Totem Elements - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 12-16-2010, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Check it out

http://www.cepro.com/article/totems_...ment_speakers/
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post #2 of 21 Old 12-16-2010, 04:21 PM
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These look interesting...
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post #3 of 21 Old 12-16-2010, 05:41 PM
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Eeeew! My god, these aren't the prettiest things around...



What's the MSRP on them? Ah:

Quote:


Fire
Width: 8.81 inches; Height: 16.6 inches; Depth: 11.7 inches
Frequency Response: 40Hz to 22 kHz
Impedance: 8 ohms
Sensitivity: 88 dB
Recommended Power: 50W to 150 w
MSRP: $ 5995.00

Earth
Width: 11.7 inches; Height: 39.5 inches; Depth: 15.4 inches
Frequency Response: 31Hz to 22 kHz
Impedance: 8 ohms
Sensitivity: 88 dB
Recommended Power: 50W to 200 w
MSRP: $ 8995.00

Metal
Width: 11.7 inches; Height: 43.5 inches; Depth: 14.9 inches
Frequency Response: 30Hz to 22 kHz
Impedance: 4 ohms
Sensitivity: 91 dB
Recommended Power: 50W to 300 w
MSRP: $ 12 995.00

Not cheap!


Quote:


Each model features Totem’s 7-inch Torrent hand-assembled drivers as well as magnetic technology only found in Element series. The Element woofers are built in-house and have precision-machined chassis that are not molded or stamped. Each driver has 3 hours of machining time devoted to it and 4+ hours for assembly and testing.

What the hell is "magnetic technology?"

Quote:


The reason for the magnetic and construction is to make the Element series use "no active or passive crossover parts" in the woofer.

What?? "The magnetic"? And no crossover parts "in the woofer"??? Which speaker uses crossover parts in woofers? lol

Quote:


"It was five years of work," says Bruzzese, who said the design was inspired by the Hallbach Array, a special design in which magnetics are used to augment and cancel each other.

What the hell is this 'magnetic' which are used to cancel and augment each other?? lol

Quote:


The array is the basis for maglev high-speed train locomotion. "I call it the Totem array," says Bruzzese, adding that "the larger room the better" to handle the huge imaging produced by the Element loudspeakers.

So it uses electromagnets instead of a voicecoil to power woofers?? And it's powered by a regular amp? And it has no crossover? How the hell did they manage that? Or by "the magnetic" do they just mean a regular voice coil?

I'd love to see some measurements and more technical details on this...


Ah ok so here's the basics, actually, not even, there's the "inspiration": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halbach_array So they'll still use voice coils and no electromagnets (well, besides the voice coil itself...), it's just, I'm guessing, that the magnets are arranged in a Hallbach array, which I'm again guessing they hope will improve performance... Interesting theory/concept, wonder how well it'll work on voice coils... Actually, I don't see how they'd benefit from it... Isn't the whole point that when you reverse the current it actually reverses the magnetic field and then will go the opposite way? How will having 'dead zones' help? Anyone getting this?
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post #4 of 21 Old 12-16-2010, 06:54 PM
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^^^ lol ^^^

Russ
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post #5 of 21 Old 12-16-2010, 09:04 PM
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heh, I think the only relevant aspect of it simply lies on the bold part: "A Halbach array is a special arrangement of permanent magnets that augments the magnetic field on one side of the array while cancelling the field to near zero on the other side.". The whole Maglev and cancellation thing threw me off, most likely has NOTHING to do with maglev techology, I think it's just marketing spiel for: "we're using stronger magnets"... Which might not even be relevant in case of voice coils and the type/shape/orientation of magnets... And how is the cancellation supposed to help? Looks to me like it wouldn't... At all... Quite the contrary... If anyone has a better guess than mine, please be my guest... I doubt we'll see a clear explanation from Totem any time soon...

Anybody sees how Halbach could work in voice coil? Here's a representation of the magnetic field for a magnet of usual shape used in woofers:



The red rectangle would be voice coil, in this case moving left/right... How could Halbach work or apply in this config?? Maglev trains, sure... Voice coils... How?!
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post #6 of 21 Old 12-17-2010, 12:36 AM
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lol, the best, gandarf.

vince is crazy.
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post #7 of 21 Old 12-17-2010, 09:27 AM
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lol, he certainly has that crazy inventor look, slim, tall, and crazy hair!

Quote:


The Element loudspeakers include several technical innovations developed by Totem. First, each model features Totem's 7-inch Torrent hand-assembled drivers and an exclusive magnetic technology. The Element woofers, built in-house, have a precision-machined chassis that are not molded or stamped. Each driver has three hours of machining time devoted to it and four-plus hours for assembly and testing.

and http://www.dealerscope.com/article/t...ers-25012586/1
Quote:


All woofers in the Element series are built in-house with the precision of a watchmaker. In fact, states Bruzzese, “the 7 inch Torrent hand-assembled drivers cost the company $1,000 each to manufacture”

Doesn't that seem well odd to anybody else? What's wrong with stamped or cast frames? Stamped frames are usually made of flimsy, thin, crappy metals and are just designed to be cheap to make... But I'm sure that if you used thick metal, used a very strong press, you could have a stamped frames which would be absolutely killer! (and not cost 1000$ to make...)

And "not a cast frame"? Again, what's wrong with cast frames? Is it better to spend hours on a CNC machine to make 4 pieces which will later be bolted together??!?! And the most important aspect... It costs 1000$ to Totem per woofer to manufacture? That's absolutely insane...

There's a pic of a part of a woofer in the previous url:
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post #8 of 21 Old 12-17-2010, 09:58 AM
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Well if you already own power centers that can purify and enhance your electricity then you'll understand why they do all this to purify and enhance the magnetism. My god the break in period of these speakers will take decades for all the mechanical bonding to take place, since there's so much hand-crafted mechanical stuff in there. Interesting news I just read: the Maya shamans may have built their temples to amplify sound, like a huge speaker. They used no crossovers, and even no magnets!
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post #9 of 21 Old 12-17-2010, 12:24 PM
 
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ok so i have a def teck set up with the bp20s and came accros a trio of the klr 525's. i would like 2 know how u guys would compare the two? would the klipsh give me the sound stage and imaging that i get from the def tecks? also might consider a trio of older cornwalls or lascas. i would like to here ur thoughts?
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post #10 of 21 Old 12-18-2010, 07:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Grandarf, I knew I could count on you to disrespect anything Totem but yet Vince has built a multimillion dollar company, has sold thousands of speakers and you.....have not.
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post #11 of 21 Old 12-18-2010, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicagorep View Post

Grandarf, I knew I could count on you to disrespect anything Totem but yet Vince has built a multimillion dollar company, has sold thousands of speakers and you.....have not.

So? Peter Popoff has also built a multimillion dollar enterprise, is he more fit than I to comment on this new Totem Elements speakers? Or do you need to have sold thousands of speakers to be able to comment? Who here has done so?

If you wish to reply to my previous posts about Totem Elements, please be my guest... Even if you have not built a multimillion dollar company, you're welcome to it! This is a discussion forum after all and someone does not need to have sold thousands of speakers nor does he have to have built a multimillion dollar company to participate!

You are a Totem dealer, so why don't you dig in and provide some answers to the questions asked? Pretty much anyone can register and post here and many companies have representatives who do. Hell, you're a dealer and you post... How about getting info or someone from Totem and enlighten us all on their products if you can't? Maybe they can also solve some everlasting mysteries like what are those dots on the tweeters for exactly... I think we've heard twelve different possibilities about what those things might be for...
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post #12 of 21 Old 12-18-2010, 07:52 AM
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...popcorn in hand...
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post #13 of 21 Old 12-22-2010, 07:59 PM
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Posted about this in the DIY section. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1299361 Here's a summary from a poster there:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21
Here's a summary of the forum's collective opinion:

a) the claims of being revolutionary are bogus

b) the claims about the throw are probably wrong, because the suspension does not appear to have the spider clearance or surround roll to make 1" peak-peak throw.

c) the claimed cost to make the drive-unit is either BS or a sign of massive incompetence

d) the motor is probably some variant of the Aura NRT. (A very, very good thing, IMO)

e) the firm behind it is a known purveyor of odious snake oil, and

f) the claimed advantages of a pieced-together frame over a cast frame are silly.


All that said, some of us (present company certainly included) are of a mind that inefficient 7" 2-ways all kind of a priori suck, except for maybe nearfield use. Dynamic compression is the killer here.
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post #14 of 21 Old 12-23-2010, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandarf View Post

What the hell is "magnetic technology?"

All that and more is explained in this scientific treatise.


"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #15 of 21 Old 12-23-2010, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicagorep View Post

Grandarf, I knew I could count on you to disrespect anything Totem but yet Vince has built a multimillion dollar company, has sold thousands of speakers and you.....have not.

So based on this logic BOSE Is a better speaker company with better speakers.

Already posted in the DIY thread on that driver....one world silly audiophile BS. The guy couldnt invent anything real accept event some delusion for audiophiles to soak up.

Im sure they are still great sound audiophile speakers, not great HT speakers IMO though. HT is the only thing that matters to 99% of the population

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
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post #16 of 21 Old 12-05-2011, 05:11 PM
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Just ordered a pair of the new Element Earth. I'll fill you all in when they arrive.

Click here for pic of my 7.1 home theater system and here for pic of S2 surround wall mounting.

Click here for pic of my 2 channel system.

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post #17 of 21 Old 12-15-2011, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandarf View Post

heh, I think the only relevant aspect of it simply lies on the bold part: "A Halbach array is a special arrangement of permanent magnets that augments the magnetic field on one side of the array while cancelling the field to near zero on the other side.". The whole Maglev and cancellation thing threw me off, most likely has NOTHING to do with maglev techology, I think it's just marketing spiel for: "we're using stronger magnets"... Which might not even be relevant in case of voice coils and the type/shape/orientation of magnets... And how is the cancellation supposed to help? Looks to me like it wouldn't... At all... Quite the contrary... If anyone has a better guess than mine, please be my guest... I doubt we'll see a clear explanation from Totem any time soon...

Anybody sees how Halbach could work in voice coil? Here's a representation of the magnetic field for a magnet of usual shape used in woofers:



The red rectangle would be voice coil, in this case moving left/right... How could Halbach work or apply in this config?? Maglev trains, sure... Voice coils... How?!

I don't know a lot about speaker construction so just let me know quickly if i sound like an idiot here lol. Based on how the article is written, it seem they are "Claiming" to have the voice coil and driver assembly levitating on a maglev style field rather than having any mechanical parts holding it in place, the driver would then (xmax??) not sure if thats the right term. within that field away from any mechanical interaction. basically floating back and forth.
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post #18 of 21 Old 03-03-2012, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemark81 View Post

Just ordered a pair of the new Element Earth. I'll fill you all in when they arrive.

Do you have these speakers yet. I am anxious to see your review of these Earth's as they are on my short list.

Chucka
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post #19 of 21 Old 03-30-2012, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucka View Post

Do you have these speakers yet. I am anxious to see your review of these Earth's as they are on my short list.

Chucka

Chucka: No, I ended up canceling the order as I could not bare to purchase them without hearing them first. I still have not heard a pair and still considering my options. Also having a hard time parting with my existing speakers, but they don't meet the WAF. A possibility is refinishing them. Been discussing this possibility with the manufacturer. I am still interested in the Earth's though.

Click here for pic of my 7.1 home theater system and here for pic of S2 surround wall mounting.

Click here for pic of my 2 channel system.

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post #20 of 21 Old 08-22-2012, 01:12 PM
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Hi All, just happened on this forum looking for reviews, seemed a good one, interesting and informative so joined and I wanted to comment.

I auditioned the Totem Fires a about 2 months ago and was very impressed. I was looking for a smaller speaker (I have had many types over the years: Quads 69/Inner sound Isis/Revolver Cygnis..blah, blah, blah)and was looking for something good but smaller. Demoed them in my system for 2 weeks and bought them. They are costly for a standmount in the UK (where I am) at around £5500, but they are superb. I won't say anymore at the moment, if anybody wants a "proper" review then I would be happy to do that. Just as a background: I have been in this hobby for around 30 years and have had a lot of equipment over the years upgrading along the way. My background and profession is in science (Chemstry and Maths), so the technical stuff interests me. Enough for now, but a "Hello" to all of you. I was looking for reviews on the Fires after the purchase as I wanted to know if others thought they were as good.
Best
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post #21 of 21 Old 10-31-2013, 11:33 AM
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I've had a pair of Totem Fire monitors for over a year now and I must admit, I'm not itching to upgrade to something else.  I listen to just about all types of music (except country & rap) and find these speakers sound really natural to me.  They have really great sound stage, the highs are not overly bright, like so many other speakers on the market today and with my Velodyne sub woofer, make for exciting listening.

 

This is coming from someone who seems to constantly have "the itch" to upgrade his music audio system.

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