Pioneer's Speaker Genius Hits Low Price Point - Page 215 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6421 of 6441 Old 01-27-2017, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevog View Post
still at least 6-8" below my "seated" ear level.
You must be rather tall. lol Or, your couch/chair sits really high. Anyway, I'm still extremely happy with the Pioneer Elite towers. What a bargain. And I've only listened to music. I have 11.2 all set up and ready, I've just been waiting on a front projector. Gonna wait til the Summer then that's it. Will pull the trigger then.

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post #6422 of 6441 Old 01-30-2017, 01:12 PM
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I'm assembling the items for a home theatre in living room and already had some old Paradigm Phantoms and Titans for fronts and rears, and recently bought (new not used) a Pioneer SP-C22 centre channel speaker and a Klipsch subwoofer so I have a 5.1 system. So far in my testing everything sounds decent although my Paradigm speakers are about 25 years old and may need old-age repairs (new crossover capacitors maybe?) as they don't sound quite as good as I remember.

I have the SP-C22 centre sitting on a low cabinet. Audyssey set it for 60Hz crossover and I can hear some bass from the rear ports that is not coming from the front. The Pioneer C22 manual recommends receiver CC crossover 100 Hz. So I will need to compare the crossover settings 60 and 100Hz.

Soon I will need to buy or build a cabinet or shelf system for the SP-C22, AVR etc (and maybe TV if not wall mounted). Is it OK to put the ported C22 centre in a cabinet space closed at all 4 sides and back, or should it be placed on an open shelf or bracket mount?

HT being assembled in 27x13' living room: Sony XBR55X700D. Denon receiver AVR-S720W. Speakers for 5.1: Paradigm Phantom (front L/R), Pioneer SP-C22 (centre), Paradigm Titan (rear L/R), Klipsch SW-110B 10" subwoofer. Video sources: Apple TV 3 (Netflix etc), Sony Blu Ray.
Den main hangout system: 40" TV fed with Telus IPTV, Klipsch Promedia 2.1 speakers.

Last edited by thousandaire; 01-30-2017 at 08:15 PM.
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post #6423 of 6441 Old 01-30-2017, 01:23 PM
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As long as it has some "breathing room" (the manual should specify how much), you should be okay. Just be sure to line it up with the front edge of the shelf to minimize interference.
As close to ear level is preferable, so above the TV would be better than below.
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post #6424 of 6441 Old 01-30-2017, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by thousandaire View Post
Is it OK to put the ported C22 centre in a cabinet space closed at all 4 sides and back, or should it be placed on an open shelf or bracket mount?
It's not OK to put a speaker in an echo chamber like that and it's less than ideal to try to match a new budget center speaker with quarter-century old front left and right speakers. Audyssey will not be able to magically make these speakers match to give a consistent front sound field throughout the range of output.

Leaving aside the question of why you have just a center speaker, you might like to consider using a phantom center. If your front left and right speakers are capable and your receiver and room well calibrated, you can avoid all the compromises of the "center" speaker and have quality surround sound. If you're not convinced, then consider how stereo imaging works.
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post #6425 of 6441 Old 01-30-2017, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by AJCxZ0 View Post
It's not OK to put a speaker in an echo chamber like that and it's less than ideal to try to match a new budget center speaker with quarter-century old front left and right speakers. Audyssey will not be able to magically make these speakers match to give a consistent front sound field throughout the range of output.

Leaving aside the question of why you have just a center speaker, you might like to consider using a phantom center. If your front left and right speakers are capable and your receiver and room well calibrated, you can avoid all the compromises of the "center" speaker and have quality surround sound. If you're not convinced, then consider how stereo imaging works.
Hmmm oh now I see what you mean - a phantom or "virtual" centre channel (at first I thought you meant running another Paradigm Phantom speaker as centre). I will try configuring without the centre channel and see how that sounds. I have a Klipsch "Promedia 2.1" system for a TV in a smaller room and it works fairly well with no CC.

I edited my previous post to clarify, I'm running the 4 old Paradigm speakers plus the new centre channel and sub in a 5.1 system. I was playing the "Terminator" Blu Ray last night and it sounded decent. Cranked it up a little, I hope the neighbours didn't hear it.

I got the Pioneer centre as it gets good reviews and is inexpensive. I compared it to a Phantom by running them as a stereo pair and they sound similar except the Phantom low end is 40 Hz while the C22 is 55. Also I was thinking if I decide to ditch the Paradigms I could buy the matching Pioneer surround speakers (maybe 4 of the columns). I have read that some people are running 5 of the Pioneer columns with one as a centre, something like what you are suggesting.

My old Paradigm speakers sometimes sound great depending on the media and I think they are as good as new but at other times I think there is something a bit "off". They were entry-level speakers of that brand so probably don't have the best components that might give a longer life. I'm now reading that many speakers from back then used drivers with foam surrounds than can dry-rot, and crossover electrolytic capacitors that degrade after a decade or 2, now they use parts that should not have those longevity problems.

HT being assembled in 27x13' living room: Sony XBR55X700D. Denon receiver AVR-S720W. Speakers for 5.1: Paradigm Phantom (front L/R), Pioneer SP-C22 (centre), Paradigm Titan (rear L/R), Klipsch SW-110B 10" subwoofer. Video sources: Apple TV 3 (Netflix etc), Sony Blu Ray.
Den main hangout system: 40" TV fed with Telus IPTV, Klipsch Promedia 2.1 speakers.
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post #6426 of 6441 Old 05-25-2017, 03:33 PM
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Help/Advice

Found a pair of old Speakers in a cupboard, and would like to try them out. However, I have no idea what kind of connectors these are. Ideally I'd like to get an adaptor so I can hook them up to my PC or MP3 Player. Is this possible?
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post #6427 of 6441 Old 05-25-2017, 05:41 PM
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Wild guess is that they were meant to attach to an HTIB.
Just cut that connector off and attach the two wires to the connector of your choice.
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post #6428 of 6441 Old 05-25-2017, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigGeoff View Post
Found a pair of old Speakers in a cupboard, and would like to try them out. However, I have no idea what kind of connectors these are. Ideally I'd like to get an adaptor so I can hook them up to my PC or MP3 Player. Is this possible?
Welcome to avs. In the future, please don't re-direct a members thread towards an off topic. If you have a separate topic or question, it's better to start your own thread.

Thanks
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post #6429 of 6441 Old 05-25-2017, 07:41 PM
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Hey guys, question about my setup....

I just bought a Denon x3300 that has the Audessey XT32. I also bought the Pioneer Elite center and Pioneer Atmos Elite EBS73 LR, also got the regular Pioneer surrounds.

I don't know anything about setup. My main question is the crossover stuff. Will the Audessey walk me through everything alright, or is there anything specific I should make sure to adjust? Also is it better if my surrounds are to the side of me, or a little behind me? I've also heard that sometimes a receiver will call out the front speakers as large and it's good to change them to small. Don't know if that applies to me at all.

Television -- 65" LG Oled C6
Multimedia -- Xbox One S
Receiver -- Denon X3300
Front Speakers -- Pioneer Elite Atmos SP-EBS73, Pioneer Elite Center SP=EC73
Surrounds -- Pioneer SP-BS22
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post #6430 of 6441 Old 05-25-2017, 07:56 PM
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post #6431 of 6441 Old 07-09-2017, 08:30 PM
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I just bought a pair of Pioneer SP-BS22-LRs for $68. This will be my first home theater setup. I was wondering what suggestions for a good center and sub would be. I'll mainly be using them to watch movies, tv, and listen to some music. I'd prefer to keep the price down to under $100 for a center, but I might go closer to $200 if there was an incredible deal. My living room isn't huge, so I'm thinking I'll stick with a 3.1 for now.
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post #6432 of 6441 Old 07-09-2017, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midfield99 View Post
I just bought a pair of Pioneer SP-BS22-LRs for $68. This will be my first home theater setup. I was wondering what suggestions for a good center and sub would be. I'll mainly be using them to watch movies, tv, and listen to some music. I'd prefer to keep the price down to under $100 for a center, but I might go closer to $200 if there was an incredible deal. My living room isn't huge, so I'm thinking I'll stick with a 3.1 for now.
Looks like you can get the matching center channel on Amazon for $99 right now. I have the "original version" (C21 I think?) and I like it a lot - matches really well with my FS51 fronts.
I'm not sure what subs are currently considered the best bang for the buck.

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post #6433 of 6441 Old 07-09-2017, 09:26 PM
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Looks like you can get the matching center channel on Amazon for $99 right now. I have the "original version" (C21 I think?) and I like it a lot - matches really well with my FS51 fronts.
I'm not sure what subs are currently considered the best bang for the buck.
I thought that there were a lot of complaints about the c22 on this forum. I was under the impression it was considered a bad center.
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post #6434 of 6441 Old 07-10-2017, 01:23 AM
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Originally Posted by midfield99 View Post
I just bought a pair of Pioneer SP-BS22-LRs for $68. This will be my first home theater setup. I was wondering what suggestions for a good center and sub would be. I'll mainly be using them to watch movies, tv, and listen to some music. I'd prefer to keep the price down to under $100 for a center, but I might go closer to $200 if there was an incredible deal. My living room isn't huge, so I'm thinking I'll stick with a 3.1 for now.
http://philharmonicaudio.com/aa.html#cc
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post #6435 of 6441 Old 07-10-2017, 07:11 AM
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I thought that there were a lot of complaints about the c22 on this forum. I was under the impression it was considered a bad center.
It tends to lack some clarity for dialogue compared to other more expensive speakers, but I would not call it bad. I started with the same speakers with the matching centre and was fine with it, but upgraded to KEF Q series with the recent clearout. For most TV watching the Pioneers were good value for the money, and really good for music. If your AVR has good calibration software and the option of setting separate crossovers for the speakers, you can tweak the centre to improve dialogue clarity somewhat. This is not to say that the C22 is not listenable, it is just not as good as more expensive centres. Just my opinion.
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post #6436 of 6441 Old 07-10-2017, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by BigGeoff View Post
Found a pair of old Speakers in a cupboard, and would like to try them out. However, I have no idea what kind of connectors these are. Ideally I'd like to get an adaptor so I can hook them up to my PC or MP3 Player. Is this possible?
It appears to be a proprietary connector. However, looking at the wires leading up to it, one appears to have a stripe and the other does not, in that case you just need to cut the connector off and strip the ends of the wires. Then the only thing to determine is which is the positive and which is the negative. I know with bigger speakers like a sub you can connect it to a 9 volt and see which way the cone moves in or out, I have heard this somewhere on here but I do NOT know if it works or the potential to damage the speaker if any. But considering how small those speakers appear to be I think connecting it to a battery might be a bad idea.
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post #6437 of 6441 Old 07-10-2017, 08:59 AM
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This has to be the best deal around!

Check out Dennis's Affordable Accuracy Speakers too. Not quite as good as the $ 68.00 deal you got for the BS22's (210.00 + shipping), but do some research and read what other users are saying about this speaker. You could always move the BS22's to one of the side channels. I have a pair of BS22's as my computer speakers, and am very happy with them, wish they were smaller, for on a desk, but they do sound great! I have heard that there are some quality control issues with the entire AJ Pioneer line, some people rave about the sound, others have complaints. I believe Dennis did some testing and found that different sets of the same model speaker performed differently.

Here is what Dennis does to the stock Pioneer C22 Center Channel:

This MTM center channel is an extensively modified version of the popular Pioneer Electronics C22 loudspeaker. Although the Pioneer speaker is an excellent buy and will perform very well in many applications, it lacks the clarity and neutrality of the Affordable Accuracy monitor. The tweeter is the principal limitation. We have replaced the stock tweeter with an excellent unit from Vifa of Scandinavia. The new nine-element crossover optimizes the response with the new tweeter to achieve a level of performance consistent with that of the monitor. Both speakers feature the same black finish and voicing over the critical midrange frequencies. The Affordable Accuracy center channel is priced at $125 plus shipping.
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post #6438 of 6441 Old 08-11-2017, 12:48 PM
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I have a 5.1 system consisting of AJ Pioneer FS-21 floorstanding speakers, C21 center channel, and BS21 bookshelves for surrounds. I recently purchased a pair of Energy CF-30 floorstanding speakers for a really good price but I can't decide whether or not I want to keep them. I've demoed the new Energy towers and I find them much brighter than the Pioneers, but I haven't really had extensive testing yet. The vocals are much clearer due to the brighter sound but that shouldn't matter too much since vocals will be playing out of the center channel.

I have a couple of concerns:
1. Do you think these are worthwhile upgrades or is it more of a lateral move (same quality, but different sound)? I'll be able to sell my Pioneer FS-21 for the same price as what I paid for the Energy CF-30 so it wouldn't cost me anything to swap.
2. I'll have to get a Energy CC-10 center channel to timbre match, and I've found a couple of used one for a reasonable price. Is the CC-10 timbre matched with the CF-30 or should I be getting a CC-5?
3. Is the CC-10 center channel much better than my Pioneer C21? I'm not able to audition the Energy CC-10 so I'll have to go by reviews and advice from the forums on this.

Lastly, what's a good way to audition speakers?! I swapped out my right FS-21 speaker for the Energy CF-30 and was flipping back and forth between the left and right channels.
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post #6439 of 6441 Old 08-11-2017, 01:30 PM
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Ignoring FS-21 vs. SP-FS51-LR,

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Originally Posted by xmai77 View Post
I recently purchased a pair of Energy CF-30 floorstanding speakers for a really good price but I can't decide whether or not I want to keep them. I've demoed the new Energy towers and I find them much brighter than the Pioneers, but I haven't really had extensive testing yet.
Your question really reduces to one of which set of matching speakers you prefer for your entire listening environment once properly calibrated to the room, which leaves the operative question being

Quote:
Lastly, what's a good way to audition speakers?!
Move between two isolated proximate identical rooms (except for the speakers) playing the same variety of material, spending long periods of time in each over a longer period. Next best is flipping back and forth in the same room like in a typical audio demo room, but not one speaker at a time.

Since you have just the Energy floorstanding speakers, a good practical test would be to spend time listening just two channel sound (even when you have surround sources) with each being properly calibrated for the room. This requires support from your receiver, else many re-calibrations (which will interfere with useful quick A/B testing). If you develop a strong preference for the Energy speakers, then you can buy the rest and replace the Pioneers. Otherwise you might want to use them for two channel work elsewhere, such as for an office*.

This might not be the right thread for good advice on Energy speakers, but I'm sure you won't have to go far to find one.


*[That's where I have my SP-FS51-LR and SP-BS41-LR.]
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post #6440 of 6441 Old 08-11-2017, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xmai77 View Post
I have a 5.1 system consisting of AJ Pioneer FS-21 floorstanding speakers, C21 center channel, and BS21 bookshelves for surrounds. I recently purchased a pair of Energy CF-30 floorstanding speakers for a really good price but I can't decide whether or not I want to keep them. I've demoed the new Energy towers and I find them much brighter than the Pioneers, but I haven't really had extensive testing yet. The vocals are much clearer due to the brighter sound but that shouldn't matter too much since vocals will be playing out of the center channel.

I have a couple of concerns:
1. Do you think these are worthwhile upgrades or is it more of a lateral move (same quality, but different sound)? I'll be able to sell my Pioneer FS-21 for the same price as what I paid for the Energy CF-30 so it wouldn't cost me anything to swap.
2. I'll have to get a Energy CC-10 center channel to timbre match, and I've found a couple of used one for a reasonable price. Is the CC-10 timbre matched with the CF-30 or should I be getting a CC-5?
3. Is the CC-10 center channel much better than my Pioneer C21? I'm not able to audition the Energy CC-10 so I'll have to go by reviews and advice from the forums on this.

Lastly, what's a good way to audition speakers?! I swapped out my right FS-21 speaker for the Energy CF-30 and was flipping back and forth between the left and right channels.
If you are able to hook up both pairs of speakers and A/B them while matching the volume levels with an SPL meter or SPL app on your smart phone that would be ideal.

Better yet have someone else flip them from a to b.

If your receiver doesn't do that you could buy something like this; the small investment would be worth it IMHO.

https://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_...yABEgLOFvD_BwE

If you have a very bright room the rather veiled sound of the Pioneers might be to your taste, if not a bright room with a lot of reflective surfaces I would expect the Energy would separate itself quite easily.

I've listened to the Bookshelf version and found it very veiled; almost as if a dish towel were hanging over the speaker, but that's just me.
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post #6441 of 6441 Old 08-12-2017, 09:19 PM
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I'm not sure what subs are currently considered the best bang for the buck.
Check out Accessories4less Sub-woofers, they have Sub-woofers starting at $75.00.
http://www.accessories4less.com/?typ...tore_price.asc
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