Danley SH-50/SH-60 for dedicated Home Theater - Page 25 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #721 of 746 Old 09-29-2014, 03:21 PM
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I like the M2 talk and would love to hear them someday. Errr maybe that's not such a good idea...
Oh crap....guess the 215s are coming up for sale soon
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post #722 of 746 Old 09-29-2014, 04:23 PM
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Well who makes the M2's? Some company called JBL...what the hell do they know about building speakers?
Yea, exactly.

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I like the M2 talk and would love to hear them someday. Errr maybe that's not such a good idea...
No, not a great idea . I would dig up the quotes where you said there's no way you would upgrade to the 215's...
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post #723 of 746 Old 09-29-2014, 05:12 PM
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post #724 of 746 Old 10-04-2014, 05:52 AM
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Rich or not what you described would be good for a drive-in theater. And there would be no need for the BC subs.
That's a great idea! The amount of space needed would be un-obtainable where I live probably. There would have to be no neighboring communities for at least a half a mile in every direction. Those Jericho's REALLY throw the sound.

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post #725 of 746 Old 10-22-2014, 05:02 PM
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Hi, is there any Danley owner here from the UK?
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post #726 of 746 Old 01-15-2015, 07:58 PM
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I am impressed that the thread owner finds he Danleys to sound better than Trio Horns. I have Trios that I purchased recently at a great price new and they sound exceptionally good.

Forum members that have provided negative reviews of the Trio's simply haven't heard them setup right or something... they are among the most amazing speakers I have ever heard. I suspect one reason folks don't like them is that they are so transparent that you are apt to turn the volume up too high. Once you turn them up, you can unknowingly but easily hit the ear's threshold of pain during transients. This is likely to be interpreted as "harshness".

I certainly might like the synergy horns "better" than trios but I would be shocked if they were dramatically better. I LOVE the sound of the trios coupled with a perfectly room optimized DIY 15" x 8 driver subwoofer (4 room corners setup) powered by 10000 watts. My room is diffusion controlled and reasonably bass trapped.

I am planning on buying a Danley SM96 speaker to sit on the floor beneath my theater screen (unfortunately I don't have room behind my screen). I plan on using it as a center between the Avantgarde Trios. The "Avantgarde" Solo center channel that I have for home theater isn't bad but I would like a wider controlled dispersion pattern for my particular room.

Any thoughts on the SM96 and its use with Avantgarde's? I suspect only this thread owner would know...

Blazar!
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post #727 of 746 Old 02-04-2015, 12:57 AM
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My favorite horns for 2-ch, much more than the Trios, are the Tune Audio Anima from Greece, as well as a horn made in Berlin, which was made with JBL for midrange adn Tweeter and 18 inch Allnico woofers. The Animas are there for demos in other countries. Haven't heard the Danleys, so if there is anyone in the UK or Western Europe with a set-up, please let me know and I would like to drop by for a quick listen
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post #728 of 746 Old 08-20-2015, 09:32 PM
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SM60's @ "low-volumes"?

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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
Quote:Originally Posted by tyee 

Hey Gooddoc
What do you hear different between the JTR's and the SM60F? Like I said above I am demoing them next month. I also have a small room. I'm hoping they are very suitable. How about the resolution, same, less, more??

The compression driver on the JTR 212's has a phenomenal amount of detail at lower volumes that is not there with the Danley's. However, as the volume is turned up that advantage disappears and the Danley's actually become more listenable than the 212's, which can sometimes be piercing in comparison. At higher volumes I don't feel the Danley's are lacking in detail or resolution at all.

But one thing the Danley's have going for them is a phenomenally deep and wide soundstage. Not that the 212's don't, it's just that the Danley's are slightly better at it.
Hey @Gooddoc . I know your above post is about a year old and your Danleys are long gone... but I wanted more thoughts about this.

I'm looking to set up a 2-channel "budget-audiophile" system with some SM60Fs on low power (7W!) Single Ended Triode (SET) tube amps. I generally listen to music at pretty low volumes, and the Danley's are ridiculously efficient @100db /W.

But, I know that some speakers really need some power to "turn on" and come alive. As the SM60F's are really PA speakers (unlike the Studio60's, should they ever come out), I'm concerned that they'll never feel at home in a music scenario. (However, SET amps tend to sound more full at these low volumes, which may offset?)

I've got no idea - and can't find anyone who's tried. So, any thoughts/input would be appreciated!
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post #729 of 746 Old 08-20-2015, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ferenc_k View Post
Quote:Originally Posted by carlm9

The source is a Bryston BDP-1 Linux USB player, DAC/DSP/amp is the French Devialet D-Premier (240W, ADH =Analog/Digital Hybrid, a 3W Class A amp drives four Class D modules in per L/R channel, plus few other patented, clever tricks).

I tried the SM60/TH Mini with a 20W Class A triode tube amp (Ear-Yoshino V20) and with a car battery driven 10W Altmann amp as well, with very good result too, using the same XTZ DSP sub amp. Very, very enjoyable, punching way above its price, mainly with the completely car battery and computer based setup.
The Bryston BDP-1/Devialet/SM60/TH Mini it could be compared to any system for practically any price - at least with my taste and preferences

All in all, I am very satisfied with the SM60 and the TH Mini.

Hey @ferenc_k - just saw this post you made! I'm a fan of 2-ch Horn systems, and was looking to do something similar to this... power some SM60's with a 7W SET amp. Seems like I could get a lot of audiophile-bang for the buck.

Do you feel it got to moderate listening levels for a small room? Do you feel the SM60f will keep up with the 'usual suspects' of so-called audiophile horn systems (Avantguard Trios, aCappellas, etc...)?

I hit RMAF every year (it's in my back yard) love how those systems sound (as well as a good electrostat when done right), but can't fit those speakers in my budget - or room! Thx.
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post #730 of 746 Old 08-21-2015, 05:30 PM
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Hey @Gooddoc . I know your above post is about a year old and your Danleys are long gone... but I wanted more thoughts about this.

I'm looking to set up a 2-channel "budget-audiophile" system with some SM60Fs on low power (7W!) Single Ended Triode (SET) tube amps. I generally listen to music at pretty low volumes, and the Danley's are ridiculously efficient @100db /W.

But, I know that some speakers really need some power to "turn on" and come alive. As the SM60F's are really PA speakers (unlike the Studio60's, should they ever come out), I'm concerned that they'll never feel at home in a music scenario. (However, SET amps tend to sound more full at these low volumes, which may offset?)

I've got no idea - and can't find anyone who's tried. So, any thoughts/input would be appreciated!
Hard for me to say really. I was powering mine with 2400 watts/channel. But my impression was that they sounded their best at moderate to higher volumes. Typical of most compression driver designs, the detail and clarity is just not the same at lower volumes. The JTR 212's were definitely better. The compression driver on that design is the best I've heard at low volumes with the exception of my JBL M2's.
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post #731 of 746 Old 08-21-2015, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
Hard for me to say really. I was powering mine with 2400 watts/channel. But my impression was that they sounded their best at moderate to higher volumes. Typical of most compression driver designs, the detail and clarity is just not the same at lower volumes. The JTR 212's were definitely better. The compression driver on that design is the best I've heard at low volumes with the exception of my JBL M2's.
And no offense to Danley but they really do need to have a better compression driver for the home theater market IN MY OPINION. I started a post and had Ivan from Danley posting in it where I basically asked for that and there was some discussion but I guess it just isn't a priority for them at the moment. I make these comments from listening to the Danley SH50, which I felt had slightly rolled off highs and wasn't quite as detailed as my JTR 212s. The midbass was better on the Danleys along with a larger soundstage but not enough detail to make me consider switching. I have not heard the SM60F so I can't say how much of my opinion applies. But if Danley ever comes out with a HT specific version with a better CD, I'll be heading down near Atlanta to hear them.

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post #732 of 746 Old 08-21-2015, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
Hard for me to say really. I was powering mine with 2400 watts/channel. But my impression was that they sounded their best at moderate to higher volumes. Typical of most compression driver designs, the detail and clarity is just not the same at lower volumes. The JTR 212's were definitely better. The compression driver on that design is the best I've heard at low volumes with the exception of my JBL M2's.
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And no offense to Danley but they really do need to have a better compression driver for the home theater market IN MY OPINION. I started a post and had Ivan from Danley posting in it where I basically asked for that and there was some discussion but I guess it just isn't a priority for them at the moment. I make these comments from listening to the Danley SH50, which I felt had slightly rolled off highs and wasn't quite as detailed as my JTR 212s. The midbass was better on the Danleys along with a larger soundstage but not enough detail to make me consider switching. I have not heard the SM60F so I can't say how much of my opinion applies. But if Danley ever comes out with a HT specific version with a better CD, I'll be heading down near Atlanta to hear them.
While I believe I understand what you heard and are referring to, there's A LOT more to the top end of a speaker than the brand/type compression driver used. Implementation and design goals is everything, and the SH50 was never designed for a living room. Every pro installation of an SH50 will have EQ available, and the tightest response curve and exact voicing is not the top priority nor reason to use the speaker. While a compression driver can set some outer limits, the horn/waveguide and crossover design are often dramatically more significant contributors so long as there isn't a significant mismatch between driver and horn. The SH50 is optimized for a different application, so expect a little massaging to get the very best balance in a home. There are many tools with different required knowledge and complexity available to do this.
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post #733 of 746 Old 08-21-2015, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
While I believe I understand what you heard and are referring to, there's A LOT more to the top end of a speaker than the brand/type compression driver used. Implementation and design goals is everything, and the SH50 was never designed for a living room. Every pro installation of an SH50 will have EQ available, and the tightest response curve and exact voicing is not the top priority nor reason to use the speaker. While a compression driver can set some outer limits, the horn/waveguide and crossover design are often dramatically more significant contributors so long as there isn't a significant mismatch between driver and horn. The SH50 is optimized for a different application, so expect a little massaging to get the very best balance in a home. There are many tools with different required knowledge and complexity available to do this.
No doubt. There are some, like Geddes, that believe all quality compression drivers have identical - or at least indistinguishable - SQ and that the ENTIRE difference in SQ lies with the horn and implementation. Looking at the research he did to come to that conclusion, and correlating with my own experience, I'm not so sure about that. I think there are innate audible differences in compression drivers. But I also believe that, as you point out Mark, implementation and design goals are by far the largest part of it(SQ) and without that it doesn't matter how good the compression driver is.

But aside from everything else you mentioned, I think the overall design goals of Danley's horns work best in their designed applications, namely large venues. The extremely tight controlled directivity pattern was something I simply, in the end, didn't prefer in my room. Given my experience with the JBL M2, I feel that a well designed wide pattern controlled directivity design is superior for small rooms. But of course opinions will vary.

Edit: And by the way, I've never heard your designs at low volumes, so none of my comments apply to your designs. Low volume listening is typically only possible with the speaker in my own space, demos never seem to be at low volume .
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post #734 of 746 Old 08-21-2015, 10:36 PM
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I had Gedlee Summas and SH50s in my room simultaneously.
The issues with the treble in the SH50 have very little to do with the BMS compression driver, and a lot to do with the fact that there's eight holes in the throat of the horn. (The midrange taps.)

IMHO, Bill Waslo's Synergy Horns sound better than the SH50 in the treble. I believe this is because the midrange taps that Bill uses are smaller.

Look at the measurements; you can see that the treble is affected by the midrange taps.
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post #735 of 746 Old 08-21-2015, 11:03 PM
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I had Gedlee Summas and SH50s in my room simultaneously.
I'd like hear your impressions!
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post #736 of 746 Old 08-22-2015, 09:13 AM
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Here are my impressions http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi...assive-17.html

I also drove them over to Sheldon's house and A/Bd them against lambda Unity horns
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post #737 of 746 Old 08-22-2015, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
While I believe I understand what you heard and are referring to, there's A LOT more to the top end of a speaker than the brand/type compression driver used. Implementation and design goals is everything, and the SH50 was never designed for a living room. Every pro installation of an SH50 will have EQ available, and the tightest response curve and exact voicing is not the top priority nor reason to use the speaker. While a compression driver can set some outer limits, the horn/waveguide and crossover design are often dramatically more significant contributors so long as there isn't a significant mismatch between driver and horn. The SH50 is optimized for a different application, so expect a little massaging to get the very best balance in a home. There are many tools with different required knowledge and complexity available to do this.
You're right, I was meaning a home theater focused design from Danley, which I presume (maybe wrongly) would include a more detailed CD. But as you and Majestik6 point out, there is much more to pleasing sound than a better CD. We know their current design is not meant for smaller, intimate environments so the nuance and detail normally needed for HT weren't on the design sheet. So like I said I think they need a better CD along with a purpose built HT design.

A great speaker designer will get the most from their equipment by optimizing the entire system to work optimally but a lower quality, less detailed CD can only be taken so far. That same talented designer with a better CD will have a much higher ceiling when it comes to the results.

But point taken in I should have focused on design as opposed to one component of the design. I just feel that is the primary thing holding them back, along with a lack of need/desire to focus on a HT specific version of the Synergy Horn.

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post #738 of 746 Old 08-22-2015, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
You're right, I was meaning a home theater focused design from Danley, which I presume (maybe wrongly) would include a more detailed CD. But as you and Majestik6 point out, there is much more to pleasing sound than a better CD. We know their current design is not meant for smaller, intimate environments so the nuance and detail normally needed for HT weren't on the design sheet. So like I said I think they need a better CD along with a purpose built HT design.

A great speaker designer will get the most from their equipment by optimizing the entire system to work optimally but a lower quality, less detailed CD can only be taken so far. That same talented designer with a better CD will have a much higher ceiling when it comes to the results.

But point taken in I should have focused on design as opposed to one component of the design. I just feel that is the primary thing holding them back, along with a lack of need/desire to focus on a HT specific version of the Synergy Horn.
Glad you are getting where I'm going... You gave a listen in one system and made an observation that the upper frequencies were too recessed and not detailed enough for your taste and compared to others you listened to. That's entirely valid. To have any confidence that the quality of the tweeter was the culprit was a huge leap, more of a guess, and in fact contrary to the type of details you claimed you would like to see changed. Observations and impressions are always useful as added data points, but enthusiasts always get themselves into trouble when they make strong assertions of what actually caused what they heard or what would fix the problem. It's a bit like someone hearing a massive 24" woofer dropped in a modest size room where it happened to not have much punch/impact and had gobs of bottom end. Of course the answer is that's just too big a woofer for that size room. A 15" would sound much better... right?
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post #739 of 746 Old 08-22-2015, 01:00 PM
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It's a bit like someone hearing a massive 24" woofer dropped in a modest size room where it happened to not have much punch/impact and had gobs of bottom end. Of course the answer is that's just too big a woofer for that size room. A 15" would sound much better... right?
I'm sure you meant a pair of 15s right.

And we may get to test that assumption at some point. I've been talking to a guy that is building a tiny house, 8.5'x30', and he wants to put a 24 in there. A little overkill but considering he doesn't plan to live in the tiny house for more than a few years, he wants to buy his equipment for the future. Should be pretty phenomenal, over the top, yes, but definitely good. And none of us on AVS are exactly sane when it comes to this stuff.

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post #740 of 746 Old 08-23-2015, 01:29 AM
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Could a different crossover for the SH50 make the 50 sound a lot better for HT rooms?

Only curious. I was just thinking that the parts used in a SH50 are fine but if there was a different goal in mind then that would be better for HT. Maybe a separate power input for the HT Xo if this was a dual purpose SH50. Anyways not suggesting they would do this but if I had some SH's already I would definitely try and see if have a dual Xo would be possible.

Just my 2cents.
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post #741 of 746 Old 08-23-2015, 08:42 AM
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Could a different crossover for the SH50 make the 50 sound a lot better for HT rooms?

Only curious. I was just thinking that the parts used in a SH50 are fine but if there was a different goal in mind then that would be better for HT. Maybe a separate power input for the HT Xo if this was a dual purpose SH50. Anyways not suggesting they would do this but if I had some SH's already I would definitely try and see if have a dual Xo would be possible.

Just my 2cents.
Going active is the solution, but the problem is getting it right and better than the passive crossover. I'm sure Tom would be willing to assist, I remember seeing posts by him about this. Of course cost then becomes an issue.
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post #742 of 746 Old 08-23-2015, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post
Could a different crossover for the SH50 make the 50 sound a lot better for HT rooms?

Only curious. I was just thinking that the parts used in a SH50 are fine but if there was a different goal in mind then that would be better for HT. Maybe a separate power input for the HT Xo if this was a dual purpose SH50. Anyways not suggesting they would do this but if I had some SH's already I would definitely try and see if have a dual Xo would be possible.
I've been thinking about this same thing; it's part of the reason I'd like to explore using a DEQX unit on a Danley. The DEQX doesn't just correct Freq & Phase response... it also can allow for a tri-amp'ed system - with internal digital crossovers and 3 independent stereo outputs for hi, low, & mid.

My only concern for this (other than 3x the cost of the amps!) would be that both the SH50 & SM60f are 3-way system, but still need a good sub. (requiring quad-amping) So, my thoughts were to drive both components of the CD thru the Danley crossover on the High channel, the the 8" woofers with no passive crossover on their own amp (mid-channel), then a separate sub on it's own (low-channel).

Maybe overkill to force an SM60f to be more high-fidelity than it was designed for?
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post #743 of 746 Old 08-23-2015, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by majestik6 View Post
Here are my impressions http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi...assive-17.html

I also drove them over to Sheldon's house and A/Bd them against lambda Unity horns
I must be skimming that thread too fast, because I'm not finding any listening impressions, just some comparative measurements.
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post #744 of 746 Old Today, 04:57 PM
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This is my first post but let me tell you I've been reading everything I can on the forums for using DSL's SH series speakers for HT. My HT occupies the right 14' of a 19'x13' room. My speakers are separated by 13' and we sit 10' from them. I love everything I hear about the SH60/50's EXCEPT the dispersion, especially when used in such a compact area. Why doesn't anybody talk about the SH69? Laid sideways the dispersion is 2x that of the 50's. I've talked to 3 different people from Danley and while very cordial and willing to help, I get the impression there's no one really able to answer the questions involving a small (home) venue. I thought I was ready to pull the trigger on the SH69, but maybe I should wait to see if DSL will better address the HT market with the ethereal Studio60 or cave and go with JTR.
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post #745 of 746 Old Today, 09:16 PM
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They're not in the HT business beyond selling speakers to folks who make their living providing the info you want, but they do provide all the info you need to figure out what, if any, of their products is suitable for your app.

Unfortunately, when speakers are involved and especially horns, many folks buy based more on looks, size, specs, whatever with little thought to what they really need, then too often don't set them up correctly, so short of a proven setup in a room acoustically very similar to yours, buying prosound gear for acoustically tiny venues at low SPL playback is often no trivial pursuit for a casual DIYer.

Anyway, you're at least thinking on the right track since a typical HT usually requires a 60-90 deg H x 40-60 deg V pattern depending on the LP's width x depth pattern, so try to pick one that doesn't ricochet off the floor, ceiling or side walls until it's behind at least the front row's set of ears and preferably the last row's and if you can't then that's what local boundary damping or diffusors is for .

Beware of ricochets off coffee tables or similar between the speakers, LP unless specifically designed to alter/flatten the lower pattern.

GM

Loud is Beautiful if it's Clean! As always though, the usual disclaimers apply to this post's contents.
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Originally Posted by jpsod View Post
Why doesn't anybody talk about the SH69? Laid sideways the dispersion is 2x that of the 50's. I've talked to 3 different people from Danley and while very cordial and willing to help, I get the impression there's no one really able to answer the questions involving a small (home) venue. I thought I was ready to pull the trigger on the SH69, but maybe I should wait to see if DSL will better address the HT market with the ethereal Studio60 or cave and go with JTR.
I understand the SH69 to sound pretty similar to the SM60... goes a little lower, actually. Lot's of folks use them for their center channel, and put the SM60orSH50 in the *corners* for their mains - which would be kinda tight to not get any wall reflections. It definitely depends on room geometry... they're too big & wide for my room.

There's a nice pair of (white!) SH96's on eBay right now. Good snag, if it works for you... I wish they'd fit in mine.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Danley-SM-96...item3f51e4ef22
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