Pioneer's Speaker Genius Hits Low Price Point - Page 83 - AVS Forum
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Old 05-10-2012, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by joehonest View Post

The Pioneer SW-8 sub @$80 and Pioneer SP-BS21 @$50.. There is a good reason why there dumping them.. If they were so good why would be selling them so cheap and still with the give away pricing the pioneers are still around.. They are just to warm sounding, dull maybe a better word.. You can tweak them, but still there dynamic range sounds compressed, there is no fix for that short fall...

I own them, and although they aren't SPECTACULAR, I think they are pretty darn good. I've hooked up a number of different speakers (none in the 10000$ price range) and these are my favorite of the bunch.

I think a large part of why this range failed is because of size, a LOT of people just thought the speakers were too big (mostly the Center Channel), and most people want the F, R, C to match, so they just dismiss the entire range.
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Old 05-10-2012, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by master0068 View Post

I own them, and although they aren't SPECTACULAR, I think they are pretty darn good. I've hooked up a number of different speakers (none in the 10000$ price range) and these are my favorite of the bunch.

I think a large part of why this range failed is because of size, a LOT of people just thought the speakers were too big (mostly the Center Channel), and most people want the F, R, C to match, so they just dismiss the entire range.

Regarding the Pioneer's warmth: personally I think many other speakers in their price range are too BRIGHT, leading many to believe anything that produces realistic levels of the higher frequencies is defective in some way. IMO this is the result of designing speakers optimized for home theater use, so a movie's SFX are produced with adequate detail (I can't blame those speakers' designers for doing that, because so many people these days think a system intended for music playback should consist of nothing more than a plastic iPod docking boombox thing ).

Their size: sheesh don't get me started! I believe that mostly due to some slick marketing, a whole generation of people now think anything larger than a smartphone is old-fashioned and simply not needed anymore. Not to me! The laws of physics say otherwise*, at least for the people who are in pursuit of truly good sound. Also, subwoofers for home use have been around since the 1960s, but it was only until a certain company started pushing little cubes in the late 80s that people began to abandon conventional speakers. And before sub fans start writing angry posts, I do realize a sub is needed for a movie's lowest bass SFX and for music they can also be of benefit, but it's the size of the satellites that I am discussing here, especially for music-oriented systems (this reviewer pretty much agrees - see the second paragraph).

* also: this may seem a bit off-topic, but I have to add that as someone who is worried about the amount of resources we have left with which to build our various gadgets, I realize a sat+sub system using tiny, politically-correct-size satellites uses less materials. But even this tree hugger has limits! And anyway, larger speakers usually are constructed of wood (MDF & veneers) which is a recyclable & renewable resource.
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Old 05-10-2012, 11:03 AM
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Well, now days many people are looking for small slim and sexy and would not consider the Pioneer line because of their size. But their size it what makes them sound so good especially in their price range (and even above).

They are a warm sounding speaker, some here say too warm (I disagree). Others say their competitors are too bright. To me they sound very good and dialog and vocals come across very clear. I enjoy being able to actually hear the Dialog in movies now.

The fact they are being sold for a REALLY good price doesn't mean they are junk. They have been around for some time now and like most products there comes a time when they are discontinued. We have all bought a product when the priced dropped due to clearing out inventory. I'm just ecstatic I was able to get these for the price I got them for. I think they are a good value at retail and a spectacular deal at the sale price.

I don't have the sub-woofer. It just weakest link in the line. BS21 a good but the BS 41 and FS51 are the real stars is this line up. The BS 21 make a very good surround speaker for the average HT room.

At home I have the FS51, C21 and BS21 and they sound great (paid $219.97)

At my business I have the BS41, C21 (Center) and two C21 as surrounds in a LARGE (about 2000 Sq. Ft.) room and they also sound great (paid about $286)
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Old 05-10-2012, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RojasTKD View Post

Well, now days many people are looking for small slim and sexy and would not consider the Pioneer line because of their size. But their size it what makes them sound so good especially in their price range (and even above).

Wait, i'm sorry, people dislike the 51's because they are too big?

HAVE:

Receiver: Marantz SR6004
Speakers: Philharmonic 2; TagMclaren Calliope; Pioneer BS-22
Sub: W15GTI MKII (Tuned to 20hz; 300 liter enclosure) X 2
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Old 05-10-2012, 11:26 AM
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I need to buy a pair of speaker stands for the BS21 surrounds in my 5.1 system. Ear level is about 33 inches and I plan to place the speakers about 3 feet from either side of my couch, what height would you guys recommend I place the speakers?
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Old 05-10-2012, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Monkish54 View Post

Wait, i'm sorry, people dislike the 51's because they are too big?

I was referring mainly to the BS (bookshelf) speakers and the center.

Many many people have commented on the size of the center in particular, myself included. I had to build a stand that was big enough to contain them, as they would not fit in the stand where my previous center lived. But I loved their rich sound and dialog I could hear and understand much better than ever before, that. I didn't mind the extra effort to make them fit.
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Old 05-10-2012, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by RojasTKD View Post


I was referring mainly to the BS (bookshelf) speakers and the center.

Many many people have commented on the size of the center in particular, myself included. I had to build a stand that was big enough to contain them, as they would not fit in the stand where my previous center lived. But I loved their rich sound and dialog I could hear and understand much better than ever before, that. I didn't mind the extra effort to make them fit.

Ohhhhh ok. I was a little befuddled as the 51's are tiny.

If you make the bookshelf/center smaller SQ will suffer.

Personally, I don't use a center. I go phantom. If I were constructing a 5.2 (or .4) setup with the Pioneer's I'd go three 51's for L/C/R and 41's for rears. Using a 51 for a center might be an issue with the TV however, so I could see why people don't do it.

When spending in this price point people generally don't build their room around there speakers. :P (That is most certainly not a criticism!)

HAVE:

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Speakers: Philharmonic 2; TagMclaren Calliope; Pioneer BS-22
Sub: W15GTI MKII (Tuned to 20hz; 300 liter enclosure) X 2
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Old 05-10-2012, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Monkish54 View Post

Ohhhhh ok. I was a little befuddled as the 51's are tiny.

If you make the bookshelf/center smaller SQ will suffer.

Personally, I don't use a center. I go phantom. If I were constructing a 5.2 (or .4) setup with the Pioneer's I'd go three 51's for L/C/R and 41's for rears. Using a 51 for a center might be an issue with the TV however, so I could see why people don't do it.

When spending in this price point people generally don't build there room around there speakers. :P (That is most certainly not a criticism!)

Yes the FS51s are small as far as towers go, or better stated short as far as towers go.

I agree 51s as L/C/R and 41 for surrounds would be a great setup. Even 41 all around would be stellar. For most people the BS21 would suffice for surrounds, I went with C21 for surrounds it my business because I was a large room and I didn't think the BS21 would cut it, and they where more cost effective than the BS41. I was going to go with C21 all around but scored the BS41 on ebay for $130ish shipped, so I used them for front L & R speakers. Very happy with them and the 51 and 21 I have at home.
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Old 05-10-2012, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RojasTKD View Post

Yes the FS51s are small as far as towers go, or better stated short as far as towers go.

They're definitely short for tower speakers. They are also just plain small. Look at the dimensions of the speakers mentioned below. They are all very very large.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RojasTKD View Post

I agree 51s as L/C/R and 41 for surrounds would be a great setup. Even 41 all around would be stellar. For most people the BS21 would suffice for surrounds, I went with C21 for surrounds it my business because I was a large room and I didn't think the BS21 would cut it, and they where more cost effective than the BS41. I was going to go with C21 all around but scored the BS41 on ebay for $130ish shipped, so I used them for L & R speakers. Very happy with them and the 51 and 21 I have at home.

I very much enjoyed them when I owned them! Great speakers for the price. That's how $200 speakers SHOULD sound. Unfortunately, most companies are lame and rip people off.

Do a search for Burmester B80 on google. There should be a DIYAudio link. The thread discusses the drivers used for the B80. ($40,000.) The driver cost is just under $1500. The crossover is rough too. 40K for a speaker I could build myself for roughly 2K (If even that!)

I haven't been able to find performance that I can truly live with under 10K. It's ridiculous. 10K was the cheapest!

I've demoed 24 speakers. Of those, I could only live with:

KEF Blade $30,000
TAD Compact Reference One (Andrew Jones ;D) $38,000
KEF Reference 207/2 $20,000
Revel Salon 2 $22,000
Pioneer S-1EX (Andrew Jones) $10,000

DIY on the other hand has an excellent price/performance ratio!

HAVE:

Receiver: Marantz SR6004
Speakers: Philharmonic 2; TagMclaren Calliope; Pioneer BS-22
Sub: W15GTI MKII (Tuned to 20hz; 300 liter enclosure) X 2
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Old 05-10-2012, 03:22 PM
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Speakers for "B"- ZONE.
I want to stay in this speaker line because they sound great and I can afford them.

2 floorstanders, 2 bookshelves (either bs-21's or 41's), or two center channel speakers too project 2 CH music outdoors from the balcony down to the garden bout 100' away.

Speaker wire will snake through house, receiver too balcony bout 100' as well.

100' of speaker wire X-2, what size?
Two of those speakers mentioned to project 100' of sound

What would you guys use?
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Old 05-10-2012, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by PHOSCHEKER View Post

Speakers for "B"- ZONE.
I want to stay in this speaker line because they sound great and I can afford them.

2 floorstanders, 2 bookshelves (either bs-21's or 41's), or two center channel speakers too project 2 CH music outdoors from the balcony down to the garden bout 100' away.

Speaker wire will snake through house, receiver too balcony bout 100' as well.

100' of speaker wire X-2, what size?
Two of those speakers mentioned to project 100' of sound

What would you guys use?

So wait, you are asking 2 things, correct?

- What gage of wire for 100'?

- What speakers should you use to play 2 channel music 100' away?

HAVE:

Receiver: Marantz SR6004
Speakers: Philharmonic 2; TagMclaren Calliope; Pioneer BS-22
Sub: W15GTI MKII (Tuned to 20hz; 300 liter enclosure) X 2
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Old 05-10-2012, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Monkish54 View Post

So wait, you are asking 2 things, correct?

- What gage of wire for 100'?

- What speakers should you use to play 2 channel music 100' away?



Yes.

Is there a limit? just kiddn.

Yeah, im hearing that they are doing away with this speaker line so I want to snatch up some more. Newegg dont have em anymore, so im going B-Buy.
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Old 05-10-2012, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by PHOSCHEKER View Post


Yes.

Is there a limit? just kiddn.

Yeah, im hearing that they are doing away with this speaker line so I want to snatch up some more. Newegg dont have em anymore, so im going B-Buy.

:P

I can't help you in the gauge department.

However, using these speakers at 100' is probably too much for the poor lil guys to handle. in order to get 77db at 100 feet the speaker would have to play 107db at 1 meter (aprox. 3 feet.)

HAVE:

Receiver: Marantz SR6004
Speakers: Philharmonic 2; TagMclaren Calliope; Pioneer BS-22
Sub: W15GTI MKII (Tuned to 20hz; 300 liter enclosure) X 2
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Old 05-10-2012, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHOSCHEKER View Post

Speaker wire will snake through house, receiver too balcony bout 100' as well.

100' of speaker wire X-2, what size?
Two of those speakers mentioned to project 100' of sound

10awg wire - however, good luck on hearing anything. And buy some
more spare speakers, to replace the ones that do not survive.

__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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Old 05-10-2012, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post


10awg wire - however, good luck on hearing anything. And buy some
more spare speakers, to replace the ones that do not survive.

You could try Cerwin Vega!

Can you move them closer?

HAVE:

Receiver: Marantz SR6004
Speakers: Philharmonic 2; TagMclaren Calliope; Pioneer BS-22
Sub: W15GTI MKII (Tuned to 20hz; 300 liter enclosure) X 2
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Old 05-10-2012, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Monkish54 View Post

You could try Cerwin Vega!

Oh, have mercy
Cerwin Vega
http://www.a1components.com/BVModule...d-8c0a6c1c987a
http://www.amazon.com/Cerwin-Int-152...692351&sr=8-22

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Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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Old 05-10-2012, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

10awg wire - however, good luck on hearing anything. And buy some
more spare speakers, to replace the ones that do not survive.


Love the responses!

I already found out what it takes to uhh "kill" the FS-51's, Wont do that again. (err, go that loud)

Well, I could move them closer, would take alot more speaker wire but I could. !0 guage! Ok, will try that. If I move them closer I will be pushing
150' out of the ol pioneer 821-K in living room.

Cerwin Vega, haha, ohh yahh. My next upgrade is 2 xls/cls-215's, goin BIG BOYS! Keeping it all stereo on that one and slamming those in the garage. Just to remind me of my Stanford days.

My nieghbors are gunna FREAK when that happens
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Old 05-11-2012, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by JackDiesel14 View Post

I need to buy a pair of speaker stands for the BS21 surrounds in my 5.1 system. Ear level is about 33 inches and I plan to place the speakers about 3 feet from either side of my couch, what height would you guys recommend I place the speakers?

If you are using the 21's as surrounds, may I suggest the Pangea LS-02 speaker stands. These are available on Amazon and Audio Advisor websites. I bought the 36" size which is just about perfect for surround duty. The stands are made of hollow steel tubing which can be further weighted down with either steel shot or sand. Also, by drilling a small hole in the top and bottom plates, speaker wire can be fed up through the tubes if the sight of external wiring bothers you. They stands appear to have gone up a bit in price as I paid $49. But still a very nice stand for the money. They worked out great for me, hope they work for you.
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Old 05-12-2012, 03:40 PM
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Hey when are these back on sale at newegg for $50? Somebody let me know....who has the center now i see new egg is sold out..........
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Old 05-12-2012, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by The Murderousone View Post

Hey when are these back on sale at newegg for $50? Somebody let me know....who has the center now i see new egg is sold out..........

Why don't you sign up for emails from Newegg? Then you won't have to wait for someone else to notify you?

Best buy sells the center speaker.

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Old 05-12-2012, 06:10 PM
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Yeap Best Buy has them on sale for about $60 right now.

Samsung 51" Plasma E530, Pioneer SC-1222-K, Sony BDP-S5200, Roku 3, Custom HTPC/XBMC, KEF Q600c -center, KEF Q900- mains, Definitive Technology SM450- side surrounds, Definitive Technology SM350- rear surrounds, Custom sub 'end table' with 12" Oz Audio Matrix Elite, Crown XLS 1500 sub amp, Harmony 650 and IRule remotes
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Old 05-13-2012, 09:24 PM
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is it safe to say now that these speakers wont be going on sale for those great prices on newegg a month or so ago?

i bought the towers for $130 a pair, bs21s $50 a pair, c21 for $50 back when newegg had those sales.

reason i ask is several people i know are interested in a budget system and i want to recommend these, when on sale.

ill have to recommend the energy take 5.0 ($150 when on sale at newegg) if these half off prices wont be coming back.

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Old 05-18-2012, 09:40 PM
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Pioneer SP-BS21-LR Bookshelf Loudspeakers Pair is back to $49.99 with promo code EMCNEJB84, along with the Pioneer SW-8 subwoofer for $79.99 with promo code EMCNEJB56 at NewEgg.

If past behaviour is an indicator of future behaviour, then we can expect the SP-FS51-LR and SP-C21 to be back on sale soon, though for now both show as out of stock.
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Old 05-19-2012, 09:13 PM
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The reason that the prices have been reduced is because this line of speakers is coming to the end of their life cycle. Also, speakers sold in California have new environmental requirements for wood products (Phase 2). We will be updating/improving this line in the next couple of months.

If anyone is interested, Scott Wilkinson from Home theater will be interviewing Andrew Jones on Monday for his Home Theater Geeks podcast on the Twit Network. Andrew will be discussing the new models.

Also, Andrew and I are going to host an open house at our office in Long Beach, Ca for AVS Forum Members that want to come in and have a listen to the new line. You can ask any questions (Speaker related) you want and compare the new models with the old ones, as well as competitive models. I am going to try and see if we can have a full TAD setup as well.

I will post a message in this thread once I lock down the date. Should be in late May/Early June.

Thanks,

Chris Walker
Director Product Planning
Pioneer Electronics
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Old 05-19-2012, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkamo View Post

If anyone is interested, Scott Wilkinson from Home theater will be interviewing Andrew Jones on Monday for his Home Theater Geeks podcast on the Twit Network. Andrew will be discussing the new models.

I'll have to check this out, thanks for letting us know!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkamo View Post

Also, Andrew and I are going to host an open house at our office in Long Beach, Ca for AVS Forum Members that want to come in and have a listen to the new line. You can ask any questions (Speaker related) you want and compare the new models with the old ones, as well as competitive models. I am going to try and see if we can have a full TAD setup as well.

I'll do my best to be there! I've met Andrew on a separate occasion. It was very cool experience!!

A full TAD setup would be absolutely amazing!

HAVE:

Receiver: Marantz SR6004
Speakers: Philharmonic 2; TagMclaren Calliope; Pioneer BS-22
Sub: W15GTI MKII (Tuned to 20hz; 300 liter enclosure) X 2
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Old 05-20-2012, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkamo View Post

The reason that the prices have been reduced is because this line of speakers is coming to the end of their life cycle. Also, speakers sold in California have new environmental requirements for wood products (Phase 2). We will be updating/improving this line in the next couple of months.

If anyone is interested, Scott Wilkinson from Home theater will be interviewing Andrew Jones on Monday for his Home Theater Geeks podcast on the Twit Network. Andrew will be discussing the new models.

Also, Andrew and I are going to host an open house at our office in Long Beach, Ca for AVS Forum Members that want to come in and have a listen to the new line. You can ask any questions (Speaker related) you want and compare the new models with the old ones, as well as competitive models. I am going to try and see if we can have a full TAD setup as well.

I will post a message in this thread once I lock down the date. Should be in late May/Early June.

Thanks,

Chris Walker
Director Product Planning
Pioneer Electronics

Chris,

When can we expect to see the details on the new speakers available on Pioneer's website?

COMING SOONFinding the Ark of the Covenant by Brian Roberts, in the iBook Store on iTunes, a new investigation into the Hebrew’s Most Sacred Relic!
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Old 05-20-2012, 08:47 AM
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With this new information of the refresh of this speaker line, will there be any chance of finding the BS41's on sale anywhere? All I can find is list (or more).

TIA
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Old 05-20-2012, 10:40 AM
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The new models will not be on the website until July.

And yes you will start seeing the last production run of 41's show up soon online.

Thanks,

Chris Walker
Pioneer Electronics
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Old 05-20-2012, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by BeechTom View Post

With this new information of the refresh of this speaker line, will there be any chance of finding the BS41's on sale anywhere? All I can find is list (or more).

TIA

Try ebay... about a month a ago I picked up a pair of new BS-41 for about $125 shipped. $105 + $20 shipping, I think I did pretty good. I'm sure the seller was hoping to make a little more.

There is a seller called "compeve_corp" who is selling the BS41s for 157.99 + 26.40 shipping OR BEST OFFER. Maybe he will except reasonable offer that your ok with. He must have a bunch, he's sold 24 over the past month and a half and still has more.
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Old 05-20-2012, 12:16 PM
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Thanks Chris, Rojas, looks like I better be searching a little harder.
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Pioneer Andrew Jones Sp Fs52 Flr Stand Loudspeaker , Pioneer Andrew Jones Designed Bookshelf Loudspeakers Sp Bs22 Lr , Pioneer , Speakers Subwoofers , Speaker Systems , Pioneer Sp Bs41 Lr 130 Watt Rms 2 Way Speaker , Elite Vsx 31 A V Receiver
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