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post #1 of 21 Old 01-13-2011, 09:00 PM - Thread Starter
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1) $652 TOTAL PACKAGE
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-010-_-Product
These sounded OK to me at a local Bestbuy. $600 plus another $52 for the Ipod dock and I'm done.

2) $599 TOTAL PACKAGE
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...sch%20hd%20500
I heard these at a local PR Richard and they were a bit harsh, but very loud and actually sounded much better than I thought. The lower model HD 300 is garbage. Sounded terrible all around. This HD is a huge step up.

3) $751 TOTAL PACKAGE
http://www.amazon.com/Energy-Classic...pr_product_top
I would go for either of these Takes OR the RC-Micro's, which both can be had for $399 each. Add a nice Yamaha or Onkyo receiver from Newegg for about $300, worthy of doing the job and comparable to the other above receivers and an Ipod dock for about $52, that'll be total $751.

This is all going into my Living Room/Dining Room combo that is opened into each other and is 25' Long X 11' Wide X 8' High total. The actual Living Room and 5.1 system will be ONLY in the LR half of this entire space. Nevertheless, it will still be opened throughout. And another huge situation is that my sub HAS to be behind the wedge of my sectional in the MIDDLE of that 25' X 11" space! Can not put it up front due to space limitations. May have to upgrade my sub dow n the road. I can't spend anymore than this for now.

A simple system 1, 2 or 3 would suffice if you like!
ALL and any comments is much appreciated!
Thanks, Pete
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post #2 of 21 Old 01-13-2011, 09:48 PM
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Honestly none of the above. Those are meant for tiny rooms.

This won't be a perfect solution but will spank any of the above and with the addition of a better sub down the road will seriously kick butt!

2 Infinity P162 as mains
1 Infinity PC250 center
2 Infinity P152 as surrounds

Add a factory refurbished Onkyo TX-SR508

Here's the tricky party because I'm not an expert on < $200 subs. The one that seems most popular on here is the Bic F12. I won't endorse what I haven't heard so do your own research. Place this as close to the listening spot as possible, behind the sofa is perfect. And because you bought decent speakers like the Infinities you can set the receiver's crossover to 80hz which means that you won't hardly notice that the sub is behind you. That would not be true of the mini speakers in any of those packages.

Now the whole thing takes us about $100 over budget and if that's not doable then I'd wait on the surrounds until you have more money. What I would not do is blow $500 on a speaker/sub package that you won't be happy with.

Oh and save money on speaker wire and the subwoofer cable by shopping at monoprice.com

Oh and the dock.
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post #3 of 21 Old 01-13-2011, 10:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Great reply!

Well, I only thought of those sets because they seem the popular choice nowadays and seems to give you it all in one package, which I know is a no-no.

The Mirage OmniSats (largest of the Mirage satellites) was also a last minute option for the very same reason you have stated... They claim to go down to 70Hz, so my sub won't sound separated from the from the front stage as much. I agree, the other sets I have listed will just cut out at 150Hz, leaving the sub to cover that frequency range, hence making the system sound separated since I have no choice but to put the sub about 10 feet away from the front stage.

Very good point.

Do you think the OmniSats would be even an option? I have a BDI stand where my left, right and center need to go INSIDE of. No space for towers of anykind to the left or right of the TV stand. So, whatever I choose, would have to fit into the cabinet which is about 9" high and 45" wide. Reason why I want those OmniSats now, is I can get the set of 4 AND the center Channel for under $500, which would be a good deal. And it'll allow me to get a better sub too.

Yes, this would all cost more, but would it be worth it? I am researching your choices after I finish here and will use them heavily in my decision making.

Thanks you so much for your help, really helps!
Pete
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post #4 of 21 Old 01-13-2011, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteNYC View Post

I have a BDI stand where my left, right and center need to go INSIDE of.

Putting speakers inside a cabinet is like throwing a blanket over them. Maybe a soundbar might be a better choice?
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post #5 of 21 Old 01-13-2011, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteNYC View Post

Great reply!

Well, I only thought of those sets because they seem the popular choice nowadays and seems to give you it all in one package, which I know is a no-no.

The Mirage OmniSats (largest of the Mirage satellites) was also a last minute option for the very same reason you have stated... They claim to go down to 70Hz, so my sub won't sound separated from the from the front stage as much. I agree, the other sets I have listed will just cut out at 150Hz, leaving the sub to cover that frequency range, hence making the system sound separated since I have no choice but to put the sub about 10 feet away from the front stage.

Very good point.

Do you think the OmniSats would be even an option? I have a BDI stand where my left, right and center need to go INSIDE of. No space for towers of anykind to the left or right of the TV stand. So, whatever I choose, would have to fit into the cabinet which is about 9" high and 45" wide. Reason why I want those OmniSats now, is I can get the set of 4 AND the center Channel for under $500, which would be a good deal. And it'll allow me to get a better sub too.

Yes, this would all cost more, but would it be worth it? I am researching your choices after I finish here and will use them heavily in my decision making.

Thanks you so much for your help, really helps!
Pete

The Infinities are front ported so will work almost anywhere including hung on the walls but they are a lot taller than 9" and setting a speaker on its side isn't a great idea. Maybe stands? Or mount them on the face of the cabinet? Anyway here's a review that may help.

I have not heard the OmniSats but I did find a user review of the larger OMD-5. My concern with putting that type of speaker in a cabinet is that it would sound like a speaker in a box with reflections making a hash of the sound.
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post #6 of 21 Old 01-13-2011, 11:02 PM - Thread Starter
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scholling....
I have just researched and put your items in "my cart" on Crutchfield and it comes out to about $715, less the subwoofer. I added the receiver you mentioned which was on sale. I rather get a receiver with video upconversion now that I think of it, but that's not important right now. I may just up the ante here a bit to get a better system as you have suggested, because I know you will be right in the long run.

Say we get the a decent sub for around $300-$350, what would you recommend. I do not want a powered sub since we have the receiver supplying our power. Can you suggest 2 or 3? Maybe SVS (if even that cheap), another I Infinity to match, etc. I read the reviews so far and they are great.

I have been out of the game for SO long, had kids, crazy with work, yap yap, time flies, so I can't tell you how much I appreciate your help!

PS- Let's set the new budget at around $1200 max, including 2 stands for rears, subs, wiring, ipod dock, possible better receiver with upconversion and front HDMI, etc.

THANKS!!! I'll take pics of my system and give you props on here. Lol
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post #7 of 21 Old 01-13-2011, 11:04 PM - Thread Starter
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MandM...

http://www.bdiusa.com/theater/novia_8428.shtml


Thanks for your response!
Pete
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post #8 of 21 Old 01-13-2011, 11:08 PM - Thread Starter
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MandM,

I don't know if this is of any consulation, but that top horizontal door has a thin mesh cloth throughout the entire door. The cavities in which the speakers would sit are very sturdy and tight, plus there is large ventilation holes throughout the rear of that are so to limit the amount of boomyness it may cause.

I'm opened to suggestions, I know it stinks, but this is what I have to deal with.
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post #9 of 21 Old 01-13-2011, 11:12 PM - Thread Starter
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I may mount the 2 fronts above the Samsung 52" LCD just to the left and right. Your review link tells that they need to be mounted very high anyway, so may be beneficial in more ways one.

We're getting somewhere.
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post #10 of 21 Old 01-14-2011, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteNYC View Post

scholling....
I have just researched and put your items in "my cart" on Crutchfield and it comes out to about $715, less the subwoofer. I added the receiver you mentioned which was on sale. I rather get a receiver with video upconversion now that I think of it, but that's not important right now.

If your TV is fairly recent (2-3 years old) it will probably upconvert a whole lot better than a receiver. I have some fine receivers and I gave up on them for upconversion long ago. Let your TV or DVD/Blu-Ray/PS3 handle that. However if you want a better receiver that's doable. The larger Onkyos run a bit too warm to put inside of a cabinet with doors unless you have a fan. However last years TX-SR707 is a fine receiver but lacks 3D support, in between is the 608 and it supports 3D - Amazon has a good price, I have it's older brother in my office. I have an older 707 in an enclosed cabinet in my bedroom but I have 3" of free space over it and a heat activated fan in that cabinet.

If you're ready for a better sub and I think it's a great idea then I'd contact Hsu Research and have them quote a sub to fill your room. They are very honest and very nice and will not try to oversell you. I'm not a huge fan of their speakers but I love their subwoofers. Now stepping back a bit I see that you're in NYC. My guess is that you have downstairs neighbors and if so I would order an isolation pad to sit under the sub. It won't completely shield the neighbors but it helps a lot. Auralex makes 3 sizes SubDude/Gramma/Great-Gramma.
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post #11 of 21 Old 01-14-2011, 01:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteNYC View Post

I do not want a powered sub since we have the receiver supplying our power.

You will need a powered sub. Receivers just have a preamp output for subs.

Hsu, SVS, and Elemental Designs make good subs but SVS is moving up market and eD usually builds to order sometimes resulting in a delay of up to several weeks.
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post #12 of 21 Old 01-14-2011, 01:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Understood. I don't need to upconvert through my receiver then, not only since my TV is 2-3 years old (Samsung 52"), but I am using all HDMI's on all my components anyway. (HD Cable, PS3) Not going to use much else.

I have researched tonight and came up with these for my sub choices... http://www.amazon.com/BIC-America-F1.../dp/B0015A8Y5M
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-1.html
The BIC can be had for just $183!

Also, came across this receiver for now. Good power.
http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-VSX-82.../dp/B0039XQL2G
Not committed to any of these, just suggestions.

For Left, Right and Center, I am going to do further research on your Infinity's as well as my Mirage Omnisat's with it's dedicated Center Channel. They seem to get much appraise and I can get them dirt cheap slightly used. $450 for 4 satellites and the higher end Center Channel. I may just mount them above the TV, just to the left and right of the sides of the TV hanging on the wall. Cabinet idea is no longer an option. Plus, I've heard these 360 degree Omni technology and it is very pleasant to hear to my ear, but again, not committed just yet.
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post #13 of 21 Old 01-14-2011, 01:57 AM - Thread Starter
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My living room, dining room and kitchen is all one big OPEN "L". The bottom short line of the "L" would be the kitchen area, the the corner of that then moving forward towards the center of the "L" would be the dining room, and rest (top half of the "L") is the living room. A sectional divides the LR form the DR, so the actual LR is about 15' L by 11' W, all with 8' ceilings, but overall the "L" is 25 L by 11' W, then it all turns into that kitchen (bottom of "L")

Man, that was ridiculous... sorry for all the "L"s. Lol.

Also, we have all hard wood floors, with the exception of a large area rug right where our LR is where the 5.1 would be. Plenty of cloth blinds, pictures, area rug, etc in LR to deflect reflections. Front 3 speakers would be all the way on top of that "L" and projected towards the bottom of the "L" being the DR. The sub MUST be in the middle of the "L", separating the LR and DR, which stinks, since it is not in any kind of corner and would just be against a wall, hiding behind the wedge of my sectional.

So yeah, I told you all this just in case we need it to determine which sub to go with. And yes, I live in a 2 story co-op, but there are no neighbors living downstairs for 2 years or more. Long story, they keep it as a huge storage. Weird. So, I'll have to turn her down eventually in a couple of years or so.

Again, thank you so much for your attention and expertise!
Pete
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post #14 of 21 Old 01-14-2011, 02:45 AM
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I have seen the KEF C1 5.1 system recommended for such situations, as the satellites are larger (4" drivers) than those others listed above (they advertise down to 65Hz). They apparently sell for $850+ normally, but $400 right now on Amazon.

In fact, I will receive mine today to try for 30 days.

At $400, they are much less than the Infinities recommended above, although their normal price is higher (even after adding a sub to the Infinities). I am concerned about the sub that comes with the KEF 5.1 system, but I do not need anything too loud. (I just want music to sound *good* at reasonable/mid-high volume.)

So, based on relative pricing alone, I have no reason to think that the Infinity bookshelf system is better than the KEF C1 system. The Infinities are frequently recommended (so that should be a safe bet). I did not find much about the KEF C1's, but what I did see so far has been very positive.

Since I am not yet familiar with the sound of Infinity compared to KEF (in general), I wonder if there is a reason that the Infinities should be preferred...
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post #15 of 21 Old 01-14-2011, 03:01 AM
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A quick comparison of the advertised specs:

Infinity P162: Sensitivity 90dB, 6.5" driver, Frequency 49-20kHz, Size 8x15x11

KEF C1: Sensitivity 87dB, 4" driver, Frequency 65-40kHz, Size 9x10x6

Based on specs (and recommendations), the Infinity should be better, but are they worth the extra $300+ (adding ~$230 for the sub)?
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post #16 of 21 Old 01-14-2011, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteNYC View Post

My living room, dining room and kitchen is all one big OPEN "L". The bottom short line of the "L" would be the kitchen area, the the corner of that then moving forward towards the center of the "L" would be the dining room, and rest (top half of the "L") is the living room. A sectional divides the LR form the DR, so the actual LR is about 15' L by 11' W, all with 8' ceilings, but overall the "L" is 25 L by 11' W, then it all turns into that kitchen (bottom of "L")

I would contact Hsu and have them size a sub for your room and help with placement. They are super nice people and won't try to oversell you. You might also want to contact Elemental Designs. eD is a bit cheaper but they rarely have any inventory and there may be an wait. They both know their products better than I do.
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post #17 of 21 Old 01-14-2011, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by cbahns View Post

At $400, they are much less than the Infinities recommended above, although their normal price is higher (even after adding a sub to the Infinities). I am concerned about the sub that comes with the KEF 5.1 system, but I do not need anything too loud. (I just want music to sound *good* at reasonable/mid-high volume.)

At the risk of jacking this thread - the price of the Infinities that I linked reflect a clearance price. The P162/PC250/P152 are last year's models. Reportedly the new models (P163/PC251/P153) reflect strictly cosmetic changes and come with a price increase. I have not listened to the newer Infinities or the Kefs.

FYI subwoofers work differently than regular speakers. Regular speakers can be sized by bass response and distance from the listeners. A subwoofer needs to be sized to the total cubic footage of the room and any spaces open to that room. That's because it needs to move enough air minutely alter the pressure in room to fill the room with deep visceral bass. What you can do on a budget is get the sub super close to the listeners (near-field). If it's too small for the room (within reason) you'll have dead spots in much of the room but those sitting really close will still have a grin on their faces. Subwoofer placement is a bit of a black art.
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post #18 of 21 Old 01-14-2011, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
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I would contact Hsu and have them size a sub for your room and help with placement. They are super nice people and won't try to oversell you. You might also want to contact Elemental Designs. eD is a bit cheaper but they rarely have any inventory and there may be an wait. They both know their products better than I do.
Let me know what HSU has to say and recommend in this situation or should I just deal with them directly? Sounds like you have a buddy in there. Maybe I should just copy and paste my description (if that's even a good idea, lol) and see what they come up with. I won't make nay moves till then .

Thank you so much for your efforts. I really appreciate it!
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post #19 of 21 Old 01-14-2011, 11:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbahns View Post

A quick comparison of the advertised specs:

Infinity P162: Sensitivity 90dB, 6.5" driver, Frequency 49-20kHz, Size 8x15x11

KEF C1: Sensitivity 87dB, 4" driver, Frequency 65-40kHz, Size 9x10x6

Based on specs (and recommendations), the Infinity should be better, but are they worth the extra $300+ (adding ~$230 for the sub)?

Thanks for your input! I will research this set considering the incredible value it would hold. There are a lot of factors here to be determined, but I will use this bit of information to use towards that final decision.

Thanks,
Pete
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post #20 of 21 Old 01-14-2011, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteNYC View Post

Let me know what HSU has to say and recommend in this situation or should I just deal with them directly? Sounds like you have a buddy in there. Maybe I should just copy and paste my description (if that's even a good idea, lol) and see what they come up with. I won't make nay moves till then .

Thank you so much for your efforts. I really appreciate it!

It's best that you talk to them directly. I've been there for the unveiling of their latest subwoofer and I'm a customer but I don't know anybody there well enough to even recognize them on the street.
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post #21 of 21 Old 01-14-2011, 10:26 PM - Thread Starter
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It's best that you talk to them directly. I've been there for the unveiling of their latest subwoofer and I'm a customer but I don't know anybody there well enough to even recognize them on the street.

Very good. I will do just that.

Thank you for all your help... it is much appreciated!
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