Pioneer's Speaker Genius Hits Low Price Point - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 6024 Old 12-02-2010, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chukronos View Post

Sorry, if it has already been asked, but would it be okay to mount the BS-41's on their side? I am limited in space for the speakers. 12" high is too tall for where I can place them. However, if I could turn them on their sides, they would fit just fine. I do not want to harm the speakers.

Yeah, they'll work on their side but they'll be kind of roly-poly unless you do something. A good answer would be to try to get some of the molded rubber 'feet' that come with the center speaker in the line but you can devise something that'll work to keep the speaker planted.

Also, watch out where the rear port is firing - you don't want it backed into a solid surface because you'll have reflected sound - maybe even a reverb. I don't know, maybe you'd like that.
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post #632 of 6024 Old 12-02-2010, 11:33 AM
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Here's a little something:

Last night I treated my wife to the Starz network creation called "The Crazies". The movie sucked, of course, but I recorded it just to harrass my wife for her 'movie a day after dinner' regimen. At the end of the tedious thing there's a musical track playing while the credits roll by and it set me back. It sounded so pretty coming out of the HT Pioneers that it left me with no doubt that these speakers are going to be just fine as stereo bookshelves in my downstairs shop. The sound was clear, musical, and actually pretty soothing, especially after having just sat through such a crummy movie. I switched to 2-channel stereo mode and was rewarded with a fine soundstage mixed stereo sound. I really was impressed.

I bought the (not here yet) last two BS-41's at the great price to use temporarily once I complete this computer audio setup I'm doing. I figured they'd at least give me time to make a good choice in some audiophile performance high price spread for down there.

After hearing that little soundtrack I think I'll have plenty of time to make the choice of expensive stuff, and I think that the bar will be high before I decide to replace the Pioneers.

This is a "take it however you want" post. I'm not playing fanboy for these speakers - just putting out some impressions from someone who's had a pretty good ear for over forty years of enjoying fine performances. I'm thinking that these speakers are better than their price would lead a buyer to expect, but they may need some time living with them to fully realize that....it's a kinda' subtle thing we have here.
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post #633 of 6024 Old 12-02-2010, 04:56 PM
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Anyone got an idea of placement for these speakers?

My roomate is in the middle of moving out so the room is dirty and cluttered but I wanted to get a shot in because my speaker wire and banana plugs come in tomorrow and he should be out by tomorrow.

http://img502.imageshack.us/i/1202101934.jpg/

http://img249.imageshack.us/i/1202101936.jpg/

http://img10.imageshack.us/i/1202101936a.jpg/

Gaming chair is the listening spot of course. I cannot move my gaming chair up because that will make me be less than 7 feet away from my 32" LED TV and I don't like being that close to it.


As you can see in the picture the surround speakers will be about 1'6" away from my ears at an angle and about 1'3" away from the back wall. Is this too close to the wall or my ears? Should I just put the speakers directly to my left and right and have them at 90 degrees or leave them like that? I have the mic calibration with my receiver so I guess that will fix the back speakers being so close to my ears.....?

http://img535.imageshack.us/i/1202101935.jpg/

http://img163.imageshack.us/i/1202101935a.jpg/

Last pic shows about where both speakers will be. The right one (as you're looking at the picture) will be on a nightstand further back, aligned with the left one. Any comments on this setup?


EDIT: They will also be about 2' above ear level.
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post #634 of 6024 Old 12-02-2010, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chukronos View Post

Sorry, if it has already been asked, but would it be okay to mount the BS-41's on their side? I am limited in space for the speakers. 12" high is too tall for where I can place them. However, if I could turn them on their sides, they would fit just fine. I do not want to harm the speakers.

They will play on their sides - however, they will sound different. They
were designed to play vertical. If you can live with the comprimises -
then you will be ok. And yes, the rear port in a tight space may be
a problem.

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Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #635 of 6024 Old 12-02-2010, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krs View Post

I'm thinking that these speakers are better than their price would lead a buyer to expect, but they may need some time living with them to fully realize that....it's a kinda' subtle thing we have here.

For people use to listening to cheap speakers - with raspy and grainy voices,
enhanced sibilants, hollow voiced and shouty sounds, a hot treble or the bass
that is boomy - then this would be an adjustment. Some may not survive this.
I understand that the Pioneer's are not for every one - however to get this
type of open, clean and balanced sound, at this price - is good for those on
a tight budget for now.

__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #636 of 6024 Old 12-03-2010, 10:56 AM
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No comments on my placement of these speakers?
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post #637 of 6024 Old 12-03-2010, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suikostinger View Post
No comments on my placement of these speakers?
It is hard to comment - I need to see every thing in one picture.
I would not enjoy speakers 1.6 feet from my ears. The port needs
to have room from the walls. The tweeters of the front speakers
need to be near ear level for best sound.

__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #638 of 6024 Old 12-03-2010, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post
It is hard to comment - I need to see every thing in one picture.
I would not enjoy speakers 1.6 feet from my ears. The port needs
to have room from the walls. The tweeters of the front speakers
need to be near ear level for best sound.
I'm setting up the room now.
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post #639 of 6024 Old 12-03-2010, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

For people use to listening to cheap speakers - with raspy and grainy voices,
enhanced sibilants, hollow voiced and shouty sounds, a hot treble or the bass
that is boomy - then this would be an adjustment. Some may not survive this.
I understand that the Pioneer's are not for every one - however to get this
type of open, clean and balanced sound, at this price - is good for those on
a tight budget for now.

That describes quite a few SOURCE recordings which have hot sibilance and funky dynamics. The way you are judging a speaker's sound is not quite a good idea. Only hand picked audio material should be used to evaluate speakers and it should be material that you have heard on multiple types of speakers and even on good, higher efficiency speakers, it sounds smooth.

The reason for making sure your source recording is a good standard for testing is because quite a few speakers sound unnaturally smooth and aren't reproducing the source properly. You SHOULD hear a recording with "scratchy" vocals as "scratchy" if your speakers are doing their job. What you SHOULDN'T hear is "scratch" vocals on a recording you know to be smooth and without grain on multiple types of speakers.

The problem with most speakers today isn't 'scratchy' sounding vocals or 'hot' highs. It's resonance in the midbass region with the cabinet, especially with voice sounds. That is the most annoying flaw in my opinion. The opposite side of that issue is speakers that are so 'dead' that it's obviously sound coming from a point source in the room.
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post #640 of 6024 Old 12-03-2010, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy91 View Post

That describes quite a few SOURCE recordings which have hot sibilance and funky dynamics. The way you are judging a speaker's sound is not quite a good idea. Only hand picked audio material should be used to evaluate speakers and it should be material that you have heard on multiple types of speakers and even on good, higher efficiency speakers, it sounds smooth.

The reason for making sure your source recording is a good standard for testing is because quite a few speakers sound unnaturally smooth and aren't reproducing the source properly. You SHOULD hear a recording with "scratchy" vocals as "scratchy" if your speakers are doing their job. What you SHOULDN'T hear is "scratch" vocals on a recording you know to be smooth and without grain on multiple types of speakers.

I have been auditioning speakers for the last 20 years - I have
owned 53 sets of speakers so far. I have played all types of
music - good and bad recordings. I do have my favorite hand
picked material. I have treated the resonance in many cabinets.

__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #641 of 6024 Old 12-03-2010, 08:16 PM
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UGH! Now I have a new dilemma. I was short of reaching one of my rear speakers with my speaker wire. I have the wire with a stripe on the positive and the other on the negative. Now I want to extend that speaker wire with speaker wire I had left over a long time ago...BUT that old speaker wire has no stripe writing or anything. I know it doesn't matter what goes to red or what goes to black as long as they are all universal. But with the old cord that I want to connect to the new one with twisting and electrical tape, I don't know which is which. Does it still not matter? As long as I have the same cord in the negative in both the speaker and the receiver?

Can't wait to hear these things tomorrow.
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post #642 of 6024 Old 12-03-2010, 09:52 PM
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suiko, as long as you connect the neg post of the speaker to neg post of the receiver, and positive to positive, it'll work ok. Just make sure there's no shorting.
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post #643 of 6024 Old 12-03-2010, 10:15 PM
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Suiko, which speakers do you have? I was sitting less than 2 ft from the BS41's, and I was too close. I was using them as my computer speakers in the near field, and I just felt it did not sound as good as if I was an extra 2-3 ft back. I gave them to my gf, and she's happy with them. Her desk is 6 ft wide, and much deeper to my 3 ft wide, 2 ft deep desk.
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post #644 of 6024 Old 12-04-2010, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UberGamer View Post
hey all, i been reading over these threads and some others in other threads, and i have pulled the trigger on getting the BS51, c21, and the BS41 for rears. I am going to be using JBL sub 10" 150 watt sub, that i have with my prior set up, its good for now, but gonna be upgrading that soon. I currently have the 1020 and was wondering if its worth it or should i bump up to the 1120 just because of the extra wattage to power each of these speakers. The pre outs are a bonus if i ever decide to upgrade later. but not a deal breaker, everything else im okay with out. In my other thread, one of the fellow posters suggested 3 other receivers that will do, if not better than the 1120 and 1020. What do you guys think?

Onkyo 707
http://www.accessories4less.com/make...eceiver/1.html

Marantz 5004
http://www.accessories4less.com/make...eceiver/1.html

Yamaha 1065
http://www.6ave.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=YAMRXV1065BL
I'm moving towards the exact same setup you are and have already picked up the towers and center. They are plenty loud in my mid-sized apartment with the 1020 and about 20db to spare on the dial.
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post #645 of 6024 Old 12-04-2010, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustChoIt View Post
Suiko, which speakers do you have? I was sitting less than 2 ft from the BS41's, and I was too close. I was using them as my computer speakers in the near field, and I just felt it did not sound as good as if I was an extra 2-3 ft back. I gave them to my gf, and she's happy with them. Her desk is 6 ft wide, and much deeper to my 3 ft wide, 2 ft deep desk.
Bs41 for rears and fronts and the C21 for center.

Here is my front setup.

http://img593.imageshack.us/i/1204101428a.jpg/
http://img72.imageshack.us/i/1204101428b.jpg/

I have the center low to the ground, but as you can see I propped it up so it would be aiming for my ears. I'm bad at telling if it's aimed there there at me but I think it's pretty close. Even though the center is low to the ground, it's still OK as long as it's aimed at my ears right?

and here is my back.

http://img715.imageshack.us/i/1204101205a.jpg/
http://img227.imageshack.us/i/1204101207.jpg/

I knew them thick season sets of Stargate SG1 would come in handy one day!!! What they are sitting on are temporary ( I think). I still don't know yet if I should Just have them facing each other or inward towards my sitting position. The reason I really don't want them to face each other is because I'm scared of the the back wall making them sound weird. The backs are about 3' away from my ears. Any comments?
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post #646 of 6024 Old 12-04-2010, 04:47 PM
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Also I heard that the BS41's AREN'T magnetically shielded, doesn't that mean I shouldn't place them close to my TV.......?
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post #647 of 6024 Old 12-04-2010, 05:02 PM
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Not at all, you have a flat screen LCD TV which wont be affected by non shielded speakers. That only affects the old CRT heavy tube TV's.

Get some stands though and spread the BS41's apart.

And get a better camera too. Those pictures were very dim.

Afro GT
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post #648 of 6024 Old 12-04-2010, 05:05 PM
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And find a way to raise the center channel up.

__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #649 of 6024 Old 12-04-2010, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

Not at all, you have a flat screen LCD TV which wont be affected by non shielded speakers. That only affects the old CRT heavy tube TV's.

Get some stands though and spread the BS41's apart.

And get a better camera too. Those pictures were very dim.

I used my 3 MP camera on my phone. It's just the terrible lightbulbs I got in the room. I'm guessing you mean spreading the BS41's that are in the front and not in the rear?....or both?
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post #650 of 6024 Old 12-04-2010, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

And find a way to raise the center channel up.

DANGIT! I was hoping, my tilting it upwards would help that I had to put it so low to the ground. I guess I'll put it in front of the TV and put the TV on something so the center speaker won't be in the way.


I'm looking for an opinion from someone, whether I should have those back speakers at a 90 degree angle or just facing each other behind me.
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post #651 of 6024 Old 12-04-2010, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suikostinger View Post

I used my 3 MP camera on my phone. It's just the terrible lightbulbs I got in the room. I'm guessing you mean spreading the BS41's that are in the front and not in the rear?....or both?

definitely the front speakers. They should be wider apart especially if you move the center speaker to the upper shelf.

Like I said earlier, get some speaker stands.

Afro GT
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post #652 of 6024 Old 12-04-2010, 06:09 PM
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Polk monito 40's or Pioneer SP-BS41?
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post #653 of 6024 Old 12-04-2010, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suikostinger View Post



I'm looking for an opinion from someone, whether I should have those back speakers at a 90 degree angle or just facing each other behind me.

Go to www.dolby.com and look at 5.1 speaker placement.
Click on consumer and then set up.

__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #654 of 6024 Old 12-04-2010, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

Go to www.dolby.com and look at 5.1 speaker placement.
Click on consumer and then set up.

I had actually typed that wrong. I don't know if I should leave them at a 90 degree angle or 100.

Either way, these speakers sound awesome.
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post #655 of 6024 Old 12-04-2010, 07:01 PM
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Has anyone tried out BS21s with a T-amp?
I read that audiophiles have nothing but praise when T-amps debuted a few years ago.
Just check out the way they describe the very first T-amp that came out. http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/t-amp_e.html

anyways... I'm thinking about buying a BS21 + stereo T-amp for my (somewhat small) bedroom stereo setup. My source is my Dell Latitude laptop 3.5mm headphone jack (its got no hums/ticks and i think it has very "clean" output when listening to my headphone)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Tripath-TA2020-M...item3a6050123c




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post #656 of 6024 Old 12-04-2010, 09:56 PM
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I'm using one of these higher-power t-amps in a bedroom system with some svs SBS-01 speakers (which have similar sensitivity to the pioneer speakers) and it works well (and uses very little electricity, even if you leave it on all night):
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=300-383
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post #657 of 6024 Old 12-04-2010, 10:20 PM
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Will any if these charge an iPod while playing.
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post #658 of 6024 Old 12-04-2010, 11:31 PM
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Regarding the T-amp, notice the THD of 10% at 13W into 8 ohm, or at 23W into 4 ohm. I think you'd want to stay well under that level of distortion. So the T-amp is probably only good for about 10W into 8 ohm. I have a Trends TA-10.1 that's working great with a pair of pretty efficient Axiom M3's. But for these Pioneer, I'm getting the Audiosource Amp100.
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post #659 of 6024 Old 12-05-2010, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperactiveme View Post

Will any if these charge an iPod while playing.

How could they? They have only analog L/R inputs.

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"Music in the Round"
Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile
http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

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post #660 of 6024 Old 12-05-2010, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
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How could they? They have only analog L/R inputs.

I don't know if there's specific model with power out.

You are without a doubt the most helpful SOB around. I appreciate all your help.
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