Pioneer's Speaker Genius Hits Low Price Point - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 6037 Old 12-19-2010, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vraxoin View Post

In case anyone is interested in the BS21, Best Buy has a nice deal on them right now! Plus, the SW-8 is also discounted.

This is the time to do it.

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post #812 of 6037 Old 12-20-2010, 12:08 AM
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Interesting deal on the sub. I was going to go with the 2 10" lava subs as they would be more future proof for when I get a bigger place but for 100 that is tempting.
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post #813 of 6037 Old 12-20-2010, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coffee289 View Post

I just hooked up my SP-FS51's. Has anyone noticed most of the mids and bass coming from the top woofer? I only hear a little bit of bass coming out of the bottom two woofers. I read somewhere that theses are 3-way speakers, but it almost sounds like the bottom two woofers are just acting like passive radiators.

What it sounds like to me is the top 5.25" driver is crossing over from the tweeter and playing everything from there on down... then the bottom two woofers only play the lower bass frequencies which help extend the overall speaker's output at those frequencies by 6db (3db per additional woofer relative to the output of having only the single top woofer's output at those lower frequencies). This compensates for the driver's natural low end frequency roll-off. Without getting too complicated, it provides the benefits in imaging you get from a single driver, while giving you the additional bass fullness of multiple drivers... very impressive in a $200 pair of small towers, and something other entry-level speakers don't do.
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post #814 of 6037 Old 12-20-2010, 10:55 AM
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The 31 bookshelf is going down.
http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-S-31B-...871108&sr=1-12

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post #815 of 6037 Old 12-20-2010, 11:27 AM
 
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Someone posted a 10% off BestBuy coupon on Slickdeals that could probably be used to pick up the FS-51 or the C-21 center channel, which are currently not on sale. Looks like the smaller bookshelfs (BS-21) and the sub are on sale so the coupon would not apply.
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post #816 of 6037 Old 12-20-2010, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

The 31 bookshelf is going down.
http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-S-31B-...871108&sr=1-12

Rrrr! i bought at $178.! This is like buying stocks.

The BB deal on the BS-21 above is awesome too but if someone is needing a smaller size the S31 is smaller than the B21 and should sound better too.

Seems like someone overestimated the market.

There's got to be some of the "How can they be any good at such a low price?" psychology coupled with the sheeplike "My friend has Polk, Bose, (Emerson? ) etc. and says they're the best so I'm buying them too" element.

Pioneer could have saved on the sound quality by spending on pretty veneer and a more radical appearance to catch the home decorator market. The nice looking crappy sounding type that fill the shelves of every Goodwill store in the country.
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post #817 of 6037 Old 12-20-2010, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krs View Post

Rrrr! i bought at $178.! This is like buying stocks.

The BB deal on the BS-21 above is awesome too but if someone is needing a smaller size the S31 is smaller than the B21 and should sound better too.

Seems like someone overestimated the market.

Don't worry, they do sound better. When will yours be here - you will
be surprised at the size, when you open the boxes.

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post #818 of 6037 Old 12-20-2010, 12:00 PM
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First time poster here but have been following the thread for awhile now currently running the c21,and 4 fs51's ront and rear with a 1019ahk was thinking of getting a new AV. looking at getting.
1. 1120k
2. tx-nr808
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post #819 of 6037 Old 12-20-2010, 12:01 PM
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any comment from those that are currently running these and some opinions would be appreciated thank you!
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post #820 of 6037 Old 12-20-2010, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeflonDon66 View Post

First time poster here but have been following the thread for awhile now currently running the c21,and 4 fs51's ront and rear with a 1019ahk was thinking of getting a new AV. looking at getting.
1. 1120k
2. tx-nr808

There have been several postings from people using the Pioneer 1120 in this thread. It's possible to search individual threads using the function available.
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post #821 of 6037 Old 12-20-2010, 12:29 PM
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My long story short version. I'm in the market to purchase a new 5.1 surround system. The wife gave me the green light for a Christmas gift..max price around $700.

My living room is 16' x 18' with 13' ceilings. Which the living room flows into the dinning room with 9' cellings..its a pretty open floor plan.

Most of the time they will be used for TV, Movies (60%).. Music (20%)...PS3 games (20%)

Ive been looking at Polk Monitors 60/70, BIC America etc... I came across this thread and had to visit one of my 3 local BB stores to see them for myself.

As stated as most..these speakers are placed in the isle and not the best location to listen to. They were set up next too Polk and Klipsch.
A friendly sales associate came over and turned on the receiver system (test center) since it was off.
First we tried out the SP-FS51 tower speakers...I got to listen to Elton John live in concert..Which sounded awesome..Even the sales associate made the comment that the CD was live so a regular CD will sound even better..even asked if I wanted to switch out CD's...however, I had my 2 and 5 year old's with me and both of them had ants in there pants..

As we left the speaker area and walked several isles over. I still could here the speakers playing with clear sounds.

I did take a moment to switch over to the Polks and they did seem "bright" and not as natural at the Pioneers.

I'm going back to BB in a few days...might even have to be after Christmas to listen to these speakers again without the kids. But from what little Ive heard..Im liking them along with the price tags!

Also they do look better in person then on the web. Kind of short...but build quality was very nice.
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post #822 of 6037 Old 12-20-2010, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

Don't worry, they do sound better. When will yours be here - you will
be surprised at the size, when you open the boxes.

They're in the shipping process but haven't shipped. Nevertheless the price is what it was when the trigger tripped.

That's a pretty hefty drop in only three days. Makes you wonder what the morrow may bring, eh?
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post #823 of 6037 Old 12-20-2010, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krs View Post

That's a pretty hefty drop in only three days. Makes you wonder what the morrow may bring, eh?

Amazon must be trying to clear them out - tomorrow has
no promises.

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post #824 of 6037 Old 12-20-2010, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawdog4817 View Post

... they will be used for TV, Movies (60%).. Music (20%)...PS3 games (20%).

I have the Bic Venturi line and these towers. Based on my use, mostly HT-gaming, I think I'm returning the towers. The "bright" sound musically actually produces great detail and punch for HT use. At least in the Bic's.

The pioneers are much better when it comes to music though. I guess it comes down to what you'll use it for most often. If I listened to music even 35% of the time on it I might side differently.
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post #825 of 6037 Old 12-20-2010, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by hyperactiveme View Post

The pioneers are much better when it comes to music though. I guess it comes down to what you'll use it for most often. If I listened to music even 35% of the time on it I might side differently.

Does your receiver have some kind of room correction/equalization? The FS51's are warm, but my Onkyo with Audyssey did a great job balacing them out.
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post #826 of 6037 Old 12-20-2010, 05:29 PM
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No. I got the pioneer vsx-520, all the cash I had left. Sad thing is it's the same price as the vsx-1020 on sale in the U.S. I'm Canadian
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post #827 of 6037 Old 12-20-2010, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post
Amazon must be trying to clear them out - tomorrow has
no promises.
Just curious on your thoughts of the S-31B vs. some other small speaker offerings...

I believe I've seen you post your thoughts on speakers from NHT, PSB, and Energy before.

If you've heard any of the following, how do you think the Pio's stack up?...
NHT Absolute Zero
NHT SuperZero 2.0
PSB Image B4
Energy RC-Mini


I'm in the middle of what seems like an endless quest to find a compact option for my bedroom that I'm happy with. I currently have in my possession the SuperZero 2.0, PSB Image B4, and Energy RC-Mini and Mini CC...

However, I seem to find something wrong with each one. The SuperZero's don't play low enough, and Audyssey repeatedly tells me I need a 150Hz or 200Hz xover... which is too high for my liking.

Same with the Energy RC-Mini... 150Hz xover.

The RC-Mini Center and PSB Image B4 both play lower, but also seem to have a slightly unnatural thickness to male dialogue.

The SuperZero 2.0 really have a sweet midrange... but the high xover is really a deal breaker for me.
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post #828 of 6037 Old 12-20-2010, 09:31 PM
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I must say that Jim's admiration for these pioneer's has piqued my interest. I had been looking for wall mounts but realized I was going to sacrifice sound for fit/finish. I am thinking of getting some bs31's and place them on a stand, just in front of my large windows instead of the wall mounts i was looking at.

My space for a center is more cramped than what this cs21 looks like it'll take. What center speakers are low profile and can match these speakers?

Also, would at yamaha 667, onkyo 608, yamaha a700 or a marantz be best for this system? I want to take it to 5.1 and get a deftech sub or a hsu.

thanks,

scott

edit: are the s31's from the same line? I don't find much about them on the net. I also see a s31 center...any news on that?
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post #829 of 6037 Old 12-20-2010, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaiii View Post
Just curious on your thoughts of the S-31B vs. some other small speaker offerings...

If you've heard any of the following, how do you think the Pio's stack up?...
NHT Absolute Zero
NHT SuperZero 2.0
PSB Image B4
Energy RC-Mini
To Me:
I can not speak for the RC Mini - The B31 has better bass than the
Super Zero 2.0, and seems to be more balanced. The super Zero has
a better midrange.
The B31 is more balanced than the B4, with better bass. The B4 has
a better tweeter.
The Absolute Zero is the winner - however, the B31 can still justify
its self.
You have a passion for good sound like I do - and it will cost a little.
There are two speakers that are balanced, smooth and refined - with
good bass, and throw a good sound stage. And they have good detail
definition and depth. The Boston VS240 and the Focal Chorus 705V.
The Boston will turn your head. Ignore the Amazon link - use this.
http://www.bostonacoustics.com/VS-24...shed-P520.aspx
The midrange and treble is real good.
http://www.musicdirect.com/product/88944

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post #830 of 6037 Old 12-20-2010, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaiii View Post
Just curious on your thoughts of the S-31B vs. some other small speaker offerings...

I believe I've seen you post your thoughts on speakers from NHT, PSB, and Energy before.

If you've heard any of the following, how do you think the Pio's stack up?...
NHT Absolute Zero
NHT SuperZero 2.0
PSB Image B4
Energy RC-Mini


I'm in the middle of what seems like an endless quest to find a compact option for my bedroom that I'm happy with. I currently have in my possession the SuperZero 2.0, PSB Image B4, and Energy RC-Mini and Mini CC...

However, I seem to find something wrong with each one. The SuperZero's don't play low enough, and Audyssey repeatedly tells me I need a 150Hz or 200Hz xover... which is too high for my liking.

Same with the Energy RC-Mini... 150Hz xover.

The RC-Mini Center and PSB Image B4 both play lower, but also seem to have a slightly unnatural thickness to male dialogue.

The SuperZero 2.0 really have a sweet midrange... but the high xover is really a deal breaker for me.
I don't know if this is an issue common to the automated set up routines, but I have a similar problem with the recommended crossover with my Yamaha... YPAO wants to set the crossover at 160Hz on my system... and I'm running RC-70 L/R, RC-LCR center, and RC-30 for surrounds. I have to manually set mine... I've been experimenting with 60 and 80 Hz on my set up. I believe the "recommended" cross over for the RC-minis is generally 100 Hz. I can't speak to your other sets, but I would ignore what Audyssey is telling you and play with your cross overs in this case. Definitely sounds too high to me.

IBEW Local 1643
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post #831 of 6037 Old 12-20-2010, 10:17 PM
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By scottybooj >> I must say that Jim's admiration for these pioneer's has piqued my interest. I had been looking for wall mounts but realized I was going to sacrifice sound for fit/finish. I am thinking of getting some bs31's and place them on a stand, just in front of my large windows instead of the wall mounts i was looking at.

My space for a center is more cramped than what this cs21 looks like it'll take. What center speakers are low profile and can match these speakers?

Also, would at yamaha 667, onkyo 608, yamaha a700 or a marantz be best for this system? I want to take it to 5.1 and get a deftech sub or a hsu.

edit: are the s31's from the same line? I don't find much about them on the net. I also see a s31 center...any news on that?

thanks,

scott

Make sure that the windows have drapes. The S 31C is the match
for the B31. The Marantz receiver will bring out the best in the 31
series, from Pioneer. Take a look at the Emotiva Ultra 10 sub.

http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-S-31C-...2912332&sr=8-1

http://emotiva.com/ultra_sub10.shtm

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post #832 of 6037 Old 12-20-2010, 10:28 PM
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The Yamaha 667 and A700 are pretty much the same receiver. The onkyo 608 would work well too. Get which ever has the best price and features for your needs.

The Series 3 S31's are from a completely different product line. they've been around longer than this new Andrew Jones designed budget line and cost more too. At least the MSRP is a lot more. I've read the s31 bookshelf speakers have been coming down in price. I've never seen them anywhere but online though. Who knows how they sound.

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post #833 of 6037 Old 12-20-2010, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post
At least the MSRP is a lot more. I've read the s31 bookshelf speakers have been coming down in price. I've never seen them anywhere but online though. Who knows how they sound.
The B31 has a better woofer and tweeter, than the B21. Both have
good cabinets. The size of the B31 in person, will surprise you.

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Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
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post #834 of 6037 Old 12-20-2010, 11:40 PM
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The 31s are part of the 3 series which is NOT part of the Andrew Jones project the rest of the thread discusses.

I'm no expert but I'll say it again I am amazed at how great these speakers sound. I have Andrew Jones c21 center and sp51s towers. They even produce such good bass I'm probably not going to get a sub now. Also, the openess and off angle seating positions in the room would make most of you cringe but they handle it.
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post #835 of 6037 Old 12-20-2010, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlyn View Post
The 31s are part of the 3 series which is NOT part of the Andrew Jones project the rest of the thread discusses.

I'm no expert but I'll say it again I am amazed at how great these speakers sound. I have the center and sp51s. They even produce such good bass I'm probably not going to get a sub now. Also, the openess and off angle seating positions in the room would make most of you cringe but they handle it.
I repeat,
This does not bring down the value of the Andrew Jones series. It justifies
his design and the quality that they are - considering the comprimises he
had to make.

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Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
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post #836 of 6037 Old 12-21-2010, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottybooj View Post

I must say that Jim's admiration for these pioneer's has piqued my interest. I had been looking for wall mounts but realized I was going to sacrifice sound for fit/finish. I am thinking of getting some bs31's and place them on a stand, just in front of my large windows instead of the wall mounts i was looking at.

My space for a center is more cramped than what this cs21 looks like it'll take. What center speakers are low profile and can match these speakers?

Also, would at yamaha 667, onkyo 608, yamaha a700 or a marantz be best for this system? I want to take it to 5.1 and get a deftech sub or a hsu.

thanks,

scott

edit: are the s31's from the same line? I don't find much about them on the net. I also see a s31 center...any news on that?

Scott, I ordered an s31 for the same reason you mentioned - limited space for the center speaker.

While I was able to installl the C21 center into my middle top cabinet space it's a very tight install and the speaker is immovable. Additionally the cabinet has a 2" wide trim/support horizontal piece below the cabinet top. As installed the top 1 1/2" of both C21 woofers are blocked by this piece.

I thought to cut elipses to allow the speaker to fire into the room more completely but that piece seems to be structural to the cabinet, so we've lived with it and can't really say that it's noticably affected the sound.

Nevertheless, it's bugged me, so when I found a decent price on the smaller S31 center I ordered one. It's not here yet but will be a better fit because it uses two 4" woofers and thus has a lower height. It'll allow the woofers to fire straight out and will be "aimable" up and down as necessary.

While I expect the new center might sound a little better I really don't see how it can improve the overall sound very much except in the aiming ability mentioned. The C31 center performs and sounds very well and can't be beat at it's undiscounted price level of 20% less than $100. For the new one I've paid more than twice that amount.
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post #837 of 6037 Old 12-21-2010, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mesasone View Post

I don't know if this is an issue common to the automated set up routines, but I have a similar problem with the recommended crossover with my Yamaha... YPAO wants to set the crossover at 160Hz on my system... and I'm running RC-70 L/R, RC-LCR center, and RC-30 for surrounds. I have to manually set mine... I've been experimenting with 60 and 80 Hz on my set up. I believe the "recommended" cross over for the RC-minis is generally 100 Hz. I can't speak to your other sets, but I would ignore what Audyssey is telling you and play with your cross overs in this case. Definitely sounds too high to me.

It's not recommended to lower the xover point beyond what Audyssey has measured. Raising it is no problem... but it's recommended not to lower it. I can't speaker for YPAO.

I think 100Hz is too low for the RC-Mini unless it's either wall mounted (for bass reinforcement) or is used as surrounds. It's a very small speaker, and running it full range it's easy to hear the lack of bass. I think they need at least 120Hz... but Audyssey is likely suggesting 150Hz since they probably roll off just a little higher than the 120Hz range, and 150Hz is the next step up on Denon AVR's.

I have the Mini's placed on stands about 16" from the rear wall... so they aren't getting any help in the bass department in my case. If I put them close to the wall they get some bass reinforcement and Audysset then recommends 120Hz.... but this puts them roughly a foot behind the center (ie. a foot further from the listening position...)
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post #838 of 6037 Old 12-21-2010, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

To Me:
I can not speak for the RC Mini - The B31 has better bass than the
Super Zero 2.0, and seems to be more balanced. The super Zero has
a better midrange.
The B31 is more balanced than the B4, with better bass. The B4 has
a better tweeter.
The Absolute Zero is the winner - however, the B31 can still justify
its self.
You have a passion for good sound like I do - and it will cost a little.
There are two speakers that are balanced, smooth and refined - with
good bass, and throw a good sound stage. And they have good detail
definition and depth. The Boston VS240 and the Focal Chorus 705V.
The Boston will turn your head. Ignore the Amazon link - use this.
http://www.bostonacoustics.com/VS-24...shed-P520.aspx
The midrange and treble is real good.
http://www.musicdirect.com/product/88944

Well, I went ahead and ordered a pair to try out. Worst case is they're still not what I'm after, and I return them for a small shipping fee.

I really enjoy the mids on the Super Zero... so hopefully the S-31B isn't a let down in comparison. Maybe NHT will release a SuperOne 2.0... that might be what I'm looking for...

I agree the tweeter on the B4 is good... but there is a tiny bit of top end glare at times... Overall though, I think the B4 is a nice speaker as well... and would probably take it over the Super Zero only because it actually has a low end... not much... but more than the Super Zero or RC-Mini. Also, the mids on the B4 are nothing to scoff at. It's really a nicely balance compact speaker, and has respectable detail throughout it's range.

Three RC-Mini Centers would almost be perfect for my bedroom...great build quality and I love the rosenut finish I have... lower xover can be used (100Hz-110Hz works just fine)... if it wasn't for that strange thickness I notice in the lower mids sometimes. It's only there with certain material... but it's distracting at times. And I didn't notice it with similar material on the SuperZero 2.0, or the NHT Classic TwoC.


Unfortunately, the Boston and Focal speaker are out of the price range I'm looking at. I actually can't even find the VS240 for sale anywhere.

I might also be getting my hand on a pair of used Absolute Zero's for a good price... I have read some think they're a little bright... so I've been hesitant to go after a pair in the past.... but they measured so well recently... they've really piqued my interest again.


Honestly though... I have yet to find a small speaker that can match the mids/highs of the ACI Emerald XL... shame I had to sell them for money reasons. They were weak in the bass dept too... but the midrange was amazing...
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post #839 of 6037 Old 12-21-2010, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

To Me:
I can not speak for the RC Mini - The B31 has better bass than the
Super Zero 2.0, and seems to be more balanced. The super Zero has
a better midrange.
The B31 is more balanced than the B4, with better bass. The B4 has
a better tweeter.
The Absolute Zero is the winner - however, the B31 can still justify
its self.
You have a passion for good sound like I do - and it will cost a little.
There are two speakers that are balanced, smooth and refined - with
good bass, and throw a good sound stage. And they have good detail
definition and depth. The Boston VS240 and the Focal Chorus 705V.
The Boston will turn your head. Ignore the Amazon link - use this.
http://www.bostonacoustics.com/VS-24...shed-P520.aspx
The midrange and treble is real good.
http://www.musicdirect.com/product/88944

Also wanted to ask... Have you heard the Mirage OMD-5 at all?
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post #840 of 6037 Old 12-21-2010, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaiii View Post

Well, I went ahead and ordered a pair to try out. Worst case is they're still not what I'm after, and I return them for a small shipping fee.

I really enjoy the mids on the Super Zero... so hopefully the S-31B isn't a let down in comparison. Maybe NHT will release a SuperOne 2.0... that might be what I'm looking for...

I like the B31 - however, I am use to more. Try them - however, they
may not be enough for you at this time. In this realm - there will always
be comprimises. To me speakers really start to kick it up more, from the
$500 up mark. The price for the VS240 on the Boston refurbish site, is
the best that can be found at this time.

__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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