Danley SH-50/SH-60 for dedicated Home Theater - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 725 Old 04-21-2011, 06:29 AM
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Mark, you have to get Omni Mic. It will help you measure the room and see what is actually happening. You have so much invested that to not have measurement capability is questionable. You also need some type of EQ.

You might be better with SMS-1 or something that is all inclusive.

Doesn't Jim P help you out once in a while?

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post #272 of 725 Old 04-21-2011, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Beaver View Post

...snip...

When you have a loudspeaker with a large horn (such as the Danley products), there is much less sound hitting the walls/ceiling. So the reflections you get off of those surfaces are greatly reduced in level (as compared to the direct sound), so the sound is more as the producer intended you to hear it. Much clearer.

When pigs fly.

...and if that's truly the case, what do you do about the people sitting next to the wall. If they're getting direct sound, how are they not getting any reflections off the side wall. While I'm at it, wouldn't the back wall reflect? How can you aim the speakers towards the audiance and not have it reflect off the wall directly behind them?

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post #273 of 725 Old 04-21-2011, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Your post is so far over the top and has enough inaccuracies that I have to be skeptical about these speakers. Why fabricate so much unless there is a reason to do so.

I would highly recommend that anyone who is serious about any speaker (applies to all speakers) to be sure that the ones you're considering is auditioned in a room that's reasonably similar to your home theater. Speakers auditioned in a warehouse (Danley's audition venue) will only be valid if your home theater happens to be a warehouse. A question you should be asking yourself is do the Danley's have to be played at the upper end of their volume level to sound good. Often times, drivers that have to be played loud to sound good don't perform well at lower levels. In a typical home theater when compared to a warehouse, you have a lot less space to fill with sound so you're not likely to be driving any speaker as loud.

As for some of the other inaccuracies of the post, the laws of physics do not change just because you're using a particular brand/model/design of speaker. The sense of spaciousness in home theater application is mostly created by surround speakers. Accoustical treatment is aimed at correcting undesirable room interaction. If you're into two channel audio with no interest in home theater, then the room accoustics would optimally be designed differently to provide a controlled environment more suited for two channel audio.

Be careful what you buy especially when there is no return policy.

Class over.

....may the flames begin.

I see nothing wrong with his post.
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post #274 of 725 Old 04-21-2011, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

When pigs fly.

...and if that's truly the case, what do you do about the people sitting next to the wall. If they're getting direct sound, how are they not getting any reflections off the side wall. While I'm at it, wouldn't the back wall reflect? How can you aim the speakers towards the audiance and not have it reflect off the wall directly behind them?

If you have controlled directivity the room interaction will be greatly reduced. Does it eliminate the need for room treatments? Of course not. But Tom Danley has created something special here. He has attacked the problem from a totally different angle and I think he deserves credit for for his solution.

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post #275 of 725 Old 04-21-2011, 08:23 AM
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^^^^

Very solid post Ivan

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post #276 of 725 Old 04-21-2011, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

If you have controlled directivity the room interaction will be greatly reduced. Does it eliminate the need for room treatments? Of course not. But Tom Danley has created something special here. He has attacked the problem from a totally different angle and I think he deserves credit for for his solution.


That's a pretty big "if". What you're proposing is that you can evenly cover a variable size home theater with sound dropping at the room boundaries to reduce reflections. How exactly do the speakers know that your home theater is 20 feet wide or 30 feet wide? It just knows????

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post #277 of 725 Old 04-21-2011, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

That's a pretty big "if". What you're proposing is that you can evenly cover a variable size home theater with sound dropping at the room boundaries to reduce reflections. How exactly do the speakers know that your home theater is 20 feet wide or 30 feet wide? It just knows????

It doesn't know what the size of your room is. All it knows is the size of the horn the driver was designed to be with, and that is what controls the vast majority of the directivity. That's why people used to use bullhorns to project their voice in a specific direction without it just diffusing into the open space.

I'm not disagreeing that there is going to be room reflections, just that they are going to be less because you are controlling the direction of the sound much better versus a flat baffled speaker.

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post #278 of 725 Old 04-21-2011, 09:25 AM
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Where is the Danley demo "warehouse" located? I would love/hate having a total tease of a demo.
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post #279 of 725 Old 04-21-2011, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post


That's a pretty big "if". What you're proposing is that you can evenly cover a variable size home theater with sound dropping at the room boundaries to reduce reflections. How exactly do the speakers know that your home theater is 20 feet wide or 30 feet wide? It just knows????

Obviously, the speakers don't know the room size. However, YOU know the pattern of the horn and you select a coverage pattern to fit your room. Then you aim and place the horn to project its coverage at the listening positions. The FR drops radically outside the coverage minimizing sidewall and ceiling reflections. Often, the back wall reflections arrive to late to smear the image. First reflections are far more important.
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post #280 of 725 Old 04-21-2011, 10:31 AM
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JimP, are you refuting first reflection gains from controlled directivity in small rooms? This is the basic premise of Geddes, and I think Danley's, design principles.
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post #281 of 725 Old 04-21-2011, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

When pigs fly.

...and if that's truly the case, what do you do about the people sitting next to the wall. If they're getting direct sound, how are they not getting any reflections off the side wall. While I'm at it, wouldn't the back wall reflect? How can you aim the speakers towards the audiance and not have it reflect off the wall directly behind them?

That is part of the problem with the Danley loudspeakers. They have great pattern control-but if youare out of the pattern-you are out of hte pattern and the sound is greatly reduced.

If you have people sitting next to the wall, that needs to be taken into account with the sound system DESIGN. In that case you place the mains right oup against the wall (they couple GREAT to the wall like this) ahd you will have no reflection from at least that side.

Yes you are still going to have reflections, but when they are greatly reduced, the quality is greatly improved.

You partially avoid the back wall by having the mains up a bit higher an then aiming them down (as is standard in install systems). That way the energy that does hit the back wall is directed down onto the floor and gets absorbed/diffused by the seats in the room.

Again loudspeaker system design 101-maybe you missed that class.

And I never said you won't get reflections-I said they would be greatly reduced.

You don't see me recommending that on these forums, because most people will simply stack the loudspeakers up-which is easier.

When you go to hanging or flying anything, the danger/liability factor goes way up and that sort of work should be done by professionals who know the problems and have the tools to do the job properly.

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post #282 of 725 Old 04-21-2011, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

That's a pretty big "if". What you're proposing is that you can evenly cover a variable size home theater with sound dropping at the room boundaries to reduce reflections. How exactly do the speakers know that your home theater is 20 feet wide or 30 feet wide? It just knows????

It doesn't know, but the sound system designer SHOULD know.

If you look at my posts in which people ask which speaker do I recommend, the FIRST question I ask is about the coverage area (length-width) etc needed.

THEN we start to discuss what would do the job best.

That is why we offer a variety of patterns-and the are true patterns having pattern control much lower in freq than many competitors products-especially those that would be used in a home environment.

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post #283 of 725 Old 04-21-2011, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maintman View Post

Where is the Danley demo "warehouse" located? I would love/hate having a total tease of a demo.

It is at the main Danley office in Gainesville Ga. A little bit outside of Atlanta.

Just give a call to set up an appointment and tell them specifically what you are interested in hearing.


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post #284 of 725 Old 04-21-2011, 11:06 AM
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Jim wrote
When pigs fly.

...and if that's truly the case, what do you do about the people sitting next to the wall. If they're getting direct sound, how are they not getting any reflections off the side wall.

Well keep in mind that these also radiate VERY differently than speakers you are used to.

For example, if you place two normal speakers side by side and play music, you can clearly hear comb filtering as you walk side to side in front. This self interference problem is why the larger a sound system got, the worse it sounds regardless of the individual components.

On the other hand, the Synergy horns are intended to radiate as a single source, radiating a portion of a sphere and on the enclosures that have an angled wall, that wall matches the horn radiation angle internally. The result is two enclosures can be placed side by side with no audible seam .
Page 7 at the bottom here;

http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/pdf/danley_tapped.pdf

That shows the intended result and the upper case showing a more conventional system which produces the interference pattern that reveals the seam to your ears.

Now, many commercial speakers have a trapezoid shaped cabinet but none I know of can array without an audible seam.
The acoustic array ability and wall or boundary position IS TOTALLY unique, NO other speakers I know of can do this. While not an issue in the home, that property can be usable in another way.

An adjacent speaker is an acoustical boundary or mirror, if the speaker does not produce interference with an adjacent speaker, it is acoustically array able AND so a physical boundary providing that mirror image can also be used in place of a speaker.
With that mounting position, there is essentially no wall reflection, the pattern is -6dB at the wall angle and the horn controls the pattern down to a fairly low frequency.
I have used this in a narrow room and it is VASTLY better than any other arrangement I tried.

Yes, the sound bounces off the rear wall as always, it just doesn't bounce or reflect off the near side wall the horizontal pattern eliminates the far side wall reflections for some distance and vertical directivity reduces that off the floor and ceiling. Bottom line here is a VASTLY larger near field in a difficult room.
The only requirement is the boundary and speaker be flat together AND it be one of the models that has a cut angle (like the sh-50, sm-60's etc)

Bill, Mark, thanks for jumping in here, I have had a couple things which have soaked up all my time lately (getting ready for trade show time)

Hi Kutlow
I wish it were easier to predict what a given shape / construction / size room was going to do.
I think the folks who suggest moving them around and measuring, while leading to sweat, also will produce the best result.

Have you tried them on the side walls with opening in the corner end?

If you can some time and are interested, just set up two SH-50's equidistant from your chair (at any distance even a few feet) about ear height and only use a power amp and CD player (an absolute minimal system).

Got a call on the bat phone, have to run.
Best,
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post #285 of 725 Old 04-21-2011, 11:26 AM
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My Danley gear is scheduled to ship tomorrow; the anticipation is brutal here:-)

Larry
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post #286 of 725 Old 04-21-2011, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04FLHRCI View Post

My Danley gear is scheduled to ship tomorrow; the anticipation is brutal here:-)

Larry

Well worth the anticipation! You will be floored, rocked and entranced, once you get them set up.

[Interesting how someone who apparently has not heard the Synergy speakers (and who claims in his custom user title to be mediocre guy) can indulge in a fit of pique over an actual owner's report of their experience. What part of "unique in the market place" is not comprehended?]

I have installed using the "trick" or capability which only array-able designs provide, and to which Tom alluded, of placing the SH50/SM60 with their angled sides flush against the left and right wall, providing NO side wall reflections. I can state from experience (and measurements) that this works very very well! If the back wall is treated (diffusion) and EQ is performed on frequencies below 120Hz, basically the room (assuming wall-to-wall carpeting and overstuffed furniture is present) is under control, with regard to early reflections and room modes.

Another unexpected benefit: the soundstage is perceived to be larger than the width of the room. Usually this is mere hyperbole from high-end reviewers but with Tom's focus on point source coherence and pattern control in the Synergy design, there is a sound basis (ouch!) for this effect.

If you have the room layout in which this configuration is possible, I strongly urge you to give it a try.

In any case, enjoy what these unique designs can do for your room and your ears!

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post #287 of 725 Old 04-21-2011, 11:51 AM
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I can't wait; I have wanted the SH50 for two years

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Originally Posted by robobob View Post

Well worth the anticipation! You will be floored, rocked and entranced, once you get them setup.

[Interesting how someone who apparently has not heard the Synergy speakers (and who claims in his custom user title to be mediocre guy) can indulge in a fit of pique over an actual owner's report of their experience. What part of "unique in the market place" is not comprehended?]

In an case, enjoy what these unique designs can do for your room and your ears!

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post #288 of 725 Old 04-21-2011, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Beaver View Post

It is at the main Danley office in Gainesville Ga. A little bit outside of Atlanta.

...or about 3 hours from downtown on any given afternoon !
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post #289 of 725 Old 04-21-2011, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Wrager View Post

...or about 3 hours from downtown on any given afternoon !

Now now-it is usually 2 hours at the most (except for those rare occasions in which it is 5 hours). But come during the middle of the day-and it is around an hour-assuming nobody screws up on the interstate.

OF course that depends on where you start.

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post #290 of 725 Old 04-21-2011, 08:44 PM
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Last night I worked untill 2:30 am building my speaker stands for the SH50. I also finished up some speakon cables and have it all going into my closet in the home theater. It will be nice now as I wont be able to hear all the fans. Here are some pictures. The stands look better in person. This is a dedicated theater room however it still has got to look nice. The DANLEY SPEAKERS ARE BEAUTIFUL AND PICTURES DOES NOT DO THEM JUSTICE.













I just built the stand for the SH69 and will paint it tomorrow. I also hooked up the 2 SH50 and watched a little Avatar and listened to some music. What you notice immediately is the mid bass slam. I only have the one Crest 9200 amp right now as Im waiting on my other amps to arrive. I turned the gain knobs down to the 12:00 position and just coasted along. I really love the sound of these speakers. So I was listening with no center channel or no surrounds. Whats noticeable is you dont pick out where the sound is coming from. It actually sounds like its coming from the center of the room. Its going to be a huge improvement over my last set up.

If any of you guys are thinking of trying out the Danley Gear pm me for my dealer contact info. He is a pleasure to work with. He will take time and answer all your question and does not force anything on you.
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post #291 of 725 Old 04-21-2011, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04FLHRCI View Post
My Danley gear is scheduled to ship tomorrow; the anticipation is brutal here:-)

Larry
Congrats Larry. You will love them. What amps are you going to use?
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post #292 of 725 Old 04-21-2011, 09:45 PM
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Rob,

I have the room, the treatments and the desire; this is exactly how I planned my initial configuration. Now, you don't need to further impress upon me how wonderful these units are; i'm having enough difficulty managing as is

Larry

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Originally Posted by robobob View Post
If you have the room layout in which this configuration is possible, I strongly urge you to give it a try.
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post #293 of 725 Old 04-21-2011, 09:49 PM
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The only thing I would change on the Danley gear is the color of the Danley Emblem. It should be black and siver. Can they be ordered in a different color?
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post #294 of 725 Old 04-21-2011, 09:51 PM
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Hi Mark,

I have a rack full of Face Audio amps, and will stick with them for now. The front stage will each have a dedicated F1200TS. Stupid headroom for sure; don't want to hurt the family or the gear so I'll be cautious with the MV

Larry

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Congrats Larry. You will love them. What amps are you going to use?
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post #295 of 725 Old 04-21-2011, 09:57 PM
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Also, are small plaques available for purchase much like the THX and Dolby plaques folks have on display in their HTs?

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The only thing I would change on the Danley gear is the color of the Danley Emblem. It should be black and siver. Can they be ordered in a different color?
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post #296 of 725 Old 04-22-2011, 05:00 AM
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I agree on the emblem comment. Not really suited for the home environment. I'd not use them...of course, not having synergy horns makes that easy.

kutlow, looks like you loose a few inches of screen? Would your room allow for an AT screen? It was a significant improvement to get the center channel up and to the right position. You should strongly consider.

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post #297 of 725 Old 04-22-2011, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony123 View Post

I agree on the emblem comment. Not really suited for the home environment. I'd not use them...of course, not having synergy horns makes that easy.

kutlow, looks like you loose a few inches of screen? Would your room allow for an AT screen? It was a significant improvement to get the center channel up and to the right position. You should strongly consider.

Yes my screen is too big. I knew that going into this upgrade. I will be getting a new screen later. Its just that this upgrade sonsisted of all new speakers (7) and 5 New Crest amps which arnt cheap and a new projector RS40 and a new Marantz AV7005. Then I spent about 500.00 in speakon wiring, 500.00 for the electrician to run 4 dedicated lines. yada yada yada and now im eating my sons school snacks. lol Oh and his allowance is temporary shut off due to the recession. lmao
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post #298 of 725 Old 04-22-2011, 06:52 AM
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The only thing I would change on the Danley gear is the color of the Danley Emblem. It should be black and siver. Can they be ordered in a different color?

That is the biggest complaint we get. The logo.

We went through a lot of decisions, and that is the on that was finally decieded on. For most in the process it was the "lesser of the evils".

The reason for the blue, was it is part of the overall Danley "image", kinda like the orange JBL logo.

You can't order them in a different color (unless we order a large number of them), but you can simply peal it off.

Part of the problem with trying to "badge" a product is how to make it "stand out" and be easily recognized at a reasonable distance. without looking too "forward" or cheap.

We have a good number of people "over seas" that think the logo is no where near large enough.

Here is a photo of a local distributor who did this on his own

http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/danleyport.asp?ID=50

Some put even LARGER logos on the cabinets that take up almost the full grill.

Different people see it different ways.

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post #299 of 725 Old 04-22-2011, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kutlow View Post

Then I spent about 500.00 in speakon wiring, 500.00 for the electrician to run 4 dedicated lines. yada yada yada and now im eating my sons school snacks. lol Oh and his allowance is temporary shut off due to the recession. lmao

It's good to know that you have your priorities straight!

Danley Sound Labs

Physics-not fads
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post #300 of 725 Old 04-22-2011, 07:36 AM
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I think the logo is classy and appropriate for all applications other than "home".

Mark, you can DIY a very nice AT screen for about $300. Read in the Seymourav thread.

The "Twinseltown" Theater
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