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-   -   Pioneer's Speaker Genius Hits Low Price Point (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/1278774-pioneer-s-speaker-genius-hits-low-price-point.html)

cvictorg 09-24-2010 07:57 AM

http://blog.hometheatermag.com/cedia2010/092310pioneer/

Andrew Jones of TAD has been designing hugely underrated speakers for Pioneer for years. Until now his bleeding-edge designs have been high-priced. But the SP-BS41-LR hits a new low price point of $199/pair in hopes of moving units through big-box retailers. The curved cabinet is cooked and formed, in lieu of the more conventional cut and fold process. Center and surround models are available to form a 5.1 system that will go for under $1000. The slim tower at far right is the Series 9, whose drivers were designed specifically for the enclosure. A vertical tube feeding out the bottom sucks away standing waves.

http://news.ecoustics.com/bbs/messag...81/649747.html

RonaldoCombs 09-25-2010 10:29 PM

This could be a big deal, I'm looking forward to auditioning, we may have a new value leader!

Here's a link with the Andrew Jones video: Speaker Snobs Sob

Ron

cvictorg 09-26-2010 06:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonaldoCombs View Post

This could be a big deal, I'm looking forward to auditioning, we may have a new value leader!

Here's a link with the Andrew Jones video: Speaker Snobs Sob

Ron

There's also this from Pioneer

http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/24/p...-the-well-hee/

Pioneer is introducing a new batch of Elite A/V receivers aimed at making the line more affordable (if less, well, elite). The VSX-30 and VSX-31 feature iPhone and iPod control via Pioneer's iControl AV app, HDMI 1.4a with 3D support, THX Select2 Plus audio, and an Ethernet port for accessing Sirius XM, Rhapsody, and files off of your home network. If that weren't enough, they've even thrown in an composite video cable for your iPod / iPhone so you can enjoy your portable audio and video on the big screen. The VSX-30 will run you $550, while the VSX-31 (with a second A/V zone) is going for a cool $650. It's not exactly a Swarovski-bejewled HTPC, but we guess it'll do in a pinch.

zieglj01 10-01-2010 05:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonaldoCombs View Post

This could be a big deal, I'm looking forward to auditioning, we may have a new value leader!

Here's a link with the Andrew Jones video: Speaker Snobs Sob

Ron

I was in Best Buy this afternoon to pick up the Iron Man 2 on
Blu-ray and I picked up a pair of the 4" two way. I am listening
to them now. As of now the Best Buy Insignia Speakers with
their 6" Coaxial design can't compete (about same price). I have
to listen some more to see how I would rate them with speakers
twice the price. They are built stronger than the Insignia, and
pass the knock test better than the Polk Monitor 30's (take it
easy on me).

cschang 10-01-2010 05:26 PM

Andrew Jones engineering these is a big deal. The TAD Reference One and Pioneer EX series are excellent examples of his work.

Would love to hear these low cost offerings.

m-heat 10-01-2010 05:36 PM

I work for said best buy and got to listen to them at their unveiling in Orlando. The towers sound great and IMO they are going to be a game changer.

Mr. Jones personally introduced the product line and explained how before his challenge was to make a near perfect speaker with price not being an object. His challenge here was to design a speaker that sounded good enough for him to put his name on it but still make it affordable to the general public. And yes is a snob about good music and it shows in his product.

They are big black curved boxes and that will turn your general Bose/htib customer off but for people who want clean sound at a fair or even cheap price these speakers do deliver.

There is only a little ambiguity in the midrange but for $200 I'd say you're getting more then you paid for.

zieglj01 10-01-2010 06:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by m-heat View Post

I work for said best buy and got to listen to them at their unveiling in Orlando. The towers sound great and IMO they are going to be a game changer.

Mr. Jones personally introduced the product line and explained how before his challenge was to make a near perfect speaker with price not being an object. His challenge here was to design a speaker that sounded good enough for him to put his name on it but still make it affordable to the general public. And yes is a snob about good music and it shows in his product.

They are big black curved boxes and that will turn your general Bose/htib customer off but for people who want clean sound at a fair or even cheap price these speakers do deliver.

There is only a little ambiguity in the midrange but for $200 I'd say you're getting more then you paid for.

So far the sound is clean and does draw you in - midrange will not
blow you away. No sense of ear fatigue - Nora Jones sounds good.
The sound is above its price point. I am only in the early stages -
however, I don't think I will have a problem reccomending these for
a starter system.

YOTR 10-01-2010 06:52 PM

I listened to the towers tonight at BB. I was pretty shocked at how good they sounded for the price point. I am not crazy about the looks but I admit they would be kid friendly with the metal grills . Build quality as a whole seemed pretty good. Each speaker had some weight to it. BB isn't the best place to test a speaker but they sounded better than the entry level polk towers that cost quite a bit more for a pair. I definitely got the feeling that you were getting quite a bit more speaker than the $200 pioneer is asking for them. I almost got the towers seeing as I am a Kuro fanboy . I still might as I have some BB reward zone coupons to use up. Honestly I figured they would have sounded mediocre at best so it was a huge surprise to me.

I also tested out the bookshelfs and the center channel in this line and was impressed. You could make a heck of a budget system and still have really good sound. I will say, I have never seen or heard a speaker sound this good at this price point. Bravo Pioneer!

Kal Rubinson 10-01-2010 06:53 PM

I was quite impressed with the BS41: http://www.stereophile.com/news/the_...ia_show_day_1/

zieglj01 10-01-2010 07:10 PM

What is getting me is the quality of bass - and it is tight and does not have
the one note sound. The Holly Cole Trio sounds good - her voice sounds
rough on a lot of speakers. She comes across good and sounded pleasant
on this speaker. They chose sound quality over looks. The 4" woofer sounds
like a 5" woofer. The bass sounds like it is hitting 75 hz with no problem.
They do not match the $500 or $800 bookshelf/stand mount speakers that
I have - however, their sound is way above their suggested price point. I
have to listen some more - however, they will not take a back seat to the
PSB Alpha or Paradigm Atom, which I have owned.

YOTR 10-01-2010 08:58 PM

I would really like to hear the BS41's but BB only carries the smaller bookshelf (which I was very impressed with also). I have a pair of Energy RC-30's and while they do sound better than the Pioneer's, they are also double the cost (even more than that before the recent clearance prices). Plus I would really need to do an A and B comparison to see how the Pioneer's hold up. I still can't believe this quality of sound is coming out of $200 towers, lol. Pretty amazing when you think about it.

zieglj01 10-01-2010 09:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by YOTR View Post

I would really like to hear the BS41's but BB only carries the smaller bookshelf (which I was very impressed with also). I have a pair of Energy RC-30's and while they do sound better than the Pioneer's, they are also double the cost (even more than that before the recent clearance prices). Plus I would really need to do an A and B comparison to see how the Pioneer's hold up. I still can't believe this quality of sound is coming out of $200 towers, lol. Pretty amazing when you think about it.

I don't know the secret to what they did to them - However, Pioneer
has something in mind. I was not expecting this type of sound for the
price point. You have to listen for a while - they are different and are
not voiced to jump out at you.

YOTR 10-02-2010 08:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

I don't know the secret to what they did to them - However, Pioneer
has something in mind. I was not expecting this type of sound for the
price point. You have to listen for a while - they are different and are
not voiced to jump out at you.



I definitely would like to hear your impressions over the next few days/weeks. Let me know how they compare to what you have now. I would really like to hear the larger bookshelf's but it looks like you can only purchase those directly from pioneer. I am tempted on the towers though .

palehorse 10-02-2010 08:29 AM

How does the 9 series sound compared to the Polk M70/CS2 combo? Has anyone tried both?

alphaiii 10-02-2010 08:51 AM

On a side note... did anyone else notice the differences between the picture on the hometheatermag blog and the one in the engadget article? If not, look again and pay attention to the size of the towers, center, and small bookshelf relative to the SP-BS41-LR...

The centers, towers, and bookshelves in the htmag blog actually look to be the S31 series speakers that are not sold in the US, but are available in the UK (not sure where else).

In any case, I would speculate that a part of the reason Pioneer could keep the cost of these speakers so low is that they already had a cabinet design to work with (from the S71 and S31 lines available in the UK).... just adjusted dimensions to work with the drivers that were selected.

Scroll down to see the S31 and S71 product lines...
http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/products.../overview.html

Stereodude 10-02-2010 09:00 AM

So from $60k speakers to $200 speakers? Oh, I'm sure the pedigree is still there.

I've heard the $60k ones. They are insanely good.

Smells like a marketing double speak to me. I can't imagine Andrew Jones really wants his name on a $200 pair of speakers.

zieglj01 10-02-2010 09:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by YOTR View Post

I definitely would like to hear your impressions over the next few days/weeks. Let me know how they compare to what you have now. I would really like to hear the larger bookshelf's but it looks like you can only purchase those directly from pioneer. I am tempted on the towers though .

I will not talk about my more expensive speakers yet. I am still in
the early stages of listening. With all due respect to other name
brands and owners - I prefer this 4" two way speaker over 5" -
2 ways, like the Primus, Atom, Alpha, Monitor 30, RTI4, the ELT
Luscious, klipsch B series & VB series and Boston entry level. Yes,
I have owned them. I believe these were made to compete with
the popular mass market speakers and take it to the next level.

They have passed the torture test on the movie Knowing - with
the famous airplane and train crash. The woofer did not burp.
Some cheap receivers may have a problem with the low sensitivity.

The final choice of what one buys, is their choice. I am too old for
a audio/video ping pong tournament.

Kal Rubinson 10-02-2010 09:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

I can't imagine Andrew Jones really wants his name on a $200 pair of speakers.

You might feel differently if you heard the enthusiasm in his voice when he spoke of them. Besides, his signature is on every box!

Seriously, one can understand the size of the challenge that such a cost constraint represents and the pride someone might feel at achieving success, especially if it is a challenge different from one without that constraint.

zieglj01 10-02-2010 09:13 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

So from $60k speakers to $200 speakers? Oh, I'm sure the pedigree is still there.

I've heard the $60k ones. They are insanely good.

Smells like a marketing double speak to me. I can't imagine Andrew Jones really wants his name on a $200 pair of speakers.

His name is on the back of the speakers. I tend to get him mixed
up with Phil Jones from time to time.

YOTR 10-02-2010 09:39 AM

I wonder why the bs41 bookshelf's are the same price per pair as the towers? It makes the towers seem like a bargain with the two extra woofers.

zieglj01 10-02-2010 10:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by YOTR View Post

I wonder why the bs41 bookshelf's are the same price per pair as the towers? It makes the towers seem like a bargain with the two extra woofers.

That is a good question for Pioneer to answer - It will come down
to space. Bass is not a weak link with the speakers. As you move
up, the bass should extend more.

cvictorg 10-02-2010 10:19 AM

They say this on their website

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...P-FS51-LR.Kuro

Much of the competition uses an extremely simple, low-cost cross-over made up of a single capacitor and inductor. The Pioneer SP-FS51-LR utilizes a sophisticated 6 component high-quality cross-over. The reasoning is simple: it's yet one more way of insuring high-quality, accurate sound that makes its presence known.

I have the same question - why are the floorstanders the same price as the bookshelf speakers?

Also - why are the more expensive bookshelf speakers - the SP-BS41-LR - only sold online and not thru BB as well as the other models?

zieglj01 10-02-2010 11:06 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cvictorg View Post

They say this on their website

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...P-FS51-LR.Kuro

Much of the competition uses an extremely simple, low-cost cross-over made up of a single capacitor and inductor. The Pioneer SP-FS51-LR utilizes a sophisticated 6 component high-quality cross-over. The reasoning is simple: it’s yet one more way of insuring high-quality, accurate sound that makes its presence known.

The crossover is one thing - However, it is more than that. I tried
to pull the back terminal plate - it will not pull out. It must be the
way the crossover is laid out. I am not ready yet to try and pull the
grill off the woofer - so I can look inside. The crossover is a big part,
and it is voiced well. The cabinet plays a part and the drivers must
mate well - as well as other things.
Male and female voices sound good on this speaker. It is not hollow
sounding - no cupped hands sound. It is not spitty or shouty. The
port noise on the rear is low and not as annoying as on some speakers.

cvictorg 10-02-2010 11:25 AM

Can nayone explain this

http://blog.hometheatermag.com/cedia2010/092310pioneer/

The slim tower at far right is the Series 9, whose drivers were designed specifically for the enclosure. A vertical tube feeding out the bottom sucks away standing waves.

m-heat 10-02-2010 01:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

So from $60k speakers to $200 speakers? Oh, I'm sure the pedigree is still there.

I've heard the $60k ones. They are insanely good.

Smells like a marketing double speak to me. I can't imagine Andrew Jones really wants his name on a $200 pair of speakers.

I think your wrong. I I'm not about to say they will sound as good as high end B&W or deftech but flip over to the DIY section. People are building amazing sounding speakers for a fraction of retail price.

For an artist of speaker design the challenge is the type of thing is intellectually stimulating and he told us that it was a fun and difficult challenge. He spoke with pride about what he had created.

zieglj01 10-02-2010 02:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by m-heat View Post

I think your wrong. I I'm not about to say they will sound as good as high end B&W or deftech but flip over to the DIY section. People are building amazing sounding speakers for a fraction of retail price.

For an artist of speaker design the challenge is the type of thing is intellectually stimulating and he told us that it was a fun and difficult challenge. He spoke with pride about what he had created.

The small bookshelf can not keep up with a $500 speaker - however,
it is above the average mass market, entry level sound. Based on a lot
of restricted budgets - this is a good beginning for music & home theater
sound. I would choose a different subwoofer - however, if you use the
bookshelf for surround and get the towers and center, for less than
$400, you have a good (for the price) 5.0 system. All you will need is a
strong subwoofer.

Kal Rubinson 10-02-2010 04:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cvictorg View Post

Also - why are the more expensive bookshelf speakers - the SP-BS41-LR - only sold online and not thru BB as well as the other models?

I was told that after the designs were finalized, BB opted not to take the BS41 which would have, in their considerations, competed with an unnamed but similarly-configured and similarly-priced product that they already have. I do not know what that one is.

Kal Rubinson 10-02-2010 04:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cvictorg View Post

A vertical tube feeding out the bottom sucks away standing waves.

Remarkable.

palehorse 10-02-2010 06:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cvictorg View Post

A vertical tube feeding out the bottom sucks away standing waves.

Ummm... What?!

cvictorg 10-02-2010 07:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by palehorse View Post

Ummm... What?!

That's what I said

http://blog.hometheatermag.com/cedia2010/092310pioneer/

Pioneer's Speaker Genius Hits Low Price Point
Posted Thu Sep 23, 2010, 5:58 PM ET
By Mark Fleischmann



Andrew Jones of TAD has been designing hugely underrated speakers for Pioneer for years. Until now his bleeding-edge designs have been high-priced. But the SP-BS41-LR hits a new low price point of $199/pair in hopes of moving units through big-box retailers. The curved cabinet is cooked and formed, in lieu of the more conventional cut and fold process. Center and surround models are available to form a 5.1 system that will go for under $1000. The slim tower at far right is the Series 9, whose drivers were designed specifically for the enclosure. A vertical tube feeding out the bottom sucks away standing waves.

What the hell is that??


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