Originally Posted by CruelInventions
What we don't need is anecdotal individual positive experiences which then gets extrapolated and assumed to be applicable to everyone else and if someone claims to have a negative experience, then the fault must then lie at the feet of the disgruntled customer. I think we've seen enough of that with a couple now defunct but once highly praised and vigorously defended companies. Just because some or even many people have had a great experience, doesn't negate the possibility of someone having a bad experience with the same company.
With that said, in this case, I have no concrete opinion as to who is "right" or who is "wrong" in this case. Or at least, who is more right or more wrong. As in many scenarios, probably some of both. It would be a shame if Vapor Audio is getting their reputation tarnished for little or no reason. On the other hand, I see some possibility for legitimate questioning of how this situation was handled.
How the situation was handled is a good place to start.
It started with being told a 3-4 month wait and then waiting 7 months. When the speakers finally arrived the stands came in damaged. Ryan did not acknowledge the issues for a week and ignored issues I had with the ups claiming. He also would not achnowledge the 1.5" tear/gouge that came with the speaker. These speakers were not damaged in shipping as he now claims and the boxes and packing for the speakers were very good. Ryan continued to blame ups for the damaged stands in which he signed a disclaimer for. I called his ups store to find out some details of this suspect transaction and found out that Ryan had lied to me about the transaction between him and ups. I forwarded the details to Ryan about what I knew and he said he would deal with this the next day. A week later he decides to finally email me asking for the UPS status ignoring every email and concern I had prior. I have dealt with this behavior before and things started going down hill fast.
That disclaimer Ryan signed with ups killed the claim according to Nicole who helped Ryan. Ryan would not acknowledge those emails I sent regarding the disclaimer or the defect in the side of the speaker. His whole focus with this matter was filing that claim and he kept coming at me with the claim. Even the voicemail I saved from him has him saying that I just don't want the hassle of filing a ups claim. This was out of my hands and I told him more than once that this was not ups's fault. Ryan completely put the ups issue on my shoulders and not once did he tell me to JUST SHIP THE STANDS BACK TO BE REPLACED and forget about the claiming process. He could have easily called Nicole who he dealt with or Alex and got details like I did but he didn't and had over a week to do so before this went public. I think 10 days had passed. I sent photos to him of the boxes for the stands on July 8th and the shipment came in on June 27th or 28th.
At this point after waiting 7 months for his speakers I was losing my patience and asked him to just pay me back for the stands and we would be done with everything. The stands were $200 each not including the very expensive crossover's that sit in the bottom which were a major concern in shipping again unless properly packed. When the stands broke off the glued on bases, the crossover's became exposed and the wiring that is soldered to crossover's were holding the two pieces together. Ryan ignored the offer which like I said would have resolved all issues. Instead he continued his fight with the claim and put it back on my shoulders. He said he doesn't have a problem building me new stands but wasn't going to forfeit the claim just because I said it wasn't ups's fault. I was just the messanger of what ups was telling me but Ryan didn't care or he would have made that call and fought with them. He would have lost but he could have fought. Either way this was his deal.
I even had ups on there way to pick up the stands the next day or so before knowing all the details and the chances I would be taking with the crossover's possibly suffering damage. These concerns were ignored by Ryan which really irritated the hell out of me. When you see the pics you will be scratching your head in dis belief on why the customer is dealing with this. The stands were only glued together at the base where they broke and there isn't much surface area for the adhesive. Maybe 1" wide on the 4 sides. Just ridiculous that there were zero screws helping hold the two pieces together. Pretty expensive speakers sit on top of these glued together stands.
Moving forward, all of this ended up on Audiogon and that is where the full refund offer finally took place after a heated battle. The full refund offer started out like this below and note that the speakers needed to show up without damage. Ryan just stated earlier that I told him the speakers were damaged in shipping but the offer states ONLY the stands could be damaged and the speakers need to arrive UNDAMAGED. This is a contingency offer that was not looking to good for me. There are no flaws on the back of these speakers either.
On Jul 22, 2012, at 7:10 PM, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Here's how the buy back would work. Because you ordered a customized pair of speakers, there's no way that a full refund can occur. This is what we propose. We will find a buyer for your speakers. We actually already have a customer in Canada who sounds like he might be interested, knowing that he's going to be getting someone else's custom set, so this could take place fairly soon. After he has sent the money for the speakers, we will put that money in escrow, a mutually agreed upon escrow. You will then send us the speakers and stands, and they must be received by us with no damage other than the stand damage. The speakers and crossover components must be undamaged. When we have received the items, the escrow will release the funds to you. Shipping cost to us is at your expense as would be any insurance you wish to take.
Now, here is something else you might consider. Vapor is going to be raising the price of the Cirrus 20% this fall. That means if you decide to just hang on to it for a couple more months, you might be able to sell it on your own and not lose any money.
Of course, if you do want to hang on to them, we'd be happy to discuss repairing the stand for you.
And please understand Paul, that there was no intention of deception in the veneer flaw you saw. Those sheets of veneer are one of a kind. No more exist. You have the last sheets, and stuff like that doesn't come along very often. They're still my personal favorite of all the veneers that have come through here. Every sheet of that veneer had the same flaw in the same spot. It was use that sheet the way it was, or substitute a much less stunning veneer. Ryan put it on the back to hide the flaw, so that you don't see it when it's set up, not to try and pull one over.