Danley SH-50/SH-60 for dedicated Home Theater - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 723 Old 03-19-2011, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

Man, I'd love to try out a kit!

I am quite sure that we are not the only ones!

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post #92 of 723 Old 03-20-2011, 10:34 AM
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I love audio just as much as anyone on this forum and I genuinely enjoy the opportunity to listen to such cutting edge speaker designers as Tom explain and rationalize their designs. Would love to own one. But.. I along with many others I cannot quite afford or justify the expense. (and that's a bummer). A kit of some of the more home theater friendly Danley designs (SM60/SM96/SHmini/micro) would be just awesome. It would definitely allow lots of us access to this cutting edge technology and most certainly elevate the industry as a whole.

I genuinely understand that the economics behind the kits may not make a whole lot of sense for Danley. I also understand that synergy horn kits may be a bit too complex for a kit form factor. Lastly the kits would likely cut out the established distribution channels for Danley. But then again... how much of the home theater market are they really capturing anyhow?

One can dream.... and that's what I have to keep doing for now

Allan
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post #93 of 723 Old 03-20-2011, 11:47 AM
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The kit's a great idea for the DIYers, but I don't think the lower cost will sell a whole lot more speakers. A kit would save at most 20-25%, at least going by the Gedlee model. But you're likely still at greater than $4500 a pair for the SM60's. I guess that could make it affordable for some, but it's not like the price will move the speakers into an entirely new market.

I guess what I'm trying to say is if you can afford the kit at that price, buying the assembled speaker is not that far a stretch. Don't get me wrong, it would be a great option, but I see it being more of, "I've decided to get the Danley's, now do I get the assembled speaker or save a few bucks and do it myself."

Just my 2¢

Sorry if I've soured the mood......Kit! Kit! Kit! Kit!
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post #94 of 723 Old 03-20-2011, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

The kit's a great idea for the DIYers, but I don't think the lower cost will sell a whole lot more speakers. A kit would save at most 20-25%, at least going by the Gedlee model. But you're likely still at greater than $4500 a pair for the SM60's. I guess that could make it affordable for some, but it's not like the price will move the speakers into an entirely new market.

I guess what I'm trying to say is if you can afford the kit at that price, buying the assembled speaker is not that far a stretch. Don't get me wrong, it would be a great option, but I see it being more of, "I've decided to get the Danley's, now do I get the assembled speaker or save a few bucks and do it myself."

Just my 2¢

Sorry if I've soured the mood......Kit! Kit! Kit! Kit!

Not that it's an option but it really could be done for much cheaper. A couple of 8s, xover, and a 5" coax. None of that adds up even close to $2,250 per. Danley has acknowledged that they don't use expensive or exotic drivers, it's how they utilize them that is special. They could be considered a bargain by hi fi standards but they have a considerable mark up no doubt about that. That being said I'd still like to hear their designs as I'm impressed with what they did with the DTS 10 and own 2 of those.
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post #95 of 723 Old 03-20-2011, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

Not that it's an option but it really could be done for much cheaper. A couple of 8s, xover, and a 5" coax. None of that adds up even close to $2,250 per. Danley has acknowledged that they don't use expensive or exotic drivers, it's how they utilize them that is special. They could be considered a bargain by hi fi standards but they have a considerable mark up no doubt about that. That being said I'd still like to hear their designs as I'm impressed with what they did with the DTS 10 and own 2 of those.

True, but actual supply costs is not the reason for the mark-up. It's the design of that horn and the specifics of the driver orientation on that horn that is really worth something. To quote Tom Danley, "the SH-50 can reproduce a square wave, not at one frequency but over more than a decade in range, not in one position but anywhere in front, something very few speakers at any cost can do." That's got to be worth something, no? lol
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post #96 of 723 Old 03-20-2011, 01:17 PM
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Using the DTS10 as a "guide", the price was a third to a quarter for that kit. I don't think they made ANY money on those, but they spread an awareness, and they sure didn't loose money from many that were going to buy them at the retail price. It worked more as a way to open up to a market that wouldn't have otherwise owned one. And it was a blessing to us!!!

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post #97 of 723 Old 03-20-2011, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

Not that it's an option but it really could be done for much cheaper. A couple of 8s, xover, and a 5" coax. None of that adds up even close to $2,250 per. Danley has acknowledged that they don't use expensive or exotic drivers, it's how they utilize them that is special. They could be considered a bargain by hi fi standards but they have a considerable mark up no doubt about that. That being said I'd still like to hear their designs as I'm impressed with what they did with the DTS 10 and own 2 of those.

While the drivers are not exotic drivers, they were custom choosen and are pro quality.

A couple of things to consider. The 8"'s that are used are high performance pro neo drivers-not your $20 Parts Express special.

The 5" coax is also a neo and is a professional model-again not your average cheap model. And it is the only one that will fit the horn. The horn was designed around it. The horn is NOT a normal horn by any means. If you look at how the driver loaded the horn you will see.

The horn itself is not like your average cheap plastic horn. It is very thick and very inert-so it doesn't "ring" or have a sound of its own. It took a long time to design and develope it.

The crossover is not your average crossover. It is quite a bit more complex than your average crossover-therefore higher costs.

And of course the cabinet is not MDF, but rather 13 ply baltic birch with rated fly points for hanging.

There is a lot more that goes into the overall cost of a cabinet-besides just the drivers.

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post #98 of 723 Old 03-21-2011, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by TheLion View Post
I have ordered a set of 3 SH-50 for my new frontstage. Finish is black Walnut stain. I will be able to do side-by-side comparisons with my Genelec 1037Cs and Seaton Catalyst. (Actually I will use my Genelecs to complement the Danleys as surround speakers in a 7.1 setup)

Exciting times lie ahead!
I cant wait to hear your feedback as well. I just sold my JTR Triple 12's and am thinking of the SH 50 LF RF and the SH69 center.
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post #99 of 723 Old 03-21-2011, 07:22 PM
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My home theater is 16' w 22'd 9' ceilings. I have 3 DTS 10'S for subs. I have 4 Jtr Triple 8 for side surrounds and rear surrounds. I just sold my JTR Triple 12's That were for LCR duty. What would you recommend for Home Theater Movies? I was thinking of SH 50 for LF RF and something else for the center. Im looking to make this my last upgrade on speakers since it's becomming a money pit.
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post #100 of 723 Old 03-21-2011, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by kutlow View Post
My home theater is 16' w 22'd 9' ceilings. I have 3 DTS 10'S for subs. I have 4 Jtr Triple 8 for side surrounds and rear surrounds. I just sold my JTR Triple 12's That were for LCR duty. What would you recommend for Home Theater Movies? I was thinking of SH 50 for LF RF and something else for the center. Im looking to make this my last upgrade on speakers since it's becomming a money pit.
You may be waiting for advice from the source but in my opinion, there is nothing lacking in the SM60F's for HT duty.

In fact, in a smaller room, the wider pattern of the SM60F over the SH50 may be just the ticket to allow the listening position/sweet spot to be closer to the screen wall than the SH50's might allow.

I doubt that you need the extra SPL of the SH50's to keep up with your DTS-10's! On the other hand, there WILL be more mid-bass power from the SH50's than the SM60F's, the difference that 2 - 12" woofers make over 2 - 8" woofers.

But in your HT room, can you even use the couple of dB extra headroom that the SH50's offer over the SM60F's?

You raised the issue of budget, so I am chiming in, having direct experience with the SM60M and SM60F. The SM60F's as L/R pair in a 14'x17'x9' HT are never taxed to get up to 115 dB, loafing along and laughing at dynamic peaks all day long. The savings and smaller form factor may open up other possibilities in your HT design.

Of course, if overkill is just enough, then the SH50 (L/R) with the new SM96 as center should cure you of upgraditis, permanently!

Hope this helps!

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post #101 of 723 Old 03-31-2011, 10:54 AM
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kutlow,

I'm really excited for your decision in getting a complete Danley surround system consisting of SH50s for LR, SH69 Center, four SH100 for front and rear surrounds, all that in addition to your three DTS10s!! Please remember to post your Danley visit impression here as soon as you can.
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post #102 of 723 Old 03-31-2011, 11:17 AM
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Agreed, really looking forward to hear about your experience at DSL.

There is a growing interest the DSL SH product line for HT use; I will ultimately schedule a visit, but getting away from KC is proving a schedule challenge right now.

Larry
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post #103 of 723 Old 03-31-2011, 02:03 PM
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"Lion" should be receiving his three SH50s soon; I'm sure there will be a surge of interest in Danley "PA" speakers when he and kutlow post their comments!
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post #104 of 723 Old 03-31-2011, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jheyau View Post

"Lion" should be receiving his three SH50s soon; I'm sure there will be a surge of interest in Danley "PA" speakers when he and kutlow post their comments!

I just got home from Visiting Danley Sound Labs. I am working on a write up with my honest opinions. I wanted to get this out for those who read the forums like I do wanting information now.

First off the Staff at Danley treated me and my brother to an amazing 4 hour demo of music audio and movie watching audio. The SH 50 are the best sounding speakers that ive ever heard and make anything else sound like crap! I tell it like it is. The SH 69 for center is truly amazing as well. What I saw and heard today blew our minds. In short my advise to anyone who loves high end audio should visit a dealer for a demo. I went there intrested in the three front soundstage speakers and left wanting to buy all 7! Heres what Im doing.

SH 50 for LF RF
SH 69 for center channel
SH 100 Cinima Version for side surrounds ( SH100 with the cabinet back agled so the speakers points downward for my side surrounds just like the Mini is.)
SH 100 (Regular Cabinet) or the Micro's for rear surrounds.

I currently have the 3 DTS 10'S. I can see me selling those and buying either the TH 221 or the TH 812.

I will write more tomorrow. Good nite to all.
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post #105 of 723 Old 03-31-2011, 09:16 PM
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Kutlow - This is most encouraging.

What mains are you coming from?

Was the SH69 recommended as a center solution by DSL? Just curious why this would be chosen as opposed to a trio of SH50.

Your feedback in conjunction with Lion's will likely push me over the edge; I'm coming from JTR Triple 8s btw...

Larry

Quote:
Originally Posted by kutlow View Post

I just got home from Visiting Danley Sound Labs. I am working on a write up with my honest opinions. I wanted to get this out for those who read the forums like I do wanting information now.

First off the Staff at Danley treated me and my brother to an amazing 4 hour demo of music audio and movie watching audio. The SH 50 are the best sounding speakers that ive ever heard and make anything else sound like crap! I tell it like it is. The SH 69 for center is truly amazing as well. What I saw and heard today blew our minds. In short my advise to anyone who loves high end audio should visit a dealer for a demo. I went there intrested in the three front soundstage speakers and left wanting to buy all 7! Heres what Im doing.

SH 50 for LF RF
SH 69 for center channel
SH 100 Cinima Version for side surrounds ( SH100 with the cabinet back agled so the speakers points downward for my side surrounds just like the Mini is.)
SH 100 (Regular Cabinet) or the Micro's for rear surrounds.

I currently have the 3 DTS 10'S. I can see me selling those and buying either the TH 221 or the TH 812.

I will write more tomorrow. Good nite to all.

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post #106 of 723 Old 03-31-2011, 09:47 PM
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kutlow, Congratulations! I am SO excited for you!!! You wouldn't want to leave your home theater when your Danley system is in place!
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post #107 of 723 Old 03-31-2011, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by jheyau View Post

kutlow, Congratulations! I am SO excited for you!!! You wouldn't want to leave your home theater when your Danley system is in place!

There are certain things in life that when you feel it you will never ever forget it. One is feeling the thrust of f-15 fighters taking off side by side 2 at a time 10 deep. Another if you ever witnessed the Space Shuttle taking off. This demo was amazing. The SH 50 pair without any sub or surround was incredible. Simply put sell whatever you have, work more overtime, collect pop cans do whatever it takes to get Danley in your home.

one little secret ill let out of the bag before I go to sleep. The DTS 10 got walked on so bad that you couldnt hear it with the The Dual SH 50 and SH 69 loafing along! My 3 DTS 10'S shake all the windows in my neighbors home which is a good 150 feet away! What will they think IF I get the TH 221.
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post #108 of 723 Old 03-31-2011, 10:50 PM
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Did I make a mistake ordering 2 x DTS-10's?

Seriously. looks like a serious sub, interesting that it doesn't appear to go all that low in frequency, but with 2 x 21" drivers I am sure in anything but a stadium or large venue, the room effect will be almost unbearable!

Looking forward to the report on your visit to Danley too.

Al
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post #109 of 723 Old 03-31-2011, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Al Sherwood View Post

Did I make a mistake ordering 2 x DTS-10's?

Seriously. looks like a serious sub, interesting that it doesn't appear to go all that low in frequency, but with 2 x 21" drivers I am sure in anything but a stadium or large venue, the room effect will be almost unbearable!

Looking forward to the report on your visit to Danley too.

Going low to 10 HTz is feel only not hearing. The 221 gives you the feel since they are big but they trounce the dts 10 where it counts in the 25-40 level. Not even fair!
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post #110 of 723 Old 04-01-2011, 03:46 AM
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Kutlow,

What is the timeline for the install on the Danleys? I may want to make a trip to
Wetumpka if you are open to demo's. I also have a good handle on REW and EQ via the DCX and BFD unless Danley is going to come and install and eq your system.

Moto
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post #111 of 723 Old 04-01-2011, 04:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kutlow View Post

There are certain things in life that when you feel it you will never ever forget it. One is feeling the thrust of f-15 fighters taking off side by side 2 at a time 10 deep. Another if you ever witnessed the Space Shuttle taking off. This demo was amazing. The SH 50 pair without any sub or surround was incredible. Simply put sell whatever you have, work more overtime, collect pop cans do whatever it takes to get Danley in your home.

kutlow,

Great to see your feedback also from a visit to Danley's demo room!

Did you listen to the SM60's? If so, did you favor the SH50's mainly because they go lower?
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post #112 of 723 Old 04-01-2011, 05:10 AM
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kutlow wrote "......I currently have the 3 DTS 10'S. I can see me selling those and buying either the TH 221 or the TH 812. "

OMG! The nicknames for the TH221 and TH812 are "CineMonster" and "RockMonster" respectively, that say it all!!!!!
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post #113 of 723 Old 04-01-2011, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by 04FLHRCI View Post

Kutlow - This is most encouraging.

What mains are you coming from?

Was the SH69 recommended as a center solution by DSL? Just curious why this would be chosen as opposed to a trio of SH50.

Your feedback in conjunction with Lion's will likely push me over the edge; I'm coming from JTR Triple 8s btw...

Larry

The SH69 is essentially the same thing as the SH50 (with the exception being that the SH50 goes a bit lower due to a larger internal air volume), but with a wider coverage pattern.

When turned on its side the coverage is 90° wide vs 50°.

In some peoples rooms the SH50 would work just fine-but in others it would not be wide enougn. And with the large horn on the SH50 when you are out of the pattern-you are out of the pattern and the sound drops off very rapidly.

While this is a good thing for keeping the energy where it is supposed (and off of the walls and ceiling where you don't want it), it is not so good if people are trying to listen and they are wider than the pattern.

In any sound system design, the FIRST thing to determine is the pattern needed. THEN you look at everything else.

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post #114 of 723 Old 04-01-2011, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Ivan Beaver View Post

In any sound system design, the FIRST thing to determine is the pattern needed. THEN you look at everything else.

How does one determine this angle/pattern from the listening position?

Is there a calculator, method, measuring technique involved?
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post #115 of 723 Old 04-01-2011, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by bodhisafa View Post

How does one determine this angle/pattern from the listening position?

Is there a calculator, method, measuring technique involved?

In a home setup it is real easy.

Just draw a scale (or kinda close) drawing of your room-walls/seating is all that is needed. Then use a protractor to draw loudspeaker coverage angles with the corner where the loudspeaker is.

Or if you want to do it the quick way-use the corner of a piece of paper for a 90° angle and fold it in half for a 45° and guess the rest.

I actually do that on large scale projects as a "starting point".

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post #116 of 723 Old 04-01-2011, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kutlow View Post

This demo was amazing. The SH 50 pair without any sub or surround was incredible.

Mr. Hedden has mentioned previously that an SH50 has as much energy as an 18" sub.

His comment is buried somewhere in the DTS 10 DIY thread.
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post #117 of 723 Old 04-01-2011, 10:37 AM
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Kutlow,

Where did you hear the F -15 side by side 10 deep. Did you feel like Maverick???
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post #118 of 723 Old 04-01-2011, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kutlow View Post

Going low to 10 HTz is feel only not hearing. The 221 gives you the feel since they are big but they trounce the dts 10 where it counts in the 25-40 level. Not even fair!

Sure it does! It's a 500lb., 60"x60"x30" double 21" tapped horn sub! These things possess a 109db sensitivity, and handle 6000 watts program! I suspect it would own any two driver sub product made.

Two of them would make a splendid 10 feet wide, third row riser

Seriously, I too am yearning for the opportunity for a Danley demo at their facility. The Synergy Horns are in my short list for mains. They're a budget buster, however when the stars align, I'm there to audition them. Kutlow, your enthusiastic, yet all too brief review is exciting. We need more than that,...asap I really would like to hear some other items along side of the Synergy Horns, for a solid measure of reference.

Are you going to provide additional details of your visit? If so as much context as possible would be great.


Thanks

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Flat, Deep, Clean, Linear, and Loud
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(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
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post #119 of 723 Old 04-01-2011, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

Sure it does! It's a 500lb., 60"x60"x30" double 21" tapped horn sub! These things possess a 109db sensitivity, and handle 6000 watts program! I suspect it would own any two driver sub product made.

Two of them would make a splendid 10 feet wide, third row riser

Seriously, I too am yearning for the opportunity for a Danley demo at their facility. The Synergy Horns are in my short list for mains. They're a budget buster, however when the stars align, I'm there to audition them. Kutlow, your enthusiastic, yet all too brief review is exciting. We need more than that,...asap I really would like to hear some other items along side of the Synergy Horns, for a solid measure of reference.

Are you going to provide additional details of your visit? If so as much context as possible would be great.


Thanks

yes I will do a more detailed write up. I am busy today shipping my JTR setup to the new buyer.
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post #120 of 723 Old 04-01-2011, 12:44 PM
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