Pioneer's Speaker Genius Hits Low Price Point - Page 71 - AVS Forum
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post #2101 of 5701 Old 02-17-2012, 01:48 PM
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So I pulled the trigger on the New Egg sale last week and bought two pair of BS21s and the C21 Center as well as the SW-8 sub. I also bought the VSX-1021-k on sale as well. I've currently only got the 21's and sub set up in 2.1 because I've not been able to get the whole 5.1 set up yet. My issue is this: I'm in an apartment so the room is pretty small. I know the sensitity on the BS21's are pretty low at 87 dB but it concerns me that in order to hear music at a regular listening level I have to crank the AVR up to like -30dB. Am I doing something wrong or is this the result of the low sensitity? Should I wait to unbox the other set of 21s and hope that the FS51s go back on sale at NE because I really hate to have to crank the volume that much just to just enjoy music. Thanks for the help.
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post #2102 of 5701 Old 02-17-2012, 02:11 PM
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I typically listen to music at -40 to -30 and movies at -20 to -15, so that doesn't seem strange to me...
What level did you use for your previous speakers with that AVR, or is this the first time you used the AVR?

-Aaron
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post #2103 of 5701 Old 02-17-2012, 02:19 PM
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I tipically listened music with the "old" denon Speakers at -30db, a medium/high volume, with the Pios F51, have to set at -23db to listen at a similar volume I had with the Denons, also for me it´s a expected volume
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post #2104 of 5701 Old 02-17-2012, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxcd1 View Post

My issue is this: I'm in an apartment so the room is pretty small. I know the sensitity on the BS21's are pretty low at 87 dB but it concerns me that in order to hear music at a regular listening level I have to crank the AVR up to like -30dB.

-30db does not seem cranked to me. That's a low listening volume on my receiver with my 91db sensitivity speakers. Keep in mind you have to double the wattage to go 3db louder. Your receiver is barely pushing any wattage at that volume setting.

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post #2105 of 5701 Old 02-17-2012, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PTAaron View Post

I typically listen to music at -40 to -30 and movies at -20 to -15, so that doesn't seem strange to me...
What level did you use for your previous speakers with that AVR, or is this the first time you used the AVR?

This is my first experience with any AVR or HT setup. I just got both of them this week from the New Egg sale. I was just curious if that volume level was normal. I assumed it is with speakers with such a low sensitivity. Don't get me wrong, they sound great. Even the BS21s with the SW8 sub in a 2.1 setup sound fantastic. My concern was just that I had to turn the volume up to almost -45 to -50 before I could even hear anything. I know it's logarithmic so it will get much louder as I get closer to 0 dB.

Right now I'm pretty overwhelmed with all of the settings on my 1021k. I'm glad I found this board.
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post #2106 of 5701 Old 02-17-2012, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxcd1 View Post

This is my first experience with any AVR or HT setup. I just got both of them this week from the New Egg sale. I was just curious if that volume level was normal. I assumed it is with speakers with such a low sensitivity. Don't get me wrong, they sound great. Even the BS21s with the SW8 sub in a 2.1 setup sound fantastic. My concern was just that I had to turn the volume up to almost -45 to -50 before I could even hear anything. I know it's logarithmic so it will get much louder as I get closer to 0 dB.

Right now I'm pretty overwhelmed with all of the settings on my 1021k. I'm glad I found this board.

I would say that what you are experiencing is pretty normal.
For my setup -50 is pretty much inaudible.

-Aaron
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post #2107 of 5701 Old 02-17-2012, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Samurai Jack View Post

Btw again, the whole 5.0 set of Energy Take 5's is on half price fire sale at newegg, too.

Yeah, I purchased the Energy RC Micro 5.1 set and I'm kind of disappointed with them. I think I relied too heavily on reviews that websites such as CNET made, and these speakers (when I bought them) were the best bang for the buck that I could see.

I made a thread elsewhere on the forums and a few posters pointed me in this direction and I've been looking into the thread, considering putting my money into this set.
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post #2108 of 5701 Old 02-18-2012, 12:39 AM
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I did the $285 BB deal for towers, bookshelfs, and center tonight. The towers are only 31.5", so I'm using them as main L/R but as bookshelf speakers in our open-backed bookcases. I think with the open backs the ports should not cause problems. The towers probably have less interior volume than my old "bookshelf" studio monitor speakers that will now be used for stereo music only.

I'm then using the bookshelf speakers as surrounds of course.

I'm not sure how many of the subs to get; the room is about 3000 cuft. One (seems not enough)? 2? 3? 4? They are so cheap, you can buy them like bananas, in bunches. But an 8" sub? I dunno. I'll go back through this thread and look for info.
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post #2109 of 5701 Old 02-18-2012, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derangedhermit View Post

I did the $285 BB deal for towers, bookshelfs, and center tonight. The towers are only 31.5", so I'm using them as main L/R but as bookshelf speakers in our open-backed bookcases. I think with the open backs the ports should not cause problems. The towers probably have less interior volume than my old "bookshelf" studio monitor speakers that will now be used for stereo music only.

I'm then using the bookshelf speakers as surrounds of course.

I'm not sure how many of the subs to get; the room is about 3000 cuft. One (seems not enough)? 2? 3? 4? They are so cheap, you can buy them like bananas, in bunches. But an 8" sub? I dunno. I'll go back through this thread and look for info.

I would just go pick up one BIG HSU or SVS sub
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post #2110 of 5701 Old 02-18-2012, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by dsg2003gt View Post

I would just go pick up one BIG HSU or SVS sub

I second that advice. A single Hsu will completely spank a pair of sw-8s. Bigger driver will delve to lower frequencies, and will do it clean and without chuffing. I've heard good things about SVS, too. Your first good sub is a pretty revelatory experience.

And to the guy above thinking about going with these over the Energy micro set, yes, I think you'd hear a big difference in range just due to driver size. I have a better theater setup in my dedicated room...but these deliver a really quality experience at this price. I can't imagine someone looking for a budget setup would be disappointed Wo these unless it was due to problems with their size or looks (I actually think they look good in my setup, but there's a lot of oak flooring and trim in this room so it works).

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post #2111 of 5701 Old 02-18-2012, 07:32 PM
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I moved my Pioneer set to a second room, and am about to choose a budget sub. The Pioneer's hung with a $2,000 sub just fine, so it'll be interesting to choose a budget sub for them.

I'm deciding between the BIC F-12 or VK-12, the Dayton 1200, PA-120, or PL-200. I want to keep it around the $150 price range, and I want the sub to be able to hit as close to 20hz as it can. Anyone have a similar setup that can give their thoughts?
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post #2112 of 5701 Old 02-18-2012, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai Jack View Post

I second that advice. A single Hsu will completely spank a pair of sw-8s. Bigger driver will delve to lower frequencies, and will do it clean and without chuffing. I've heard good things about SVS, too.

No doubt a big one will. The cheapest Hsu is the $270 STF-1, with an 8" driver, same as the SW-8 that is on sale now for $95, free shipping. It would be interesting to have someone do a $4$ comparison. I'm not at all sure the smallest Hsu would be better than three SW-8s sharing the load.

The next Hsu at $350 gets you a 10" driver, but again it's not clear that it would perform better, overall, than an SW-8 in each corner of the room. Probably go lower.

All the SVS models cost much more than either Hsu.

I think I'll stick an SW-8 under or beside each FS51 and call it "good enough".
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post #2113 of 5701 Old 02-19-2012, 07:50 AM
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Has anyone else noticed the new speakers that have just shown up on Pioneer's site? The Series 3?? I just noticed them this morning while checking on dimensions of the FS-51s.

S-31C-K Center - $299

S-31B-LR-K Bookshelf - $349

S-31-LR-K Floorstander - $749

Can't post URLs.....sorry.
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post #2114 of 5701 Old 02-19-2012, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derangedhermit View Post

No doubt a big one will. The cheapest Hsu is the $270 STF-1, with an 8" driver, same as the SW-8 that is on sale now for $95, free shipping. It would be interesting to have someone do a $4$ comparison. I'm not at all sure the smallest Hsu would be better than three SW-8s sharing the load.

The next Hsu at $350 gets you a 10" driver, but again it's not clear that it would perform better, overall, than an SW-8 in each corner of the room. Probably go lower.

All the SVS models cost much more than either Hsu.

I think I'll stick an SW-8 under or beside each FS51 and call it "good enough".

You might look at the Outlaw Audio M8. Similar to the STF-1, and available as b-stock for $225 shipped. It has twice the max rated power of the SW-8. It has a -3db of 29hz; the SW-8 is listed with 38hz low end without a -3db rating, which generally means they are stretching that spec. That extra frequency range will be better for HT use. The M8 is a higher class of sub, so the bass accuracy will be better. Here's a review at CNET. For $35 more than two SW-8s, you are getting better sub.

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post #2115 of 5701 Old 02-19-2012, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RLembke View Post

Has anyone else noticed the new speakers that have just shown up on Pioneer's site? The Series 3?? I just noticed them this morning while checking on dimensions of the FS-51s.

S-31C-K Center - $299

S-31B-LR-K Bookshelf - $349

S-31-LR-K Floorstander - $749

Can't post URLs.....sorry.

Those are not new, been around since about 2010 I think.
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post #2116 of 5701 Old 02-19-2012, 05:30 PM
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does anyone find that on songs with a bit of bass the midrange speaker seems to distort? I am experiencing this on both speakers, so I dont think it is just one blown driver. This is with the speakers being driven in direct/auto with MCACC and crossover between 80-150. The crossover doesn't really matter because it occurs with more middle bass frequencies (200+hz).

Speakers are being driven by a 94TXH between -20 and -40db.
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post #2117 of 5701 Old 02-19-2012, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsg2003gt View Post

does anyone find that on songs with a bit of bass the midrange speaker seems to distort quite a bit? I am experiencing this on both speakers, so I dont think it is just one blown driver. This is with the speakers being driven in direct/auto with MCACC and crossover between 80-150. The crossover doesn't really matter because it occurs with more middle bass frequencies (200+hz).

Speakers are being driven by a 94TXH between -20 and -40db.

I have not noticed this at all on my setup.
Have you tried it with MCACC turned off?

-Aaron
My Basement Movie Room and Bar/Game Room - actually doing stuff now... please comment!
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post #2118 of 5701 Old 02-19-2012, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RLembke View Post

Has anyone else noticed the new speakers that have just shown up on Pioneer's site? The Series 3?? I just noticed them this morning while checking on dimensions of the FS-51s.
S-31C-K Center - $299
S-31B-LR-K Bookshelf - $349
S-31-LR-K Floorstander - $749

Do not pay full price for them

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Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
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post #2119 of 5701 Old 02-20-2012, 05:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsg2003gt View Post

does anyone find that on songs with a bit of bass the midrange speaker seems to distort? I am experiencing this on both speakers, so I dont think it is just one blown driver. This is with the speakers being driven in direct/auto with MCACC and crossover between 80-150. The crossover doesn't really matter because it occurs with more middle bass frequencies (200+hz).

Speakers are being driven by a 94TXH between -20 and -40db.

What does your distortion sound like? Can you describe what you're hearing? I may have noticed something on one of my fs51's.

Interesting thought about grabbing a couple of sw-8's and using them as speaker stands for the FS51 floorstanders. Those really do need to picked up off the floor a good bit. Doing so improved them tremendously for me.

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post #2120 of 5701 Old 02-20-2012, 08:56 AM
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Just thought I would post pics of my set up

Attachment 237826



Attachment 237825
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post #2121 of 5701 Old 02-20-2012, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by SDB30 View Post

Just thought I would post pics of my set up

Very nice!

-Aaron
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post #2122 of 5701 Old 02-20-2012, 09:57 AM
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Thanks! Just got everything set up last week, now I have to get a new sub, I have an 8 in 100 Watt denon at the moment, leaning toward BIC f12
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post #2123 of 5701 Old 02-20-2012, 11:30 AM
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Just thought I would post pics of my set up

Very nice look
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post #2124 of 5701 Old 02-20-2012, 12:08 PM
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I just got the Bic F12 for my second system.

The Pioneers moved into a much smaller room, and I added a BIC F12 and Pioneer 521k.

Total cost of my 5.1 Pioneer system with $50 best buy gift card (FS51s $99, BS41s $99, C21 $30 (/w gc), VSX-521 $139, Bic F12 $166.

Total = $535

That is the best budget 5.1 system I could put together for the price. This would completely satisfy a non audiophile on an extreme budget to put a 5.1 system together that sounds good.
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post #2125 of 5701 Old 02-20-2012, 12:39 PM
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At the moment I'm using a denon avr-391 receiver, which came with a htib system I purchased last year, very low end receiver but sounds good to me. I'm thinking of replacing with pioneer 821 receiver, will that give me much improvement?
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post #2126 of 5701 Old 02-20-2012, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDB30 View Post

At the moment I'm using a denon avr-391 receiver, which came with a htib system I purchased last year, very low end receiver but sounds good to me. I'm thinking of replacing with pioneer 821 receiver, will that give me much improvement?

The Denon 391 is the low model in Denon's product line, similar to the 1312. The VSX-821 is only one model up from the bottom in Pioneer's. I wouldn't count on improvement in power output or SQ. If the 391 sounds good to you and it has plenty of volume, wait until you can make a bigger upgrade jump in a receiver. Or put some of your money towards an even better sub than the BIC F12, such as the BIC PL-200.

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post #2127 of 5701 Old 02-20-2012, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDB30 View Post

At the moment I'm using a denon avr-391 receiver, which came with a htib system I purchased last year, very low end receiver but sounds good to me. I'm thinking of replacing with pioneer 821 receiver, will that give me much improvement?

I´m in the the exact same situation, I like the sound I get from my equipment, and, for the moment, have no intentions of changing it, maybe at the end of the year.
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post #2128 of 5701 Old 02-20-2012, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

The Denon 391 is the low model in Denon's product line, similar to the 1312. The VSX-821 is only one model up from the bottom in Pioneer's. I wouldn't count on improvement in power output or SQ. If the 391 sounds good to you and it has plenty of volume, wait until you can make a bigger upgrade jump in a receiver. Or put some of your money towards an even better sub than the BIC F12, such as the BIC PL-200.

I couldn't agree more... IMO the 391 is a better receiver than the pioneer 821 and prob runs a lot cooler. My brother has a 1121 from last yr and it runs hot! take that for what it worth but just saying i wouldn't make that upgrade. i like the denon/pio combo
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post #2129 of 5701 Old 02-20-2012, 02:54 PM
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Just thought I would post pics of my set up

What are you using for the wall mount? And how did you attach it? I'm very curious about wall mount options.

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post #2130 of 5701 Old 02-20-2012, 03:11 PM
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Here's a picture of the sp-bs41 with the grill off, and the tools I used to gently remove the grill (it was easy and easily reversible). As you can see, there's nothing beautiful going on under there.

Attachment 237872

Attachment 237873
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