Pioneer's Speaker Genius Hits Low Price Point - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 6040 Old 12-13-2010, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by UberGamer View Post

i just got my 41s last night, and im using these guys as my rears as well. So far, they sound good, no calibration yet. I have the FS51s up front. So far so good, but i also just got the polk m70s in as well as the cs2, and man, when i hooked those guys up, wow. I have yet to major testing with these guys, hopefully when work slows i can test these guys out and see which i like better. Whats your thought on the m70s?

I would really appreciate a comparison between the 51s and the m70s. I have the m70's in my cart at newegg but just came across this Pioneer thread and now not sure what to do. The M70's seem like a great deal and excellent value, but if the Pios are just as good, and cheaper, I may have to change my mind.
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post #722 of 6040 Old 12-13-2010, 07:11 AM
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If you could somehow do a volume level match when comparing the two it would help. The Monitor 70 will be much louder right now due to the low sensitivity of the FS51.

and initially people tend to think louder sounds better when comparing two speakers.

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post #723 of 6040 Old 12-13-2010, 12:07 PM
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Making judgements of speakers in stores is possibly missing an important thing about speakers. That's that their sound changes, sometimes dramatically, as they're played or "broken in".

I'm finally listening to the last two BS-41's I bought. I'm using them as stereo players out of an XP computer with an Asus Xonar Essence STX into my old Pioneer SX950 receiver. I know this receiver pretty well and it's always had a nice musical amp section (though the radio reception sucked even new). anyway it's one of the favorites of some of the vintage equipment fans for it's sound.

I'm listening to one of my favorite Otis Redding CD's and it's playing on repeat.

Thing is that in the last two hours I've heard this sound change. The base has gotten fuller and richer, ol' Otis's voice sounds less twangy and nasal, and the whole experience is getting better as I type this.

I didn't like the sound when I started but I like it better now - a bunch!

So while I've been saying that I thought that this line of Pioneers make for a good HT sound system and maybe not so great for music, I think I'm getting ready to take part of that back.

I mean: "I've been so wrong so many times.............. and you know what I'm talkin' about, we've all been wrong a time in our lives...." ("Let me in").
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post #724 of 6040 Old 12-13-2010, 12:27 PM
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For the price - good for music and home theater. Comprimise was
handled good for the price point. There is always something out
there for head bangers.

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post #725 of 6040 Old 12-13-2010, 01:07 PM
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So before pulling the trigger on the M70s I decided to go to BB today to check the pioneers out in person.

The speakers were set up with four other towers to compare with as they were all hooked up to a push button system that I'm sure is the same in every BB. I listened to the other speakers first as the Pio's were last on the dial. All the speakers sounded good to me, there was a set of Polks that I really liked, but when I got to the Pios the first thing I noticed was a HUGE drop off in volume.

Similar to what's been posted here I guess these speakers are not very efficient and the volume needed to be turned way up to even compare to the other speakers. One the volume was up I thought they did sound very good, but prehaps not as full as the Polks. With that said, while the I liked the Polks they cost $200 a speaker, so I would have to give the Pios the edge value wise.

They didn't have the matching center speaker so I tried listing two them with the Polk center. This experiment did not work out as the Polk was so much louder at the same volume I couldn't even hear the Pioneers. Bottom line, if you get the Pioneer speakers I would also get the center...and possibly the sub or else the sound may be drastically mismatched.

I'm still interested in these speakers but from what I heard today I think the value of the M70's may be too much to pass up.
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post #726 of 6040 Old 12-13-2010, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by jakkim View Post

So before pulling the trigger on the M70s I decided to go to BB today to check the pioneers out in person.

The speakers were set up with four other towers to compare with as they were all hooked up to a push button system that I'm sure is the same in every BB. I listened to the other speakers first as the Pio's were last on the dial. All the speakers sounded good to me, there was a set of Polks that I really liked, but when I got to the Pios the first thing I noticed was a HUGE drop off in volume.

Similar to what's been posted here I guess these speakers are not very efficient and the volume needed to be turned way up to even compare to the other speakers. One the volume was up I thought they did sound very good, but prehaps not as full as the Polks. With that said, while the I liked the Polks they cost $200 a speaker, so I would have to give the Pios the edge value wise.

They didn't have the matching center speaker so I tried listing two them with the Polk center. This experiment did not work out as the Polk was so much louder at the same volume I couldn't even hear the Pioneers. Bottom line, if you get the Pioneer speakers I would also get the center...and possibly the sub or else the sound may be drastically mismatched.

I'm still interested in these speakers but from what I heard today I think the value of the M70's may be too much to pass up.

if you are looking at polks go to newegg .. much cheaper then what bb has
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post #727 of 6040 Old 12-13-2010, 04:21 PM
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Just received my BS41's and man I am impressed. I was worried that my receiver wasn't up to the challenge. Boy I was wrong. These speakers have great clarity and the bass kicks but for their size. These replaced my Yamaha NS-6490's. I knew the Yamaha's were crap, but now I really know. Bass was nonexistent with the Yamaha's and the high's were too high. Thanks for all the great posts on these. I will be getting the C21 soon.
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post #728 of 6040 Old 12-13-2010, 05:16 PM
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I just got back from another local BB as I wanted to give the speakers another listen. This BB had the matching center channel but the receiver set to local radio....This was stupid and nobody in the store could figure out how to hook up a dvd player or ipod...whatever.

I compared these to the Polk TSI4000 (I think thats what they are called) with matching center and again I found the Polks to be much fuller which I think is attributed to better base tones from the towers. I did think the Pios sounded good again but seemed to have noticeably less bass. Obviously a nicely matched sub would fix this...couldn't test any subs out as they weren't hooked up, but these Pios are growing on me. One thing that I do like about the Pios is that they tend to be very clear and not muffled at all. When you think about competing speakers in this price range are HTIB or soundbars the value climbs even higher.

I know some here think the looks and overall short stature for tower speakers is a negative, but I actually think it's a big positive. Specifically, I know my wife would 100% approve the ascetics of the Pios over much larger speakers that have zero chance of matching her decor. I think the Pios are a nice size, big enough to look nice and be noticeable, but small enough so they wouldn't make our house look like we are living in 1974 again.

The Pio 3.1 system is about $180 less than the 3.1 Polk M70 setup that I was considering at newegg which could be put into a better AVR....lots of options...
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post #729 of 6040 Old 12-13-2010, 06:39 PM
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You can always try the Pioneer speakers out for 30 days in home.
This would be the best test. You will notice a difference at home.
No harm in trying this.

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Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
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post #730 of 6040 Old 12-13-2010, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by jakkim View Post

I just got back from another local BB as I wanted to give the speakers another listen. This BB had the matching center channel but the receiver set to local radio....This was stupid and nobody in the store could figure out how to hook up a dvd player or ipod...whatever.

If your BBuy is like the two near me, there's a wood panel that's concealing a receiver. Just bring your iPod and a 3.5 cable and plug it in. I was blasting my music for 45 minutes on a Sunday auditioning the different speakers, getting some weird looks from people. But we wanted to hear how *our* music was going to sound on it, not someone else's. I think the sales floor is particularly unkind to these speakers, as the detail gets lost in the space, and all you notice is their lack of volume.

I've said it before in this thread-- I'm using my BS-41s as rears with Energy RC-50s, and they match up really nicely. MCACC makes up for the difference in sensitivity, and I listen to music in "expanded surround" all of the time with very little differences between the speakers.

If/when the BS-41s drop under $100 again, I'm picking up a pair for my bedroom.
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post #731 of 6040 Old 12-14-2010, 08:19 AM
 
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jakkim,

Your thoughts echo my experience auditioning in the Best Buy sound room. Much quieter than the Polks and the Klipsch, and the bottom end did sound much more full on the (admittedly more expensive) Polks.

But that's not the whole story.

The midrange was too forward and overbearing on the more expensive Polks. It was like in my face. Much more transparent and relaxed sounding on the Pios. Just more refined sounding, for lack of a better expression.

The Klipsch speakers could rock real loud without much power, but they sounded shrill. Honk honk! I think they would get on my nerves after about 15 minutes.

So I actually much preferred the sound coming from the Pioneers to the more expensive Klipsch and Polks. I just wanted more of it, like a taller, larger, more sensitive version, with 6.5 inchers or something. But what do you expect for inexpensive?

However, the bass duties can be taken up by a good sub. It's much easier to rectify some weaker bass on the Pios with a good sub setup than it is to have to live with brash, overbearing mid-range and highs.

I have dual 12" subs running off a 1250W RMS Velodyne amp, so there is no shortage of bass in my living room. Since my subwoofer amp is external, with built in DSP/EQ and room correction, I can mate whatever kind of sub(s) I want.

My Pio 1120K might have a little extra oomph to power the FS51's in my living room, compared to the cheaper (weaker) amps they had in the BB sound room. I think the most powerful they had was a Pio 1020K, and who knows if it was set-up correctly.

I might pick some up to see how it does in my living room. If they can't quite rock out loud enough, and fill the room with a large soundstage, they might be perfect for the bedroom, which doesn't need nearly as much volume.
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post #732 of 6040 Old 12-14-2010, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by DocuMaker View Post

jakkim,

Your thoughts echo my experience auditioning in the Best Buy sound room. Much quieter than the Polks and the Klipsch, and the bottom end did sound much more full on the (admittedly more expensive) Polks.

But that's not the whole story.

The midrange was too forward and overbearing on the more expensive Polks. It was like in my face. Much more transparent and relaxed sounding on the Pios. Just more refined sounding, for lack of a better expression.

The Klipsch speakers could rock real loud without much power, but they sounded shrill. Honk honk! I think they would get on my nerves after about 15 minutes.

So I actually much preferred the sound coming from the Pioneers to the more expensive Klipsch and Polks. I just wanted more of it, like a taller, larger, more sensitive version, with 6.5 inchers or something. But what do you expect for inexpensive?

However, the bass duties can be taken up by a good sub. It's much easier to rectify some weaker bass on the Pios with a good sub setup than it is to have to live with brash, overbearing mid-range and highs.

I have dual 12" subs running off a 1250W RMS Velodyne amp, so there is no shortage of bass in my living room. Since my subwoofer amp is external, with built in DSP/EQ and room correction, I can mate whatever kind of sub(s) I want.

My Pio 1120K might have a little extra oomph to power the FS51's in my living room, compared to the cheaper (weaker) amps they had in the BB sound room. I think the most powerful they had was a Pio 1020K, and who knows if it was set-up correctly.

I might pick some up to see how it does in my living room. If they can't quite rock out loud enough, and fill the room with a large soundstage, they might be perfect for the bedroom, which doesn't need nearly as much volume.

Thanks for the response, you nailed what I was getting at.

After reading through this post and having now listened to the speakers for the third time this afternoon, I'm going to pick up the towers, center, and sub to give them a try. I know a lot of people don't prefer the matching sub but I think it will work out for me, especially since it small and can be hidden which is important to the wife.

I'm also going to pick up a new receiver while I'm at it and I may try my luck with one of the refurbished Onkyo 807s at AFL. It seems like this receiver will have more than enough power for these speakers, and for the price & 1 year warranty I'm not sure how I can go wrong. I have to head over to another BB for the center so I may also take a look at the Pioneer 1120K as I've heard good things about that too.
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post #733 of 6040 Old 12-14-2010, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by DocuMaker View Post

jakkim,

Your thoughts echo my experience auditioning in the Best Buy sound room. Much quieter than the Polks and the Klipsch, and the bottom end did sound much more full on the (admittedly more expensive) Polks.

But that's not the whole story.

The midrange was too forward and overbearing on the more expensive Polks. It was like in my face. Much more transparent and relaxed sounding on the Pios. Just more refined sounding, for lack of a better expression.

The Klipsch speakers could rock real loud without much power, but they sounded shrill. Honk honk! I think they would get on my nerves after about 15 minutes.

So I actually much preferred the sound coming from the Pioneers to the more expensive Klipsch and Polks. I just wanted more of it, like a taller, larger, more sensitive version, with 6.5 inchers or something. But what do you expect for inexpensive?

However, the bass duties can be taken up by a good sub. It's much easier to rectify some weaker bass on the Pios with a good sub setup than it is to have to live with brash, overbearing mid-range and highs.

I have dual 12" subs running off a 1250W RMS Velodyne amp, so there is no shortage of bass in my living room. Since my subwoofer amp is external, with built in DSP/EQ and room correction, I can mate whatever kind of sub(s) I want.

My Pio 1120K might have a little extra oomph to power the FS51's in my living room, compared to the cheaper (weaker) amps they had in the BB sound room. I think the most powerful they had was a Pio 1020K, and who knows if it was set-up correctly.

I might pick some up to see how it does in my living room. If they can't quite rock out loud enough, and fill the room with a large soundstage, they might be perfect for the bedroom, which doesn't need nearly as much volume.

"Shrill"... that's how I'd describe the Klipschs too. Even though they are more sensitive speakers, I could easily listen to the Pios at a much higher volume without my ears hurting. The brightness claws at you. It wasn't even a fatigue thing with Klipsch, I just wanted to cover my ears immediately. For me, the Pios have been great for rock music and such - they have distinct, crisp, clear, highs and never get into shrill territory.

In line with your comments, I hope Pioneer gets a clue from all of this attention and builds a mid-line "taller, larger, more sensitive version" of these speakers with maybe a little bit better finish and slightly better woofer+tweeter components for $500-600/pair (for floor standers, maybe $300-$400 for a good set of bookshelves) Pioneer has won a bunch of people over, if they follow this up in the future with something similar by Andrew Jones, they could have a hugely popular (massively profitable) speaker line between these entry level ones and the expensive SEs, and catch people who will eventually want to upgrade from these.
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post #734 of 6040 Old 12-14-2010, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Strangelove424 View Post

In line with your comments, I hope Pioneer gets a clue from all of this attention and builds a mid-line "taller, larger, more sensitive version" of these speakers with maybe a little bit better finish and slightly better woofer+tweeter components for $500-600/pair (for floor standers, maybe $300-$400 for a good set of bookshelves) Pioneer has won a bunch of people over, if they follow this up in the future with something similar by Andrew Jones, they could have a hugely popular (massively profitable) speaker line between these entry level ones and the expensive SEs, and catch people who will eventually want to upgrade from these.

That would be a great call on their part if it were to happen. I know that I personally would "upgrade" when the budget allows - especially if it continues the "sound better than something 2x the price" theme!

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post #735 of 6040 Old 12-15-2010, 12:35 AM
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Two quick questions.

First, I've been reading up on the Bic F12 sub and found it online for about $50 more than the Pioneer sub. The Bic seems to get good reviews, however would it just overpower the speakers or would it complement them well? I don't want room shaking base, just nice tone that will sound good with the speakers. I think I already know the answer to this question, but would the Bic be a worthwhile upgrade over the Pioneer sub?

Second, as I'm only going for a 3.1 setup I'm currently rethinking the AVR I would like to match up and I came across the Pioneer VSX-820. This AVR is dirt cheap, very basic features which I like, but will it have enough mojo to power the speakers and possibly the larger Bic F12?
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post #736 of 6040 Old 12-15-2010, 01:31 AM
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The bic f12 will not over powers the speakers. Just turn it down a bit, that's what I have.

I'm not done testing these towers yet. I'll be back in Philly soon so I can return them. So far they are ok. My set up plays much louder obviously. The low db rating on these speakers give them much more room to sound good.

Even my factory cad stereo sounds nice cause the powers limited. Most should know where I'm going with this. Anyways, need more time to decide. They sound better than my kenwoods though so either way it's an upgrade.

I would say these are better for music than HT though. I bet those " shrill" klips and in your face polks hold up much better In HT use.
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post #737 of 6040 Old 12-15-2010, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Strangelove424 View Post
In line with your comments, I hope Pioneer gets a clue from all of this attention and builds a mid-line "taller, larger, more sensitive version" of these speakers with maybe a little bit better finish and slightly better woofer+tweeter components for $500-600/pair (for floor standers, maybe $300-$400 for a good set of bookshelves) Pioneer has won a bunch of people over, if they follow this up in the future with something similar by Andrew Jones, they could have a hugely popular (massively profitable) speaker line between these entry level ones and the expensive SEs, and catch people who will eventually want to upgrade from these.
I'm not sure these speakers have been the success you're calling them-- a lot of people in this thread, myself included, have reported that BBuy doesn't have the demos hooked up. Sales reps don't even know that they're there. So I think all of the positive comments here might not be translating into sales. To the average person at BBuy, these speakers don't look as imposing as the Polks and the Klipsch towers they're sitting next to, and are hurt being overpowered in comparison listening. The BS-41s had to be marked down to over 1/2 list. If BBuy trained its employees to sell these a little better, even just sat them down and said "read the AVS thread," they might be moving some more units.
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post #738 of 6040 Old 12-15-2010, 06:43 AM
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Looking to upgrade from small satellites in a 12x18 room. Would a bs41/21 be enough for the fronts? Or should I go with the floor standers? Thanks all.
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post #739 of 6040 Old 12-15-2010, 07:07 AM
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I'm not sure these speakers have been the success you're calling them-- a lot of people in this thread, myself included, have reported that BBuy doesn't have the demos hooked up. Sales reps don't even know that they're there. So I think all of the positive comments here might not be translating into sales. To the average person at BBuy, these speakers don't look as imposing as the Polks and the Klipsch towers they're sitting next to, and are hurt being overpowered in comparison listening. The BS-41s had to be marked down to over 1/2 list. If BBuy trained its employees to sell these a little better, even just sat them down and said "read the AVS thread," they might be moving some more units.
I guess you're right, a lot of circumstances are against these speakers. My first visit to demo I was lucky enough to have an experienced, trained, sales person. His demo technique was skillful - he turned the speakers down so the horrible BB acoustics didn't really effect the audition and told me to keep my ears about 1 foot from the woofers, then he switched between the Klipsch, Bose, Polk, JBL, and Pioneer centers. He knew what he was doing, so kept the loudness constant between speakers, compensating for sensitivity. It was clear that at the same loudness, the only thing that sounded better was the JBL (a $300 or $350 center alone, I can't remember exactly because it was way out of my budget). The Pioneer was utterly neutral though, smooth sounding, and still detailed. For $79, it truly is unbelievable. The Bose was by far worst of all at $300 - another reminder they need their own dedicated retail stores to avoid direct comparison, otherwise I don't see how they could sell anything.

The sales person never gave me an opinion to bias mine, just suggested things to be listening for, but when I finally stated my thoughts about the Pios, he agreed they were quite a deal and very neutral for their price range. I wish every employee at BB was that well trained, and as scientifically unbiased. It was a nice change of pace.
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post #740 of 6040 Old 12-15-2010, 07:12 AM
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Looking to upgrade from small satellites in a 12x18 room. Would a bs41/21 be enough for the fronts? Or should I go with the floor standers? Thanks all.

Considering the great deals on the BS41s I'd stick with those over 21s for fronts, but you will be totally fine with bookshelves. I use the BS41s as surrounds, but because they are so powerful for their size, they can easily overpower the front towers. Receiver has them at -3.5db too. Sometimes I confuse their bass with the subwoofer which is near my SR speaker. Point is... you'll be good with the BS41s. They have the same tweeter, same strong bass coming out of the woofer. They are even more sensitive than the towers! The only minor difference will the smoothness of the mids in music since the towers have more woofers to spread the frequencies over.
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post #741 of 6040 Old 12-15-2010, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strangelove424

I guess you're right, a lot of circumstances are against these speakers. My first visit to demo I was lucky enough to have an experienced, trained, sales person. His demo technique was skillful - he turned the speakers down so the horrible BB acoustics didn't really effect the audition and told me to keep my ears about 1 foot from the woofers, then he switched between the Klipsch, Bose, Polk, JBL, and Pioneer centers. He knew what he was doing, so kept the loudness constant between speakers, compensating for sensitivity. It was clear that at the same loudness, the only thing that sounded better was the JBL (a $300 or $350 center alone, I can't remember exactly because it was way out of my budget). The Pioneer was utterly neutral though, smooth sounding, and still detailed. For $79, it truly is unbelievable. The Bose was by far worst of all at $300 - another reminder they need their own dedicated retail stores to avoid direct comparison, otherwise I don't see how they could sell anything.

The sales person never gave me an opinion to bias mine, just suggested things to be listening for, but when I finally stated my thoughts about the Pios, he agreed they were quite a deal and very neutral for their price range. I wish every employee at BB was that well trained, and as scientifically unbiased. It was a nice change of pace.
Wow! My experience was: walk up to the display, try to guess which number to push to hear the pioneers since they were not labeled, look behind them to discover the wires were not plugged in, hook them up myself, then try to figure out how to make the receiver play something other than a staticy radio station. After all of that - a salesperson approached asking if I needed help.

-Aaron
My Basement Movie Room and Bar/Game Room - actually doing stuff now... please comment!
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post #742 of 6040 Old 12-15-2010, 07:34 AM
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Wow! My experience was: walk up to the display, try to guess which number to push to hear the pioneers since they were not labeled, look behind them to discover the wires were not plugged in, hook them up myself, then try to figure out how to make the receiver play something other than a staticy radio station. After all of that - a salesperson approached asking if I needed help.
LOL, that was my final buying experience pretty much. When I came back to actually purchase, I wanted to hear them one last time. The Speaker Guru wasn't there that time, just a bunch of monkeys who said "hold on a minute, let me go check something" (I'm pretty sure that's a go-to saying in the BB handbook) and then they wandered off (I think to play Wii). When I finally figured their system out for them, the Pios came on with a thunder, and the sales guys came back around - along with half the customers in the store - to see what the commotion was. Check please!
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post #743 of 6040 Old 12-15-2010, 07:37 AM
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Considering the great deals on the BS41s I'd stick with those over 21s for fronts, but you will be totally fine with bookshelves. I use the BS41s as surrounds, but because they are so powerful for their size, they can easily overpower the front towers. Receiver has them at -3.5db too. Sometimes I confuse their bass with the subwoofer which is near my SR speaker. Point is... you'll be good with the BS41s. They have the same tweeter, same strong bass coming out of the woofer. They are even more sensitive than the towers! The only minor difference will the smoothness of the mids in music since the towers have more woofers to spread the frequencies over.
Thanks. The thing is the bs41 + stands cost about the same as the standers. I honestly never heard the floor standers yet. I have demo the bs21 only in bb and they sounded terrific playing tunes from my iPod.
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post #744 of 6040 Old 12-15-2010, 07:50 AM
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Thanks. The thing is the bs41 + stands cost about the same as the standers. I honestly never heard the floor standers yet. I have demo the bs21 only in bb and they sounded terrific playing tunes from my iPod.
Just buy the towers and bookshelves and bring back the ones you don't want. Either way you'll be using bookshelves for surrounds, right? You'll have an entire month to see how big of a difference it makes before having to make a final decision. And if you decide not to return anything, you'll have 7.1
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post #745 of 6040 Old 12-15-2010, 08:06 AM
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I guess you're right, a lot of circumstances are against these speakers. My first visit to demo I was lucky enough to have an experienced, trained, sales person. His demo technique was skillful - he turned the speakers down so the horrible BB acoustics didn't really effect the audition and told me to keep my ears about 1 foot from the woofers, then he switched between the Klipsch, Bose, Polk, JBL, and Pioneer centers. He knew what he was doing, so kept the loudness constant between speakers, compensating for sensitivity. It was clear that at the same loudness, the only thing that sounded better was the JBL (a $300 or $350 center alone, I can't remember exactly because it was way out of my budget). The Pioneer was utterly neutral though, smooth sounding, and still detailed. For $79, it truly is unbelievable. The Bose was by far worst of all at $300 - another reminder they need their own dedicated retail stores to avoid direct comparison, otherwise I don't see how they could sell anything.

The sales person never gave me an opinion to bias mine, just suggested things to be listening for, but when I finally stated my thoughts about the Pios, he agreed they were quite a deal and very neutral for their price range. I wish every employee at BB was that well trained, and as scientifically unbiased. It was a nice change of pace.

I hope they have the sense to promote that guy to head of the department he works in! What a great way to be able to decide without biased pitches with suspect motivation. I usually assume that sales pressures are driven by profit potential or overstock or sales rewards and/or commissions available - anything but an interest in giving the customer the best demonstration of comparable products in order to make his own decisions.

This thread is long and I wonder if newcomers have read the first couple of pages? Let's not kid ourselves - I'd bet that the first interest in these speakers came because of their low price levels but the initial posts and reviews have a lot of expression of surprise and pleasure over the performance of the speakers even with low price breaks.

And somewhere in here is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lCNvTAt-fY
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post #746 of 6040 Old 12-15-2010, 10:30 AM
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Thanks. The thing is the bs41 + stands cost about the same as the standers. I honestly never heard the floor standers yet. I have demo the bs21 only in bb and they sounded terrific playing tunes from my iPod.

BS41's on stands would be 3-4 inches taller than the short FS51's, which means the tweeter is more at ear level. That could be a small plus. And I like the look of bookshelf's on stands. At moderate volume, the difference in sound between the two is not obvious, and probably even less so if your receiver's doing some kind of equlization/room correction.
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post #747 of 6040 Old 12-15-2010, 11:08 AM
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Looking to upgrade from small satellites in a 12x18 room. Would a bs41/21 be enough for the fronts? Or should I go with the floor standers? Thanks all.
The most important part of this choice will be whether you're using a subwoofer or not, and you didn't say.

Without a sub I think someone could get by with only the towers and their three woofers with a 10 hz lower range of response than the bookshelf.
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post #748 of 6040 Old 12-15-2010, 02:12 PM
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The most important part of this choice will be whether you're using a subwoofer or not, and you didn't say.

Without a sub I think someone could get by with only the towers and their three woofers with a 10 hz lower range of response than the bookshelf.

I'm actually using the energy 8 inch esw woofers. Which gives me plenty of bass already.
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post #749 of 6040 Old 12-15-2010, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Strangelove424 View Post

"Shrill"... that's how I'd describe the Klipschs too. Even though they are more sensitive speakers, I could easily listen to the Pios at a much higher volume without my ears hurting. The brightness claws at you. It wasn't even a fatigue thing with Klipsch, I just wanted to cover my ears immediately. For me, the Pios have been great for rock music and such - they have distinct, crisp, clear, highs and never get into shrill territory.

In line with your comments, I hope Pioneer gets a clue from all of this attention and builds a mid-line "taller, larger, more sensitive version" of these speakers with maybe a little bit better finish and slightly better woofer+tweeter components for $500-600/pair (for floor standers, maybe $300-$400 for a good set of bookshelves) Pioneer has won a bunch of people over, if they follow this up in the future with something similar by Andrew Jones, they could have a hugely popular (massively profitable) speaker line between these entry level ones and the expensive SEs, and catch people who will eventually want to upgrade from these.

Has anyone heard these by Pioneer?

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...R-K.Kuro?tab=D

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...-31B-LR-K.Kuro

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...i.S-31C-K.Kuro

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post #750 of 6040 Old 12-15-2010, 03:03 PM
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Has anyone heard these by Pioneer?
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...-31B-LR-K.Kuro

I think Amazon has them on sale for $205

They are now $195
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...pf_rd_i=507846

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Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
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