Pioneer's Speaker Genius Hits Low Price Point - Page 208 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6211 of 6221 Old 04-14-2015, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post
I have a BS-41, but I haven't tried swapping in the Vifa, mainly because I was afraid of damaging the mesh grill. You would need to cut a notch in the routing to let the negative terminal of the tweeter pass through. I'll try and find time today or tomorrow to do the swap and I'll report what I find. I'm sure it won't be perfect without a Xover mod, but it might make an improvement. We'll see.
That's awesome! I don't think the grill will be able to be reused since it sits in a channel molded in the tweeter itself. Do you use the Vifa D27TG-35/06? I'm guessing not since the cost is nowhere close to $11 but that's the only reference I could find.

Last edited by crakarjax; 04-14-2015 at 10:33 AM.
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post #6212 of 6221 Old 04-14-2015, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by crakarjax View Post
That's awesome! I don't think the grill will be able to be reused since it sits in a channel molded in the tweeter itself. Do you use the Vifa D27TG-35/06? I'm guessing not since the cost is nowhere close to $11 but that's the only reference I could find.

Nope--it's this puppy: http://www.parts-express.com/tymphan...eter--264-1040
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post #6213 of 6221 Old 04-14-2015, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crakarjax View Post
That's awesome! I don't think the grill will be able to be reused since it sits in a channel molded in the tweeter itself. Do you use the Vifa D27TG-35/06? I'm guessing not since the cost is nowhere close to $11 but that's the only reference I could find.
OK. So I managed to get the grill off without damaging it, only to find that the baffle of the Vifa is too small to screw into the routing. But I did an ad hoc mounting and held everything together by replacing the grill just to get an idea of the before and after. A better candidate for a replacement tweeter might be the venerable Parts Express Dayton Silkie, which has an oversize baffle is cheap and a solid performer. Here's how the stock speaker measures (yes, there are tweeter issues):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/o3snvy706k...G-005.png?dl=0


And here's how the Vifa measures with no crossover mod.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ti1hpusaui...G-006.png?dl=0



No banana. If you put maybe a 3 ohm resister in series with the wire to the positive tweeter terminal, you might be able to get the treble sort of right, but there would still be peaks that would require a complete crossover mod to iron out.
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post #6214 of 6221 Old 04-14-2015, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post
OK. So I managed to get the grill off without damaging it, only to find that the baffle of the Vifa is too small to screw into the routing. But I did an ad hoc mounting and held everything together by replacing the grill just to get an idea of the before and after. A better candidate for a replacement tweeter might be the venerable Parts Express Dayton Silkie, which has an oversize baffle is cheap and a solid performer. Here's how the stock speaker measures (yes, there are tweeter issues):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/o3snvy706k...G-005.png?dl=0


And here's how the Vifa measures with no crossover mod.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ti1hpusaui...G-006.png?dl=0



No banana. If you put maybe a 3 ohm resister in series with the wire to the positive tweeter terminal, you might be able to get the treble sort of right, but there would still be peaks that would require a complete crossover mod to iron out.
That's really cool... I actually have those dayton tweeters in a bookshelf kit that I put together years ago -- maybe I'll swap them in and see how they look. Do you have to calibrate for your mic with a reference speaker or something when recording to make those response curves? I'm wondering if my audyssey calibration mic will suffice...
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post #6215 of 6221 Old 04-14-2015, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crakarjax View Post
That's really cool... I actually have those dayton tweeters in a bookshelf kit that I put together years ago -- maybe I'll swap them in and see how they look. Do you have to calibrate for your mic with a reference speaker or something when recording to make those response curves? I'm wondering if my audyssey calibration mic will suffice...
I use what is probably the best measurement system available--Praxis. It has a calibrated mic and shows you the inherent response of the speaker from about 200 Hz on up. Below that point, the measurements introduce room effects, and things get very bumpy. I cut the measurements off at 200 Hz to avoid confusion. I could never make much out of the Audyssey plots, and in general it's not a good idea to use any Audyssey-induced equalization above 200 Hz. It will just mess with the crossover integration and produce very unpredictable results. Audyssey can help with room bass modes, and I would restrict its use to the bass region.
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post #6216 of 6221 Old 04-15-2015, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post
I use what is probably the best measurement system available--Praxis. It has a calibrated mic and shows you the inherent response of the speaker from about 200 Hz on up. Below that point, the measurements introduce room effects, and things get very bumpy. I cut the measurements off at 200 Hz to avoid confusion. I could never make much out of the Audyssey plots, and in general it's not a good idea to use any Audyssey-induced equalization above 200 Hz. It will just mess with the crossover integration and produce very unpredictable results. Audyssey can help with room bass modes, and I would restrict its use to the bass region.
Well I can't drop that kind of money on a calibration mic, even if I want to I guess I'll just throw them in and see if they sound ok as mains with some well-listened to music.

I'm not sure my receiver (TX-SR876) allows Audyssey equalization only below 200Hz but I'll look into it and give a listen if it does -- thanks for the tip! It's disappointing to hear though, as it shouldn't be too difficult to create a measured equalization that compensates for the frequency response of each speaker (although I'm not sure what crossover integration means), as long as you have enough frequency bins.
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post #6217 of 6221 Old 04-15-2015, 11:35 AM
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Only the newest versions of Audyssey do a good job with subwoofer frequencies.
You can (and should ) get a calibrated mic for <$100. Then you can get good measurements and know what needs to be improved:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-aud...rew-setup.html

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #6218 of 6221 Old 04-16-2015, 04:56 PM
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Only the newest versions of Audyssey do a good job with subwoofer frequencies.
You can (and should ) get a calibrated mic for <$100. Then you can get good measurements and know what needs to be improved:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-aud...rew-setup.html
Very cool, bookmarked that.

Turns out American Express is awesome; I purchased my BS41 set with my Amex in 2013 and just received a refund for the purchase price from Amex because they warranty all electronics purchases (and more) for 1 year after the mfg warranty runs out! Maybe I'll put that money toward a calibrated mic...

Last edited by crakarjax; 04-20-2015 at 09:03 PM.
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post #6219 of 6221 Old 04-17-2015, 07:28 AM
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^crakarjax,

Be sure to download Jerry Austin's step by step guide on using REW with USB mic. It is a treasure trove of useful information for newbies who want to carry out an in room frequency sweep of their speakers and find ways to address sound quality issues.

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post #6220 of 6221 Old Today, 06:20 PM
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Are Pioneer SP-FS52-LR's still getting good reviews these days? Looking to pair it with the following:

Denon AVR-E300 receiver
Pioneer SP-C22 center speaker
very old subwoofer

room size - 19ft by 23 ft (bonus room so carpet and regular drywall walls)
tv shows and movies only

Basically, the c22 center speaker is my only source of sound and while it's great for vocals, I need something more for for the rest of the sound.

Budget is around $200 for a pair so hoping the FS52's go on sale soon if they are still good.

Thanks
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post #6221 of 6221 Old Today, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by bryn987 View Post
Are Pioneer SP-FS52-LR's still getting good reviews these days? Looking to pair it with the following:

Denon AVR-E300 receiver
Pioneer SP-C22 center speaker
very old subwoofer

room size - 19ft by 23 ft (bonus room so carpet and regular drywall walls)
tv shows and movies only

Basically, the c22 center speaker is my only source of sound and while it's great for vocals, I need something more for for the rest of the sound.

Budget is around $200 for a pair so hoping the FS52's go on sale soon if they are still good.

Thanks
Particularly since you already have the c22 I don't think you can beat the 52s for the price assuming you wait for a sale.
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Pioneer Andrew Jones Sp Fs52 Flr Stand Loudspeaker , Pioneer Andrew Jones Designed Bookshelf Loudspeakers Sp Bs22 Lr , Pioneer , Speakers Subwoofers , Speaker Systems , Pioneer Sp Bs41 Lr 130 Watt Rms 2 Way Speaker , Elite Vsx 31 A V Receiver



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