a fairly cheap sub will give you decent feel if properly located. In a bigger space, that'll require a bigger (and costlier) sub.
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post #5892 of 6098 Old 08-12-2014, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by niccolo View Post
What he said--speakers won't get close to the "feel" range, that's the sub(s)' job. In a small space, a fairly cheap sub will give you decent feel if properly located. In a bigger space, that'll require a bigger (and costlier) sub.
There are speakers that will reach the "feel" range but the speakers and systems to drive them are much more expensive than what would be discussed in this thread.
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post #5893 of 6098 Old 08-12-2014, 11:00 PM
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There are speakers that will reach the "feel" range but the speakers and systems to drive them are much more expensive than what would be discussed in this thread.
Fair enough, there are high-end speakers that genuinely try to be full-range. Though at the super high-end of audiophilia, the low-frequencies often get separated back out into their own modules, and for good reason, optimal speaker location for the mids and highs is unlikely to also be optimal location for the lower frequencies to be produced.

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post #5894 of 6098 Old 08-12-2014, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by 89grand View Post
I'll have to find them again. I believe even Dennis Murphy found this to be true. I'm not saying they do some frequencies better, I'm saying they have better tonal balance.
These are the measurements - and I have owned the towers and bookshelf - I prefer the
bookshelf speakers, and they sound more balanced to me and more realistic.
http://www.audioholics.com/tower-spe...s-measurements

However for mainly home theater/tv/games - the towers are a strong option due to the good prices,
and carry a little more weight, for the home theater experience.

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post #5895 of 6098 Old 08-12-2014, 11:18 PM
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Guess I'll try to cancel this order then or just refuse it when it arrives (towers are already back up in price). Probably should have gotten the 4 towers instead of the set (plus I need to sell the sub for a better one).
I wasn't looking to shake the windows, but I wanted to be "wowed" and maybe feel it a little (don't want to upset my new neighbors that much).
But will sound better than the Energy Micros, right?
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post #5896 of 6098 Old 08-12-2014, 11:23 PM
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Guess I'll try to cancel this order then or just refuse it when it arrives (towers are already back up in price). Probably should have gotten the 4 towers instead of the set (plus I need to sell the sub for a better one).
I wasn't looking to shake the windows, but I wanted to be "wowed" and maybe feel it a little (don't want to upset my new neighbors that much).
But will sound better than the Energy Micros, right?
I would expect so yes, as far as dynamics and sheer volume at least.

While I did say the BS22's had better overall tonal balance, there is often no substituting size. Very few small speakers if any, can match a tower of the same line as far as dynamics and volume are concerned.

As far as selling the sub, give it a try at least first. I'm not saying it's the cats ass in subs, but it's a lot better than no sub.
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post #5897 of 6098 Old 08-12-2014, 11:30 PM
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Well, I tired but I can't cancel the order. Amazon sure ships it out fast nowadays! Hope I can refuse it then.
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post #5898 of 6098 Old 08-12-2014, 11:33 PM
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Well, I tired but I can't cancel the order. Amazon sure ships it out fast nowadays! Hope I can refuse it then.
What exactly did you order?
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post #5899 of 6098 Old 08-12-2014, 11:38 PM
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What exactly did you order?
Pioneer SP-FS52-LR (Towers, 2 of them)
Pioneer SP-BS22-LR (Bookshelf, pair)
Pioneer SP-C22 (Center Speaker)
Pioneer SW-8MK2 (Sub)

$329 on Amazon
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post #5900 of 6098 Old 08-12-2014, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by napski View Post
Pioneer SP-FS52-LR (Towers, 2 of them)
Pioneer SP-BS22-LR (Bookshelf, pair)
Pioneer SP-C22 (Center Speaker)
Pioneer SW-8MK2 (Sub)

$329 on Amazon
Why do you want to cancel or refuse the order? Nothing for that price will even remotely touch that setup.
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post #5901 of 6098 Old 08-12-2014, 11:48 PM
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From many of the positive reviews I've read on the internet, I guess I was under the impression that this set would provide a more full surround sound movie experience, one that you can feel, but again, nothing to shake the house down.
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post #5902 of 6098 Old 08-13-2014, 12:01 AM
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From many of the positive reviews I've read on the internet, I guess I was under the impression that this set would provide a more full surround sound movie experience, one that you can feel, but again, nothing to shake the house down.
That system should get quite loud. You really need to audition the setup for yourself. You may even think "WTF are they talking about, this gets more than loud enough".

Internet opinions can be valid, but they can be misleading too.
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post #5903 of 6098 Old 08-13-2014, 01:16 AM
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From many of the positive reviews I've read on the internet, I guess I was under the impression that this set would provide a more full surround sound movie experience, one that you can feel, but again, nothing to shake the house down.
You're confused. This will absolutely provide a full surround sound movie experience, as much as pretty much *any* speaker system in the hundreds or even thousands. The only place it will differ from those other speakers, costing two times, five times, ten times as much, is in subtle differences (though those subtle differences are not unimportant to many of us, especially but not only music junkies).

You keep talking about "feel." What you need to understand is that lower-frequency, tactile sounds (e.g. a dinosaur clomping along) are best produced by separate subwoofers. There are some boutique full-range speakers, costing tens of thousands of dollars, that effectively incorporate subwoofers, but that's actually a poor choice much of the time because subs are rarely best positioned at the same place speakers need to be located. For everyone else, and for every serious home or commercial theater out there, subs are separate from speakers that handle the midrange and treble.

So you are going to need a subwoofer. And there are no viable alternatives to the Pioneer speakers that will substitute for a subwoofer, or even come close to substituting. You can return them, and spend a thousand bucks on speakers, or five thousand bucks on speakers, but you'll still need a sub, and those speakers won't provide any more "feel" than the Pioneers.

As for the Pioneer sub, it's better than nothing. But for two hundred or so bucks, you can get a real entry-level sub from a company like BIC or NXG that should be decent in a smallish room. And for around five hundred you have solid entry-level options from good internet-direct companies like SVS, HSU, Rythmik, and Reaction that should be great in a smallish room, and able to hold their own in a medium sized one. For a big space or serious "feel," there are tons of options between five hundred and a thousand bucks. Of course, as with all things, you can spend more, too, but you don't need to to have a great home theater experience.

My two cents.
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Last edited by niccolo; 08-13-2014 at 01:22 AM.
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post #5904 of 6098 Old 08-13-2014, 01:24 AM
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But will sound better than the Energy Micros, right?
It will dance on the Energy Micros

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post #5905 of 6098 Old 08-13-2014, 01:43 AM
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I've been tempted to see how my bookshelves would sound in place of the towers, and possibly move the towers to the bedroom for wifey. Only hesitant b/c I've got my towers in the perfect spot and I'd hate to fiddle with that all over again if the bookshelves don't do it for me. On another note, has anyone tried/though of using two of the Pioneer centers as mains or even surrounds? Twice the mid-bass cone area of the bookshelves seems like it couldn't hurt.
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post #5906 of 6098 Old 08-13-2014, 01:54 AM
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The center speaker doesn't seem to have twice the bass...if that's what you are getting at. It's sensitivity seems about the same as well. I see no advantage to doing that. Especially considering how great the BS22's are. I'm at my computer jamming Radar Love on 22's as I type this.
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post #5907 of 6098 Old 08-13-2014, 03:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Dark Matter View Post
I've been tempted to see how my bookshelves would sound in place of the towers, and possibly move the towers to the bedroom for wifey. Only hesitant b/c I've got my towers in the perfect spot and I'd hate to fiddle with that all over again if the bookshelves don't do it for me. On another note, has anyone tried/though of using two of the Pioneer centers as mains or even surrounds? Twice the mid-bass cone area of the bookshelves seems like it couldn't hurt.
Horizontally oriented centers involve big compromises already, why would you want to replicate that unnecessarily in other channels?
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post #5908 of 6098 Old 08-13-2014, 03:17 AM
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The center can be used in a vertical orientation (which doesn't have the lobing issues in the horizontal orientation). I know others have used it in that fashion.
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post #5909 of 6098 Old 08-13-2014, 03:41 AM
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Horizontally oriented centers involve big compromises already, why would you want to replicate that unnecessarily in other channels?
I should have been more clear; I meant using the center speakers oriented vertically.
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post #5910 of 6098 Old 08-13-2014, 03:44 AM
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The center can be used in a vertical orientation (which doesn't have the lobing issues in the horizontal orientation). I know others have used it in that fashion.
Thanks; I will see if I can find some evaluations of this setup online.
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