Pioneer's Speaker Genius Hits Low Price Point - Page 46 - AVS Forum
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Speakers > Pioneer's Speaker Genius Hits Low Price Point
chdwil's Avatar chdwil 08:29 PM 05-14-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by suikostinger View Post


EDIT EDIT EDIT: Actually I never looked at the Receiver you have, if you were the one looking at the cheap old model for $100, then it might not have the inserts for banana plugs, so unless you know it does, scratch off the banana plugs.

I was the one asking about that"cheap old receiver" which by the way has inserts for plugs on every terminal. Just because it isn't brand spankin new and I refuse to spend money on a new receiver doesn't make it a cheap receiver. It has what I need for now. I doubt I could find a new receiver under $500.00 that sounds as good.

suikostinger's Avatar suikostinger 09:22 PM 05-14-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by chdwil View Post

I was the one asking about that"cheap old receiver" which by the way has inserts for plugs on every terminal. Just because it isn't brand spankin new and I refuse to spend money on a new receiver doesn't make it a cheap receiver. It has what I need for now. I doubt I could find a new receiver under $500.00 that sounds as good.

Sorry, I meant cheap as in money wise, not quality wise and old as in an old one and $100 as in I meant the one that costs 100 1 dollar bills. I know what you mean. I almost bought my dads 6 year old receiver for 50 bucks because it sounds pretty nice and has NO banana plugs in the back because I was trying to save lots of money (that was before I found out it did have the MCAAC)
Melraidin's Avatar Melraidin 10:57 PM 05-14-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanbauer View Post

Is 16 gauge the thinnest speaker wire available? I definitely don't want the fat stuff like seen in this video.[URL removed from quote as I'm not allowed to post URLs] my speaker wires are running under the rug for the rears and along the wall for the fronts, so the more inconspicuous they are the better. Thanks for your help.

You'll likely get fairly widely differing opinions from some but I would generally say that anything thicker than 16 gauge is likely to be unnecessary for the majority of people. In most cases though 18 gauge is probably fine. I simply recommend 16 gauge as an easy recommendation that should always suffice.

The wire that came with the HTIB could be as thin as 20 gauge though so you might consider moving to something a little thicker. Perhaps go to a local store and have a look at how thick 18 gauge would be and whether it'd be an issue run under your carpets? Monoprice (and others) also have flat speaker wire available, you could look into it as well.
Spanbauer's Avatar Spanbauer 11:11 PM 05-14-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melraidin View Post

You'll likely get fairly widely differing opinions from some but I would generally say that anything thicker than 16 gauge is likely to be unnecessary for the majority of people. In most cases though 18 gauge is probably fine. I simply recommend 16 gauge as an easy recommendation that should always suffice.

The wire that came with the HTIB could be as thin as 20 gauge though so you might consider moving to something a little thicker. Perhaps go to a local store and have a look at how thick 18 gauge would be and whether it'd be an issue run under your carpets? Monoprice (and others) also have flat speaker wire available, you could look into it as well.

Thanks Melraidin. I ended up ordering 16 gauge wire. If it's too thick for the rear speakers I'll look into that flat speaker wire you mentioned.
Spanbauer's Avatar Spanbauer 05:23 PM 05-15-2011
Could anyone confirm for me that there's something on the bottom of the BS21's to mount them to speaker stands? I'm concerned now because I see there's nothing on the back, and a Best Buy employee told me there's nothing on the bottom either because they're "bookshelf speakers" (they didn't have any on display for me to check for myself). Thanks.


suikostinger's Avatar suikostinger 05:58 PM 05-15-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanbauer View Post

Could anyone confirm for me that there's something on the bottom of the BS21's to mount them to speaker stands? I'm concerned now because I see there's nothing on the back, and a Best Buy employee told me there's nothing on the bottom either because they're "bookshelf speakers" (they didn't have any on display for me to check for myself). Thanks.


Go to post #1250.

Also

http://www.amazon.com/TECHNOLOGY-WT-.../dp/B00006JQMX

Those are the only 2 stands I see for these. I have mine on my dresser underneath Stargate SG1 dvd box sets to make it 2 feet above my head on both sides. I would put the speakers on the Amazon stands instead of the dvd box seats, but I'm too cheap to buy the stands.
Spanbauer's Avatar Spanbauer 06:19 PM 05-15-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by suikostinger View Post

Go to post #1250.

Also

http://www.amazon.com/TECHNOLOGY-WT-.../dp/B00006JQMX

Those are the only 2 stands I see for these. I have mine on my dresser underneath Stargate SG1 dvd box sets to make it 2 feet above my head on both sides. I would put the speakers on the Amazon stands instead of the dvd box seats, but I'm too cheap to buy the stands.

Thanks for the reply suikostinger. So is that a negative on there being any kind of threaded hole on the bottom? Does anyone make a speaker stand that utilizes brackets like those wall mounts you linked to? That'd be perfect except I need them on 28" stands just behind the couch.

Edit: I think I just answered my own question. Think these will do the trick?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...DA/dear0226-20
zieglj01's Avatar zieglj01 06:26 PM 05-15-2011
Since we are talking about speakers designed by Andrew Jones -
I just won this bid on Ebay - the S-DF2-K speaker. I will compare
it to his present offerings. The word is that they are good.
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...-K?tab=manuals
afrogt's Avatar afrogt 06:44 PM 05-15-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanbauer View Post

Thanks for the reply suikostinger. So is that a negative on there being any kind of threaded hole on the bottom? Does anyone make a speaker stand that utilizes brackets like those wall mounts you linked to? That'd be perfect except I need them on 28" stands just behind the couch.

Edit: I think I just answered my own question. Think these will do the trick?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...DA/dear0226-20

why don't you just get regular speakers stands with a flat top plate?
http://www.amazon.com/Pangea-Audio-L...5506489&sr=8-7

that'll easily work for your Pioneer BS21 bookshelf speakers.

Just use Velcro squares, Velcro strips or Blu Tack to attach the speakers to the stand. I've been using Velcro squares for over 20 years. Works great.
suikostinger's Avatar suikostinger 08:09 PM 05-15-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanbauer View Post

Thanks for the reply suikostinger. So is that a negative on there being any kind of threaded hole on the bottom? Does anyone make a speaker stand that utilizes brackets like those wall mounts you linked to? That'd be perfect except I need them on 28" stands just behind the couch.

Edit: I think I just answered my own question. Think these will do the trick?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...DA/dear0226-20

You are correct, there is absolutely nothing on the bottom of the speaker. it's just a huge wooden box like speaker.

that is if the BS21 is the EXACT same as the BS41, I own the BS41 and they have nothing.


EDIT: As I've said I have the BS41 and you are getting the BS21. They look to be the EXACT same in dimensions (tell me if you know they aren't). If you buy those stands PLEASE message me or something on here and tell me how they work out for you. I've posted in here for some good stands for my BS41s and no one really showed me some stands I really want, until now. $40 dollars for 2 stands I can do.
Spanbauer's Avatar Spanbauer 08:44 PM 05-15-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by suikostinger View Post

You are correct, there is absolutely nothing on the bottom of the speaker. it's just a huge wooden box like speaker.

that is if the BS21 is the EXACT same as the BS41, I own the BS41 and they have nothing.


EDIT: As I've said I have the BS41 and you are getting the BS21. They look to be the EXACT same in dimensions (tell me if you know they aren't). If you buy those stands PLEASE message me or something on here and tell me how they work out for you. I've posted in here for some good stands for my BS41s and no one really showed me some stands I really want, until now. $40 dollars for 2 stands I can do.

Thanks. If I go with those I'll let you know how they work out. My only hesitation is that the brackets on the side won't physically support the curved pioneer speaker enclosures. I'm thinking I could construct a moon-shaped wedge to fill the gap between the bracket and the speaker as it curves toward the back. But if that doesn't work, there's not going to be enough surface area to try the Velcro method afrogt suggested. A flat plate design is going to work far better for that.
afrogt's Avatar afrogt 09:53 PM 05-15-2011
The BS41 is a little larger than the BS21 but the same curved cabinet design.

about an inch taller and 2lbs heavier and 1/2" or so wider and deeper.
Spanbauer's Avatar Spanbauer 10:02 PM 05-15-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

The BS41 is a little larger than the BS21 but the same curved cabinet design.

about an inch taller and 2lbs heavier and 1/2" or so wider and deeper.

In that case the Dayton Audio bracket stands definitely won't work for the BS41's - the maximum width of the brackets is barely wide enough for the BS21s.
suikostinger's Avatar suikostinger 10:11 PM 05-15-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

The BS41 is a little larger than the BS21 but the same curved cabinet design.

about an inch taller and 2lbs heavier and 1/2" or so wider and deeper.

Thanks. ANNNNNNDDD, that sucks for me.
mmmason23's Avatar mmmason23 06:13 PM 05-16-2011
Just bought the 21's, in sale at BB. I have an old infinity vss450 satellite system hooked up to a yamaha rx-v565. I swapped out the two pioneers for the two front satellites. I honestly couldn't tell the difference. Help? Shouldn't I have noticed a significant difference? Is my receiver too weak? The infinitys are just tiny little satellites
mmmason23's Avatar mmmason23 06:24 PM 05-16-2011
Oh and room is 15 ft long by 9 wide with an opening to the stairs in the front left corner, sit about ten feet from the screen. 85%tv 15 movies
afrogt's Avatar afrogt 07:02 PM 05-16-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmason23 View Post

Just bought the 21's, in sale at BB. I have an old infinity vss450 satellite system hooked up to a yamaha rx-v565. I swapped out the two pioneers for the two front satellites. I honestly couldn't tell the difference. Help? Shouldn't I have noticed a significant difference? Is my receiver too weak? The infinitys are just tiny little satellites

Did you rerun MCACC when you swapped out the speakers?
mmmason23's Avatar mmmason23 07:18 PM 05-16-2011
The receiver is a yamaha rx-v565. I didn't rerun ypao, I just changed the crossover manually from 120 down to 80. Maybe I'll rerun it. I tried the bookshelves with a phantom center and with my infinity center(knowing that it would sound a little weird) just couldn't really discern a difference. Will be upgrading the center in a couple of weeks hopefully
PTAaron's Avatar PTAaron 07:40 PM 05-16-2011
Definitely rerun your setup. I upgraded to the 51s and center from the same Infinities - and the difference was very noticeable.
mmmason23's Avatar mmmason23 08:03 PM 05-16-2011
I Only bought the 21's don't have the coin for the towers right now
tam099's Avatar tam099 10:37 PM 05-16-2011
I don't know if this has been posted, but there is a review of the BS41 in the June edition of Home Theater.
LL
LL
afrogt's Avatar afrogt 11:17 PM 05-16-2011
Okay, I was able to zoom in and read those two pages, where is the rest of the article?
tam099's Avatar tam099 12:18 AM 05-17-2011
Sorry, I read it in store and didn't buy it
Spanbauer's Avatar Spanbauer 06:30 PM 05-17-2011
Can anyone tell me how far from the bottom of the FS51 towers the speaker connections are? I'm trying to decide if i need to order more speaker wire before my speakers arrive. Thanks!
BurtReynolds's Avatar BurtReynolds 08:09 PM 05-17-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by automaton View Post

Wow, that would suck, and BBuy has only themselves to blame for its failure-- sales staff don't know anything about the speakers, except that they're not as loud as the Klipsch and Polks that they're next to. When I first started shopping, the sales guys gushed about the Polk/Klispch and told me they didn't know anything about the Pios except how cheap they were.

And, they were never connected correctly on the sales floor.

I went to my local BB to see them in the flesh (or laminate I guess) last weekend. They were just "out" in an aisle (literally sitting in the aisle, not even on a shelf like the others) connected to a AVR I couldn't see because it was in a box along with some Polk and I think some low end Klipsch. The salesman came over and turned them on for me, but they were connected to a sub (not the Pio sub) that seemed to be dominating the aisle, I couldn't hear much from the speakers. Not that I expected much, seeing the towers were at one end of the aisle, the bookshelfs about 3/4 down towards the other end and that sub was turned up too high.

He did seem to recognize why I was looking at them though, he mentioned interest has been picking up and "the word is getting out". He didn't try to push me into Magnolia or towards Polks or Klipsch.

As I wait for my Reward Zone money from the TV to hit my account (which will probably go towards the speakers), I had a couple question to the owners out there.
1) I haven't seen anyone bashing the build quality on this thread, are they really that good? One concern I have is that even the similarly priced Polks have a 5-year warranty on them, while the Pio's have 1. Usually that isn't a good sign, but I didn't not notice any red flags in this thread.

2) I am looking to spend around $500 for an AVR. Any suggestions that perform well with these? Really, HDMI 1.4 and about 4 HDMI inputs are all I really need. Everything else is pretty negotiable. I don't need a lot of legacy support. Some room to grow would be nice, but I know pre-amps aren't very common at this price point. Networked is nice, but nothing a laptop and an HDMI cable can't get past. I just wasn't sure if some AVRs performed better with these 6 ohm speakers than others. Or I am completely incorrect in thinking that would be an issue? I also wasn't sure of what to make of the relatively low sensitivity. 85 dB for the BS41? I've looked at a lot of speaker specs over the past month and don't remember much variation from the 89-90 mark at these price points. Or am I misinterpreting the specs to think that is a hurdle?
zieglj01's Avatar zieglj01 08:23 PM 05-17-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by BurtReynolds View Post

He did seem to recognize why I was looking at them though, he mentioned interest has been picking up and "the word is getting out". He didn't try to push me into Magnolia or towards Polks or Klipsch.

1) I haven't seen anyone bashing the build quality on this thread, are they really that good? One concern I have is that even the similarly priced Polks have a 5-year warranty on them, while the Pio's have 1. Usually that isn't a good sign, but I didn't not notice any red flags in this thread.

The build quality is good, I have checked them inside and out. At this
price with the sound quality, a one year warranty is no big deal.

You can get a good Denon for under $500 - Do not buy one in the
300 series. Do not worry about the 6 ohm thing - and do not be over
concerned, about specs. Everthing has been answered more than
once in this thread.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is a good Yamaha here, and with pre-outs > it will mate well with
the Pioneer's - do not go below the 600 series.
http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-V667.../dp/B003P2V52M

2) "I am looking to spend around $500 for an AVR. Any suggestions that
perform well with these? Really, HDMI 1.4 and about 4 HDMI inputs are all
I really need. Some room to grow would be nice, but I know pre-amps aren't
very common at this price point."
Spanbauer's Avatar Spanbauer 11:38 AM 05-18-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanbauer View Post

Can anyone tell me how far from the bottom of the FS51 towers the speaker connections are? I'm trying to decide if i need to order more speaker wire before my speakers arrive. Thanks!

Anybody? I'm 90% sure the speaker connectors are at the base of the FS51s, but I just want to make sure in case I need to order more cable. Thanks again.
afrogt's Avatar afrogt 11:47 AM 05-18-2011
If you think you're cutting it that close with speakers wire just order some more. You can always use it later.
PTAaron's Avatar PTAaron 01:07 PM 05-18-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanbauer View Post

Anybody? I'm 90% sure the speaker connectors are at the base of the FS51s, but I just want to make sure in case I need to order more cable. Thanks again.

Yes, they are at the base of the speakers
Spanbauer's Avatar Spanbauer 01:23 PM 05-18-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by PTAaron View Post

Yes, they are at the base of the speakers

Thanks so much, that's good news as it means the wire I ran yesterday evening will be more than long enough. I bought a 50ft roll and used every inch, so I made the left and right speaker cables as long as I could with what I had left. If the connectors hadn't been at the base of the speakers, there wouldn't have been enough slack for the cable to run neatly along the baseboards. But knowing that it is means there's a good 2-3 feet free wire for each speaker. Thanks again!
Tags: Pioneer Andrew Jones Sp Fs52 Flr Stand Loudspeaker , Pioneer Andrew Jones Designed Bookshelf Loudspeakers Sp Bs22 Lr , Pioneer , Speakers Subwoofers , Speaker Systems , Pioneer Sp Bs41 Lr 130 Watt Rms 2 Way Speaker , Elite Vsx 31 A V Receiver
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