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post #1 of 43 Old 10-21-2010, 09:54 PM - Thread Starter
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I am upgrading from a Panny SC-PT760 HTIB. My room is just a bit over 11X17, with an 8 foot high ceiling. Below are a couple layouts we might use. I apologize for the primitive graphics.

I will be using it for some movie watching (more DVD than Blu-Ray), TV (Dishnetwork HD) and some listening to music off iPods, CD's and FM. My TV will be most likely a 46" Sony or LG. (We are going through a major upgrade on our home theater).





At the left side and the bottom left, there are windows. On the right side on the top is the doorway to a hall and on the bottom right is about a 3X5 foyer leading to the front door.

Speaker set ups I have been considering include:
the Jamo S406 http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...06-hcs-1-black

With one of the following subs: Dayton Sub-120, BIC V1020 or a BIC V1220.
http://www.parts-express.com/wizards...AT&srchCat=620
Another idea I was considering was the Klipsch Quintet with one of the above subs.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...432&CatId=4596

I have also considered the Energy Take 5.1 or The Klipsch HD 500.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...theatersystems

I will probably be partnering them with an Onkyo 308 or 508, Denon 391 or a lower end Yamaha or Pioneer.

There seems to be a lot of positive vibes here for the Jamo and the Energy. As for the Klipsch, some years ago I had a KV-2 center channel with some DCM's front and rear and I enjoyed that, so I am open to Klipsch products. However, my wife plays bass in a symphony orchestra, so she may have a different view on Klipsch products.

Any input would be appreciated. I guess I am leaning mostly toward the Jamo with a sub, followed by the Energy, the HD 500 and the Quintet with a sub, in that order. I do realize that any of these systems would be a good step up for me so I am really trying to find the best system that fits my budget.

As I said, I would greatly appreciate any help here.

Thanks so much.
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post #2 of 43 Old 10-21-2010, 10:34 PM
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If you can squeeze some more - I would go to www.ac4l.com and
look at the KEF kht2005.3 system. Your wife may even like it.
If not - then go to Best Buy and look at the Pioneer B21 speakers and
the center channel. Then go to emotiva.com and look at the Ultra 10
subwoofer. Four of the B21 and the center with the Ultra 10 - should
turn out to be a good system.
If not - then go with the Energy system. The Jamo towers may be a
bit too much for your room, and I am concerned about the build quality.

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Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #3 of 43 Old 10-22-2010, 07:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

If you can squeeze some more - I would go to www.ac4l.com and
look at the KEF kht2005.3 system. Your wife may even like it.
If not - then go to Best Buy and look at the Pioneer B21 speakers and
the center channel. Then go to emotiva.com and look at the Ultra 10
subwoofer. Four of the B21 and the center with the Ultra 10 - should
turn out to be a good system.
If not - then go with the Energy system. The Jamo towers may be a
bit too much for your room, and I am concerned about the build quality.

Thanks for the input, I really appreciate it.

The KEF system looks good but it is a bit over our budget.

I will head out to Best Buy though and check out the Pioneers, those seem worthy of checking out. The price is within my budget and people have been saying good things about the new Pioneer speakers.

I am a bit confused by your subwoofer recommendation though. You say the Jamo towers might be a bit much for my room, but it seems like the sub you recommended is more potent than what comes with the Energy system or any of the subs I mentioned.

Do you care to elaborate?

Once again, thanks for the ideas, I will be heading to BB to check out the Pioneer speakers.
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post #4 of 43 Old 10-22-2010, 07:57 AM
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You can use the towers if you want - when you turn the volume down
on the towers - you will also turn down the midrange and treble. With
the subwoofer, you will control the volume of the bass. To me, I like
a subwoofer that will go as low as possible - even if I have to turn it
down. With the Jamo towers - I am some what concerned about the
sound bouncing and reflecting off the walls in your room. And yes, I know
that room treatments can help. The decision is yours and enjoy the search.

__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #5 of 43 Old 10-22-2010, 08:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

You can use the towers if you want - when you turn the volume down
on the towers - you will also turn down the midrange and treble. With
the subwoofer, you will control the volume of the bass. To me, I like
a subwoofer that will go as low as possible - even if I have to turn it
down. With the Jamo towers - I am some what concerned about the
sound bouncing and reflecting off the walls in your room. And yes, I know
that room treatments can help. The decision is yours and enjoy the search.

Trust me, I don't want you to agree with me. I was just surprised by saying the towers were too much but I needed more sub.

If I understand your comments correctly, you feel bookshelf front and rears would be a better fit for my sized and shaped room than towers?

I am just trying to understand the reason. I am an analytical chemist by training, so the reason behind answers are important to me.

Plus, I do really want something that will work in this room and will serve me for a while.

Thanks again.
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post #6 of 43 Old 10-22-2010, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladerunner6 View Post

Trust me, I don't want you to agree with me. I was just surprised by saying the towers were too much but I needed more sub.

If I understand your comments correctly, you feel bookshelf front and rears would be a better fit for my sized and shaped room than towers?

I am just trying to understand the reason. I am an analytical chemist by training, so the reason behind answers are important to me.

Plus, I do really want something that will work in this room and will serve me for a while.

Thanks again.

I listen in a small room near your size - and I can not handle the towers.
The bookshelf works better. Two 6 1/2" woofers are a bit much for me.
They should work better in a 17x17 room. They need space to radiate
properly. You are moving into a new world from your Panasonic system.
You do not want the sound to bounce and reflect off the wall and distort
the image and quality of the sounds coming from the speakers. When
your wife plays in a symphony - she is in an enviorment friendly room
where you can pick up the detail, definition and depth of the music.
I also think that you would need a better center - than the one with
the Jamo system.

__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #7 of 43 Old 10-22-2010, 09:08 AM
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The thing to keep in mind with both the Quintets and the Take Classic is that they are both mini/micro speakers and need to crossover to the subwoofer at roughly 120-150hz. The problem with that is that with the crossover set that high you'll be hearing the source moving back and between the speakers and the subwoofer. Sort of the sonic equivalent of watching a ping-pong match.

The second thing that concerns me the idea of sticking a floor standing tower in a tight corner. Most but not all towers are rear ported. Since I can't spot the bass port in the photo of the Jamo I suspect that it's rear or bottom ported and if so you'll want to leave 18-24" behind the speakers and a good 2+ feet of clearance between the speaker and the nearest side wall. That gives that bass port room to work. Towers can be a good choice but choose carefully for tight spaces. Front ported towers like Infinity's Primus 252 or Polk's Monitor 60 or 70 should work well but I get the impression that those are over your budget.

Perhaps 3 Infinity Primus P162 bookshelves across the front (or better yet 2x P162 and 1x PC250 center) and the best subwoofer that you can afford. You can always go back and add the surrounds later. For surrounds I'd either use Infinity P152 or Wharfedale WH-2. The key here is that all are front ported or sealed making placement super easy and all play deep enough to crossover to the sub at a very acceptable 80hz.
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post #8 of 43 Old 10-22-2010, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sholling View Post

The thing to keep in mind with both the Quintets and the Take Classic is that they are both mini/micro speakers and need to crossover to the subwoofer at roughly 120-150hz. The problem with that is that with the crossover set that high you'll be hearing the source moving back and between the speakers and the subwoofer.

And hearing deep male voices coming from the subwoofer.

__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #9 of 43 Old 10-22-2010, 10:33 AM
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Skip the Dayton Subwoofer, my brother was soo disppointed with the sub, he gave it away free.
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post #10 of 43 Old 10-22-2010, 06:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sholling View Post

The thing to keep in mind with both the Quintets and the Take Classic is that they are both mini/micro speakers and need to crossover to the subwoofer at roughly 120-150hz. The problem with that is that with the crossover set that high you'll be hearing the source moving back and between the speakers and the subwoofer. Sort of the sonic equivalent of watching a ping-pong match.

The second thing that concerns me the idea of sticking a floor standing tower in a tight corner. Most but not all towers are rear ported. Since I can't spot the bass port in the photo of the Jamo I suspect that it's rear or bottom ported and if so you'll want to leave 18-24" behind the speakers and a good 2+ feet of clearance between the speaker and the nearest side wall. That gives that bass port room to work. Towers can be a good choice but choose carefully for tight spaces. Front ported towers like Infinity's Primus 252 or Polk's Monitor 60 or 70 should work well but I get the impression that those are over your budget.

Perhaps 3 Infinity Primus P162 bookshelves across the front (or better yet 2x P162 and 1x PC250 center) and the best subwoofer that you can afford. You can always go back and add the surrounds later. For surrounds I'd either use Infinity P152 or Wharfedale WH-2. The key here is that all are front ported or sealed making placement super easy and all play deep enough to crossover to the sub at a very acceptable 80hz.

Okay, so the issue with towers is keeping them spaced properly. I can understand that.

I also understand what you are saying about having the subwoofer cross over at 80 hz.

While you specify the Infinity, my take is, and correct me if I am wrong, is that I should get some good bookshelf speakers that go down to 80hz and get a decent sub.

If that is the case, do you think either one of the BIC subs I mentioned would work for my room?

And thanks for all the input and guidance.
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post #11 of 43 Old 10-22-2010, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladerunner6 View Post

While you specify the Infinity, my take is, and correct me if I am wrong, is that I should get some good bookshelf speakers that go down to 80hz and get a decent sub.

Correct. Just keep in mind that rear ported bookshelves have similar space needs to a rear ported tower. In other words they should to be on stands well away from the wall rather than placed on an actual bookshelf. I suggested the Infinity P162 because they are front ported making placement simple and they play effortlessly down below 80hz. There are other valid choices but I've heard these and the price is right so I suggested them. The down side of the P162 is it's huge.

Quote:


If that is the case, do you think either one of the BIC subs I mentioned would work for my room?

I'll leave that question to those that have spent time with those BICs.
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post #12 of 43 Old 10-22-2010, 07:34 PM
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Due to the size of your room - a 10" subwoofer that can handle over
150 watts rms, should be fine. I will let other people comment on Bic.

__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #13 of 43 Old 10-23-2010, 03:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

If you can squeeze some more - I would go to www.ac4l.com and
look at the KEF kht2005.3 system. Your wife may even like it.
If not - then go to Best Buy and look at the Pioneer B21 speakers and
the center channel. Then go to emotiva.com and look at the Ultra 10
subwoofer. Four of the B21 and the center with the Ultra 10 - should
turn out to be a good system.
If not - then go with the Energy system. The Jamo towers may be a
bit too much for your room, and I am concerned about the build quality.

I am still planning on auditioning the B21's, it makes a lot of sense to listen to them.

But I am concerned about some of the comments about build quality. A one year warranty is not inspiring also. True, I will buy them with a CC that extend the warranty a year, but I don't want to be taking these into the shop or throwing them out. I have had enough of disposable electronics.

But as I said, I will check them out in person.
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post #14 of 43 Old 10-23-2010, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladerunner6 View Post

I am still planning on auditioning the B21's, it makes a lot of sense to listen to them.

But I am concerned about some of the comments about build quality. A one year warranty is not inspiring also. True, I will buy them with a CC that extend the warranty a year, but I don't want to be taking these into the shop or throwing them out. I have had enough of disposable electronics.

But as I said, I will check them out in person.

Their build quality is good. I have opened them up and checked
them out. The 1 year warranty helps to keep the cost down. Try
to listen to them - however, Best Buy is a poor place for auditions.
You can only get a hint of what they sound like in the store. That
is why a 30 day return policy is nice. I respect the fact that you
are on a budget. They are an ear and eye opener, compared to the
Panasonic system. They are voiced to sound balanced. They will not
jump out at you like the Klipsch and Polk speakers. I have owned
many speakers and these, for the price are above average.

__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #15 of 43 Old 10-24-2010, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sholling View Post

Correct. Just keep in mind that rear ported bookshelves have similar space needs to a rear ported tower. In other words they should to be on stands well away from the wall rather than placed on an actual bookshelf. I suggested the Infinity P162 because they are front ported making placement simple and they play effortlessly down below 80hz. There are other valid choices but I've heard these and the price is right so I suggested them. The down side of the P162 is it's huge.


I'll leave that question to those that have spent time with those BICs.

I am trying to stay within a certain budget but for $20 more for the pair, would using the P162 instead of the P152 make sense?

Also, does anybody have an opinion on this Infinity sub?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...light=tss+4000

Once again, all this input has been extremely helpful.

I have learned a lot.

Thanks.

I still have to go to Best Buy this week to check out the Pioneers though.
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post #16 of 43 Old 10-24-2010, 12:52 PM
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Canton! I love mine.

www.cantonusa.com

Panasonic P60ST50-Yamaha RX-V467 receiver-Sony PS3-Velodyne SMS-1-Canton 430 mains, 455 center and 402 surrounds-Rythmik FV15HP subwoofer- Pro-ject Debut III turntable- I also have a pair of Mark K's DIY design, the ER18DXT's
.
My humble entertainment room
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1417652/midwest...
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post #17 of 43 Old 10-24-2010, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Canton! I love mine.

www.cantonusa.com

Out of my price range.

Thanks for the enthusiasm though.
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post #18 of 43 Old 10-24-2010, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladerunner6 View Post

I am trying to stay within a certain budget but for $20 more for the pair, would using the P162 instead of the P152 make sense?

I like the P162 for fronts because crossing over at 80hz it still has plenty of deep bass capability below that point to blend really well with a subwoofer. A crossover isn't an instant A to B cut-over point. It's a slope. The crossover will start sending a little bit of energy to the sub well above the crossover setting and continue sending a decreasing about to the speaker well below the crossover point. That makes for a nice smooth transition from speaker to sub and back. But either speaker should work fine. I've heard the P162 but I haven't heard the P152. I'd try and find a set and listen and see what you think. Speakers are really subjective.

BTW have you been checking the used market in your area?
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post #19 of 43 Old 10-25-2010, 05:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sholling View Post

I like the P162 for fronts because crossing over at 80hz it still has plenty of deep bass capability below that point to blend really well with a subwoofer. A crossover isn't an instant A to B cut-over point. It's a slope. The crossover will start sending a little bit of energy to the sub well above the crossover setting and continue sending a decreasing about to the speaker well below the crossover point. That makes for a nice smooth transition from speaker to sub and back. But either speaker should work fine. I've heard the P162 but I haven't heard the P152. I'd try and find a set and listen and see what you think. Speakers are really subjective.

BTW have you been checking the used market in your area?

Yes, but I have seen nothing compelling.
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post #20 of 43 Old 10-25-2010, 10:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sholling View Post

I like the P162 for fronts because crossing over at 80hz it still has plenty of deep bass capability below that point to blend really well with a subwoofer. A crossover isn't an instant A to B cut-over point. It's a slope. The crossover will start sending a little bit of energy to the sub well above the crossover setting and continue sending a decreasing about to the speaker well below the crossover point. That makes for a nice smooth transition from speaker to sub and back. But either speaker should work fine. I've heard the P162 but I haven't heard the P152. I'd try and find a set and listen and see what you think. Speakers are really subjective.

BTW have you been checking the used market in your area?

Is the PC350 worth the upgrade?
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post #21 of 43 Old 10-25-2010, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladerunner6 View Post

Is the PC350 worth the upgrade?

Hard to say. The PC350 is a three-way center intended for use with the P362 three-way tower. The two-way PC250 was intended for use with the two-way P252 tower and the P162 bookshelf. But I've only listened in stores and haven't lived with them.

I'd keep watching the used market here, and on Craigs List, and eBay right up until you're ready to pull the trigger. In this economy some jewels pop up once in a while.
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post #22 of 43 Old 10-27-2010, 08:08 PM - Thread Starter
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The system I am ordering:

Two pairs of the P162's (one is already ordered, will have my wife order the other pair so she can use a discount code)

PC250 center (to be ordered and shipped to my mom to use a discount code)

BIC V1220 sub (ordered)

Pioneer VSX-920-K receiver-waiting until the last day of the Newegg sale to see if someone else comes up with a better deal.

I was hoping to stay under $800 for everything, including a Blu-Ray player, but that was just not quite in the cards, so I am holding off on a Blu-Ray until one comes up on a screamer deal over the Christmas shopping season.

After cash back from the credit cards and shopping sites, the total bill is about $850, so I am pretty close to budget and pleased with what I am getting.

I am confident it should perform decently in my room.

I would like to thank everyone for their help. With what the people in this thread suggested and from reading other threads, I was able to make a frugal but reasonably quality oriented decision.

I think I am going to be happy with this for quite a while.
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post #23 of 43 Old 10-27-2010, 08:11 PM
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Nice way to shop!

__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #24 of 43 Old 10-28-2010, 08:35 AM
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I know I'm getting to be very predictable, but, a complete SVS system with the SBS-02 bookshelf speakers and one of their superb subs will give you major bang for the buck. Arguably more so than anything mentioned thus far. Incredibly good sounding speakers. That said, all of the speakers mentioned above are top notch and you won't go wrong with any of them for your application.


Tom
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post #25 of 43 Old 10-28-2010, 09:45 AM
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Another option I would look at are the very fine PSB speakers, especially the Image T series.

I am using the Image T6 speakers in my #2 system now, and they are nearly as good (for $1200) as my $4000 Vandersteen Model 3A speakers in my big ($30,000) system.

The Image T series are truly excellent speakers, and top value too; hard to beat at the price. Audio Advisor has them if you want to check prices.
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post #26 of 43 Old 10-28-2010, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jumpnblues View Post

I know I'm getting to be very predictable, but, a complete SVS system with the SBS-02 bookshelf speakers and one of their superb subs will give you major bang for the buck. Arguably more so than anything mentioned thus far. Incredibly good sounding speakers. That said, all of the speakers mentioned above are top notch and you won't go wrong with any of them for your application.


Tom

$700 for the 5.0 system plus $500 for one of their subs plus $300 is $1500.

That is severely over my budget.
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post #27 of 43 Old 10-28-2010, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Another option I would look at are the very fine PSB speakers, especially the Image T series.

I am using the Image T6 speakers in my #2 system now, and they are nearly as good (for $1200) as my $4000 Vandersteen Model 3A speakers in my big ($30,000) system.

The Image T series are truly excellent speakers, and top value too; hard to beat at the price. Audio Advisor has them if you want to check prices.

I looked at Audio Advisor and the complete Image System is $2922. That is without a receiver, of course.

I said I was trying to stay under a budget and this is way beyond it. Plus, this seems like overkill for my sized room.
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post #28 of 43 Old 10-29-2010, 09:02 PM - Thread Starter
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My first set of the P162's came in today!
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post #29 of 43 Old 10-30-2010, 12:27 AM
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My first set of the P162's came in today!

Don't forget pictures!
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post #30 of 43 Old 10-30-2010, 03:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Don't forget pictures!

It might be a little while before we rearrange the house and get it all together, but it will happen.

I will get some photos up and try to describe it.

Thanks again everyone.
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